EPTOn July 15 2013 19:58 Onegu wrote:
Ok I am sorry here you are correct I read to fast.
Ok I am sorry here you are correct I read to fast.
np. I can't say it never happens to me :D
Newbie Mini Mafia XLIV - Page 61
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
np. I can't say it never happens to me :D | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
On July 15 2013 16:27 Koshi wrote: @Onegu Can you please comment on this post by Chroma? I don't want you to comment solely on Chroma, but give your own opinion on the different parts of it. 1)One of Super or Koshi is scum a) Multiple times Chroma said Super wasn't scum, kirby flip shouldn't affect this. Your opinion? b) Why is it Super or Koshi? What is the connection between us? 2) Koshi's hard defense of Kirby with little reasoning looks like it could be scum trying to get town cred from a town flip. a) Do you agree that superfluou would have been a better lynch over kirby? Why? I think that kirby could have been more useful and easier to read Day 2. 1. I dont understand this, its like saying kirby or chrome is scum. It doesnt make sense find reasons for them being scum and then use votes as iceing on the cake. 2. I will be biased here because I know the flip already so it is hard for me to answer this. I dont think super is scum. You guys hardly ever went off bandwagon. You let hurricane control this, not saying it is 100% your fault as anyone could have spoken up. I feel it is easier for scum to hide in majority lynch as there wont be 3 bandwagons so when all the votes will be on only 2 people scum has good reasons for being on a bandwagon as it is harder to analyse flips because no one will be off a bandwaggon. | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
[QUOTE]On July 15 2013 16:27 Koshi wrote: [QUOTE]On July 15 2013 09:16 Chromatically wrote: ahhhhhhhhhh The case on Kirby was better than the one on Super, Kirby only looked town for the last ~10 minutes. I'll stand by that. One of Super or Koshi is scum. Koshi's hard defense of Kirby with little reasoning looks like it could be scum trying to get town cred from a town flip to me. I'll also look at Nightcat because he didn't care about who was lynched at all.[/QUOTE] @Onegu Can you please comment on this post by Chroma? I don't want you to comment solely on Chroma, but give your own opinion on the different parts of it. 1)One of Super or Koshi is scum a) Multiple times Chroma said Super wasn't scum, kirby flip shouldn't affect this. Your opinion? b) Why is it Super or Koshi? What is the connection between us? 2) Koshi's hard defense of Kirby with little reasoning looks like it could be scum trying to get town cred from a town flip. a) Do you agree that superfluou would have been a better lynch over kirby? Why? I think that kirby could have been more useful and easier to read Day 2.[/QUOTE] 1. I dont understand this, its like saying kirby or chrome is scum. It doesnt make sense find reasons for them being scum and then use votes as iceing on the cake. [QUOTE] You got to know that Chroma was defending Super the whole time, I can quote Chroma a couple times where he says Super is NOT scum. Him suddenly typing that either Super or I might be scum because Jirby flipped town is suspicious because it is illogical as hell to go change on Super. You must know that Chroma had been defending Super 6 hours, he read all Super his logs, he thought all super his actions through, and then when kirby flips town Super is suspicious? That doesn't make sense, you don't think like that. Unless you already know that Super is scum and you are creating a distance? Why did Chroma add that it is Super or Koshi? There is no correlation between me and Super. You can not make this assumption. Why is Chroma saying this? Maybe trying to keep the option "Koshi" open and try to save Super after all? There are more posts like this. Where Chroma made suspicious posts that no townie would do. Like seeing that Superfluous made a case against Xzavier. No Townie here saw that. Nobody saw that case like Chroma saw it. I am not willing to also point that out again. But if you want... The difference between my bad play (tunneling on super and kirby) and Chroma his bad play is that Chroma did silly things that no Townie would do. You disagree? | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
On July 15 2013 20:09 Onegu wrote: 1. I dont understand this, its like saying kirby or chrome is scum. It doesnt make sense find reasons for them being scum and then use votes as iceing on the cake. 2. I will be biased here because I know the flip already so it is hard for me to answer this. I dont think super is scum. You guys hardly ever went off bandwagon. You let hurricane control this, not saying it is 100% your fault as anyone could have spoken up. I feel it is easier for scum to hide in majority lynch as there wont be 3 bandwagons so when all the votes will be on only 2 people scum has good reasons for being on a bandwagon as it is harder to analyse flips because no one will be off a bandwaggon. You got to know that Chroma was defending Super the whole time, I can quote Chroma a couple times where he says Super is NOT scum. Him suddenly typing that either Super or I might be scum because Jirby flipped town is suspicious because it is illogical as hell to go change on Super. You must know that Chroma had been defending Super 6 hours, he read all Super his logs, he thought all super his actions through, and then when kirby flips town Super is suspicious? That doesn't make sense, you don't think like that. Unless you already know that Super is scum and you are creating a distance? Why did Chroma add that it is Super or Koshi? There is no correlation between me and Super. You can not make this assumption. Why is Chroma saying this? Maybe trying to keep the option "Koshi" open and try to save Super after all? There are more posts like this. Where Chroma made suspicious posts that no townie would do. Like seeing that Superfluous made a case against Xzavier. No Townie here saw that. Nobody saw that case like Chroma saw it. I am not willing to also point that out again. But if you want... The difference between my bad play (tunneling super) and Chroma his bad play(tunneling on kirby) is that Chroma did silly things that no Townie would do. You disagree? | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
On July 15 2013 21:14 Koshi wrote: EDITED VERSION OF THE POST ABOVE THIS You got to know that Chroma was defending Super the whole time, I can quote Chroma a couple times where he says Super is NOT scum. Him suddenly typing that either Super or I might be scum because Jirby flipped town is suspicious because it is illogical as hell to go change on Super. You must know that Chroma had been defending Super 6 hours, he read all Super his logs, he thought all super his actions through, and then when kirby flips town Super is suspicious? That doesn't make sense, you don't think like that. Unless you already know that Super is scum and you are creating a distance? Why did Chroma add that it is Super or Koshi? There is no correlation between me and Super. You can not make this assumption. Why is Chroma saying this? Maybe trying to keep the option "Koshi" open and try to save Super after all? There are more posts like this. Where Chroma made suspicious posts that no townie would do. Like seeing that Superfluous made a case against Xzavier. No Townie here saw that. Nobody saw that case like Chroma saw it. I am not willing to also point that out again. But if you want... The difference between my bad play (tunneling super) and Chroma his bad play(tunneling on kirby) is that Chroma did silly things that no Townie would do. You disagree? I dont know why he did this, and he needs to answer. What I am saying is it is the same thing as saying kirby or chrome is scum, neither statement has any foundation. I will go over chromes filter, but while reading the thread I remember agreeing with alot of his points early in the game and most scum arent leading one of the day 1 bandwagons, which made me slightly town on him. I want to say something real fast also, defending someone even if they flip scum is a scumtell, at least that is what happahuli told me in scum QT NMMXLII. | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
Except one thing. @ Chrome I know one of the guides says lists are scummy, but I am really not believing it much, go look at the last 2 NMM games and see who posted the first lists and see what they flipped, both town. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
On July 15 2013 21:28 Onegu wrote: I dont know why he did this, and he needs to answer. What I am saying is it is the same thing as saying kirby or chrome is scum, neither statement has any foundation. I will go over chromes filter, but while reading the thread I remember agreeing with alot of his points early in the game and most scum arent leading one of the day 1 bandwagons, which made me slightly town on him. I want to say something real fast also, defending someone even if they flip scum is a scumtell, at least that is what happahuli told me in scum QT NMMXLII. Chrom said a lot of things that you could agree with, he made me look silly sometimes. But that doesn't mean he isn't scum. You have to look at some of the assumptions he made, the ignoring of the defense Kirby made, the ignoring of the case vs Godart that Kirby made. There is a post where Chroma defends Super by saying that survival is a townplay, and that is a town thing to do when somebody makes a case against you that you defend yourself. It was a really good post by Chroma. But why did Chroma ignore the BIG DEFENSE Kirby made on Chroma his post about Kirby. Chroma gave it not enough attention at all, and it was a really good defense. This is suspicious. There are really multiple things like this. Chroma makes good posts but ignores obvious things that someone like Chroma doesn't do on purpose. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
ffs I make silly mistakes without EDIT. | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
Like: A large amount of Kirby's early posting is talking about Sponge's pregame post and trying to get him to post it. He only starts doing this light pressure AFTER I start it. In no way a scum tell chrome, I am going for hurricanes first post after you does that make me scum? c) lurker listOn July 13 2013 10:13 jrkirby wrote:KoshiXzavierNightcat99Gotardcloud-9These players haven't posted anything/enough in my opinion. It's only been a couple hours, so you might be asleep/ at work. But just a PSA, these are currently "lurkers".This should be pretty obvious, but lurker lists are scummy in general.Everyone knows who hasn't posted. There's no reason to post something like this as town, it's totally useless.Scum sometimes do stuff like this because they really really want to look useful. Scum think that lists like this will look pro town and give them something to post about so that they seem active. Sigh again lists arent a scum tell I dont think. | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
I'm still rereading the thread, so you'll have my actual scumreads before the night end. I have absolutely no idea what your point is with the Xzavier thing. I really don't know how the "Chrom hates lists" thing got started. Posting lists of lurkers is bad because it's really easy to do as scum, but it wasn't a huge point. | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
On July 15 2013 05:31 Chromatically wrote: I have to rewrite this because my computer crashed, so I'm just going to c/p the parts that hz wrote (without the quotes from Super). Original case is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=420227¤tpage=28#549 The Super Case This isn't scummy. I've already talked about this at length, but everyone's first priority is to stay alive. If there was suspicion on me, my first priority is to remove it. Ask yourself: what would you do if you walked into the thread and there was a case on you? You'd defend yourself. ? His reason makes sense. He didn't have time to do anything more than skim, so he called out someone he thought was lurking. Not particularly townie, but not at all scummy. This isn't scummy. Bad reads =/= scum, bad townies make bad reads all of the time. You say there's no town motivation, but there's really no scum motivation. Scum know that they won't get a mislynch on you, so they have no reason to scumread you. I didn't really understand what he was saying in that sentence. This isn't scummy. This is bad reasoning. Bad reasoning often comes from bad town. If anything, this is overzealous scumhunting. This, once again, isn't scummy. If I say that I want a scumread to post more, that does NOT mean that I'm planning on replying to them. All it means is that I want them to post their reads and reasoning more often. I'm probably NOT going to reply to them, most of the time, unless I have something in particular to say. I cannot understand why you think this is bad. Once again, bad logic =/= scum. Why would a scum player say that they were just giving reads in self defense? I'll admit that this is a decent point though. So almost all of hz's case is stuff that isn't scummy. When I look at Super's filter, I see someone who's at least trying to find scum and share their reads freely. This is way more than you can say for Kirby. Agree with these points, I am sure you guys were on town / town wagons. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
On July 15 2013 21:52 Chromatically wrote: The Super/Koshi thing was already explained, it was preliminary feeling right after the flip. Both of them cold be scum, but they're not both scum. So the most likely case is that one of them is scum. I'm still rereading the thread, so you'll have my actual scumreads before the night end. I have absolutely no idea what your point is with the Xzavier thing. I really don't know how the "Chrom hates lists" thing got started. Posting lists of lurkers is bad because it's really easy to do as scum, but it wasn't a huge point. My point is that I can quote 3 people now that say superfluous had NO BASE on why to call Xzavier scum, let alone vote on him. You were the only one who saw that, and even gave 5 reasons why. The worst reasons ever if I may add. It is another case of you seeing things that nobody else sees. But I am going to let everything about Chroma rest for now. I need to read more opinions from other players. If you want, you can still ask me to explain things about you ofcourse Chroma. But I need to take a look at this "counsil". Because as soon as that was formed they added JACK SHIT to why Kirby and Super needed to get lynch, they were actually thinking they were the special ones that could just read opinions and then make the verdict, without giving reasons themselves. Look at Umasi whos gut said super vote. Look at Rainbow whos gut said super vote. Their only input was gut vote for super when they made the holy tribunal. I don't know yet if it is something. But it might have been suspicious. However, I think they did it for good fun. | ||
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
On July 15 2013 09:39 Chromatically wrote: Kirby flipped town. I defended Super primarily to get Kirby lynched. I still think that people were voting him for bad reasons, and the reasons I put up against the case are valid. I'm not saying that he is scum, I haven't even read his filter since the flip. I am saying that it definitely deserves consideration now. This post is very townie. Add into the fact I agree with alot of his actions and thoughts, he is town to me. | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
Chromo without rereading the filter. What is your opinion on the Tribunal and what did they actually added to the discussion? | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
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Onegu
United States9695 Posts
On July 15 2013 22:19 Chromatically wrote: The whole thing was kind of silly, I don't see what they did to help. I don't remember anything really scummy from the "Tribunal" itself. Lets say for a second that super is town, does that change your opinion? | ||
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