EPTPPSL - A Second Look - Page 15
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Oldgrain
Finland165 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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sinigang
360 Posts
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HauntYou
Canada68 Posts
On April 17 2013 12:20 -CheekyDuck- wrote: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + Dox you said you were going to come forward and do the right thing. Many people did. Gus did not steal the money, and was not solely responsible for the claims made in the YYJ post that shut down the event, Yes, while my writing may be over emotional, please allow me some time to put everything together more clearly. and it is my fault that i didn't present the information in an understandable way. but to answer the questions below on what the emails say. David
TL;DR: David reduces his sponsorship due to financial constraints, Gus fails to adapt accordingly. Yes but there are bigger issues, like David freezing the funds requested by Amanda (imaging if Qantas or flight center did that) A debt to a flight agency (if lending a 12k line of credit is normal as stated by amanda, then they can afford to wait) can be put on a payment plan, staff however, and hotel rooms are more of an immediate expense. David did give "recommendations" on who he did and didNOT want at the event. i don't think that is fair to post for obvious reasons. Alex
TL;DR: Alex, as an employee, communicates his current understanding of the situation to the community and does his job. well this was my mistake, Alex should be changed to Josh. but the point is still valid. all problems were communicated with IGN ahead of time, having a stream delayed is expected, running an event with little to no funding was also expected and a non issue. bribing players, replacing players, and breaking contact are a big issue. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zUY1glc.png) Dox This is where things start to get petty...
TL;DR: Dox runs a qualifier later than planned, Gus allows it and proceeds to paints himself into a corner promising flights with money he simply doesn't have. Untrue, he told them no. I was the middle person, i told them no. i pressured Gus into asking IGN, and talked YYJ into really wanting to go, and ask IGN and i talked to DOX to ask IGN. I asked Amanda who is "suppose" to be a travel agent, she said yes, then later said it was too expensive but then told Gus the flights are all booked. Gus said he will try to get YYJ to go, since Dox told him he was going. YYJ + Show Spoiler + That full chatlog shouldn't have been posted. It was personal, ugly and it offered nothing but a glimpse into the former friendship of two individuals. Completely unnecessary. YYJ is doing this because he is offended. I was the one who was also giving YYJ information, information that was misrepresented in the sc2sea post. TL;DR: YYJ is led to believe that he'll be going to the PPSL by Gus, finds out last minute that isn't the case, is understandably upset and comes to a misguided conclusion on how events unfolded. Not if you give your passport last minute. NOV2 and the event is the 9th? CheekyDuck + Show Spoiler + You were involved to the extent that I question your ability to be impartial. The way you hounded Amanda and treated her as guilty before proven innocent was disgusting. You blame:
He gave a big speech the night before, i remember he said something like: I know i put my name over this, and i am getting the credit, but don't worry because if this go bad, i'll also take the blame. And he kept his word imo. I believe he is naive and he made decisions based on peoples word and trusted them. He took things for face value and didn't research into depth (like invoices). but he wasn't this mastermind thief, he wasn't a monster. he was a guy that was Part of running an event, that tore itself apart in the end. and no one remembers day 2, which a lot of people overcame many issues and achieved a quality product. But by keeping quiet, people like Amanda can get away with what they have done and look like an innocent victim. .... i can change the stream cheating to. CheekyDuck (with the time stamps) discussed with Gus (player name censored) (names of players and event organisers) that there is stream cheating against mOOnglaDe and that there should be a rematch. because i have a skype screen shot of that. But who cares about stream cheating, it was an online event, the event for such a decent prize should have been live. even if someone is in the stream, you can't 100% prove anything. but this information was why YYJ was more of a reason not getting flown. And Targa, taking games and not wanting to go, really upset AZK. Sorry, but your formatting is a mess, which makes it really hard to sort out. I'll address them in order. 1) The shortfall in funding is Gus's fault. He was given a certain amount to run the event; he went over it. There is no obligation by IGN as a sponsor to fix his mistakes. Again, David didn't explicitly state that 20k was the target in ther interview; only the contract is proof. Gus knew the schedule of payment. 2) No, that screenshot does not prove that David enjoyed the event. He said good luck and to go out and redeem yourselves. The second screenshot does not prove that David pulled the stream because of SC2Sea. He asked for an explanation. 3) David doesn't reply to Gus as there is serious concern that the money will not go towards expenses. There is no "mysterious" reason, they no longer trusted Gus. 4) Their involvement WAS limited to a stream and funding. What did IGN ultimately provide? A stream and funding. The recordings and emails? Those were initial brainstorming sessions that didn't come to fruition. If anything, Gus was the one who pushed the idea of a Pacific Qualifier. 5) David likely froze the funds because of 3. And whether David gave recommendations on the guest list is irrelevant, I'm questioning why you chose to put his words as false statements, when you can't prove that they were. And I'm not going to address your points about Alex, because as far as I'm concerned, that's not debatable. Dox's blog post also explains and addresses most of the points you've made here against him and YYJ. Now we arrive to the list of accusations. I'll refer to them in the order I numbered them. 1) You already know that the changes were communicated, and a verbal contract is not a formal construct unless agreed upon by both parties. Without a copy of the contract itself stipulating such demands, you don't have the grounds to make such a claim (about big-name casters). 2) No. And your point of Amanda/IGN lying about jail-time has been addressed verbatim hundreds of times already. 3) Is it not Gus's event? Was he not in charge? Or are we blaming another mysterious manager? If there was a significant delay then they should've enforced the contract rather than sitting on their hands. It has everything to do with Gus, because he made the ultimate decision not to honor his commitments. 4) Look at YYJ's facebook chats with Gus. Gus said that YYJ was going, when he hadn't even bought him tickets. And I didn't mention Moonglade at all, I'm referring to Rossi. That much should be obvious, as he was the other person who received a seed. 5) You're really not being clear here. The frozen funds have nothing to do with YYJ's situation, as Gus was not entitled to that money until after the event. And if others were willing to pay for the expense, why blame a shortfall in funds if there was no shortfall? Why not blame time constraints, or the closed booking? Any one of those two explanations on their own would have been reasonable, but you're throwing things on the wall to see if it sticks. 6) Wait, now the managers don't want to pay? And uh. Wow. If anything, you've exposed more of your own misdoings than those of others. Pushing a rematch because a flag on a wiki brought you to the wrong conclusion is not a sufficient excuse for that kind of conduct. The very fact that you were looking for any excuse (including allegations of streamcheating) to hold a rematch is indicative of your intentions. Then let Gus take the blame, because from what you've laid out, there's nothing to indicate he doesn't deserve it. Just because he was willing to be a martyr, it doesn't mean he's a saint. He proved he was incapable of running an event on this scale. You can change it to that if you'd like, at least it'd remove the names. But let's be clear, there was no evidence of streamcheating. Even if YYJ did say something, it still doesn't prove that there was streamcheating. It seems like the first he heard of it was from you anyway. I hope you have had some time to reflect on the fact that your nepotism caused a lot of unnecessary friction and distraction. And now you throw in that YYJ wasn't flown in because of some stupid streamcheating allegations that you originated in order to force a rematch? Hoping that a player you had a personal connection with could get in along with another player who was your friend? Wow. Also, who cares if Targa "upset" AZK by having university commitments, it should not affect their professionalism. You're still presenting the same misconceived, skewed interpretations based on evidence that isn't convincing in the slightest. I hoped that you could provide more conclusive evidence, but it's all still conjecture and assumptions. | ||
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Gofarman
Canada645 Posts
On April 17 2013 13:16 Diamond wrote: This thread is fucking stupid. Here here...! | ||
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-CheekyDuck-
Australia398 Posts
i did hope that people would of come forward. anyway. regardless. the money is also inclusive of all taxes and charges. i will need time to reflect the information more clearly to the true extent in what was taken from the community. it was my fault that this issue was derailed. | ||
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EvanED
United States111 Posts
Point being, I'm probably about as unbiased a source as you could hope for. (I saw Dox's account first, but you have to see one of them first.) Not the most informed by any means, but pretty unbiased nonetheless. (One disclaimer: I didn't look at the posted videos -- it'd have helped if you gave interesting time codes.) I am posting because I like internet arguing. :-) (That's said... half tongue in cheek.) I do find some of what you say compelling, though I don't have the context to appreciate the significance of much of what you say. However, I definitely think you have well overplayed your hand and lost much of your credibility as a result. (Actually I feel a bit like I did during the Elon Musk vs NY Times/Broder Tesla review. Broder's review had a number of problems, but I felt that Musk's analysis left open and raised more questions than it answered once you learned more. I didn't feel that either side was particularly credible in that fight.) Fluffed the numbers, generously rounded up, with a horrible exchange rate that wasn't needed in the first place as the bill was in US. Point (1): the exchange rate. I Googled "historical exchange rate" and the first hit for me is this. According to its data, over the whole of 2011 the highest the rate was ever at was 44.2049, and that was in January. If I exclude January, the highest was 43.8985 and the lowest was at 42.1218. The exchange rate was within 2.5% of 42.85 for February through December. If I ask specifically for the Nov. 3 rate (the date of the email that mentions that figure), Oanda quotes 42.6048, which about one half of one percent lower than the 42.85 rate used.(Technical information: The above numbers are the "bid" price, which Oanda says "more accurately mimics the rate that you would be charged if you were exchanging money". I'll take their word for that, but I also checked the result using the ask price, which raises the quoted exchange rate. However, it only goes up by a hair; for example, the Nov 3 exchange rate becomes 42.8226, which is less than 1/10 of one percent different from 42.85. The 44.2049, 43.8985, and 42.1218 numbers are weekly averages; the Nov 3 numbers are specific to that day.) Second, don't be so sure that just because you're quoted prices in USD you'll pay that; I have heard at least one person complain about buying airline tickets and having to pay currency conversion fees when they "shouldn't" have had to and the prices on the web page were quoted in USD. I don't remember what the scenario is though, so I don't know if it's applicable to this situation. (It may have been buying US a domestic fare with a US credit card but while in a different country? That's just a guess though.) IGN - claimed to cancel stream support because of internet issues, but it was because of Alex Conn (Alex.IGN) informing David Ting on what was posted by Yoon Y J and Derek “Dox” Reball on the website www.sc2sea.com Really?! That's supposed to be evidence that shutting down a stream was done deliberately? CD gave Derek (Dox) Rebell the contact for Alex (Alex.IGN) Conn that he used to help YYJ effectively shut down the PPSL (YYJ/Dox posts are full of lies and twisted truths) + Show Spoiler + [Amanda's] invoice quotes from the start keep increasing Wait, you mean increasing from 657,603 (the Nov 3 email) to 715,878 (the table)? Is that really a wonder? The table lists several more people! The 657,603 email is for 18 people, while there are 21 listed in the table.I have no clue why the new people were added, but it's not like the ticket prices went up. Did the people in the table go to the tournament? Did they have reason to go? Then I don't see what you claim to be improper here. And continue to even when quoting the final price even in the forums http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285511¤tpage=30#596 Um, the price in that post matches the table. In fact, if you look at the outstanding balance, it's 15,000 PHP lower than the table. so are you telling me an agency is going to give a man 12k line of credit, with no credit card, car, and a job that pays at the time 20k a year? with no contract. FWIW, I have total available credit of about $7500 with a little under $30K/year income, and that's all unsecured personal credit. Granted, I didn't get that all at once (that's across two credit cards and a line of credit, and I got the CC with the bulk of that $7500 after a couple years). There are brokerage companies that trust their employees with tens of millions of company dollars. Given those facts, I wouldn't be too surprised if the scenario Amanda describes isn't as unusual as you assume. | ||
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-CheekyDuck-
Australia398 Posts
200 000php then corrects herself to 215 000 Php but as you can see from the receipts she was given 230 000php all these things, add up. its my fault for posting more of her information without actual information. at the time we got an exchange of 43. something. but the bill was in USD put she wanted php. etickets were altered, and fare information removed, if she is a real travel agent, then she would be fined and most likely lose the IATA account, as this is a serious offense. most of what i supplied is her accounting documents. as such i didn't reflect more clearly incoming and outgoing and the time frame she purchased tickets. I hope to address these issues more clearly. | ||
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Bodzilla
Australia472 Posts
On April 17 2013 15:50 iMSundeR wrote: Cheeky, please understand that whether or not you disprove Gus Ledesma as a thief, he still was very poor at managing this entire process, before and after the event. This poor management led to one or two people being out of pocket. Whether or not the money that is out of pocket was 'stolen' by Gus is irrelevant. It's a long time ago. This has happened over a dozen times in South-East Asia eSports alone. This thread has nowhere to go. You need to apologise to Amanda, Rossi and Dox immediately and leave this alone, because there is not one person on the entire internet who is on your side, apart from Gus. But then again, the idiot doesn't have a computer anymore, does he? This by a million. Not only does he speak the truth, he has a fucking awesome mustache. | ||
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17Sphynx17
580 Posts
On April 18 2013 12:04 -CheekyDuck- wrote: + Show Spoiler + she said gus Paid her 200 000php then corrects herself to 215 000 Php but as you can see from the receipts she was given 230 000php all these things, add up. its my fault for posting more of her information without actual information. at the time we got an exchange of 43. something. but the bill was in USD put she wanted php. etickets were altered, and fare information removed, if she is a real travel agent, then she would be fined and most likely lose the IATA account, as this is a serious offense. most of what i supplied is her accounting documents. as such i didn't reflect more clearly incoming and outgoing and the time frame she purchased tickets. I hope to address these issues more clearly. I don't know how you got an unaltered ticket in your mind but here's my experience with working with travel agencies or getting tickets from travel agencies. They don't have the price paid to the airline per ticket on there Cheeky. They never do. Why? Well, isn't it obvious, your agreement for payment to the agency is for X amount per head. Why the hell would they show you a Y amount on the ticket itself? You don't need to know that. The reason you engaged the services of a travel agency is so that you don't have to go through the hassle of booking it yourself, correct? So there is an implied understanding that services will be rendered and of course a fee will be charged. You know, because you keep mentioning alteration of ticket, I had to even cross check a travel agency's booking don or me by a client. It had no price breakdown inside of it, nor was there any indication that a breakdown existed before. That trasnaction is between the airline ad the agency, whatever they put on top of the airlines fares as a service charge is irrelevant. Why? Because they are a company, they are expected to earn something from every official transaction. Unless you are expecting it to be a charity which is not a business. If you were expecting more competitive rates, then isn't it Gus' job to have canvassed first, compared quotes against doing it online by himself or over the phone with the airline directly? I mean, we aren't kids here who don't know a thing about how the world works, but it is already a known fact ( unless that doesn't apply to your experience) that booking by yourself online or over the phone directly with the airline gives you more competitive rates than working with an agency. That is a fact. The access to directly purchase from airlines via internet or phone has caused a lot of travel agencies to have difficulty earning because people don't use them anymore, unless you have connecting flights. So don't argue about whether the agency profitted, they are a third party in this, and Amanda is just an employee with a company. That was due the company, not amanda So show us something relevant with regards to what you claim to be significant inconsistencies and the actual amount that you are saying is inconsistent. Frankly, I was expecting you to already post it today, because if this was really important and you really did come up with "your (flawed) conclusion", you must have organized the numbers at least, even on a piece of paper not just do it all magically in your head. You can't review your head snapshot if you dd it right. Frankly, this thread should really be closed and think the mods are giving you the chance to post your so called revelation but you are actually putting it off for one reason or another. I rest my case until you post something relevant or the mods close this mess of a thread | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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