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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 01 2012 16:59 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 16:57 DarthPunk wrote:
Also. Do you remember that people were up in arms about me being useless early in mario? Kind of like it wasn't part of my meta?
You are now basing a case on a town meta that was anomalous and called out as such during that game. Ah, so that's an exception and your newbie game, which was your first game ever as town, isn't? Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 16:57 DarthPunk wrote:On December 01 2012 16:52 Blazinghand wrote:GSL Mini III had like a 5 day long D1, that was over 48 hours in. The initial 48 hours conform to your D1 town meta, and you should know that. That's not how you opened up Mario Mini at all: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16886982The newbie mini game is indeed an exception, but it was your second game and you were being coached by the magnificent me so I'm sure that changes things. Overall your response is misleading. I didn't get coached by you until day 3. AS you should know. Mario and GSL both show that as soon as I have a read I will make a case. The time of the read and thus the case may change. GSL has been completely shot down, and on Mario either it's "different than your normal town meta" or "you're playing now like you played then" but you can't have it both ways The meta case has one exception and would have an exception every game if you count day one as day one. instead of some other arbitrary cut off that meets your needs.
EBWOP
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On December 01 2012 17:00 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 16:59 DarthPunk wrote:On December 01 2012 16:58 Blazinghand wrote:
Also, btw, the fact that you think I didn't read your mini mafia filter when it's one of the things I linked in my case against you indicates to me even more that you really didn't read my case. All you care about is squirming your way out of this lynch like the slimy scum player you are. At LEAST read the case against you, man! I did. I don;t know how you are coming to the conclusions you reached if you actually read all my town games though. Dude I was literally in, hosting, or coaching all three games you cited. I know your meta at least as well as you do. Of course I read those games.
Well. meta doesn't work on me then. Or at least you interpretation of my meta is flawed.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 01 2012 17:01 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 17:00 Blazinghand wrote:On December 01 2012 16:59 DarthPunk wrote:On December 01 2012 16:58 Blazinghand wrote:
Also, btw, the fact that you think I didn't read your mini mafia filter when it's one of the things I linked in my case against you indicates to me even more that you really didn't read my case. All you care about is squirming your way out of this lynch like the slimy scum player you are. At LEAST read the case against you, man! I did. I don;t know how you are coming to the conclusions you reached if you actually read all my town games though. Dude I was literally in, hosting, or coaching all three games you cited. I know your meta at least as well as you do. Of course I read those games. Well. meta doesn't work on me then. Or at least you interpretation of my meta is flawed.
Those two statements don't convince me, and I doubt they will convince anyone else except perhaps those of your scumbuddies who don't want to bus you just yet.
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On December 01 2012 17:02 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 17:01 DarthPunk wrote:On December 01 2012 17:00 Blazinghand wrote:On December 01 2012 16:59 DarthPunk wrote:On December 01 2012 16:58 Blazinghand wrote:
Also, btw, the fact that you think I didn't read your mini mafia filter when it's one of the things I linked in my case against you indicates to me even more that you really didn't read my case. All you care about is squirming your way out of this lynch like the slimy scum player you are. At LEAST read the case against you, man! I did. I don;t know how you are coming to the conclusions you reached if you actually read all my town games though. Dude I was literally in, hosting, or coaching all three games you cited. I know your meta at least as well as you do. Of course I read those games. Well. meta doesn't work on me then. Or at least you interpretation of my meta is flawed. Those two statements don't convince me, and I doubt they will convince anyone else except perhaps those of your scumbuddies who don't want to bus you just yet.
Please, tell me more about how scummy I am based on one meta case that has exceptions. How about you also respond to the case I made on lazermonkey? Yes. I realise you think I am scum / want to push your mislynch on me, but I would really like your input on the case with the assumption I am town for the moment.
Do you now have a town read on WBG after your unvote?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I have no comments on WBG at this time other than that his explanation for his statements on xatalos is acceptable to me.
How scummy are you based on this meta case that you claim has exceptions but really only has one exception, which is a newbie game, your first game ever as town? Very scummy. How scummy are you based on the fact you clearly didn't read or click through the links on the case but just blindly attacked it, and me, and despite calling me scummy are afraid to vote me due to my veteran status? Very scummy. I've got nothing to say to you or in response to any of your statements about Lazermonkey.
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On December 01 2012 17:08 Blazinghand wrote:
I have no comments on WBG at this time other than that his explanation for his statements on xatalos is acceptable to me.
How scummy are you based on this meta case that you claim has exceptions but really only has one exception, which is a newbie game, your first game ever as town? Very scummy. How scummy are you based on the fact you clearly didn't read or click through the links on the case but just blindly attacked it, and me, and despite calling me scummy are afraid to vote me due to my veteran status? Very scummy. I've got nothing to say to you or in response to any of your statements about Lazermonkey.
Im not afraid to vote you. Nor am I intimidated by you at all. I am just WIFOMING around whether you would pull this as scum or not.
I read the case and I know my own meta.
But hey, can't say I am disappointed that you won't talk to me. Certainly brightens my day.
<3
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
If you know your own meta then as a townie then you have nothing to fear-- you should be able to quite easily dispel this meta case. Unfortunately for you, you rolled scum this game and have utterly failed to dispel any cases.
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I'm curious BH, would you say that your confidence in DarthPunk being scum is telling as to Xatalos's alignment? Given Darth's early posts defending Xata I would find it hard to believe Xata is scum if Darth is. Do you agree?
If Darth is scum, what would you say he has been trying to achieve in the thread before he started defending himself? Who else do you think is implicated by Darth's play up to this point?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I don't make associative tells between unflipped players. Ever.
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On December 01 2012 17:22 Blazinghand wrote:
If you know your own meta then as a townie then you have nothing to fear-- you should be able to quite easily dispel this meta case. Unfortunately for you, you rolled scum this game and have utterly failed to dispel any cases.
The thing is I didn't roll scum this game. I tried to refute it. You just brushed it away and are calling everything I do confirmation that I am in fact scum.
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##unvote
##vote Blazinghand
Just end this farce now. These "cases" are so forced and stupid he has to be Scum.
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Just woke up...
On December 01 2012 10:10 wherebugsgo wrote:However, I want to point out that there is something about Lazermonkey that I find quite disconcerting: he shows up for a brief amount of time, votes randomly, and then leaves. He first did that with Ace and then did it again with Shiaopi. His exchange with Shiaopi seemed really forced and artificial, and he hasn't said anything of substance. Try to think of an opinion he's had or of anything of substance he's said: my mind comes up blank.
##vote Lazermonkey I really don't get how you can read so much into the Ace vote TBH. It was a joke obviously
And it was less then one hour from game starting so I he was hardly in any danger at all. The fact that you are even using this as an argument against me is mind boggling.
Also, I see how you can say that I don't have any reads yet when it's quite clear that he have a scum read on ShiaoPi...While I think WBG post about me was weak, DP ''case'' is FAR worse.
On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:Sup. Thread was interesting to catch up with. Lots of people looking worse than they did previously. I do want to unvote debears however. ##unvote@VE you say that you missed the 10 post. Then how do you feel justified in your vote on debears which only makes sense if you are just sheeping marv (like I assumed you were) Whilst reading through though one player did stick out to me as the scummiest of them all That player is Lazermonkey. Lazermonkey does not like to take a position. Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 23:20 Lazermonkey wrote:On November 30 2012 23:07 ShiaoPi wrote:
Lazer you are painting scummotives were none are. I am simply reinforcing my question on why share them. He had initially responded to it quoting bl. I said why I dont like it and I ask again why. How is that scummy? I think you are reading into it way too much. But you not liking it is not the same thing as it being untrue. While I don't agree with outing the reads either, I think Xata gave a legit explanation of why he did so. He could obviously be lying but he could be speaking the truth and thus I don't really see how we can read so much into it and I am treating it as a null tell for the time being. This post is taken heavily out side of context. I said this to show how stupid ShiaoPi's arguments against Xata were. So if anything I am taking a stance AGAINST ShiaoPi. While it is true I had a null read on Xata at the time of this post(still do) that is totaly and utterly irrelavant.
On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:When asked who his reads were. Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 00:37 Lazermonkey wrote:
Nothing big. I don't really like the amount some players have been trolling, but like someone said, it seems to be the norm in non-newbie games and thus I cannot make too much of a read out of it.
ShaioPi and Xata probebly isn't scum team I guess. He says nothing at all. Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 01:38 Lazermonkey wrote:On December 01 2012 01:02 austinmcc wrote:On December 01 2012 00:37 Lazermonkey wrote:
Nothing big. I don't really like the amount some players have been trolling, but like someone said, it seems to be the norm in non-newbie games and thus I cannot make too much of a read out of it.
ShaioPi and Xata probebly isn't scum team I guess. Which players do you feel have been overly trolly? I agree with your sentiment, but it's not enough to just state that. So let's start something going. Here are my thoughts on Zealos. He's not posting pictures or videos to thread, but he stands out to me as someone who has been here but isn't doing anything. Filter is almost solely one-liners, with a "vote x10" that then gets unvoted. He has one post with any meat to it - + Show Spoiler +On November 30 2012 21:13 Zealos wrote:
I disagree on the question front Xata. Asking lots of questions forces potential Mafia players to give their opinions, and it means they can't avoid talking about the topics at hand, also, it's a good way of getting discussion moving.
The way you avoid mafia being able to ask questions all game and not give opinions is to ask similar questions of them. If everyone on the town team keep pressuring one another, and the mafia team, then eventually it becomes obvious who is scum, - but yet that post is just his thoughts on asking questions, and not actually DOING anything. While not as overtly enjoying himself as others, stuff like vote x10 and one-liners aren't doing anything for the thread. So Lazermonkey, what are your thoughts on Zealos? Do they line up with mine? Beyond that, pick a player of particular interest to you, and I'll give you my thoughts on them. Feel free to share yours or not. Regarding people who are being over trolly in the sense that they basically haven't posted anything abot the game yet, BH and MrZentor. I played with Zentor and he was like this all game (aka, doing nothing) so it's mostly BH I'm concerned about. Marv have been posting alot of things but he have at least been posting some usefull stuff so I'm fine with that. Regarding Zealos, I don't really care about any posts but his last. I basically agree what he was saying about questions, they are good but should be used as a complement to scum hunting, rather than replacing it. I don't think we can read too much into his post tho. I am going to treat him as null for the time being and see if he actually does something usefull.Thoughts about Dandel? He have been posting quite alot although some of it have been rubbish. I don't really like how he claimed to be a noob right away. But at the same time I don't really think it's too good of a move from scum PoV either. I'm treating him null atm. Here is how LM hedges. This could make them townie HOWEVER this could make them scummy overall they are null. I don't really see how me making null reads on some players is making me scum. And the funny thing is, you find that my argument for saying that they are null makes me even more scummy. What a fucked up logic is that? So it would be better for me to simply say that they are null without even an explanation? If some action from some could be considered scummy or townie and it all comes down to WIFOM to determ which one it is, don't you think that is a null tell?
On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:Finally let's look back at his shiao vote. Something is there that may not be apparent but when some reasoning is applied seems off. Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 22:57 Lazermonkey wrote:
I don't like this post at all because at a first glimpse you get the impression that Marv adviced against outing town reads and that Xata still insisted on doing so when it is in fact the other way around. The only two reasons for you to do this is imo:
a). You did not read the post where Xata explained his post very carefully, but why would you make a pressure against him then?
b). You are attempting to make Xata look worse then he in fact did, which is a straight up scum motive.
Neither of these are good for town.
##Unvote
##Vote ShiaoPi What is he saying here? a.) shiao you are town and made what I perceive to be an error. b.) you are scum and are trying to mislynch xatalos either way it is a liability and you need to go. He hedges even when voting shiao. He does not care about mislynching a townie which is 50% of the scenario for shiao in his own estimation. Lazermonkey has been wishy-washy and has not really said anything even when voting. He is not actually contributing and not scumhunting. ##Vote: Lazermonkey While I may not have phrased myself in an optimal way I don't get how you can say that:
''You did not read the post where Xata explained his post very carefully, but why would you make a pressure against him then?''
=
''shiao you are town and made what I perceive to be an error.''
Like WTF, there is a huge diference between theese two. While a) could be done by a really crappy town player it also can be motivated from scum PoV. And saying that there is a 50% chance for either of my estimations is bullcrap. It comes down to which of the explanations you think is more likely. He obviously either did a) or b) but it doesn't really matter unless he is a bad town player in which case we might have to reconsider. But Afaik ShiaoPi is quite experienced player, no?
Several times in this post DP are taking things out of context and he missinterprets ALOT of stuff. He is trying to make me look far worse than I in fact. There isn't any reason for this for town.
Also notice how close after WBGs post this came. While I'd say it's quite unlikely that scum team WBG and DP would make a push at the same time against me, I think it's perfectly resonable to say that DP saw WBGs post and thought there were a decent chance to cause a bandwagon on me.
DP just rose immensley on my scum-o-meter. While I am still suspicious of ShiaoPi because he is yet to come back and give a satisfying answer I think DP is looking worse.
##Unvote
##Vote DarthPunk
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I don't know what to make of BH. His first case against MrZ was based on the assumption that MrZ plays well. He doesn't, so it kinda falls apart. His insane vote flip flopping is just not accomplishing anything, he is neither pushing nor pressuring anyone by saying ''Hmm, scum, I'll vote you'' and two seconds afterwards ''wait a minute, unvote, I'll vote you instead''. His whole case on DP was based on quite weak meta assumptions. Had it not been for DP I'd say he is scum but I really can't see a world where both BH and DP are scum.
Actually, I'd not be suprised if one of BH is in fact 3:rd party. His play seems very off as either alignment, and especially for a player of his caliber I thik that it worrisome.
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EBWOP: wow, that smiley totally fucked with me, 3:rd = 3: rd
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On December 01 2012 18:20 Ace wrote:
##unvote
##vote Blazinghand
Just end this farce now. These "cases" are so forced and stupid he has to be Scum.
you haven't seen him play town much then
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
although whether he fucked up one of MrZentor's games, the case was still absolutely ludicrous :/
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On December 01 2012 20:53 marvellosity wrote:
although whether he fucked up one of MrZentor's games, the case was still absolutely ludicrous :/ Well, it was a meta case based upon meta that MrZentor doesn't have in my experience...
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If he does it when he's Town and he's aware of it and is doing it now what do you think that means? :/
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On December 01 2012 21:19 Ace wrote:
If he does it when he's Town and he's aware of it and is doing it now what do you think that means? :/
you don't even make sense
if he often makes dumb cases as town, then yes, he can be town. it doesn't mean he's scum
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On December 01 2012 18:48 Lazermonkey wrote:Just woke up... Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 10:10 wherebugsgo wrote:However, I want to point out that there is something about Lazermonkey that I find quite disconcerting: he shows up for a brief amount of time, votes randomly, and then leaves. He first did that with Ace and then did it again with Shiaopi. His exchange with Shiaopi seemed really forced and artificial, and he hasn't said anything of substance. Try to think of an opinion he's had or of anything of substance he's said: my mind comes up blank.
##vote Lazermonkey I really don't get how you can read so much into the Ace vote TBH. It was a joke obviously And it was less then one hour from game starting so I he was hardly in any danger at all. The fact that you are even using this as an argument against me is mind boggling. Also, I see how you can say that I don't have any reads yet when it's quite clear that he have a scum read on ShiaoPi...While I think WBG post about me was weak, DP ''case'' is FAR worse. Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:Sup. Thread was interesting to catch up with. Lots of people looking worse than they did previously. I do want to unvote debears however. ##unvote@VE you say that you missed the 10 post. Then how do you feel justified in your vote on debears which only makes sense if you are just sheeping marv (like I assumed you were) Whilst reading through though one player did stick out to me as the scummiest of them all That player is Lazermonkey. Lazermonkey does not like to take a position. On November 30 2012 23:20 Lazermonkey wrote:On November 30 2012 23:07 ShiaoPi wrote:
Lazer you are painting scummotives were none are. I am simply reinforcing my question on why share them. He had initially responded to it quoting bl. I said why I dont like it and I ask again why. How is that scummy? I think you are reading into it way too much. But you not liking it is not the same thing as it being untrue. While I don't agree with outing the reads either, I think Xata gave a legit explanation of why he did so. He could obviously be lying but he could be speaking the truth and thus I don't really see how we can read so much into it and I am treating it as a null tell for the time being. This post is taken heavily out side of context. I said this to show how stupid ShiaoPi's arguments against Xata were. So if anything I am taking a stance AGAINST ShiaoPi. While it is true I had a null read on Xata at the time of this post(still do) that is totaly and utterly irrelavant. Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:When asked who his reads were. On December 01 2012 00:37 Lazermonkey wrote:
Nothing big. I don't really like the amount some players have been trolling, but like someone said, it seems to be the norm in non-newbie games and thus I cannot make too much of a read out of it.
ShaioPi and Xata probebly isn't scum team I guess. He says nothing at all. On December 01 2012 01:38 Lazermonkey wrote:On December 01 2012 01:02 austinmcc wrote:On December 01 2012 00:37 Lazermonkey wrote:
Nothing big. I don't really like the amount some players have been trolling, but like someone said, it seems to be the norm in non-newbie games and thus I cannot make too much of a read out of it.
ShaioPi and Xata probebly isn't scum team I guess. Which players do you feel have been overly trolly? I agree with your sentiment, but it's not enough to just state that. So let's start something going. Here are my thoughts on Zealos. He's not posting pictures or videos to thread, but he stands out to me as someone who has been here but isn't doing anything. Filter is almost solely one-liners, with a "vote x10" that then gets unvoted. He has one post with any meat to it - + Show Spoiler +On November 30 2012 21:13 Zealos wrote:
I disagree on the question front Xata. Asking lots of questions forces potential Mafia players to give their opinions, and it means they can't avoid talking about the topics at hand, also, it's a good way of getting discussion moving.
The way you avoid mafia being able to ask questions all game and not give opinions is to ask similar questions of them. If everyone on the town team keep pressuring one another, and the mafia team, then eventually it becomes obvious who is scum, - but yet that post is just his thoughts on asking questions, and not actually DOING anything. While not as overtly enjoying himself as others, stuff like vote x10 and one-liners aren't doing anything for the thread. So Lazermonkey, what are your thoughts on Zealos? Do they line up with mine? Beyond that, pick a player of particular interest to you, and I'll give you my thoughts on them. Feel free to share yours or not. Regarding people who are being over trolly in the sense that they basically haven't posted anything abot the game yet, BH and MrZentor. I played with Zentor and he was like this all game (aka, doing nothing) so it's mostly BH I'm concerned about. Marv have been posting alot of things but he have at least been posting some usefull stuff so I'm fine with that. Regarding Zealos, I don't really care about any posts but his last. I basically agree what he was saying about questions, they are good but should be used as a complement to scum hunting, rather than replacing it. I don't think we can read too much into his post tho. I am going to treat him as null for the time being and see if he actually does something usefull.Thoughts about Dandel? He have been posting quite alot although some of it have been rubbish. I don't really like how he claimed to be a noob right away. But at the same time I don't really think it's too good of a move from scum PoV either. I'm treating him null atm. Here is how LM hedges. This could make them townie HOWEVER this could make them scummy overall they are null. I don't really see how me making null reads on some players is making me scum. And the funny thing is, you find that my argument for saying that they are null makes me even more scummy. What a fucked up logic is that? So it would be better for me to simply say that they are null without even an explanation? If some action from some could be considered scummy or townie and it all comes down to WIFOM to determ which one it is, don't you think that is a null tell? Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:Finally let's look back at his shiao vote. Something is there that may not be apparent but when some reasoning is applied seems off. On November 30 2012 22:57 Lazermonkey wrote:
I don't like this post at all because at a first glimpse you get the impression that Marv adviced against outing town reads and that Xata still insisted on doing so when it is in fact the other way around. The only two reasons for you to do this is imo:
a). You did not read the post where Xata explained his post very carefully, but why would you make a pressure against him then?
b). You are attempting to make Xata look worse then he in fact did, which is a straight up scum motive.
Neither of these are good for town.
##Unvote
##Vote ShiaoPi What is he saying here? a.) shiao you are town and made what I perceive to be an error. b.) you are scum and are trying to mislynch xatalos either way it is a liability and you need to go. He hedges even when voting shiao. He does not care about mislynching a townie which is 50% of the scenario for shiao in his own estimation. Lazermonkey has been wishy-washy and has not really said anything even when voting. He is not actually contributing and not scumhunting. ##Vote: Lazermonkey While I may not have phrased myself in an optimal way I don't get how you can say that: ''You did not read the post where Xata explained his post very carefully, but why would you make a pressure against him then?'' = ''shiao you are town and made what I perceive to be an error.'' Like WTF, there is a huge diference between theese two. While a) could be done by a really crappy town player it also can be motivated from scum PoV. And saying that there is a 50% chance for either of my estimations is bullcrap. It comes down to which of the explanations you think is more likely. He obviously either did a) or b) but it doesn't really matter unless he is a bad town player in which case we might have to reconsider. But Afaik ShiaoPi is quite experienced player, no? Several times in this post DP are taking things out of context and he missinterprets ALOT of stuff. He is trying to make me look far worse than I in fact. There isn't any reason for this for town. Also notice how close after WBGs post this came. While I'd say it's quite unlikely that scum team WBG and DP would make a push at the same time against me, I think it's perfectly resonable to say that DP saw WBGs post and thought there were a decent chance to cause a bandwagon on me. DP just rose immensley on my scum-o-meter. While I am still suspicious of ShiaoPi because he is yet to come back and give a satisfying answer I think DP is looking worse. ##Unvote
##Vote DarthPunk
Oh look straight up OMGUS. And railing against how 'bad' my case against you was does not discredit said case nor make me scum.
Look at the difference between you and I. You have a case made against you. You 'defend' yourself and then straight up omgus vote me because making a case is anti-town now days.
I have a case made against me. I try to defend myself and then try and figure out if the case against me is being made by scum or if it is in fact a townie who has a legitimate concern. No straight up OMGUS. and I try to decide if this is a mistaken townie or scum pushing the lynch.
I don't really know what to say. If you are in fact town. Your OMGUS of me with little to no reasoning or evidence is terrible play.
If you are scum keep doing what you are doing.
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EPT
