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We are giving 1 mana to Join Forces. With Prome we argued and we think it might be better if we use 1 mana to play something else (Grim Lavamancer for instance). We'll do that later anyways, don't want to waste Mire to get a color mana we won't need.
##Tap Mountain: Pay 1 for Join Forces
/G
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I just have one thing to say:
Marv, S&B, you guys see "too obvious" to be scum, and Prome agrees. That's how your play is at the moment.
I'll go more in depth tomorrow, don't want to overflow the thread with stuff right now, better have people chime in with the iGrok stuff (and maybe something else)
/G
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EBWOP:
*are "too obvious" to be scum
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EBWOP: Shameless copy from marv
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wut
also i will tap my forest to play wild growth on my savannah then i will tap that to put two mana into the other thing
also also arguing about how much gonzaw et al is/are posting is stupid. it's like you've never played a game with him before. i used to rage at him too but now i kind of just let the waves of posting wash over me. it makes deep analysis of the game pretty much impossible though, so you either have to filter specific people or else you have to just kind of play on general impressions. but with someone posting that much you can't try and read the whole game.
it's just kind of his/their thing. i really wish they would not do it but ive pretty much given up, what are you gonna do.
reads time: bin on fire is probably town because he feels town to me right now (lol)
no but seriously
bin on fire is probably town because of how he's being helpful and promoting discussion and shit.
scumreads are tough but right now i'm pointing at whatever the acro hydra is. i really don't like how he was all "you gotta give me your power or else think i'm scum", forcing people into shitty dichotomies is not a good way to go about being townie. also how he's been running for mayor while refusing to acknowledge that he was running for mayor until we made him.
okay bedtime -snb
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I'm going to respond to the various comments/attacks on me in order (I've spoilered the quotes). Let me know if I missed you or something.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 29 2013 21:14 BinOnFire wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 21:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
Well the point of my policy is to find the lowest poster and DISCUSS whether we hit him or not.
The lowest poster thing is not objective, town can make quality posts and scum can make quantity posts. So we go up the line and find the scummiest person, using Lowest post count as a guideline rather than our 'feel' Well Crossfire's entrance is similar to marvs, I think this is weird though I only think a few mana total should be used on it because I don't think it is wise to discard so many cards because that's wasteful. And then he never mentions that again, even though I feel that its a good point if a bit vague, which means that he shouldve discussed it. I get generally noobness feel from him, not alignment indicative though
I didn't elaborate on that because I thought I explained everything concisely. Basically, it doesn't seem like a good idea to get rid of a dozen cards so early in the game, which is why i wanted to only draw a few cards, so we don't have to discard many if any.
+ Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 00:30 Clockwork Hydra wrote:-snipped- For the record, Marv is also forbidden from playing the noobie card. I was waiting for Xfire to respond, but the conversation died. I discussed it with Dandel in our tête-a-tête. There are three problems with Xfire's post. Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 13:55 Crossfire99 wrote:
Hi guys. Just so you know I'm a magic noob. I was supposed to hydra with Risen, but he dropped out and took all the magic knowledge with him lol. I'll try to do my best, but I'll probably still be dumb, therefore, feel free to correct me when I make mistakes because I know I will. A)This is apologetic and defensive. I know Xfire is not too bad of a mafia player (Dandel played with him in WLIIA and I observed Parallel Universes), so this is an a priori cop-out for doing anything useful this game. There is no town reason for pre-excusing yourself for fucking up. Show nested quote +
As for this whole Mind Glow issue. I only think a few mana total should be used on it because I don't think it is wise to discard so many cards because that's wasteful. I also don't think I would contribute mana to it because it seems like a big goal of using it is so Bin can get that Voyage card, which if I understand correctly won't help me at all. Risen seems to have had a fondness for non basic lands (all of my basic lands are already in play lol).
B)So the next thing he does after saying he knows nothing about magic, is dive into a magic discussion. Regardless of whether he's wrong or right + Show Spoiler +
100% wrong. Pulling up a killer hand is absolutely worth discarding 3/4 of your deck (as long as there's no mill deck). There's a reason Demonic Consultation is restricted in Vintage and that exiles your cards, rather than putting them in the GY.
, the ONE thing he picks out from the thread is a discussion about something he just said he knows nothing about. But the worst part is the last bit: Show nested quote +
Oh, also can anyone that played in the first MTG Mafia summarize any hugely important things from it? Basically, I'm trying to think what is better, everyone attacking 1 person or everyone slowly whittling down everyone else, so they'll be easier to kill later. Typing that out makes me think that attacking 1 person is best because it will be as close to a normal lynch as possible, but I'm not sure with all this magic stuff, so I'm asking.
C)1. Can some over-eager townie please do all the hard work for me, by giving me a cliffnotes version of a long and complicated game? PS. All the time you spend summarizing that game for my lazy ass, you're not scumhunting, so doublescore one for me! 2. More MTG discussion, but this time with extra wishy wash! For the record: we focus down people. Why make it easier for the mafia creature to kill people? That is one of the mistakes made in the first game, which you would know if you had read it... like everybody has been telling you to. D)The entire post is completely useless. It contributes nothing, yet tries to sound as if he is actually contributing, with a "novel" point on the use of Minds Aglow and a pointless question about policy. If this post didn't put you on instant red alert, your scumdar needs fixing.
A) I'm a noob when it comes to magic. I said that in thread so all of you know that I probably will be wrong at points in the game because I've only played 1 game of magic like 6 years ago and my friend was pretty much just telling me what to do. I was apologetic and defensive because I was having trouble following the discussion in thread and took me awhile to understand it. Should I have been falsely confident in my magic understanding and look like a fool when I say something retarded?
B) I signed up for a MTG Mafia game, so I'm going to try and understand the magic part of it, so I can contribute. That is what I did there. I tried to contribute with my understanding at the time. Do you just want me to not try to understand the magic part at all and give opinions on it that mean nothing because I just made it up or do you want me to try to play the game?
C) 1. This is the sequel to a heavily themed game. It is a good idea to learn from the past game, so we don't repeat past mistakes. I didn't (and still don't) have time to read the first MTG Mafia, so I asked about it in thread. The fact that you think that this is scummy is mindboggling. It's just terrible scumhunting.
2. Sorry, but I don't have all the time in the world to read a previous MTG Mafia game which would be very hard for me to follow not really knowing about magic and all (hint that's why said what I said earlier). I think it is better for me to use my limited time to follow this game and play this game, not the previous one.
D) The entire thread up until that point must have been useless then because most of it was about the previous game, people saying how much they do or do not understand mafia, policy discussion, and the whole Minds Aglow issue. Did you just want me to ignore the entire thread when I entered?
+ Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 00:50 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Oh, and I forgot to mention that the rest of his posts are not much better. I'm Acro, btw. Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 14:20 Crossfire99 wrote:On January 29 2013 08:53 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Also, if someone even dares to play a 0/X creature with no abilities, then I'll seriously have to consider "policy lynching" you
Why 0/X creatures suck:
If you are scum, then it means that you have 1 blockable and basically indestructible monster. Thus, town have to spend more effort/time to kill you, thus you survive longer
If you are town, then it means that maybe a random scum won't attack you directly that easy....maybe?
If you are town, try to establish your innocence (preferably following the commandments above). If you do, then no townie should attack you AT ALL the whole game. If scum want to attack you, they have to FoS you first. If they do it badly the rest of town will fuck him up, so don't worry, don't be afraid and put a 0/X beast just to "defend" yourself.
If you do however, we also can't know if you are mafia or not, since 0/X creatures are good for mafia as well. So you basically confuse the hell out of town, and maybe even convince town to kill you
If you have a 0/X beast to play, please tell us first, and most importantly tell us why you are playing it, so we don't try to "policy kill" you.
I'll heavily consider killing anybody that doesn't follow this.
I also don't see many downsides to stating to the thread what you are playing before you do (if it's something unblockable, etc), so consider doing that.
For instance:
I'm playing BlooodStained Mire, a land card right now
Has no effect at all for now (I'm not activating it until I consult with Prom)I don't like this post by Gonzaw (?) because he's saying people shouldn't defend themselves. This is like a townie who is getting lynched and not fighting it. You have to fight the lynch to save yourself and help town in the process. In this game, a lynch is like everyone attacking someone, so I think people should play their decks to the best of their ability and when we find scum, we all attack him because I doubt scum can withstand 7v1. I mean if scum can withstand that, how is this game balanced lol? I might chalk this up to a lack of game knowledge, but this is a pretty serious misrepresentation of what Gonzaw said. He didn't say you can't block. He said that if you're wasting mana on shitty chump blockers instead of doing something useful with it (like contributing to a Minds Aglow, for instance), he considers policy lynching you. We need to grow town players to a point where we can fight back. Not play shitty chump blockers that serve no purpose beyond delaying your death (and cannot stop the mafia beast). Not to say that if you have a shitty chump blocker that you played for its useful side effect (mogg fanatic or so), that you can't use it to chump block if someone decides to attack you. The no-blocker policy is unenforceable anyway. In general townies should always favour attacking over blocking, but I can definitely agree with a townie defending against some giant beast with some chump, rather than doing 1 measly damage themselves (unless that 1 damage is enough to kill scum). /Acro
I wasn't trying to misrepresent what Gonzaw said. I didn't understand his point, but he eventually clarified and I understood. I thought he was saying people shouldn't defend themselves (blocking) against this games version of a lynch (people attacking). See these posts: + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 14:27 Crossfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 14:23 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:On January 29 2013 14:20 Crossfire99 wrote:On January 29 2013 08:53 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Also, if someone even dares to play a 0/X creature with no abilities, then I'll seriously have to consider "policy lynching" you
Why 0/X creatures suck:
If you are scum, then it means that you have 1 blockable and basically indestructible monster. Thus, town have to spend more effort/time to kill you, thus you survive longer
If you are town, then it means that maybe a random scum won't attack you directly that easy....maybe?
If you are town, try to establish your innocence (preferably following the commandments above). If you do, then no townie should attack you AT ALL the whole game. If scum want to attack you, they have to FoS you first. If they do it badly the rest of town will fuck him up, so don't worry, don't be afraid and put a 0/X beast just to "defend" yourself.
If you do however, we also can't know if you are mafia or not, since 0/X creatures are good for mafia as well. So you basically confuse the hell out of town, and maybe even convince town to kill you
If you have a 0/X beast to play, please tell us first, and most importantly tell us why you are playing it, so we don't try to "policy kill" you.
I'll heavily consider killing anybody that doesn't follow this.
I also don't see many downsides to stating to the thread what you are playing before you do (if it's something unblockable, etc), so consider doing that.
For instance:
I'm playing BlooodStained Mire, a land card right now
Has no effect at all for now (I'm not activating it until I consult with Prom)I don't like this post by Gonzaw (?) because he's saying people shouldn't defend themselves. This is like a townie who is getting lynched and not fighting it. You have to fight the lynch to save yourself and help town in the process. In this game, a lynch is like everyone attacking someone, so I think people should play their decks to the best of their ability and when we find scum, we all attack him because I doubt scum can withstand 7v1. I mean if scum can withstand that, how is this game balanced lol? Wut U serious mate? Uh, yeah unless I'm not understanding the magic part correctly. Basically, what you seem to be advocating (feel free to correct me if I misunderstood you) is that people shouldn't play cards which can keep them alive longer. This would be the equivalent of someone fighting to survive a mislynch in a regular game. You don't just want to roll over and die. That only helps scum. On January 29 2013 14:38 Crossfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 14:30 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
If you have the chance to put out a 2/0 creature, or a 0/6 creature (with no abilities either of them), then you put out the 2/0 one out to attack scumreads, use it to town's advantage, "take a stance" on someone, etc. Oh I understand what you mean now. Yeah people should definitely take a stance and attack a scum read if given the chance. I probably won't be as harsh as you in saying that no one should play defensive creatures, but if someone only defends himself and never attacks, that will definitely play an important part in how I view them.
+ Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 04:53 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:I'll add something else about Cross Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 14:20 Crossfire99 wrote:On January 29 2013 08:53 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Also, if someone even dares to play a 0/X creature with no abilities, then I'll seriously have to consider "policy lynching" you
Why 0/X creatures suck:
If you are scum, then it means that you have 1 blockable and basically indestructible monster. Thus, town have to spend more effort/time to kill you, thus you survive longer
If you are town, then it means that maybe a random scum won't attack you directly that easy....maybe?
If you are town, try to establish your innocence (preferably following the commandments above). If you do, then no townie should attack you AT ALL the whole game. If scum want to attack you, they have to FoS you first. If they do it badly the rest of town will fuck him up, so don't worry, don't be afraid and put a 0/X beast just to "defend" yourself.
If you do however, we also can't know if you are mafia or not, since 0/X creatures are good for mafia as well. So you basically confuse the hell out of town, and maybe even convince town to kill you
If you have a 0/X beast to play, please tell us first, and most importantly tell us why you are playing it, so we don't try to "policy kill" you.
I'll heavily consider killing anybody that doesn't follow this.
I also don't see many downsides to stating to the thread what you are playing before you do (if it's something unblockable, etc), so consider doing that.
For instance:
I'm playing BlooodStained Mire, a land card right now
Has no effect at all for now (I'm not activating it until I consult with Prom)I don't like this post by Gonzaw (?) because he's saying people shouldn't defend themselves. This is like a townie who is getting lynched and not fighting it. You have to fight the lynch to save yourself and help town in the process. In this game, a lynch is like everyone attacking someone, so I think people should play their decks to the best of their ability and when we find scum, we all attack him because I doubt scum can withstand 7v1. I mean if scum can withstand that, how is this game balanced lol? I put the "U serious mate?" thing, because it seemed to me he was thinking I was suspicious because of it or something? I mean, that's the feeling I get with "I don't like this post by gonzaw". Generally when you post something like that, it's to express your doubts about someone's alignment, which Cross failed to demonstrate in this post and the following ones. Also this post seemed like filler, or not that thought out. He concludes with stuff like "we should lynch someone by attacking someone, if scum can withhold that then how is the game balanced lol", which to me doesn't have anything to do with the "townies should not put out useless 0/X monsters" idea he was supposedly attacking earlier. It would in fact be the opposite of what I'm saying. If we "policy lynch" people that put out useless 0/X monsters, then scum won't put out 0/X monsters in fear of the policy, thus it'll be easier to attack them or "lynch" them. I don't get the point of this post by Cross, again, it just seems like filler so it appears he's active and discussing stuff. Of course, him asking "simple" questions does not bode well with me, specially if he AFKs later and doesn't contribute anything related to who he might think is scum, etc. /G
Maybe I'm just terrible at explaining my thoughts when they relate to magic but I'll try to explain better what I meant. First, me saying I don't like this post is just me not liking the post. I don't know if it is scummy or not yet, just weird. I said that to make a note of it and see what other people thought. Second, about the whole contradiction, basically I was trying to say that 0/X creatures can defend you from attacks (lynch) and usually lynches are not unanimous. I didn't spell this out in that post and I can see why you were confused, but I was thinking of contested "lynches" when talking about the blocking part (where multiple people are attacked) and thinking of uncontested "lynches" when talking about the 7v1 part. Hope that helps explain what I meant.
Now onto some scum hunting. Let's take a look at Clockwork shall we. Look at the contradiction at how he responds to virtually the same question: + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 00:30 Clockwork Hydra wrote:-snipped- But the worst part is the last bit: Show nested quote +
Oh, also can anyone that played in the first MTG Mafia summarize any hugely important things from it? Basically, I'm trying to think what is better, everyone attacking 1 person or everyone slowly whittling down everyone else, so they'll be easier to kill later. Typing that out makes me think that attacking 1 person is best because it will be as close to a normal lynch as possible, but I'm not sure with all this magic stuff, so I'm asking.
1. Can some over-eager townie please do all the hard work for me, by giving me a cliffnotes version of a long and complicated game? PS. All the time you spend summarizing that game for my lazy ass, you're not scumhunting, so doublescore one for me! 2. More MTG discussion, but this time with extra wishy wash! For the record: we focus down people. Why make it easier for the mafia creature to kill people? That is one of the mistakes made in the first game, which you would know if you had read it... like everybody has been telling you to. The entire post is completely useless. It contributes nothing, yet tries to sound as if he is actually contributing, with a "novel" point on the use of Minds Aglow and a pointless question about policy. If this post didn't put you on instant red alert, your scumdar needs fixing. On January 29 2013 08:59 Clockwork Hydra wrote:-snipped- Show nested quote +
What do you think were the "mistakes" town did in the previous game and the "reason" scum won that game?
Well, you mentioned quite a bit of it. They/you spent a LOT of time bickering about useless stuff (not just setup, but completely pointless stuff about setup) and town didn't play as a team (mainly due to everybody mistrusting each other for stupid shit). This game is fundamentally different from normal mafia games not just in that we kill with magic, but because we don't actually have a town-controlled KP. It is thus twice as important to be an active townie, because we are a town TEAM. We need to work together, because our strength is in numbers. This turn people may be able to play one creature, which is a bit of a wimp. But if next turn we can all attack one player with wimps, that will be a healthy chunk of damage. If everybody goes off attacking their own favourite target without reasoning it out properly (like happened in the first 3 turns or so of the previous game), then we have lots of players at 16 life and one dead townie due to mafia creature. That is pointless, and last game was in fact harmful, because the mafia creature could one-shot people sooner than should have been possible (although mafia derped too when they missed an attack). Yes, they're more elaborate forms of our own policies, with some stuff we forgot about. /Acro
Also, look at this post where they advise caution when powering up a single person + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 09:07 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 08:42 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:On January 29 2013 08:25 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
I know we're all excited to get this started, but can we please get over the trolling phase?
And, honestly, yes, signing IS important. Firstly there are umpteen hydras here and I don't even know which hydra belongs to whom. Secondly, your train of thought should be clear. It's unfair not just to me, but ot others in this game who may not be as familiar with most of you.
Also, assuming the first game did things right is a gross misrepresentation of that game. I read it at the time, and it was a concatenation of mistakes. Partially because people got setup speculation wrong in the beginning, and partially due to just plain bad play.
Scum won that game... and they won for a reason. Lets not repeat it. What trolling phase? Who is trolling right now?What do you think were the "mistakes" town did in the previous game and the "reason" scum won that game? Do you agree with my commandments or not? (short answer please) /GW Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 08:45 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Aperture, will you troll the whole game like this?
If I want I could start fucking you up right now, I even have a card that can do it.
BinOnFire, you there? Wanna post about something? rhetorical questions, already? huh. As for your points, they're fairly straightforward. The thing about #4 (also kinda applies to #5): Sure it's a townies job to establish his townieness - but if everybody did that properly, we wouldn't need any policies in the first place, now. I shall be reluctant to participate in plans when they result in a favorable position of somebody whose alignment I have no clue about. And I advise everybody to use the same caution in regards to this. On the other hand, I won't have any problems cooperating with people whose townieness I am sure of. (or at least if acro is, that's fine too) ~dandel On January 29 2013 11:00 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Okay so here's the thing: We are running Zombie Infestation. (this badboy right here: + Show Spoiler +) For that reason, we would have prefered Minds aglow next turn (and given all 3 mana, too!), but it seems like like it would be more beneficial to town in general this turn, than delaying until next turn  So if it's going to be today, we would REALLY like to cast zombie infestation this turn (instead of contributing mana). And of course still ask everyone else to use as much mana as humanly possible! Not just the lurkers/scum! Everyone! Think of it as a group project! I promise we're not crazy (or scum) ~dandel (with acro's consent)
Lastly, I already showed before how their attack on me was bad and all of this definitely has me thinking Clockwork is the first scum.
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On January 30 2013 04:33 RockHydra wrote:
-snipped-
Regarding Xfire, and what I asked Acro to expand upon
-> If you haven't seen cross' mafia play from Mario mini, consult with Dandel (he co-hosted). I believe I can "feel" his enthusiasm towards this game and based on what I've seen of his scum play, my gut-read is town on him from his opening post alone. Obviously this is a meta read, but his filter is too short to make anything more than that out of it.
-snipped-
I'm going to quote what I send in Parallel World Mafia because the same thing applies here.
On December 13 2012 11:28 Crossfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 11:15 Clarity_nl wrote:
Judging by Mario, crossfire is not scum, or at least not showing it thus far. Oh, how nice of you. Thank you for the vote of confidence. To be completely honest though, most of what happened in Mario was due to two things. 1) That thread was way way way too active for my taste. I absolutely hated it, and would have hated it even if I was town. 2) Real life screwed me over hard during that game. I was away for the first half of day 1 and didn't think it was going to be an issue at all, but was an issue because of the activity level. Additionally, my internet really did crap out on me and make me unable to use the 3 hours I had to planned to devote to that game. I had no idea what to do after that, so i did my random stuff with 1 hr to go before the most hilarious, crazy, and random lynch I have ever been a part of. Anyway that turned out to be way longer than I thought it would be. Whatever. lol
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That took longer than I thought it would lol. I'm going to bed now. Good night.
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Cross, that 1st point doesn't make him mafia at all:
On January 30 2013 14:43 Crossfire99 wrote:Now onto some scum hunting. Let's take a look at Clockwork shall we. Look at the contradiction at how he responds to virtually the same question: + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 00:30 Clockwork Hydra wrote:-snipped- But the worst part is the last bit: Show nested quote +
Oh, also can anyone that played in the first MTG Mafia summarize any hugely important things from it? Basically, I'm trying to think what is better, everyone attacking 1 person or everyone slowly whittling down everyone else, so they'll be easier to kill later. Typing that out makes me think that attacking 1 person is best because it will be as close to a normal lynch as possible, but I'm not sure with all this magic stuff, so I'm asking.
1. Can some over-eager townie please do all the hard work for me, by giving me a cliffnotes version of a long and complicated game? PS. All the time you spend summarizing that game for my lazy ass, you're not scumhunting, so doublescore one for me! 2. More MTG discussion, but this time with extra wishy wash! For the record: we focus down people. Why make it easier for the mafia creature to kill people? That is one of the mistakes made in the first game, which you would know if you had read it... like everybody has been telling you to. The entire post is completely useless. It contributes nothing, yet tries to sound as if he is actually contributing, with a "novel" point on the use of Minds Aglow and a pointless question about policy. If this post didn't put you on instant red alert, your scumdar needs fixing. and this + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 08:59 Clockwork Hydra wrote:-snipped- Show nested quote +
What do you think were the "mistakes" town did in the previous game and the "reason" scum won that game?
Well, you mentioned quite a bit of it. They/you spent a LOT of time bickering about useless stuff (not just setup, but completely pointless stuff about setup) and town didn't play as a team (mainly due to everybody mistrusting each other for stupid shit). This game is fundamentally different from normal mafia games not just in that we kill with magic, but because we don't actually have a town-controlled KP. It is thus twice as important to be an active townie, because we are a town TEAM. We need to work together, because our strength is in numbers. This turn people may be able to play one creature, which is a bit of a wimp. But if next turn we can all attack one player with wimps, that will be a healthy chunk of damage. If everybody goes off attacking their own favourite target without reasoning it out properly (like happened in the first 3 turns or so of the previous game), then we have lots of players at 16 life and one dead townie due to mafia creature. That is pointless, and last game was in fact harmful, because the mafia creature could one-shot people sooner than should have been possible (although mafia derped too when they missed an attack). Yes, they're more elaborate forms of our own policies, with some stuff we forgot about. /Acro . Why is he so upset that I asked that question when before he thought it a completely relevant and important question to spend some time on a serious response? There is no reason for such a disparity in opinion.
I won't tell you why, hopefully you realize why yourself and post it in the thread. I want to see if you are paying attention.
Anyways, this slew of people suddenly attacking CH is...quite interesting to say the least.
/G
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On January 30 2013 09:53 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 09:48 Aperture Science wrote:
I will attack BinOnFire with everything, every turn.
Now you no longer have to worry about me in your attempts to plan out what everyone will play. Or you could attack someone for being scum and play to win?
This post i agree with completely
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##Tap: Forest for Join forces
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On January 30 2013 14:43 Crossfire99 wrote:I'm going to respond to the various comments/attacks on me in order (I've spoilered the quotes). Let me know if I missed you or something. + Show Spoiler +On January 29 2013 21:14 BinOnFire wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 21:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
Well the point of my policy is to find the lowest poster and DISCUSS whether we hit him or not.
The lowest poster thing is not objective, town can make quality posts and scum can make quantity posts. So we go up the line and find the scummiest person, using Lowest post count as a guideline rather than our 'feel' Well Crossfire's entrance is similar to marvs, I think this is weird though I only think a few mana total should be used on it because I don't think it is wise to discard so many cards because that's wasteful. And then he never mentions that again, even though I feel that its a good point if a bit vague, which means that he shouldve discussed it. I get generally noobness feel from him, not alignment indicative though I didn't elaborate on that because I thought I explained everything concisely. Basically, it doesn't seem like a good idea to get rid of a dozen cards so early in the game, which is why i wanted to only draw a few cards, so we don't have to discard many if any. + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 00:30 Clockwork Hydra wrote:-snipped- For the record, Marv is also forbidden from playing the noobie card. I was waiting for Xfire to respond, but the conversation died. I discussed it with Dandel in our tête-a-tête. There are three problems with Xfire's post. Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 13:55 Crossfire99 wrote:
Hi guys. Just so you know I'm a magic noob. I was supposed to hydra with Risen, but he dropped out and took all the magic knowledge with him lol. I'll try to do my best, but I'll probably still be dumb, therefore, feel free to correct me when I make mistakes because I know I will. A)This is apologetic and defensive. I know Xfire is not too bad of a mafia player (Dandel played with him in WLIIA and I observed Parallel Universes), so this is an a priori cop-out for doing anything useful this game. There is no town reason for pre-excusing yourself for fucking up. Show nested quote +
As for this whole Mind Glow issue. I only think a few mana total should be used on it because I don't think it is wise to discard so many cards because that's wasteful. I also don't think I would contribute mana to it because it seems like a big goal of using it is so Bin can get that Voyage card, which if I understand correctly won't help me at all. Risen seems to have had a fondness for non basic lands (all of my basic lands are already in play lol).
B)So the next thing he does after saying he knows nothing about magic, is dive into a magic discussion. Regardless of whether he's wrong or right + Show Spoiler +
100% wrong. Pulling up a killer hand is absolutely worth discarding 3/4 of your deck (as long as there's no mill deck). There's a reason Demonic Consultation is restricted in Vintage and that exiles your cards, rather than putting them in the GY.
, the ONE thing he picks out from the thread is a discussion about something he just said he knows nothing about. But the worst part is the last bit: Show nested quote +
Oh, also can anyone that played in the first MTG Mafia summarize any hugely important things from it? Basically, I'm trying to think what is better, everyone attacking 1 person or everyone slowly whittling down everyone else, so they'll be easier to kill later. Typing that out makes me think that attacking 1 person is best because it will be as close to a normal lynch as possible, but I'm not sure with all this magic stuff, so I'm asking.
C)1. Can some over-eager townie please do all the hard work for me, by giving me a cliffnotes version of a long and complicated game? PS. All the time you spend summarizing that game for my lazy ass, you're not scumhunting, so doublescore one for me! 2. More MTG discussion, but this time with extra wishy wash! For the record: we focus down people. Why make it easier for the mafia creature to kill people? That is one of the mistakes made in the first game, which you would know if you had read it... like everybody has been telling you to. D)The entire post is completely useless. It contributes nothing, yet tries to sound as if he is actually contributing, with a "novel" point on the use of Minds Aglow and a pointless question about policy. If this post didn't put you on instant red alert, your scumdar needs fixing. A) I'm a noob when it comes to magic. I said that in thread so all of you know that I probably will be wrong at points in the game because I've only played 1 game of magic like 6 years ago and my friend was pretty much just telling me what to do. I was apologetic and defensive because I was having trouble following the discussion in thread and took me awhile to understand it. Should I have been falsely confident in my magic understanding and look like a fool when I say something retarded? B) I signed up for a MTG Mafia game, so I'm going to try and understand the magic part of it, so I can contribute. That is what I did there. I tried to contribute with my understanding at the time. Do you just want me to not try to understand the magic part at all and give opinions on it that mean nothing because I just made it up or do you want me to try to play the game? C) 1. This is the sequel to a heavily themed game. It is a good idea to learn from the past game, so we don't repeat past mistakes. I didn't (and still don't) have time to read the first MTG Mafia, so I asked about it in thread. The fact that you think that this is scummy is mindboggling. It's just terrible scumhunting. 2. Sorry, but I don't have all the time in the world to read a previous MTG Mafia game which would be very hard for me to follow not really knowing about magic and all (hint that's why said what I said earlier). I think it is better for me to use my limited time to follow this game and play this game, not the previous one. D) The entire thread up until that point must have been useless then because most of it was about the previous game, people saying how much they do or do not understand mafia, policy discussion, and the whole Minds Aglow issue. Did you just want me to ignore the entire thread when I entered? + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 00:50 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Oh, and I forgot to mention that the rest of his posts are not much better. I'm Acro, btw. Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 14:20 Crossfire99 wrote:On January 29 2013 08:53 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Also, if someone even dares to play a 0/X creature with no abilities, then I'll seriously have to consider "policy lynching" you
Why 0/X creatures suck:
If you are scum, then it means that you have 1 blockable and basically indestructible monster. Thus, town have to spend more effort/time to kill you, thus you survive longer
If you are town, then it means that maybe a random scum won't attack you directly that easy....maybe?
If you are town, try to establish your innocence (preferably following the commandments above). If you do, then no townie should attack you AT ALL the whole game. If scum want to attack you, they have to FoS you first. If they do it badly the rest of town will fuck him up, so don't worry, don't be afraid and put a 0/X beast just to "defend" yourself.
If you do however, we also can't know if you are mafia or not, since 0/X creatures are good for mafia as well. So you basically confuse the hell out of town, and maybe even convince town to kill you
If you have a 0/X beast to play, please tell us first, and most importantly tell us why you are playing it, so we don't try to "policy kill" you.
I'll heavily consider killing anybody that doesn't follow this.
I also don't see many downsides to stating to the thread what you are playing before you do (if it's something unblockable, etc), so consider doing that.
For instance:
I'm playing BlooodStained Mire, a land card right now
Has no effect at all for now (I'm not activating it until I consult with Prom)I don't like this post by Gonzaw (?) because he's saying people shouldn't defend themselves. This is like a townie who is getting lynched and not fighting it. You have to fight the lynch to save yourself and help town in the process. In this game, a lynch is like everyone attacking someone, so I think people should play their decks to the best of their ability and when we find scum, we all attack him because I doubt scum can withstand 7v1. I mean if scum can withstand that, how is this game balanced lol? I might chalk this up to a lack of game knowledge, but this is a pretty serious misrepresentation of what Gonzaw said. He didn't say you can't block. He said that if you're wasting mana on shitty chump blockers instead of doing something useful with it (like contributing to a Minds Aglow, for instance), he considers policy lynching you. We need to grow town players to a point where we can fight back. Not play shitty chump blockers that serve no purpose beyond delaying your death (and cannot stop the mafia beast). Not to say that if you have a shitty chump blocker that you played for its useful side effect (mogg fanatic or so), that you can't use it to chump block if someone decides to attack you. The no-blocker policy is unenforceable anyway. In general townies should always favour attacking over blocking, but I can definitely agree with a townie defending against some giant beast with some chump, rather than doing 1 measly damage themselves (unless that 1 damage is enough to kill scum). /Acro I wasn't trying to misrepresent what Gonzaw said. I didn't understand his point, but he eventually clarified and I understood. I thought he was saying people shouldn't defend themselves (blocking) against this games version of a lynch (people attacking). See these posts: + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 14:27 Crossfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 14:23 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:On January 29 2013 14:20 Crossfire99 wrote:On January 29 2013 08:53 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Also, if someone even dares to play a 0/X creature with no abilities, then I'll seriously have to consider "policy lynching" you
Why 0/X creatures suck:
If you are scum, then it means that you have 1 blockable and basically indestructible monster. Thus, town have to spend more effort/time to kill you, thus you survive longer
If you are town, then it means that maybe a random scum won't attack you directly that easy....maybe?
If you are town, try to establish your innocence (preferably following the commandments above). If you do, then no townie should attack you AT ALL the whole game. If scum want to attack you, they have to FoS you first. If they do it badly the rest of town will fuck him up, so don't worry, don't be afraid and put a 0/X beast just to "defend" yourself.
If you do however, we also can't know if you are mafia or not, since 0/X creatures are good for mafia as well. So you basically confuse the hell out of town, and maybe even convince town to kill you
If you have a 0/X beast to play, please tell us first, and most importantly tell us why you are playing it, so we don't try to "policy kill" you.
I'll heavily consider killing anybody that doesn't follow this.
I also don't see many downsides to stating to the thread what you are playing before you do (if it's something unblockable, etc), so consider doing that.
For instance:
I'm playing BlooodStained Mire, a land card right now
Has no effect at all for now (I'm not activating it until I consult with Prom)I don't like this post by Gonzaw (?) because he's saying people shouldn't defend themselves. This is like a townie who is getting lynched and not fighting it. You have to fight the lynch to save yourself and help town in the process. In this game, a lynch is like everyone attacking someone, so I think people should play their decks to the best of their ability and when we find scum, we all attack him because I doubt scum can withstand 7v1. I mean if scum can withstand that, how is this game balanced lol? Wut U serious mate? Uh, yeah unless I'm not understanding the magic part correctly. Basically, what you seem to be advocating (feel free to correct me if I misunderstood you) is that people shouldn't play cards which can keep them alive longer. This would be the equivalent of someone fighting to survive a mislynch in a regular game. You don't just want to roll over and die. That only helps scum. On January 29 2013 14:38 Crossfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 14:30 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
If you have the chance to put out a 2/0 creature, or a 0/6 creature (with no abilities either of them), then you put out the 2/0 one out to attack scumreads, use it to town's advantage, "take a stance" on someone, etc. Oh I understand what you mean now. Yeah people should definitely take a stance and attack a scum read if given the chance. I probably won't be as harsh as you in saying that no one should play defensive creatures, but if someone only defends himself and never attacks, that will definitely play an important part in how I view them. . + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 04:53 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:I'll add something else about Cross Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 14:20 Crossfire99 wrote:On January 29 2013 08:53 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Also, if someone even dares to play a 0/X creature with no abilities, then I'll seriously have to consider "policy lynching" you
Why 0/X creatures suck:
If you are scum, then it means that you have 1 blockable and basically indestructible monster. Thus, town have to spend more effort/time to kill you, thus you survive longer
If you are town, then it means that maybe a random scum won't attack you directly that easy....maybe?
If you are town, try to establish your innocence (preferably following the commandments above). If you do, then no townie should attack you AT ALL the whole game. If scum want to attack you, they have to FoS you first. If they do it badly the rest of town will fuck him up, so don't worry, don't be afraid and put a 0/X beast just to "defend" yourself.
If you do however, we also can't know if you are mafia or not, since 0/X creatures are good for mafia as well. So you basically confuse the hell out of town, and maybe even convince town to kill you
If you have a 0/X beast to play, please tell us first, and most importantly tell us why you are playing it, so we don't try to "policy kill" you.
I'll heavily consider killing anybody that doesn't follow this.
I also don't see many downsides to stating to the thread what you are playing before you do (if it's something unblockable, etc), so consider doing that.
For instance:
I'm playing BlooodStained Mire, a land card right now
Has no effect at all for now (I'm not activating it until I consult with Prom)I don't like this post by Gonzaw (?) because he's saying people shouldn't defend themselves. This is like a townie who is getting lynched and not fighting it. You have to fight the lynch to save yourself and help town in the process. In this game, a lynch is like everyone attacking someone, so I think people should play their decks to the best of their ability and when we find scum, we all attack him because I doubt scum can withstand 7v1. I mean if scum can withstand that, how is this game balanced lol? I put the "U serious mate?" thing, because it seemed to me he was thinking I was suspicious because of it or something? I mean, that's the feeling I get with "I don't like this post by gonzaw". Generally when you post something like that, it's to express your doubts about someone's alignment, which Cross failed to demonstrate in this post and the following ones. Also this post seemed like filler, or not that thought out. He concludes with stuff like "we should lynch someone by attacking someone, if scum can withhold that then how is the game balanced lol", which to me doesn't have anything to do with the "townies should not put out useless 0/X monsters" idea he was supposedly attacking earlier. It would in fact be the opposite of what I'm saying. If we "policy lynch" people that put out useless 0/X monsters, then scum won't put out 0/X monsters in fear of the policy, thus it'll be easier to attack them or "lynch" them. I don't get the point of this post by Cross, again, it just seems like filler so it appears he's active and discussing stuff. Of course, him asking "simple" questions does not bode well with me, specially if he AFKs later and doesn't contribute anything related to who he might think is scum, etc. /G Maybe I'm just terrible at explaining my thoughts when they relate to magic but I'll try to explain better what I meant. First, me saying I don't like this post is just me not liking the post. I don't know if it is scummy or not yet, just weird. I said that to make a note of it and see what other people thought. Second, about the whole contradiction, basically I was trying to say that 0/X creatures can defend you from attacks (lynch) and usually lynches are not unanimous. I didn't spell this out in that post and I can see why you were confused, but I was thinking of contested "lynches" when talking about the blocking part (where multiple people are attacked) and thinking of uncontested "lynches" when talking about the 7v1 part. Hope that helps explain what I meant.
Now onto some scum hunting. Let's take a look at Clockwork shall we. Look at the contradiction at how he responds to virtually the same question: + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 00:30 Clockwork Hydra wrote:-snipped- But the worst part is the last bit: Show nested quote +
Oh, also can anyone that played in the first MTG Mafia summarize any hugely important things from it? Basically, I'm trying to think what is better, everyone attacking 1 person or everyone slowly whittling down everyone else, so they'll be easier to kill later. Typing that out makes me think that attacking 1 person is best because it will be as close to a normal lynch as possible, but I'm not sure with all this magic stuff, so I'm asking.
1. Can some over-eager townie please do all the hard work for me, by giving me a cliffnotes version of a long and complicated game? PS. All the time you spend summarizing that game for my lazy ass, you're not scumhunting, so doublescore one for me! 2. More MTG discussion, but this time with extra wishy wash! For the record: we focus down people. Why make it easier for the mafia creature to kill people? That is one of the mistakes made in the first game, which you would know if you had read it... like everybody has been telling you to. The entire post is completely useless. It contributes nothing, yet tries to sound as if he is actually contributing, with a "novel" point on the use of Minds Aglow and a pointless question about policy. If this post didn't put you on instant red alert, your scumdar needs fixing. and this + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 08:59 Clockwork Hydra wrote:-snipped- Show nested quote +
What do you think were the "mistakes" town did in the previous game and the "reason" scum won that game?
Well, you mentioned quite a bit of it. They/you spent a LOT of time bickering about useless stuff (not just setup, but completely pointless stuff about setup) and town didn't play as a team (mainly due to everybody mistrusting each other for stupid shit). This game is fundamentally different from normal mafia games not just in that we kill with magic, but because we don't actually have a town-controlled KP. It is thus twice as important to be an active townie, because we are a town TEAM. We need to work together, because our strength is in numbers. This turn people may be able to play one creature, which is a bit of a wimp. But if next turn we can all attack one player with wimps, that will be a healthy chunk of damage. If everybody goes off attacking their own favourite target without reasoning it out properly (like happened in the first 3 turns or so of the previous game), then we have lots of players at 16 life and one dead townie due to mafia creature. That is pointless, and last game was in fact harmful, because the mafia creature could one-shot people sooner than should have been possible (although mafia derped too when they missed an attack). Yes, they're more elaborate forms of our own policies, with some stuff we forgot about. /Acro . Why is he so upset that I asked that question when before he thought it a completely relevant and important question to spend some time on a serious response? There is no reason for such a disparity in opinion. Also, look at this post where they advise caution when powering up a single person + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 09:07 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 08:42 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:On January 29 2013 08:25 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
I know we're all excited to get this started, but can we please get over the trolling phase?
And, honestly, yes, signing IS important. Firstly there are umpteen hydras here and I don't even know which hydra belongs to whom. Secondly, your train of thought should be clear. It's unfair not just to me, but ot others in this game who may not be as familiar with most of you.
Also, assuming the first game did things right is a gross misrepresentation of that game. I read it at the time, and it was a concatenation of mistakes. Partially because people got setup speculation wrong in the beginning, and partially due to just plain bad play.
Scum won that game... and they won for a reason. Lets not repeat it. What trolling phase? Who is trolling right now?What do you think were the "mistakes" town did in the previous game and the "reason" scum won that game? Do you agree with my commandments or not? (short answer please) /GW Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 08:45 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Aperture, will you troll the whole game like this?
If I want I could start fucking you up right now, I even have a card that can do it.
BinOnFire, you there? Wanna post about something? rhetorical questions, already? huh. As for your points, they're fairly straightforward. The thing about #4 (also kinda applies to #5): Sure it's a townies job to establish his townieness - but if everybody did that properly, we wouldn't need any policies in the first place, now. I shall be reluctant to participate in plans when they result in a favorable position of somebody whose alignment I have no clue about. And I advise everybody to use the same caution in regards to this. On the other hand, I won't have any problems cooperating with people whose townieness I am sure of. (or at least if acro is, that's fine too) ~dandel . Then look at how they throw caution to the wind and say everyone trust us and do what's best for us because they would benefit disproportionately from this Minds Aglow play with tons of mana put towards it + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 11:00 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Okay so here's the thing: We are running Zombie Infestation. (this badboy right here: + Show Spoiler +) For that reason, we would have prefered Minds aglow next turn (and given all 3 mana, too!), but it seems like like it would be more beneficial to town in general this turn, than delaying until next turn So if it's going to be today, we would REALLY like to cast zombie infestation this turn (instead of contributing mana). And of course still ask everyone else to use as much mana as humanly possible! Not just the lurkers/scum! Everyone! Think of it as a group project! I promise we're not crazy (or scum) ~dandel (with acro's consent) . I mean it's not even 3 hours into day 1 yet. It would be one thing to just advocate power plays, but the fact they warn against them and say to be really careful, but then instantly say to back theirs is ridiculous. Lastly, I already showed before how their attack on me was bad and all of this definitely has me thinking Clockwork is the first scum.
Im not finding this to be particularly indicative of CH's alignment.
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I find these 2 consecutive "fluffy" posts of Suck and Cross where both come out of seemingly nowhere to then go AFK, both attack CH for (IMO) weak reasons, yet neither of them even mention the other.....weird, and that's an understatement.
/G
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Good morning
Sorry I wasnt around last night. Was out playing bridge like an old lady
Havent read everything yet, but Aperture is sure sounding scummy to me with this post
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389088¤tpage=23#455
so super victimized. I'm not even sure if that many people said he was scum, just that he should stop with the stupid trolling.
You might say it's how he always plays, but if he always plays like an idiot he is only going to learn to improve if he dies early every time.
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On January 30 2013 15:54 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
I find these 2 consecutive "fluffy" posts of Suck and Cross where both come out of seemingly nowhere to then go AFK, both attack CH for (IMO) weak reasons, yet neither of them even mention the other.....weird, and that's an understatement.
/G
This this this this 1000x. Bothers me way more than aperture/igrok and his pms or whatever. Im going to try to get a short analysis of why i find suck to be scummy during work.
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I mean, like it seems "obvious" Crossfire and Suck are the scumteam, doesn't it?
I know I'm jumping to conclusions...but damn that's what my gut is screaming at me.
Before going to bed, I'd like you guys' thoughts on Aperture's "breakdown" from before.
Do you think it's alignment-indicative? Do you think it's genuine/legit? Or maybe it's bullshit?
/G
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I dont think its alignment indicative because rage posts are the fucking easiest things in the world to make. It could be genuine and from scum. And it could be fake and from town.
I think the only suspicious thing about it is the timing. Day 1 is not over and already someone flips out cause too many posts?
Also, it comes at a time where everyone was suspicious about him.
WIFOM incoming.
If I was town and did that, I would probably be apologetic and actually play properly from then. As scum, I might rage.
Personal opinion that shouldnt affect your read on Aperture.
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I also dont think that its alignment indicative, just quite dumb.
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Nova, if you dont want to explain your opinion, please dont post 1 liners like this
On January 30 2013 15:48 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 14:43 Crossfire99 wrote:I'm going to respond to the various comments/attacks on me in order (I've spoilered the quotes). Let me know if I missed you or something. + Show Spoiler +On January 29 2013 21:14 BinOnFire wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 21:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
Well the point of my policy is to find the lowest poster and DISCUSS whether we hit him or not.
The lowest poster thing is not objective, town can make quality posts and scum can make quantity posts. So we go up the line and find the scummiest person, using Lowest post count as a guideline rather than our 'feel' Well Crossfire's entrance is similar to marvs, I think this is weird though I only think a few mana total should be used on it because I don't think it is wise to discard so many cards because that's wasteful. And then he never mentions that again, even though I feel that its a good point if a bit vague, which means that he shouldve discussed it. I get generally noobness feel from him, not alignment indicative though I didn't elaborate on that because I thought I explained everything concisely. Basically, it doesn't seem like a good idea to get rid of a dozen cards so early in the game, which is why i wanted to only draw a few cards, so we don't have to discard many if any. + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 00:30 Clockwork Hydra wrote:-snipped- For the record, Marv is also forbidden from playing the noobie card. I was waiting for Xfire to respond, but the conversation died. I discussed it with Dandel in our tête-a-tête. There are three problems with Xfire's post. Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 13:55 Crossfire99 wrote:
Hi guys. Just so you know I'm a magic noob. I was supposed to hydra with Risen, but he dropped out and took all the magic knowledge with him lol. I'll try to do my best, but I'll probably still be dumb, therefore, feel free to correct me when I make mistakes because I know I will. A)This is apologetic and defensive. I know Xfire is not too bad of a mafia player (Dandel played with him in WLIIA and I observed Parallel Universes), so this is an a priori cop-out for doing anything useful this game. There is no town reason for pre-excusing yourself for fucking up. Show nested quote +
As for this whole Mind Glow issue. I only think a few mana total should be used on it because I don't think it is wise to discard so many cards because that's wasteful. I also don't think I would contribute mana to it because it seems like a big goal of using it is so Bin can get that Voyage card, which if I understand correctly won't help me at all. Risen seems to have had a fondness for non basic lands (all of my basic lands are already in play lol).
B)So the next thing he does after saying he knows nothing about magic, is dive into a magic discussion. Regardless of whether he's wrong or right + Show Spoiler +
100% wrong. Pulling up a killer hand is absolutely worth discarding 3/4 of your deck (as long as there's no mill deck). There's a reason Demonic Consultation is restricted in Vintage and that exiles your cards, rather than putting them in the GY.
, the ONE thing he picks out from the thread is a discussion about something he just said he knows nothing about. But the worst part is the last bit: Show nested quote +
Oh, also can anyone that played in the first MTG Mafia summarize any hugely important things from it? Basically, I'm trying to think what is better, everyone attacking 1 person or everyone slowly whittling down everyone else, so they'll be easier to kill later. Typing that out makes me think that attacking 1 person is best because it will be as close to a normal lynch as possible, but I'm not sure with all this magic stuff, so I'm asking.
C)1. Can some over-eager townie please do all the hard work for me, by giving me a cliffnotes version of a long and complicated game? PS. All the time you spend summarizing that game for my lazy ass, you're not scumhunting, so doublescore one for me! 2. More MTG discussion, but this time with extra wishy wash! For the record: we focus down people. Why make it easier for the mafia creature to kill people? That is one of the mistakes made in the first game, which you would know if you had read it... like everybody has been telling you to. D)The entire post is completely useless. It contributes nothing, yet tries to sound as if he is actually contributing, with a "novel" point on the use of Minds Aglow and a pointless question about policy. If this post didn't put you on instant red alert, your scumdar needs fixing. A) I'm a noob when it comes to magic. I said that in thread so all of you know that I probably will be wrong at points in the game because I've only played 1 game of magic like 6 years ago and my friend was pretty much just telling me what to do. I was apologetic and defensive because I was having trouble following the discussion in thread and took me awhile to understand it. Should I have been falsely confident in my magic understanding and look like a fool when I say something retarded? B) I signed up for a MTG Mafia game, so I'm going to try and understand the magic part of it, so I can contribute. That is what I did there. I tried to contribute with my understanding at the time. Do you just want me to not try to understand the magic part at all and give opinions on it that mean nothing because I just made it up or do you want me to try to play the game? C) 1. This is the sequel to a heavily themed game. It is a good idea to learn from the past game, so we don't repeat past mistakes. I didn't (and still don't) have time to read the first MTG Mafia, so I asked about it in thread. The fact that you think that this is scummy is mindboggling. It's just terrible scumhunting. 2. Sorry, but I don't have all the time in the world to read a previous MTG Mafia game which would be very hard for me to follow not really knowing about magic and all (hint that's why said what I said earlier). I think it is better for me to use my limited time to follow this game and play this game, not the previous one. D) The entire thread up until that point must have been useless then because most of it was about the previous game, people saying how much they do or do not understand mafia, policy discussion, and the whole Minds Aglow issue. Did you just want me to ignore the entire thread when I entered? + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 00:50 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Oh, and I forgot to mention that the rest of his posts are not much better. I'm Acro, btw. Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 14:20 Crossfire99 wrote:On January 29 2013 08:53 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Also, if someone even dares to play a 0/X creature with no abilities, then I'll seriously have to consider "policy lynching" you
Why 0/X creatures suck:
If you are scum, then it means that you have 1 blockable and basically indestructible monster. Thus, town have to spend more effort/time to kill you, thus you survive longer
If you are town, then it means that maybe a random scum won't attack you directly that easy....maybe?
If you are town, try to establish your innocence (preferably following the commandments above). If you do, then no townie should attack you AT ALL the whole game. If scum want to attack you, they have to FoS you first. If they do it badly the rest of town will fuck him up, so don't worry, don't be afraid and put a 0/X beast just to "defend" yourself.
If you do however, we also can't know if you are mafia or not, since 0/X creatures are good for mafia as well. So you basically confuse the hell out of town, and maybe even convince town to kill you
If you have a 0/X beast to play, please tell us first, and most importantly tell us why you are playing it, so we don't try to "policy kill" you.
I'll heavily consider killing anybody that doesn't follow this.
I also don't see many downsides to stating to the thread what you are playing before you do (if it's something unblockable, etc), so consider doing that.
For instance:
I'm playing BlooodStained Mire, a land card right now
Has no effect at all for now (I'm not activating it until I consult with Prom)I don't like this post by Gonzaw (?) because he's saying people shouldn't defend themselves. This is like a townie who is getting lynched and not fighting it. You have to fight the lynch to save yourself and help town in the process. In this game, a lynch is like everyone attacking someone, so I think people should play their decks to the best of their ability and when we find scum, we all attack him because I doubt scum can withstand 7v1. I mean if scum can withstand that, how is this game balanced lol? I might chalk this up to a lack of game knowledge, but this is a pretty serious misrepresentation of what Gonzaw said. He didn't say you can't block. He said that if you're wasting mana on shitty chump blockers instead of doing something useful with it (like contributing to a Minds Aglow, for instance), he considers policy lynching you. We need to grow town players to a point where we can fight back. Not play shitty chump blockers that serve no purpose beyond delaying your death (and cannot stop the mafia beast). Not to say that if you have a shitty chump blocker that you played for its useful side effect (mogg fanatic or so), that you can't use it to chump block if someone decides to attack you. The no-blocker policy is unenforceable anyway. In general townies should always favour attacking over blocking, but I can definitely agree with a townie defending against some giant beast with some chump, rather than doing 1 measly damage themselves (unless that 1 damage is enough to kill scum). /Acro I wasn't trying to misrepresent what Gonzaw said. I didn't understand his point, but he eventually clarified and I understood. I thought he was saying people shouldn't defend themselves (blocking) against this games version of a lynch (people attacking). See these posts: + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 14:27 Crossfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 14:23 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:On January 29 2013 14:20 Crossfire99 wrote:On January 29 2013 08:53 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Also, if someone even dares to play a 0/X creature with no abilities, then I'll seriously have to consider "policy lynching" you
Why 0/X creatures suck:
If you are scum, then it means that you have 1 blockable and basically indestructible monster. Thus, town have to spend more effort/time to kill you, thus you survive longer
If you are town, then it means that maybe a random scum won't attack you directly that easy....maybe?
If you are town, try to establish your innocence (preferably following the commandments above). If you do, then no townie should attack you AT ALL the whole game. If scum want to attack you, they have to FoS you first. If they do it badly the rest of town will fuck him up, so don't worry, don't be afraid and put a 0/X beast just to "defend" yourself.
If you do however, we also can't know if you are mafia or not, since 0/X creatures are good for mafia as well. So you basically confuse the hell out of town, and maybe even convince town to kill you
If you have a 0/X beast to play, please tell us first, and most importantly tell us why you are playing it, so we don't try to "policy kill" you.
I'll heavily consider killing anybody that doesn't follow this.
I also don't see many downsides to stating to the thread what you are playing before you do (if it's something unblockable, etc), so consider doing that.
For instance:
I'm playing BlooodStained Mire, a land card right now
Has no effect at all for now (I'm not activating it until I consult with Prom)I don't like this post by Gonzaw (?) because he's saying people shouldn't defend themselves. This is like a townie who is getting lynched and not fighting it. You have to fight the lynch to save yourself and help town in the process. In this game, a lynch is like everyone attacking someone, so I think people should play their decks to the best of their ability and when we find scum, we all attack him because I doubt scum can withstand 7v1. I mean if scum can withstand that, how is this game balanced lol? Wut U serious mate? Uh, yeah unless I'm not understanding the magic part correctly. Basically, what you seem to be advocating (feel free to correct me if I misunderstood you) is that people shouldn't play cards which can keep them alive longer. This would be the equivalent of someone fighting to survive a mislynch in a regular game. You don't just want to roll over and die. That only helps scum. On January 29 2013 14:38 Crossfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 14:30 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
If you have the chance to put out a 2/0 creature, or a 0/6 creature (with no abilities either of them), then you put out the 2/0 one out to attack scumreads, use it to town's advantage, "take a stance" on someone, etc. Oh I understand what you mean now. Yeah people should definitely take a stance and attack a scum read if given the chance. I probably won't be as harsh as you in saying that no one should play defensive creatures, but if someone only defends himself and never attacks, that will definitely play an important part in how I view them. . + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 04:53 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:I'll add something else about Cross Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 14:20 Crossfire99 wrote:On January 29 2013 08:53 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Also, if someone even dares to play a 0/X creature with no abilities, then I'll seriously have to consider "policy lynching" you
Why 0/X creatures suck:
If you are scum, then it means that you have 1 blockable and basically indestructible monster. Thus, town have to spend more effort/time to kill you, thus you survive longer
If you are town, then it means that maybe a random scum won't attack you directly that easy....maybe?
If you are town, try to establish your innocence (preferably following the commandments above). If you do, then no townie should attack you AT ALL the whole game. If scum want to attack you, they have to FoS you first. If they do it badly the rest of town will fuck him up, so don't worry, don't be afraid and put a 0/X beast just to "defend" yourself.
If you do however, we also can't know if you are mafia or not, since 0/X creatures are good for mafia as well. So you basically confuse the hell out of town, and maybe even convince town to kill you
If you have a 0/X beast to play, please tell us first, and most importantly tell us why you are playing it, so we don't try to "policy kill" you.
I'll heavily consider killing anybody that doesn't follow this.
I also don't see many downsides to stating to the thread what you are playing before you do (if it's something unblockable, etc), so consider doing that.
For instance:
I'm playing BlooodStained Mire, a land card right now
Has no effect at all for now (I'm not activating it until I consult with Prom)I don't like this post by Gonzaw (?) because he's saying people shouldn't defend themselves. This is like a townie who is getting lynched and not fighting it. You have to fight the lynch to save yourself and help town in the process. In this game, a lynch is like everyone attacking someone, so I think people should play their decks to the best of their ability and when we find scum, we all attack him because I doubt scum can withstand 7v1. I mean if scum can withstand that, how is this game balanced lol? I put the "U serious mate?" thing, because it seemed to me he was thinking I was suspicious because of it or something? I mean, that's the feeling I get with "I don't like this post by gonzaw". Generally when you post something like that, it's to express your doubts about someone's alignment, which Cross failed to demonstrate in this post and the following ones. Also this post seemed like filler, or not that thought out. He concludes with stuff like "we should lynch someone by attacking someone, if scum can withhold that then how is the game balanced lol", which to me doesn't have anything to do with the "townies should not put out useless 0/X monsters" idea he was supposedly attacking earlier. It would in fact be the opposite of what I'm saying. If we "policy lynch" people that put out useless 0/X monsters, then scum won't put out 0/X monsters in fear of the policy, thus it'll be easier to attack them or "lynch" them. I don't get the point of this post by Cross, again, it just seems like filler so it appears he's active and discussing stuff. Of course, him asking "simple" questions does not bode well with me, specially if he AFKs later and doesn't contribute anything related to who he might think is scum, etc. /G Maybe I'm just terrible at explaining my thoughts when they relate to magic but I'll try to explain better what I meant. First, me saying I don't like this post is just me not liking the post. I don't know if it is scummy or not yet, just weird. I said that to make a note of it and see what other people thought. Second, about the whole contradiction, basically I was trying to say that 0/X creatures can defend you from attacks (lynch) and usually lynches are not unanimous. I didn't spell this out in that post and I can see why you were confused, but I was thinking of contested "lynches" when talking about the blocking part (where multiple people are attacked) and thinking of uncontested "lynches" when talking about the 7v1 part. Hope that helps explain what I meant.
Now onto some scum hunting. Let's take a look at Clockwork shall we. Look at the contradiction at how he responds to virtually the same question: + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 00:30 Clockwork Hydra wrote:-snipped- But the worst part is the last bit: Show nested quote +
Oh, also can anyone that played in the first MTG Mafia summarize any hugely important things from it? Basically, I'm trying to think what is better, everyone attacking 1 person or everyone slowly whittling down everyone else, so they'll be easier to kill later. Typing that out makes me think that attacking 1 person is best because it will be as close to a normal lynch as possible, but I'm not sure with all this magic stuff, so I'm asking.
1. Can some over-eager townie please do all the hard work for me, by giving me a cliffnotes version of a long and complicated game? PS. All the time you spend summarizing that game for my lazy ass, you're not scumhunting, so doublescore one for me! 2. More MTG discussion, but this time with extra wishy wash! For the record: we focus down people. Why make it easier for the mafia creature to kill people? That is one of the mistakes made in the first game, which you would know if you had read it... like everybody has been telling you to. The entire post is completely useless. It contributes nothing, yet tries to sound as if he is actually contributing, with a "novel" point on the use of Minds Aglow and a pointless question about policy. If this post didn't put you on instant red alert, your scumdar needs fixing. and this + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 08:59 Clockwork Hydra wrote:-snipped- Show nested quote +
What do you think were the "mistakes" town did in the previous game and the "reason" scum won that game?
Well, you mentioned quite a bit of it. They/you spent a LOT of time bickering about useless stuff (not just setup, but completely pointless stuff about setup) and town didn't play as a team (mainly due to everybody mistrusting each other for stupid shit). This game is fundamentally different from normal mafia games not just in that we kill with magic, but because we don't actually have a town-controlled KP. It is thus twice as important to be an active townie, because we are a town TEAM. We need to work together, because our strength is in numbers. This turn people may be able to play one creature, which is a bit of a wimp. But if next turn we can all attack one player with wimps, that will be a healthy chunk of damage. If everybody goes off attacking their own favourite target without reasoning it out properly (like happened in the first 3 turns or so of the previous game), then we have lots of players at 16 life and one dead townie due to mafia creature. That is pointless, and last game was in fact harmful, because the mafia creature could one-shot people sooner than should have been possible (although mafia derped too when they missed an attack). Yes, they're more elaborate forms of our own policies, with some stuff we forgot about. /Acro . Why is he so upset that I asked that question when before he thought it a completely relevant and important question to spend some time on a serious response? There is no reason for such a disparity in opinion. Also, look at this post where they advise caution when powering up a single person + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 09:07 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 08:42 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:On January 29 2013 08:25 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
I know we're all excited to get this started, but can we please get over the trolling phase?
And, honestly, yes, signing IS important. Firstly there are umpteen hydras here and I don't even know which hydra belongs to whom. Secondly, your train of thought should be clear. It's unfair not just to me, but ot others in this game who may not be as familiar with most of you.
Also, assuming the first game did things right is a gross misrepresentation of that game. I read it at the time, and it was a concatenation of mistakes. Partially because people got setup speculation wrong in the beginning, and partially due to just plain bad play.
Scum won that game... and they won for a reason. Lets not repeat it. What trolling phase? Who is trolling right now?What do you think were the "mistakes" town did in the previous game and the "reason" scum won that game? Do you agree with my commandments or not? (short answer please) /GW Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 08:45 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Aperture, will you troll the whole game like this?
If I want I could start fucking you up right now, I even have a card that can do it.
BinOnFire, you there? Wanna post about something? rhetorical questions, already? huh. As for your points, they're fairly straightforward. The thing about #4 (also kinda applies to #5): Sure it's a townies job to establish his townieness - but if everybody did that properly, we wouldn't need any policies in the first place, now. I shall be reluctant to participate in plans when they result in a favorable position of somebody whose alignment I have no clue about. And I advise everybody to use the same caution in regards to this. On the other hand, I won't have any problems cooperating with people whose townieness I am sure of. (or at least if acro is, that's fine too) ~dandel . Then look at how they throw caution to the wind and say everyone trust us and do what's best for us because they would benefit disproportionately from this Minds Aglow play with tons of mana put towards it + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 11:00 Clockwork Hydra wrote:Okay so here's the thing: We are running Zombie Infestation. (this badboy right here: + Show Spoiler +) For that reason, we would have prefered Minds aglow next turn (and given all 3 mana, too!), but it seems like like it would be more beneficial to town in general this turn, than delaying until next turn So if it's going to be today, we would REALLY like to cast zombie infestation this turn (instead of contributing mana). And of course still ask everyone else to use as much mana as humanly possible! Not just the lurkers/scum! Everyone! Think of it as a group project! I promise we're not crazy (or scum) ~dandel (with acro's consent) . I mean it's not even 3 hours into day 1 yet. It would be one thing to just advocate power plays, but the fact they warn against them and say to be really careful, but then instantly say to back theirs is ridiculous. Lastly, I already showed before how their attack on me was bad and all of this definitely has me thinking Clockwork is the first scum. Im not finding this to be particularly indicative of CH's alignment.
On January 30 2013 15:31 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 09:53 Stutters695 wrote:On January 30 2013 09:48 Aperture Science wrote:
I will attack BinOnFire with everything, every turn.
Now you no longer have to worry about me in your attempts to plan out what everyone will play. Or you could attack someone for being scum and play to win? This post i agree with completely
On January 30 2013 16:20 Nova_Terra wrote:
I also dont think that its alignment indicative, just quite dumb.
On January 30 2013 08:04 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 07:53 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Well Nova, who do you think could be scum from the hydras? I.e who are you the most suspicious of them?
/G Marv+ s&b
On January 30 2013 06:41 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 04:33 RockHydra wrote:I disagree with the notion of everything that can attack should attack. However, I would only accept that if you were legitimately doing other things, instead of simply not attacking. The combat phase is like the voting structure, so if you either don't have creatures, or you have abilities that you want to use instead of attacking, I would like an explanation of what you intend to do and why. In addition, if you cannot contribute to the attacking phase itself, I'd like input on who you would like to have focused down, if anyone.
I can't say I have anyone who I really think is scum yet. iGrok is the trolliest of us, so he's the lowest level of null in terms of who I would be inclined to attack. Clockwork and ThePoster are active and from my perspective are trying to steer the town in the "correct" (whatever that means) direction from their point of view. Stutters has yet to follow through on: On January 30 2013 00:48 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm up, catching up now. I'm willing to let slide the initial posting because he said he was at work. I initially found it scummy that ThePoster took a swing at stutters for being afkish last night, but he's done that to almost everything in the thread (looking at you gonzaw). Stutter's you caught up yet or what? You should have had plenty of time by now, give us something. Regarding Xfire, and what I asked Acro to expand upon -> If you haven't seen cross' mafia play from Mario mini, consult with Dandel (he co-hosted). I believe I can "feel" his enthusiasm towards this game and based on what I've seen of his scum play, my gut-read is town on him from his opening post alone. Obviously this is a meta read, but his filter is too short to make anything more than that out of it. BinOnFire seems to have a very pro-town deck setup, so his posting so far, while generally beneficial for town, is pigeonholed due to the nature of the deck he's running. Aside from wanting to keep him around because we will all benefit, I don't see any great contributions to develop a town OR scum read on him. I'm null on Nova. His posting doesn't give off scumvibes, and he gave out reads seemingly as soon as they came to mind when he found his way into the thread. However, he developed a suspicion on CH and went off on a speculation tangent: + Show Spoiler +On January 30 2013 02:47 Nova_Terra wrote:
2 things before dinner:
I feel that ThePoster is doing a fine job, and has been attempting to do more actual scumhunting and pro-town things than the rest of us. Compared to CH, where I find that much if not most of the time he has been trying to explain why he feels that Minds Aglow is good for the entire town, not only for him. the second thing is related to this:
How is Minds Aglow particularly pro town? If we have to discard back to 7 anyway, I don't like giving CH 10 zombies. Why? Because if he gets 10 zombies before we can get anything that could even come close to rivaling that and he turns out to be scum, we're screwed. Thats like mafia having 30 kp, and we couldnt even be sure if he IS scum because he could just target "scummy" town players. kill 2 of them, and the games like, over. unless someone draws some miracle, that is.
with a lot of hypothetical thinking that assumes CH is scum. I'm fine with general paranoia, but this post just felt a little to assertive in picking a target. Generally waiting to see what SMTD does, as marv isn't exactly readable day1 and SnB has posted very little. Dont get me wrong, im pretty much null on CH. I do think it is much too early to give a null read that much power tho.
On January 30 2013 07:04 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 07:00 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On January 30 2013 06:41 Nova_Terra wrote:On January 30 2013 04:33 RockHydra wrote:I disagree with the notion of everything that can attack should attack. However, I would only accept that if you were legitimately doing other things, instead of simply not attacking. The combat phase is like the voting structure, so if you either don't have creatures, or you have abilities that you want to use instead of attacking, I would like an explanation of what you intend to do and why. In addition, if you cannot contribute to the attacking phase itself, I'd like input on who you would like to have focused down, if anyone.
I can't say I have anyone who I really think is scum yet. iGrok is the trolliest of us, so he's the lowest level of null in terms of who I would be inclined to attack. Clockwork and ThePoster are active and from my perspective are trying to steer the town in the "correct" (whatever that means) direction from their point of view. Stutters has yet to follow through on: On January 30 2013 00:48 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm up, catching up now. I'm willing to let slide the initial posting because he said he was at work. I initially found it scummy that ThePoster took a swing at stutters for being afkish last night, but he's done that to almost everything in the thread (looking at you gonzaw). Stutter's you caught up yet or what? You should have had plenty of time by now, give us something. Regarding Xfire, and what I asked Acro to expand upon -> If you haven't seen cross' mafia play from Mario mini, consult with Dandel (he co-hosted). I believe I can "feel" his enthusiasm towards this game and based on what I've seen of his scum play, my gut-read is town on him from his opening post alone. Obviously this is a meta read, but his filter is too short to make anything more than that out of it. BinOnFire seems to have a very pro-town deck setup, so his posting so far, while generally beneficial for town, is pigeonholed due to the nature of the deck he's running. Aside from wanting to keep him around because we will all benefit, I don't see any great contributions to develop a town OR scum read on him. I'm null on Nova. His posting doesn't give off scumvibes, and he gave out reads seemingly as soon as they came to mind when he found his way into the thread. However, he developed a suspicion on CH and went off on a speculation tangent: + Show Spoiler +On January 30 2013 02:47 Nova_Terra wrote:
2 things before dinner:
I feel that ThePoster is doing a fine job, and has been attempting to do more actual scumhunting and pro-town things than the rest of us. Compared to CH, where I find that much if not most of the time he has been trying to explain why he feels that Minds Aglow is good for the entire town, not only for him. the second thing is related to this:
How is Minds Aglow particularly pro town? If we have to discard back to 7 anyway, I don't like giving CH 10 zombies. Why? Because if he gets 10 zombies before we can get anything that could even come close to rivaling that and he turns out to be scum, we're screwed. Thats like mafia having 30 kp, and we couldnt even be sure if he IS scum because he could just target "scummy" town players. kill 2 of them, and the games like, over. unless someone draws some miracle, that is.
with a lot of hypothetical thinking that assumes CH is scum. I'm fine with general paranoia, but this post just felt a little to assertive in picking a target. Generally waiting to see what SMTD does, as marv isn't exactly readable day1 and SnB has posted very little. Dont get me wrong, im pretty much null on CH. I do think it is much too early to give a null read that much power tho. Nice non-committal stance. I believe we have the highest postcount and it's not all meaningless setup banter either. Do you have an opinion of Poster? /Acro Leaning town
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