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On December 22 2012 09:08 cakepie wrote:
I was roleblocked. With Mocsta's flip I feel that it is thus more likely that this comes from Robert Bellarmine (scum RB) than Martin Luther (town RB).
I'm just curious, why would you assume it's scum RB?
Mocsta has some great points, I find it very hard to provide new insight when cases are well-fabricated and I agree with them. While I do not think the evidence is inconclusive against Chromatically (while I always shared a suspicion of him) Omni is a real issue.
My stance on OmniEulogy:
-I find it very hard to believe that he claimed VT as proper strategy.
-His 100% scum read on corazone is very interesting, as he is very easy to sway off that vote when pressure on corazone is removed. This smells of scum trying to mis-lynch, and he is appearing to be useful by presenting his case against corazone.
Before I vote OE I will provide more explanation for my vote.
Here's what I think happened: Scum omni knows spag will turn town, and pre-claims VT innocent in an attempt to avoid defending against spag's challenges. Otherwise, town omni would genuinely expect spag to turn scum, and then would have no reason to claim VT. This is because scum spag's scum read on omni would be discarded immediately upon spag turning red.
@Omni
Your reason for claiming VT is that you knew they would question you if spag turns town. Are you claiming that your scum read on spag was insufficient to base your vote on, realized that you sheeped the vote, and began to prepare for spag to turn town? This is the only explanation IMO that can come from a townie.
This being said, I would like to hear from sHz and Sylencia, two players who have been posting infrequently and pretty much agreeeing or disagreeing with others without providing reasons. I honestly don't know why these players have been given a free pass, with nobody prodding them during their time afk.
sHz:
-Basically he's a lurking sheep. Agreees with any arguments that multiple people have approved. He switches his vote from corazon to spag juts because spag defended him.
-He does not provide any new information when he posts, and does not participate in very much scum-hunting.
-A list of people he has been suspicious at one point or another: Mocsta, Corazone, Spagetticus, me, threesr. His arguments for suspicion against these players are not very well presented, and are based on things like "the case against X is convincing to me". Votes based on desire to lynch anyone.
-He appears to be useful when not actually being useful. I would like to hear what he has to say about Mocsta's case, he has been active for too long.
I would like to see him actually scumhunt, ask questions that reveal important information.
Sylencia:
-Lurks, comes out with opinions out of the blue that, quite frankly, nobody takes seriously.
-One page filter can serve one purpose: provide as little information as possible so that nobody can make a read.
This definitely brings the advantage to the scum since they currently don't feel pressure in needing to talk, so if they don't talk, they don't reveal anything to us. ---Ironic.
Unless I see increase in useful posting from him he goes up in my scum suspicion.
-away excuse gives him free ride for 1-2 days?
-Has less attention put on him for these reasons
-Votes corazone D1 because he's the easy target (has the most votes) and tries to appear like he is emotionally torn apart by making this choice. Attempt for sympathy can only be scummy to me.
Does anyone agree with any of these points? What are your opinions of shz and sylencia?
Aqua, I thought there was a relationship between theesr and spag, as spag was advocating theesr as town. If we lynched threesr and he turned town, you can probably expect spag to be town too. However if we lynched spag, and he turned town, we would be stuck with the non-useful townie.
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Here's what I think happened: Scum omni knows spag will turn town, and pre-claims VT innocent in an attempt to avoid defending against spag's challenges. Otherwise, town omni would genuinely expect spag to turn scum, and then would have no reason to claim VT. This is because scum spag's scum read on omni would be discarded immediately upon spag turning red.
This is pretty much what I was thinking with Omni, but his explanation is passable and townies do silly things some times. So I'm letting it slide for now.
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And, yes, I agree with you pretty strongly on shz, FatChunk.
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Yeah Cora I know, I'm just trying to get him to post again. And most likely because I got roleblocked as well FC, which given how N1 went it would make sense for our RB to hit me. Mind you why scum would RB cake is strange to me. It's possible that we have two RB's.
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So Omni, you going to vote shz?
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On December 23 2012 06:15 FatChunk wrote:
...
Mocsta has some great points, I find it very hard to provide new insight when cases are well-fabricated and I agree with them. While I do not think the evidence is inconclusive against Chromatically (while I always shared a suspicion of him) Omni is a real issue.
...
I don't quite understand what you've said here. Are you suspicious of Chromatically or not?
This being said, I would like to hear from sHz and Sylencia, two players who have been posting infrequently and pretty much agreeeing or disagreeing with others without providing reasons. I honestly don't know why these players have been given a free pass, with nobody prodding them during their time afk.
Does anyone agree with any of these points? What are your opinions of shz and sylencia?
I'm really not a fan of shz at this point, for largely the reasons you and Chromatic have raised.
I don't think Syl is the most active poster at the best of times (on a quick read of XXXII, where he was VT). I'm prepared to give Syl a little more time to get his head in the game and start contributing and committing to reads... my patience is running out, though.
Aqua, I thought there was a relationship between theesr and spag, as spag was advocating theesr as town. If we lynched threesr and he turned town, you can probably expect spag to be town too. However if we lynched spag, and he turned town, we would be stuck with the non-useful townie.
Like I've said, scum defending some of the weak townies is by no means unheard of, so I don't entirely agree with you here. I'm glad to see some rationale for this though.
I haven't seen quite enough yet to justify moving my vote, but do keep posting sensibly and looking for scum.
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Aqua, do you think that FC is scummier than shz/Omni or are you just pressuring?
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On December 23 2012 08:35 Chromatically wrote:
Aqua, do you think that FC is scummier than shz/Omni or are you just pressuring?
At this point? Pressure. Obviously, I reserve the right to change my mind if he stops contributing or starts posting rubbish.
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Germany2686 Posts
I got roleblocked, but two people claimed it as well. But I guess it is possible with Town RB, Mafia RB, and Mocsta?
I'm really sorry for the extensive lurking / not participating. Today I was at HSC, I may be able to contribute more tomorrow and at least after Tuesday... I read everything though.
On December 23 2012 05:45 Chromatically wrote:
His first "contribution" is here. This looks like a good post at first: it's fairly long, it covers a lot of topics. However, all this is is a summary of what's happened so far. He doesn't take any stances on any of the issues of the time: look at the wishy-washiness on Corazon. He's afraid to take an actual stand, so he says things like "they seem a bit weak" instead of taking a position on it himself.
This is merely the first in a long line of posts of this type, taking no stances while writing long posts anyway:
Compiling information and summarizing is a good thing. It gives a good overview what happend and makes it easier to draw conclusions. But I could have done a better job with taking stances, true.
On December 23 2012 05:45 Chromatically wrote:
He votes Corazon shortly after this post, but with no other justification. He's blatantly lynching for information and is not even paying remote attention to whether Corazon is actually scummy or not. This is the first time he's actually mentioned Corazon since his first (non)read. This was also during the phase of the competing threesr/Corazon wagons, so this is obviously an extremely safe vote.
On December 23 2012 05:45 Chromatically wrote:
Apart from that, that's it. shz has:
- sheeped onto Cora and Spag with no reasoning when the wagons took off
- posted long posts that look good, but take no stances at all
- lynched solely for information
- done nothing else
Agreeing with comments and arguments is sheeping = scum.
Repeating others information and arguments = scum.
If that is your reasoning, you will find scum in everyone. You can't provide unlimited new information. Especially if you are busy (which is my own fault, it will get better once christmas is over... but still my fault). Why do you make cases (like this one)? You want people to jump on the wagon. But then saying it is bad to jump on a wagon is dumb. Also, if reasonable cases were made, what is there still left to add? This line of reasoning will leads to be able to make everyone look scummy.
I never said I wanted to lynch solely for information, I said that it is a factor in considering who to lynch. If there are two or more suspects, I would lynch the one who would provide the most information on either flip.
I'll post more in a bit.
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I agree, sheeping is not necessarily bad. I sheeped onto Spag because I agreed with the case. I also agree that you can't provide unlimited new information.
However, the problem is that you've provided no new information. Summary posts are an easy way to look like a contributor without saying anything new. Throughout your entire filter, there's no actual analysis or contribution at all. The problem isn't that you've sheeped, it's that you've only sheeped, and nothing else.
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Okay, we're more than halfway through day 2 and this is becoming silly. (Most of) the lurkers are still lurking and we don't have a clear idea of who our lynch candidates are yet.
I'd really like to put some direction into this day. Who is here?
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I am here, my preferred candidate is shz, second is Omni.
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I am here. I feel like the two who should be under most pressure are Orange and Shz. I'd like to point out that Threesr has 3 ineffectual posts since Day 1 ended.
Who do you feel would be a better lynch from the first two, and why? They both kind of fall under the same category as non-scum hunters and lurkers, in my opinion.
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I think shz is way better. Orange is a bad lurker, but there's not a lot of inherent scummy things I see in his filter. shz on the other hand, tries to blend in while not doing anything (see case).
I think Orange might be a good lynch later, but I am not nearly as confident in that as I am in shz.
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On December 23 2012 10:34 Chromatically wrote:
I think shz is way better. Orange is a bad lurker, but there's not a lot of inherent scummy things I see in his filter. shz on the other hand, tries to blend in while not doing anything (see case).
I think Orange might be a good lynch later, but I am not nearly as confident in that as I am in shz.
On that point, I agree with you. As of now, I do feel like the case for Shz is a lot better than my case against Orange.
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I think I disagree with you on preferences here. I too like both Orange and Shz as lynches, but Orange's behaviour around the day one lynch is pretty ridiculous.
His first post after the Spag case is:
The case for Spag is huge, I'm leaning towards that. It's really the only case so far that has actually made me consider voting something other than no lynch (my previous top choice). I'd currently rate my voting choices at 1. Spag 2. Kickstar 3. FatChunk with a possibility of no lynch if they have sufficient evidence to the contrary.
He then proceeds to vote no-lynch after saying some other random stuff.
When he comes back in the morning, he votes FatChunk. With absolutely no reason.
So, did he switch from Spag because he found Spag's defence convincing?
On December 22 2012 12:30 Orangeremi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 06:49 Aquanim wrote:
@Orangeremi: What did you think of Spaghetticus' defence to my case? I wasn't swayed either way by it. Your case was a tough one to argue and he tried. I don't feel like he succeeded. When he answered my question about his defense it seemed to me even fluffier as well. ##Vote: OmniEulogy
Nope.
As for his read on Kick:
On December 22 2012 19:04 Orangeremi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 17:39 Aquanim wrote:
It hasn't really changed much from what? Wasn't convince he's town before, still not convinced he is. No reads on being something else, either.
This was in reference to Orange's read on Kick before his posts day 2. Kick only posted once during the night, and I don't see how a #2 scum read turns into a null with that one post.
Basically, the only reason I can see for voting FatChunk is to avoid being on the Spag wagon, and the only reason for that is to avoid responsibility for lynching Spag. As for why he voted FC rather than Kick, FC was the more generally acceptable target at that time I think.
In fact:
##Unvote
##Vote: Orangeremi
Orangeremi, explain yourself. Now.
@FatChunk: Still want to see more from you.
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@Aqua
I apologize, i meant to say i don't think the evidence is conclusive against chrom, but Mocsta brought up some good points regarding Chromatically's agression and alignment to Omni to give me a mild scum read. I am suspicious of Omni, and it would be foolish to ignore the post Mocsta made regarding his and Chrom's alignment.
I suggest we pursue Omni, while keep an eye on sHz. A mafia turn on Omni would cause an increase in suspicion in Chrom, and a town turn on Omni would eliminate interplay between the two.
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haven't read aquas post, am on my way out
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I just don't get a scummy feel from Orange. Voting no-lynch isn't something that mafia would do, it's just something that a noob would.do. I agree that his voting choices are weird, and I'm in no way convinced that he's town, but I just see shz as way worse.
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How on earth am I in a scumteam with Omni? This theory is one of the most stupid things I've ever read.
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EPT
