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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On March 31 2013 12:11 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 12:09 cLutZ wrote: I feel like NA varus play is not at EU level. Both these last 2 games both Varus's looked like shit.
Edit Also: Vi is not OP, so shes a target ban now IMO, like vs. Clakey You're right, EU #1 varus ult misses. I've never seen ults misses like Varus ult misses. Even Ashe Arrows land more than Varus ults. Let's be fair there's a massive scream when varus uses his ult so missing becomes even more embarrassing.
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United States23745 Posts
On March 31 2013 12:09 Jaksiel wrote:Sure, but I was mainly finding it interesting that CLG is under .500 but have beaten the number 1 team twice. (Also, I only remembered one CLG loss to Curse. I guess this was the last time they play in the regular season, then.) One of those losses was when Curse tried to cheese them with AP Trynd (with a poor team build around it). I mean a loss is a loss but Curse is still a better team despite them going even for the season.
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On March 31 2013 12:01 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 12:00 Artok wrote:On March 31 2013 11:18 wei2coolman wrote: HSGG so funny "individually aren't that strong"
LOL
HOTSHOT, SAYING THAT. LOL. worked out fine, didnt it? That's implying that it wasn't for the fact that Link and DL didn't just completely carry. plus you telling me you'd take HSGG over voyboy? CLG lost to Curse twice as well. I would take an actually good top laner, just having fun with random drama, that's all the na scene is good for ;O
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On March 31 2013 12:14 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 12:09 Jaksiel wrote:On March 31 2013 12:01 wei2coolman wrote: CLG lost to Curse twice as well. Sure, but I was mainly finding it interesting that CLG is under .500 but have beaten the number 1 team twice. (Also, I only remembered one CLG loss to Curse. I guess this was the last time they play in the regular season, then.) One of those losses was when Curse tried to cheese them with AP Trynd (with a poor team build around it). I mean a loss is a loss but Curse is still a better team despite them going even for the season.
Definitely not trying to imply that this win and the one earlier in the season makes CLG better than Curse. Hell, I'm a long-time CLG fan who is pretty disillusioned with them right now.
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On March 31 2013 12:09 Jaksiel wrote:Sure, but I was mainly finding it interesting that CLG is under .500 but have beaten the number 1 team twice. (Also, I only remembered one CLG loss to Curse. I guess this was the last time they play in the regular season, then.) It's actually worse in EU LCS, Giants beat GG twice and the diference is much bigger.
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Damn, I just looked at the remaining weeks, and Dig's matches are gonna be much harder than Curse (CLG, TSM, GGU mostly, while Curse has compLexity, GGU and Marn in most of them). Looking bad. Is only Dig beat Curse, that'd be 16-4 to 12-4, now instead it's 15-5 to 13-3, that difference is so huge. I don't see Curse dropping 2 of their remaining matches so it'll be pivotal for Dig to beat them in their remaining encounter.
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On March 31 2013 12:20 daSilvaz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 12:09 Jaksiel wrote:On March 31 2013 12:01 wei2coolman wrote: CLG lost to Curse twice as well. Sure, but I was mainly finding it interesting that CLG is under .500 but have beaten the number 1 team twice. (Also, I only remembered one CLG loss to Curse. I guess this was the last time they play in the regular season, then.) It's actually worse in EU LCS, Giants beat GG twice and the diference is much bigger.
Gambit does...try stuff...though in the LCS. Ashe is not a good pick right now...like ever.
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just saw TSM vs Dig. Reginald sucks, lost them the game single handedly (the oddone not being able to smite baron and varus missing his ulties didnz help though). I dont know what this guy is thinking, he initiates every team fight in a terrible way, unbelievable. First team fight he goes in while sona is coming back from clearing wards at baron and varus is oop, second team fights he goes in while varus is way back. Casts his spells, uses zhonyas and after 3 sec he is dead without contributing anything to the fight other than 500 dmg or so.. Jesus christ. If volibear doesnt initiate cause he is not tanky enough then maybe you should wait and make sure that your superfarmed ADC is right behind you -.-
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On March 31 2013 15:54 Djin)ftw( wrote: just saw TSM vs Dig. Reginald sucks, lost them the game single handedly (the oddone not being able to smite baron and varus missing his ulties didnz help though). I dont know what this guy is thinking, he initiates every team fight in a terrible way, unbelievable. First team fight he goes in while sona is coming back from clearing wards at baron and varus is oop, second team fights he goes in while varus is way back. Casts his spells, uses zhonyas and after 3 sec he is dead without contributing anything to the fight other than 500 dmg or so.. Jesus christ. If volibear doesnt initiate cause he is not tanky enough then maybe you should wait and make sure that your superfarmed ADC is right behind you -.- Regi had the only instant initiate that didn't involve flashing and/or hitting a skillshot. Even if his timing was better, it would have been the same result.
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wow i just watched TSM vs DIG, holy shit regi pisses me off sometimes. Hes actually been doing pretty good lately so im surprised he sucked so much this game. HORRIBLE engages, yes i know he was the only hard engage they had, that doesnt mean he should go in and engage! To me, the turning point was the dig baron steal, TSM had that fucking game in the bag and that baron steal turned it all around. Super aggressive regi gave away too many kills for no reason, he failed too hard this game ugh such fucking throws. Wildturtle was so farmed he was putting out insane amounts of damage but horrible positioning and those desperation engages maxe absolutely no use of him. He couldve carried those fights really hard
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On March 31 2013 17:15 HeavenS wrote: wow i just watched TSM vs DIG, holy shit regi pisses me off sometimes. Hes actually been doing pretty good lately so im surprised he sucked so much this game. HORRIBLE engages, yes i know he was the only hard engage they had, that doesnt mean he should go in and engage! To me, the turning point was the dig baron steal, TSM had that fucking game in the bag and that baron steal turned it all around. Super aggressive regi gave away too many kills for no reason, he failed too hard this game ugh such fucking throws. Wildturtle was so farmed he was putting out insane amounts of damage but horrible positioning and those desperation engages maxe absolutely no use of him. He couldve carried those fights really hard The more I think about it, the less of regi's fault i find it. Were engages terrible? yes, there's no doubt. Did TSM have to engage? yes. why? you ask. TSM had advantage, the only way to press advantage is to fight. Dig is a team that knows how to crawl back from disadvantage, if you were watching flow of game, Dig was essentially stalling the game as long as possible. If TSM didn't try to force an engage, Dig, no doubt in my mind would've caught up in gold within 5-10min, and essentially TSM would've lost all that hard earned advantage.
When you have a team comp like TSM's your fighting strength is much stronger in a "counter-initiate" scenario. Essentially TSM's ideal fight is when Dig is diving onto them, this is especially true as to how Diana works (huge aoe interrupt, works best when team is diving on you, rather you diving on them). However, TSM never going to get ideal fight with dig initiating, cuz dig was behind, so they're not gunna try and initiate a fight where they're at a disadvantage.
So yes; regi initiate were not ideal; but the bigger issue was TSM was forced to initiate like so; which is a bigger key problem than the execution of it.
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United States37500 Posts
On March 31 2013 18:09 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 17:15 HeavenS wrote: wow i just watched TSM vs DIG, holy shit regi pisses me off sometimes. Hes actually been doing pretty good lately so im surprised he sucked so much this game. HORRIBLE engages, yes i know he was the only hard engage they had, that doesnt mean he should go in and engage! To me, the turning point was the dig baron steal, TSM had that fucking game in the bag and that baron steal turned it all around. Super aggressive regi gave away too many kills for no reason, he failed too hard this game ugh such fucking throws. Wildturtle was so farmed he was putting out insane amounts of damage but horrible positioning and those desperation engages maxe absolutely no use of him. He couldve carried those fights really hard The more I think about it, the less of regi's fault i find it. Were engages terrible? yes, there's no doubt. Did TSM have to engage? yes. why? you ask. TSM had advantage, the only way to press advantage is to fight. Dig is a team that knows how to crawl back from disadvantage, if you were watching flow of game, Dig was essentially stalling the game as long as possible. If TSM didn't try to force an engage, Dig, no doubt in my mind would've caught up in gold within 5-10min, and essentially TSM would've lost all that hard earned advantage. When you have a team comp like TSM's your fighting strength is much stronger in a "counter-initiate" scenario. Essentially TSM's ideal fight is when Dig is diving onto them, this is especially true as to how Diana works (huge aoe interrupt, works best when team is diving on you, rather you diving on them). However, TSM never going to get ideal fight with dig initiating, cuz dig was behind, so they're not gunna try and initiate a fight where they're at a disadvantage. So yes; regi initiate were not ideal; but the bigger issue was TSM was forced to initiate like so; which is a bigger key problem than the execution of it.
wat wat wat... sometimes I have no idea what you're talking about, wei2cool. -_-
The engages were terribad and guess who it falls on? Regi. When Regi Lunar Rushes in (@ 6:57:36 on VOD), friggin' WildTurtle isn't even on the screen. By the time Turtle makes it to the screen to Chain and auto, Regi is dead, OddOne is trying to kill KiWiKiD (not to mention way too low to peel for Turtle by then), and Dyrus is on the verge of dying. Gold was only 1K in favor of TSM, not sure where you're getting the idea that TSM had to engage. Turtle was 100 CS ahead of qtpie at 36 minutes. He had core of IE, PD, LW done. TSM should not have fought any fight without Turtle there.
And this was only the first Regi dive. There's at least one more when he jumps the gun and TSM gets wiped.
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On March 31 2013 12:30 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 12:20 daSilvaz wrote:On March 31 2013 12:09 Jaksiel wrote:On March 31 2013 12:01 wei2coolman wrote: CLG lost to Curse twice as well. Sure, but I was mainly finding it interesting that CLG is under .500 but have beaten the number 1 team twice. (Also, I only remembered one CLG loss to Curse. I guess this was the last time they play in the regular season, then.) It's actually worse in EU LCS, Giants beat GG twice and the diference is much bigger. Gambit does...try stuff...though in the LCS. Ashe is not a good pick right now...like ever. Really? Gambit didnt try much and just played standard vs Giants with very comfortable picks for them, maybe except for Janna. It was rather the other way around, Giants won because Gambit played so standard and it was easy to counter them.
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The engage initiate was bad; yes. There's no doubt, the fight could have started better off for TSM's initiate. But the bigger issue is that TSM had to create a fight, more-so than the actual botching of the fight.
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United States37500 Posts
On March 31 2013 19:21 wei2coolman wrote: The engage initiate was bad; yes. There's no doubt, the fight could have started better off for TSM's initiate. But the bigger issue is that TSM had to create a fight, more-so than the actual botching of the fight.
Why exactly do you have this impression that TSM had to make a fight?
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So, I watched both of the CLG games and wonder if anyone can confirm that Doublelift ran life steal quints and if so, what red ones he ran to complement them (AD for last hitting / ArPen for killing in lane)?
Genereally speaking, I'm pretty satisfied by CLG's performance. The game against TSM they had it under control imo, until they derped hard, TSM got the baron and snowballed from there. In the curse game, I loved how Chauster tactically sacrificed himself to keep Twitch safe by blocking the Curse back line's path via Cataclysm. He also felt somewhat behind and still made the best out of it. Also, this was the first game I really noticed Aprhomoo landing some clutch ults on Doublelift as Lulu.
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Regi just have one of the worst decision making I've seen out of all pro mids. Even in TSM vs CLG, at one point he is pushing top and engage on nasus under tower, while most of the CLG team is at their base. He doesn't how or when to engage it's really ridiculous. If they wanted to engage with Diana they should have learn from aAa and pick Kayle and shen for shield and invulnerability. Engaging then using zhonya is like saying ok I engage now fight 4vs5.
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On March 31 2013 18:09 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 17:15 HeavenS wrote: wow i just watched TSM vs DIG, holy shit regi pisses me off sometimes. Hes actually been doing pretty good lately so im surprised he sucked so much this game. HORRIBLE engages, yes i know he was the only hard engage they had, that doesnt mean he should go in and engage! To me, the turning point was the dig baron steal, TSM had that fucking game in the bag and that baron steal turned it all around. Super aggressive regi gave away too many kills for no reason, he failed too hard this game ugh such fucking throws. Wildturtle was so farmed he was putting out insane amounts of damage but horrible positioning and those desperation engages maxe absolutely no use of him. He couldve carried those fights really hard The more I think about it, the less of regi's fault i find it. Were engages terrible? yes, there's no doubt. Did TSM have to engage? yes. why? you ask. TSM had advantage, the only way to press advantage is to fight. Dig is a team that knows how to crawl back from disadvantage, if you were watching flow of game, Dig was essentially stalling the game as long as possible. If TSM didn't try to force an engage, Dig, no doubt in my mind would've caught up in gold within 5-10min, and essentially TSM would've lost all that hard earned advantage. When you have a team comp like TSM's your fighting strength is much stronger in a "counter-initiate" scenario. Essentially TSM's ideal fight is when Dig is diving onto them, this is especially true as to how Diana works (huge aoe interrupt, works best when team is diving on you, rather you diving on them). However, TSM never going to get ideal fight with dig initiating, cuz dig was behind, so they're not gunna try and initiate a fight where they're at a disadvantage. So yes; regi initiate were not ideal; but the bigger issue was TSM was forced to initiate like so; which is a bigger key problem than the execution of it.
I guess i understand you POV that TSM should've pressed their advantage but i disagree that initiating those fights was the best way to do it. Like i said before the Baron steal turned it around and gave dig pushing potential. However once Baron wore off TSM could've FORCED dig to engage on them over objectives, much like they did during the baron steal. Either you ENGAGE us, or you lose this objective. Also, Diana does not have to dive in all by herself.....watch the fights again man, she went in WAY too early and she didnt have to at all. Dyrus could've also engaged with his ult, or voli (yes i know he was squishy) but losing diana first hurt them alot more than losing volibear wouldve. I feel like they couldve easily won their teamfights if they all just focused on peeling for turtle, its not like renek was unkillable but apparently killing qtpie was more important for some reason. When your adc is more fed than their adc, protecting your adc usually yields better results than diving the opponents. Thats just my opinion though.
EDIT: I also remember at one point Regi engaged HARD on guess who? THRESH!! He engages THRESH in tsm jungle right above red, and forced his entire team to go in on that fight for nooooooooo reason. Why the fuck would u engage on thresh?? Yea, they went 4 for 1 that fight in dignitas favor. At that point, i knew tsm lost. That decision made me cringe. Some bronze level shit yo, no exaggeration.
On March 31 2013 18:56 NeoIllusions wrote:wat wat wat... sometimes I have no idea what you're talking about, wei2cool. -_- The engages were terribad and guess who it falls on? Regi. When Regi Lunar Rushes in (@ 6:57:36 on VOD), friggin' WildTurtle isn't even on the screen. By the time Turtle makes it to the screen to Chain and auto, Regi is dead, OddOne is trying to kill KiWiKiD (not to mention way too low to peel for Turtle by then), and Dyrus is on the verge of dying. Gold was only 1K in favor of TSM, not sure where you're getting the idea that TSM had to engage. Turtle was 100 CS ahead of qtpie at 36 minutes. He had core of IE, PD, LW done. TSM should not have fought any fight without Turtle there. And this was only the first Regi dive. There's at least one more when he jumps the gun and TSM gets wiped.
Holy terrible quality batman. 240p? all i saw was pixel on pixel action lol
http://www.twitch.tv/riotgames/b/384439870?t=6h57m
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On March 31 2013 19:24 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 19:21 wei2coolman wrote: The engage initiate was bad; yes. There's no doubt, the fight could have started better off for TSM's initiate. But the bigger issue is that TSM had to create a fight, more-so than the actual botching of the fight. Why exactly do you have this impression that TSM had to make a fight?
I thought TSM was behind despite the gold lead. I'm not certain who's late game comp was stronger but I felt DIG had more pressure overall from Thresh's hooks. In addition, OddOne was way too behind and Regi, as shotcaller, never seemed to realize it.
In fact, I've found a general pattern that whenever TSM loses, it's because they never give time for Oddone to get some farm.
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