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On December 01 2012 19:33 Lazermonkey wrote:
I don't know what to make of BH. His first case against MrZ was based on the assumption that MrZ plays well. He doesn't, so it kinda falls apart. His insane vote flip flopping is just not accomplishing anything, he is neither pushing nor pressuring anyone by saying ''Hmm, scum, I'll vote you'' and two seconds afterwards ''wait a minute, unvote, I'll vote you instead''. His whole case on DP was based on quite weak meta assumptions. Had it not been for DP I'd say he is scum but I really can't see a world where both BH and DP are scum.
Actually, I'd not be suprised if one of BH is in fact 3:rd party. His play seems very off as either alignment, and especially for a player of his caliber I thik that it worrisome.
Herp derp. Scummy scummy scum scum.
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On December 01 2012 21:51 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 18:48 Lazermonkey wrote:Just woke up... On December 01 2012 10:10 wherebugsgo wrote:However, I want to point out that there is something about Lazermonkey that I find quite disconcerting: he shows up for a brief amount of time, votes randomly, and then leaves. He first did that with Ace and then did it again with Shiaopi. His exchange with Shiaopi seemed really forced and artificial, and he hasn't said anything of substance. Try to think of an opinion he's had or of anything of substance he's said: my mind comes up blank.
##vote Lazermonkey I really don't get how you can read so much into the Ace vote TBH. It was a joke obviously And it was less then one hour from game starting so I he was hardly in any danger at all. The fact that you are even using this as an argument against me is mind boggling. Also, I see how you can say that I don't have any reads yet when it's quite clear that he have a scum read on ShiaoPi...While I think WBG post about me was weak, DP ''case'' is FAR worse. On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:Sup. Thread was interesting to catch up with. Lots of people looking worse than they did previously. I do want to unvote debears however. ##unvote@VE you say that you missed the 10 post. Then how do you feel justified in your vote on debears which only makes sense if you are just sheeping marv (like I assumed you were) Whilst reading through though one player did stick out to me as the scummiest of them all That player is Lazermonkey. Lazermonkey does not like to take a position. On November 30 2012 23:20 Lazermonkey wrote:On November 30 2012 23:07 ShiaoPi wrote:
Lazer you are painting scummotives were none are. I am simply reinforcing my question on why share them. He had initially responded to it quoting bl. I said why I dont like it and I ask again why. How is that scummy? I think you are reading into it way too much. But you not liking it is not the same thing as it being untrue. While I don't agree with outing the reads either, I think Xata gave a legit explanation of why he did so. He could obviously be lying but he could be speaking the truth and thus I don't really see how we can read so much into it and I am treating it as a null tell for the time being. This post is taken heavily out side of context. I said this to show how stupid ShiaoPi's arguments against Xata were. So if anything I am taking a stance AGAINST ShiaoPi. While it is true I had a null read on Xata at the time of this post(still do) that is totaly and utterly irrelavant. On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:When asked who his reads were. On December 01 2012 00:37 Lazermonkey wrote:
Nothing big. I don't really like the amount some players have been trolling, but like someone said, it seems to be the norm in non-newbie games and thus I cannot make too much of a read out of it.
ShaioPi and Xata probebly isn't scum team I guess. He says nothing at all. On December 01 2012 01:38 Lazermonkey wrote:On December 01 2012 01:02 austinmcc wrote:On December 01 2012 00:37 Lazermonkey wrote:
Nothing big. I don't really like the amount some players have been trolling, but like someone said, it seems to be the norm in non-newbie games and thus I cannot make too much of a read out of it.
ShaioPi and Xata probebly isn't scum team I guess. Which players do you feel have been overly trolly? I agree with your sentiment, but it's not enough to just state that. So let's start something going. Here are my thoughts on Zealos. He's not posting pictures or videos to thread, but he stands out to me as someone who has been here but isn't doing anything. Filter is almost solely one-liners, with a "vote x10" that then gets unvoted. He has one post with any meat to it - + Show Spoiler +On November 30 2012 21:13 Zealos wrote:
I disagree on the question front Xata. Asking lots of questions forces potential Mafia players to give their opinions, and it means they can't avoid talking about the topics at hand, also, it's a good way of getting discussion moving.
The way you avoid mafia being able to ask questions all game and not give opinions is to ask similar questions of them. If everyone on the town team keep pressuring one another, and the mafia team, then eventually it becomes obvious who is scum, - but yet that post is just his thoughts on asking questions, and not actually DOING anything. While not as overtly enjoying himself as others, stuff like vote x10 and one-liners aren't doing anything for the thread. So Lazermonkey, what are your thoughts on Zealos? Do they line up with mine? Beyond that, pick a player of particular interest to you, and I'll give you my thoughts on them. Feel free to share yours or not. Regarding people who are being over trolly in the sense that they basically haven't posted anything abot the game yet, BH and MrZentor. I played with Zentor and he was like this all game (aka, doing nothing) so it's mostly BH I'm concerned about. Marv have been posting alot of things but he have at least been posting some usefull stuff so I'm fine with that. Regarding Zealos, I don't really care about any posts but his last. I basically agree what he was saying about questions, they are good but should be used as a complement to scum hunting, rather than replacing it. I don't think we can read too much into his post tho. I am going to treat him as null for the time being and see if he actually does something usefull.Thoughts about Dandel? He have been posting quite alot although some of it have been rubbish. I don't really like how he claimed to be a noob right away. But at the same time I don't really think it's too good of a move from scum PoV either. I'm treating him null atm. Here is how LM hedges. This could make them townie HOWEVER this could make them scummy overall they are null. I don't really see how me making null reads on some players is making me scum. And the funny thing is, you find that my argument for saying that they are null makes me even more scummy. What a fucked up logic is that? So it would be better for me to simply say that they are null without even an explanation? If some action from some could be considered scummy or townie and it all comes down to WIFOM to determ which one it is, don't you think that is a null tell? On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:Finally let's look back at his shiao vote. Something is there that may not be apparent but when some reasoning is applied seems off. On November 30 2012 22:57 Lazermonkey wrote:
I don't like this post at all because at a first glimpse you get the impression that Marv adviced against outing town reads and that Xata still insisted on doing so when it is in fact the other way around. The only two reasons for you to do this is imo:
a). You did not read the post where Xata explained his post very carefully, but why would you make a pressure against him then?
b). You are attempting to make Xata look worse then he in fact did, which is a straight up scum motive.
Neither of these are good for town.
##Unvote
##Vote ShiaoPi What is he saying here? a.) shiao you are town and made what I perceive to be an error. b.) you are scum and are trying to mislynch xatalos either way it is a liability and you need to go. He hedges even when voting shiao. He does not care about mislynching a townie which is 50% of the scenario for shiao in his own estimation. Lazermonkey has been wishy-washy and has not really said anything even when voting. He is not actually contributing and not scumhunting. ##Vote: Lazermonkey While I may not have phrased myself in an optimal way I don't get how you can say that: ''You did not read the post where Xata explained his post very carefully, but why would you make a pressure against him then?'' = ''shiao you are town and made what I perceive to be an error.'' Like WTF, there is a huge diference between theese two. While a) could be done by a really crappy town player it also can be motivated from scum PoV. And saying that there is a 50% chance for either of my estimations is bullcrap. It comes down to which of the explanations you think is more likely. He obviously either did a) or b) but it doesn't really matter unless he is a bad town player in which case we might have to reconsider. But Afaik ShiaoPi is quite experienced player, no? Several times in this post DP are taking things out of context and he missinterprets ALOT of stuff. He is trying to make me look far worse than I in fact. There isn't any reason for this for town. Also notice how close after WBGs post this came. While I'd say it's quite unlikely that scum team WBG and DP would make a push at the same time against me, I think it's perfectly resonable to say that DP saw WBGs post and thought there were a decent chance to cause a bandwagon on me. DP just rose immensley on my scum-o-meter. While I am still suspicious of ShiaoPi because he is yet to come back and give a satisfying answer I think DP is looking worse. ##Unvote
##Vote DarthPunk Oh look straight up OMGUS. And railing against how 'bad' my case against you was does not discredit said case nor make me scum. Look at the difference between you and I. You have a case made against you. You 'defend' yourself and then straight up omgus vote me because making a case is anti-town now days. I have a case made against me. I try to defend myself and then try and figure out if the case against me is being made by scum or if it is in fact a townie who has a legitimate concern. No straight up OMGUS. and I try to decide if this is a mistaken townie or scum pushing the lynch. I don't really know what to say. If you are in fact town. Your OMGUS of me with little to no reasoning or evidence is terrible play.If you are scum keep doing what you are doing. Does OMGUS really mean that you are pushing someone for them being bad? Because in that case I don't how my post is being based on OMGUS.
Basically this post is you saying. ''Lol, I look so ProTown because I'm ProTown because I'm town. Your case sux because you are not ProTown''. Really wtf. I have several points in my case that points toward you being scum. I also answered for all of your arguments on why I am being scum. And all you say is that I am OMGUS-voting you? what? Can you please say what part of the case is OMGUS and motivate why that is? You really aren't saying anything in this post. Nothing you mention is being backed up by even a single piece of evidence.
Btw, in the bolded partyou are now guilty of doing exactly what you accused me of doing earlier. What is your stance on me currently?
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On December 01 2012 21:51 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 19:33 Lazermonkey wrote:
I don't know what to make of BH. His first case against MrZ was based on the assumption that MrZ plays well. He doesn't, so it kinda falls apart. His insane vote flip flopping is just not accomplishing anything, he is neither pushing nor pressuring anyone by saying ''Hmm, scum, I'll vote you'' and two seconds afterwards ''wait a minute, unvote, I'll vote you instead''. His whole case on DP was based on quite weak meta assumptions. Had it not been for DP I'd say he is scum but I really can't see a world where both BH and DP are scum.
Actually, I'd not be suprised if one of BH is in fact 3:rd party. His play seems very off as either alignment, and especially for a player of his caliber I thik that it worrisome. Herp derp. Scummy scummy scum scum. I am convinced.
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On December 01 2012 22:00 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 21:51 DarthPunk wrote:On December 01 2012 18:48 Lazermonkey wrote:Just woke up... On December 01 2012 10:10 wherebugsgo wrote:However, I want to point out that there is something about Lazermonkey that I find quite disconcerting: he shows up for a brief amount of time, votes randomly, and then leaves. He first did that with Ace and then did it again with Shiaopi. His exchange with Shiaopi seemed really forced and artificial, and he hasn't said anything of substance. Try to think of an opinion he's had or of anything of substance he's said: my mind comes up blank.
##vote Lazermonkey I really don't get how you can read so much into the Ace vote TBH. It was a joke obviously And it was less then one hour from game starting so I he was hardly in any danger at all. The fact that you are even using this as an argument against me is mind boggling. Also, I see how you can say that I don't have any reads yet when it's quite clear that he have a scum read on ShiaoPi...While I think WBG post about me was weak, DP ''case'' is FAR worse. On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:Sup. Thread was interesting to catch up with. Lots of people looking worse than they did previously. I do want to unvote debears however. ##unvote@VE you say that you missed the 10 post. Then how do you feel justified in your vote on debears which only makes sense if you are just sheeping marv (like I assumed you were) Whilst reading through though one player did stick out to me as the scummiest of them all That player is Lazermonkey. Lazermonkey does not like to take a position. On November 30 2012 23:20 Lazermonkey wrote:On November 30 2012 23:07 ShiaoPi wrote:
Lazer you are painting scummotives were none are. I am simply reinforcing my question on why share them. He had initially responded to it quoting bl. I said why I dont like it and I ask again why. How is that scummy? I think you are reading into it way too much. But you not liking it is not the same thing as it being untrue. While I don't agree with outing the reads either, I think Xata gave a legit explanation of why he did so. He could obviously be lying but he could be speaking the truth and thus I don't really see how we can read so much into it and I am treating it as a null tell for the time being. This post is taken heavily out side of context. I said this to show how stupid ShiaoPi's arguments against Xata were. So if anything I am taking a stance AGAINST ShiaoPi. While it is true I had a null read on Xata at the time of this post(still do) that is totaly and utterly irrelavant. On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:When asked who his reads were. On December 01 2012 00:37 Lazermonkey wrote:
Nothing big. I don't really like the amount some players have been trolling, but like someone said, it seems to be the norm in non-newbie games and thus I cannot make too much of a read out of it.
ShaioPi and Xata probebly isn't scum team I guess. He says nothing at all. On December 01 2012 01:38 Lazermonkey wrote:On December 01 2012 01:02 austinmcc wrote:On December 01 2012 00:37 Lazermonkey wrote:
Nothing big. I don't really like the amount some players have been trolling, but like someone said, it seems to be the norm in non-newbie games and thus I cannot make too much of a read out of it.
ShaioPi and Xata probebly isn't scum team I guess. Which players do you feel have been overly trolly? I agree with your sentiment, but it's not enough to just state that. So let's start something going. Here are my thoughts on Zealos. He's not posting pictures or videos to thread, but he stands out to me as someone who has been here but isn't doing anything. Filter is almost solely one-liners, with a "vote x10" that then gets unvoted. He has one post with any meat to it - + Show Spoiler +On November 30 2012 21:13 Zealos wrote:
I disagree on the question front Xata. Asking lots of questions forces potential Mafia players to give their opinions, and it means they can't avoid talking about the topics at hand, also, it's a good way of getting discussion moving.
The way you avoid mafia being able to ask questions all game and not give opinions is to ask similar questions of them. If everyone on the town team keep pressuring one another, and the mafia team, then eventually it becomes obvious who is scum, - but yet that post is just his thoughts on asking questions, and not actually DOING anything. While not as overtly enjoying himself as others, stuff like vote x10 and one-liners aren't doing anything for the thread. So Lazermonkey, what are your thoughts on Zealos? Do they line up with mine? Beyond that, pick a player of particular interest to you, and I'll give you my thoughts on them. Feel free to share yours or not. Regarding people who are being over trolly in the sense that they basically haven't posted anything abot the game yet, BH and MrZentor. I played with Zentor and he was like this all game (aka, doing nothing) so it's mostly BH I'm concerned about. Marv have been posting alot of things but he have at least been posting some usefull stuff so I'm fine with that. Regarding Zealos, I don't really care about any posts but his last. I basically agree what he was saying about questions, they are good but should be used as a complement to scum hunting, rather than replacing it. I don't think we can read too much into his post tho. I am going to treat him as null for the time being and see if he actually does something usefull.Thoughts about Dandel? He have been posting quite alot although some of it have been rubbish. I don't really like how he claimed to be a noob right away. But at the same time I don't really think it's too good of a move from scum PoV either. I'm treating him null atm. Here is how LM hedges. This could make them townie HOWEVER this could make them scummy overall they are null. I don't really see how me making null reads on some players is making me scum. And the funny thing is, you find that my argument for saying that they are null makes me even more scummy. What a fucked up logic is that? So it would be better for me to simply say that they are null without even an explanation? If some action from some could be considered scummy or townie and it all comes down to WIFOM to determ which one it is, don't you think that is a null tell? On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:Finally let's look back at his shiao vote. Something is there that may not be apparent but when some reasoning is applied seems off. On November 30 2012 22:57 Lazermonkey wrote:
I don't like this post at all because at a first glimpse you get the impression that Marv adviced against outing town reads and that Xata still insisted on doing so when it is in fact the other way around. The only two reasons for you to do this is imo:
a). You did not read the post where Xata explained his post very carefully, but why would you make a pressure against him then?
b). You are attempting to make Xata look worse then he in fact did, which is a straight up scum motive.
Neither of these are good for town.
##Unvote
##Vote ShiaoPi What is he saying here? a.) shiao you are town and made what I perceive to be an error. b.) you are scum and are trying to mislynch xatalos either way it is a liability and you need to go. He hedges even when voting shiao. He does not care about mislynching a townie which is 50% of the scenario for shiao in his own estimation. Lazermonkey has been wishy-washy and has not really said anything even when voting. He is not actually contributing and not scumhunting. ##Vote: Lazermonkey While I may not have phrased myself in an optimal way I don't get how you can say that: ''You did not read the post where Xata explained his post very carefully, but why would you make a pressure against him then?'' = ''shiao you are town and made what I perceive to be an error.'' Like WTF, there is a huge diference between theese two. While a) could be done by a really crappy town player it also can be motivated from scum PoV. And saying that there is a 50% chance for either of my estimations is bullcrap. It comes down to which of the explanations you think is more likely. He obviously either did a) or b) but it doesn't really matter unless he is a bad town player in which case we might have to reconsider. But Afaik ShiaoPi is quite experienced player, no? Several times in this post DP are taking things out of context and he missinterprets ALOT of stuff. He is trying to make me look far worse than I in fact. There isn't any reason for this for town. Also notice how close after WBGs post this came. While I'd say it's quite unlikely that scum team WBG and DP would make a push at the same time against me, I think it's perfectly resonable to say that DP saw WBGs post and thought there were a decent chance to cause a bandwagon on me. DP just rose immensley on my scum-o-meter. While I am still suspicious of ShiaoPi because he is yet to come back and give a satisfying answer I think DP is looking worse. ##Unvote
##Vote DarthPunk Oh look straight up OMGUS. And railing against how 'bad' my case against you was does not discredit said case nor make me scum. Look at the difference between you and I. You have a case made against you. You 'defend' yourself and then straight up omgus vote me because making a case is anti-town now days. I have a case made against me. I try to defend myself and then try and figure out if the case against me is being made by scum or if it is in fact a townie who has a legitimate concern. No straight up OMGUS. and I try to decide if this is a mistaken townie or scum pushing the lynch. I don't really know what to say. If you are in fact town. Your OMGUS of me with little to no reasoning or evidence is terrible play.If you are scum keep doing what you are doing. Does OMGUS really mean that you are pushing someone for them being bad? Because in that case I don't how my post is being based on OMGUS. Basically this post is you saying. ''Lol, I look so ProTown because I'm ProTown because I'm town. Your case sux because you are not ProTown''. Really wtf. I have several points in my case that points toward you being scum. I also answered for all of your arguments on why I am being scum. And all you say is that I am OMGUS-voting you? what? Can you please say what part of the case is OMGUS and motivate why that is? You really aren't saying anything in this post. Nothing you mention is being backed up by even a single piece of evidence. Btw, in the bolded partyou are now guilty of doing exactly what you accused me of doing earlier. What is your stance on me currently?
Now who is misinterpreting who?
If you have several reasons list them succinctly for me please. I don't want to keep reading your previous travesty of a case and trying to figure out if you actually make sense or you are just retarded like you seem.
You say that giving a bunch of null tells is not scummy. I disagree. And the way in which you phrased those null tells makes you even scummier.
You say that the context was nullifies the scumminess of your wishy washy reads. I say that the read and the lack of conviction and clear stances when giving reads is telling regardless of the context.
As far as I could see. Your 'case' against me was this is why you are wrong. This is why your case is bad. I can;t see any town motive for that. OMGUS vote.
Honestly as much as I am loath to try and interpret any more of your writing, I would like a very short summary of clear definitive reasons for your vote on me.
Oh. And sorry if you thought I was being wishy- washy. I am not. I think you are scum. My vote on you should make that perfectly clear.
By the way. You are being far too defensive for a townie.
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Response in redOn December 01 2012 22:12 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 22:00 Lazermonkey wrote:On December 01 2012 21:51 DarthPunk wrote:On December 01 2012 18:48 Lazermonkey wrote:Just woke up... On December 01 2012 10:10 wherebugsgo wrote:However, I want to point out that there is something about Lazermonkey that I find quite disconcerting: he shows up for a brief amount of time, votes randomly, and then leaves. He first did that with Ace and then did it again with Shiaopi. His exchange with Shiaopi seemed really forced and artificial, and he hasn't said anything of substance. Try to think of an opinion he's had or of anything of substance he's said: my mind comes up blank.
##vote Lazermonkey I really don't get how you can read so much into the Ace vote TBH. It was a joke obviously And it was less then one hour from game starting so I he was hardly in any danger at all. The fact that you are even using this as an argument against me is mind boggling. Also, I see how you can say that I don't have any reads yet when it's quite clear that he have a scum read on ShiaoPi...While I think WBG post about me was weak, DP ''case'' is FAR worse. On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:Sup. Thread was interesting to catch up with. Lots of people looking worse than they did previously. I do want to unvote debears however. ##unvote@VE you say that you missed the 10 post. Then how do you feel justified in your vote on debears which only makes sense if you are just sheeping marv (like I assumed you were) Whilst reading through though one player did stick out to me as the scummiest of them all That player is Lazermonkey. Lazermonkey does not like to take a position. On November 30 2012 23:20 Lazermonkey wrote:On November 30 2012 23:07 ShiaoPi wrote:
Lazer you are painting scummotives were none are. I am simply reinforcing my question on why share them. He had initially responded to it quoting bl. I said why I dont like it and I ask again why. How is that scummy? I think you are reading into it way too much. But you not liking it is not the same thing as it being untrue. While I don't agree with outing the reads either, I think Xata gave a legit explanation of why he did so. He could obviously be lying but he could be speaking the truth and thus I don't really see how we can read so much into it and I am treating it as a null tell for the time being. This post is taken heavily out side of context. I said this to show how stupid ShiaoPi's arguments against Xata were. So if anything I am taking a stance AGAINST ShiaoPi. While it is true I had a null read on Xata at the time of this post(still do) that is totaly and utterly irrelavant. On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:When asked who his reads were. On December 01 2012 00:37 Lazermonkey wrote:
Nothing big. I don't really like the amount some players have been trolling, but like someone said, it seems to be the norm in non-newbie games and thus I cannot make too much of a read out of it.
ShaioPi and Xata probebly isn't scum team I guess. He says nothing at all. On December 01 2012 01:38 Lazermonkey wrote:On December 01 2012 01:02 austinmcc wrote:On December 01 2012 00:37 Lazermonkey wrote:
Nothing big. I don't really like the amount some players have been trolling, but like someone said, it seems to be the norm in non-newbie games and thus I cannot make too much of a read out of it.
ShaioPi and Xata probebly isn't scum team I guess. Which players do you feel have been overly trolly? I agree with your sentiment, but it's not enough to just state that. So let's start something going. Here are my thoughts on Zealos. He's not posting pictures or videos to thread, but he stands out to me as someone who has been here but isn't doing anything. Filter is almost solely one-liners, with a "vote x10" that then gets unvoted. He has one post with any meat to it - + Show Spoiler +On November 30 2012 21:13 Zealos wrote:
I disagree on the question front Xata. Asking lots of questions forces potential Mafia players to give their opinions, and it means they can't avoid talking about the topics at hand, also, it's a good way of getting discussion moving.
The way you avoid mafia being able to ask questions all game and not give opinions is to ask similar questions of them. If everyone on the town team keep pressuring one another, and the mafia team, then eventually it becomes obvious who is scum, - but yet that post is just his thoughts on asking questions, and not actually DOING anything. While not as overtly enjoying himself as others, stuff like vote x10 and one-liners aren't doing anything for the thread. So Lazermonkey, what are your thoughts on Zealos? Do they line up with mine? Beyond that, pick a player of particular interest to you, and I'll give you my thoughts on them. Feel free to share yours or not. Regarding people who are being over trolly in the sense that they basically haven't posted anything abot the game yet, BH and MrZentor. I played with Zentor and he was like this all game (aka, doing nothing) so it's mostly BH I'm concerned about. Marv have been posting alot of things but he have at least been posting some usefull stuff so I'm fine with that. Regarding Zealos, I don't really care about any posts but his last. I basically agree what he was saying about questions, they are good but should be used as a complement to scum hunting, rather than replacing it. I don't think we can read too much into his post tho. I am going to treat him as null for the time being and see if he actually does something usefull.Thoughts about Dandel? He have been posting quite alot although some of it have been rubbish. I don't really like how he claimed to be a noob right away. But at the same time I don't really think it's too good of a move from scum PoV either. I'm treating him null atm. Here is how LM hedges. This could make them townie HOWEVER this could make them scummy overall they are null. I don't really see how me making null reads on some players is making me scum. And the funny thing is, you find that my argument for saying that they are null makes me even more scummy. What a fucked up logic is that? So it would be better for me to simply say that they are null without even an explanation? If some action from some could be considered scummy or townie and it all comes down to WIFOM to determ which one it is, don't you think that is a null tell? On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:Finally let's look back at his shiao vote. Something is there that may not be apparent but when some reasoning is applied seems off. On November 30 2012 22:57 Lazermonkey wrote:
I don't like this post at all because at a first glimpse you get the impression that Marv adviced against outing town reads and that Xata still insisted on doing so when it is in fact the other way around. The only two reasons for you to do this is imo:
a). You did not read the post where Xata explained his post very carefully, but why would you make a pressure against him then?
b). You are attempting to make Xata look worse then he in fact did, which is a straight up scum motive.
Neither of these are good for town.
##Unvote
##Vote ShiaoPi What is he saying here? a.) shiao you are town and made what I perceive to be an error. b.) you are scum and are trying to mislynch xatalos either way it is a liability and you need to go. He hedges even when voting shiao. He does not care about mislynching a townie which is 50% of the scenario for shiao in his own estimation. Lazermonkey has been wishy-washy and has not really said anything even when voting. He is not actually contributing and not scumhunting. ##Vote: Lazermonkey While I may not have phrased myself in an optimal way I don't get how you can say that: ''You did not read the post where Xata explained his post very carefully, but why would you make a pressure against him then?'' = ''shiao you are town and made what I perceive to be an error.'' Like WTF, there is a huge diference between theese two. While a) could be done by a really crappy town player it also can be motivated from scum PoV. And saying that there is a 50% chance for either of my estimations is bullcrap. It comes down to which of the explanations you think is more likely. He obviously either did a) or b) but it doesn't really matter unless he is a bad town player in which case we might have to reconsider. But Afaik ShiaoPi is quite experienced player, no? Several times in this post DP are taking things out of context and he missinterprets ALOT of stuff. He is trying to make me look far worse than I in fact. There isn't any reason for this for town. Also notice how close after WBGs post this came. While I'd say it's quite unlikely that scum team WBG and DP would make a push at the same time against me, I think it's perfectly resonable to say that DP saw WBGs post and thought there were a decent chance to cause a bandwagon on me. DP just rose immensley on my scum-o-meter. While I am still suspicious of ShiaoPi because he is yet to come back and give a satisfying answer I think DP is looking worse. ##Unvote
##Vote DarthPunk Oh look straight up OMGUS. And railing against how 'bad' my case against you was does not discredit said case nor make me scum. Look at the difference between you and I. You have a case made against you. You 'defend' yourself and then straight up omgus vote me because making a case is anti-town now days. I have a case made against me. I try to defend myself and then try and figure out if the case against me is being made by scum or if it is in fact a townie who has a legitimate concern. No straight up OMGUS. and I try to decide if this is a mistaken townie or scum pushing the lynch. I don't really know what to say. If you are in fact town. Your OMGUS of me with little to no reasoning or evidence is terrible play.If you are scum keep doing what you are doing. Does OMGUS really mean that you are pushing someone for them being bad? Because in that case I don't how my post is being based on OMGUS. Basically this post is you saying. ''Lol, I look so ProTown because I'm ProTown because I'm town. Your case sux because you are not ProTown''. Really wtf. I have several points in my case that points toward you being scum. I also answered for all of your arguments on why I am being scum. And all you say is that I am OMGUS-voting you? what? Can you please say what part of the case is OMGUS and motivate why that is? You really aren't saying anything in this post. Nothing you mention is being backed up by even a single piece of evidence. Btw, in the bolded partyou are now guilty of doing exactly what you accused me of doing earlier. What is your stance on me currently? Now who is misinterpreting who? If you have several reasons list them succinctly for me please. I don't want to keep reading your previous travesty of a case and trying to figure out if you actually make sense or you are just retarded like you seem. You say that giving a bunch of null tells is not scummy. I disagree. And the way in which you phrased those null tells makes you even scummier. Then we disagree. Pulling random scum reads out of your ass for the sake of giving out scum reads is not something I think helpes town. Can you give some examples of when I phrase my null tells in a scummy way?You say that the context was nullifies the scumminess of your wishy washy reads. I say that the read and the lack of conviction and clear stances when giving reads is telling regardless of the context. You simply don't get it. The point of post you were refering to wasn't to give my read on Xata but to showcase how bad ShiaoPi's logic was.As far as I could see. Your 'case' against me was this is why you are wrong. This is why your case is bad. I can;t see any town motive for that. OMGUS vote. So there cannot be any kind of scum motivation behind misinterpret or blowing posts out of proportions? kk.Honestly as much as I am loath to try and interpret any more of your writing, I would like a very short summary of clear definitive reasons for your vote on me. Basically boils down to: 1.your case on me being filled of overover exaggerations and/or lies. 2. The timing of the vote(slightly after WBGs).Oh. And sorry if you thought I was being wishy- washy. I am not. I think you are scum. My vote on you should make that perfectly clear. By the way. You are being far too defensive for a townie.
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Don't format like that. It makes it impossible to respond properly. And much more difficult to read overall.
1.)It was';t a random scum read for the sake of it. You are full of shit. I had a problem with your posts. I looked closer and decided you were scum based on your content.
2.)Yet you still gave a read on XATA regardless of the context of that read.
3.) Yeah. But you say misinterpret and blown out of proportion which are subjective because they are based on your perceptions/lies. I feel the opposite on my case. and I think yours was a piece of crap in comparison.
4.) So your case was baseless OMGUS. And that I wrote that much analysis only AFTER seeing bugs's vote?
When In actual fact there were a whole bunch of posts, including bugs' between the time I started it and it was finished.
Yeah I am done with you.
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On December 01 2012 22:38 DarthPunk wrote:
Don't format like that. It makes it impossible to respond properly. And much more difficult to read overall.
1.)It was';t a random scum read for the sake of it. You are full of shit. I had a problem with your posts. I looked closer and decided you were scum based on your content.
2.)Yet you still gave a read on XATA regardless of the context of that read.
3.) Yeah. But you say misinterpret and blown out of proportion which are subjective because they are based on your perceptions/lies. I feel the opposite on my case. and I think yours was a piece of crap in comparison.
4.) So your case was baseless OMGUS. And that I wrote that much analysis only AFTER seeing bugs's vote?
When In actual fact there were a whole bunch of posts, including bugs' between the time I started it and it was finished.
Yeah I am done with you.
1. WTF DUDE, you really aren't looking at what I am writing and in what context I am writing it. I was talking about YOUR accusation of ME being scum for dishing out a couple of null tells, not the other way around. The amount of times you are missreading stuff and calling me scum for it is fucking insane.
2. Yes, and?
3. Ofc, and that is why I think you are scum.
4. You calling me scum on false premises is not the same thing as OMGUS.
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EBWOP
Once again: Can you give some examples of when I phrase my null tells in a scummy way?
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On December 01 2012 22:44 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 22:38 DarthPunk wrote:
Don't format like that. It makes it impossible to respond properly. And much more difficult to read overall.
1.)It was';t a random scum read for the sake of it. You are full of shit. I had a problem with your posts. I looked closer and decided you were scum based on your content.
2.)Yet you still gave a read on XATA regardless of the context of that read.
3.) Yeah. But you say misinterpret and blown out of proportion which are subjective because they are based on your perceptions/lies. I feel the opposite on my case. and I think yours was a piece of crap in comparison.
4.) So your case was baseless OMGUS. And that I wrote that much analysis only AFTER seeing bugs's vote?
When In actual fact there were a whole bunch of posts, including bugs' between the time I started it and it was finished.
Yeah I am done with you.
1. WTF DUDE, you really aren't looking at what I am writing and in what context I am writing it. I was talking about YOUR accusation of ME being scum for dishing out a couple of null tells, not the other way around. The amount of times you are missreading stuff and calling me scum for it is fucking insane.2. Yes, and? 3. Ofc, and that is why I think you are scum. 4. You calling me scum on false premises is not the same thing as OMGUS.
You are obviously not reading or are retarded. That is exactly what I was talking about also.
I am done with you. No good trying to convince scum that they are in fact scum.
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On December 01 2012 22:46 Lazermonkey wrote:
EBWOP
Once again: Can you give some examples of when I phrase my null tells in a scummy way?
It's in my case against you. Which is very good, despite what you are trying to mislead others into thinking.
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EBWOP: I am stupid.
WTF DUDE, you really aren't looking at what I am writing and in what context I am writing it. I was talking about YOUR accusation of ME being scum for dishing out a couple of null tells, not the other way around. The amount of times you are missreading stuff and calling me scum for it is fucking insane.
should read
WTF DUDE, you really aren't looking at what I am writing and in what context I am writing it. I was talking about the fact that you had been calling me out for a big amount of null reads, while I don't think that is a scum tell. The amount of times you are missreading stuff and calling me scum for it is fucking insane.
Shouldv'e been obvious tho. And point still stand, you missinterprent what I said.
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On December 01 2012 15:28 wherebugsgo wrote:of note: marvellosity thinks I've "contradicted" myself when I've said that I'm okay with killing Xatalos, but I have doubts about him being scum. Xatalos is hard to read. That's my opinion. There is no contradiction here at all, and anyone who has come to the conclusion that there is somehow a contradiction there needs to learn basic reading comprehension. Compare it to what I could do here (and note that it would be exactly what marv said about what I am saying) Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 11:05 marvellosity wrote:On December 01 2012 11:01 DarthPunk wrote:
Ok. Any comments on my case? or is everyone content to continue being useless? Like, I am content to be useless also. But if that is the case I won't bother putting effort in you know.
this is scummy as shit. actually we've not been useless for quite a lot of pages now, and if you'd read properly you'd know this. luckily for you, bugs is scummier right now. Let's do some marv-level translation: marv: this is scummy as fuck but I'm going to keep my vote on the guy I'm currently on because I say he's scummier. How the fuck is that different from saying that I find someone currently on the lynch list scummy, but I'd rather pressure someone else who I don't have the same doubts about?
So are you saying marv is scum or bad town?
Because here you seem to think marv is pretty scummy
On December 01 2012 10:37 wherebugsgo wrote:I understand why Ace voted you now. rofl. If anyone else is curious, go check out marvellosity's filter. If he's town, he's doig a pretty shitty job of keeping the thread coherent.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
Hey lazer you still interested in me? I dont think so, seeing you entangled with DP now...just for housekeeping purpose go read my posts if you still think tgat i am not responding to you.
I'm more interested in BH now. I know that his metareading is pretty good(see liquid city) but I dont agree at all with his read on DP, I also cant see how he can be that sure of it right now....
BH you here right now? What makes you so certain? Also did your opinion change on DP following his spat with lazer?
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Everybody go read DoYouHas's filter.
All of his posts are so awkward and mechanical; he is by far the scummiest person here.
##Unvote: Dandel Ion
##Vote: DoYouHas
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ShiaoPi
On December 01 2012 04:14 debears wrote:shiaopi - I don't like these two posts together Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 23:35 ShiaoPi wrote:EBWOP: format On November 30 2012 23:16 ShiaoPi wrote:
I expect sth more thought out. There must have more than just BLs strategy behind it. I expect of xata to be smarter than whathe claims to be. Lazer, why are you so intent on stopping me from questioning xata further? Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 00:03 ShiaoPi wrote:
Well have fun tunneling further then, cant help you.
Since xata is gone now and nobody besides lazer seems to be here I am going to bed now... So he makes a statement "why are you trying to stop me", which to me gives off the feeling that he believes lazer is scum. Then, in the next post he does a 180, and disengages "have fun tunneling further", which to me gives off the feel that he finds lazer townie. If he believed lazer was possibly scum trying to stop questioning, he would keep pursuing it. If he thought not, then he would disengage. I just don't see how he went from post 1 to post 2 in 50 minutes
Mind explaining this?
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
@Debears: I think he is "tunneling" since is not readng my responses properly but just nitpicks them for the parts he wants to read. Either he is scummy by purposely misreading (what i was implying in the first post you quote) or he tunnels by virtue of actually believing his stuff which I categorize as townietrait.
So I was nullish on him and unsure at the time of those quotes. At the moment lazer is slightly leaning town to me. Especially the way he responded to DP feels townie (even if kind of stupid).
@Zentor: mind commenting on other things beside DYH? I'll take a look at him now.
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On December 01 2012 15:17 wherebugsgo wrote:
it's always amusing when on day 1, every time I roll town, I get the same shit for the same stupid reasons. There is a pattern to how I play town: I don't say anything useful for almost all of day 1 because on day 1 I like to observe. That's why my opening votes are usually intended to create reactions, and while they almost always are intentional and on pseudo-scum reads when I post them, my day 1 reads usually change very very quickly.
It's also amusing that every time I roll scum no one calls me scum and then I get shot by some faggot 3rd party or a vigi who is scared of my scum play.
Question WBG
I see what you mean by getting steamrolled by tunneling townies in Mad Men
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668&user=60039
Mad men - Bugs is insulting most of the game after being under heavy pressure
In Big Bang, you did silly stuff, but you also 1) had to replace out, meaning that you most likely 1didn't have time to make posts at the beginning and 2) The game started in night phase, and you were a VT, meaning you had no impact on night actions.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=336250&user=60039
In TL Mafia LV, you didn't even show up for d1.
However, your play in bureaucracy seems much different from your town play in mad men. You have a lot of posts that actually state something before July 18 at 14:21, which was the end of day 1.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=60039
Bureaucracy Mafia
Much more involved in Bureau
In fact, here's a sample post from Bureau in the first half of day 1
On July 17 2012 12:55 wherebugsgo wrote:Time for questions, most important first. VE, this question is important:Do you have a block power, or were you faking it? Katina, what do you think of both hiropro and VE? Foolishness and Katina: thoughts on each other, please. Answers to questions addressed to me that I am willing to answer now: Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 11:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
WBG what are your thoughts on syllo's push on Prob? Did it seem sincere to you? Do you agree with any of the points raised against Probulous by syllo? no to both questions. It was partly why I considered syllo to be scummy. (also his push on Probulous seemed reactionary to the pressure he was receiving in thread, mostly from Foolishness) Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 12:09 HiroPro wrote:
WBG, there's something I don't get about your "let syllo find scum for us". You think that layabout is scummier than syllogism. Ok, fine. But then why even bring up that whole talk (not only does it seem fairly illogical to me), but why would you even feel the need to justify yourself like that? I was asked why I preferred layabout even though I found syllo scummy. I preferred giving a full answer as opposed to a half answer, because I know a lot of people want to lynch syllo today and not many seem to be interested in killing layabout. It may not be an answer that people understand nor even agree with, but that's fine by me. It's my reason for wanting to keep him alive if only temporarily. At any rate right now I'm completely fine with a multitude of players dying. We can't kill them all but I will be pushing those who I think are most likely to flip scum. If that likelihood changes then so will my vote. If it's clear I can't get my #1 target lynched then I will gladly switch to the scummiest target that has the best chance of dying. for the record, my scumreads in order from strongest to weakest right now are:
Blazinghand
layabout
Meapak_Ziphh
syllogismI've omitted Kurumi since he's basically dead.
In other words, based on the two above, you are lying about your pattern of play. Or you have no idea how you play town. Or you have other games I didn't go far back enough to see.
Do you see a pattern in these games? Hell no. You go from worthless, replacing out, not showing up for d1, to being good d1
Can you provide me with your other most recent town games?
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On December 02 2012 00:43 ShiaoPi wrote:
@Debears: I think he is "tunneling" since is not readng my responses properly but just nitpicks them for the parts he wants to read. Either he is scummy by purposely misreading (what i was implying in the first post you quote) or he tunnels by virtue of actually believing his stuff which I categorize as townietrait.
So I was nullish on him and unsure at the time of those quotes. At the moment lazer is slightly leaning town to me. Especially the way he responded to DP feels townie (even if kind of stupid).
@Zentor: mind commenting on other things beside DYH? I'll take a look at him now.
If you were unsure, why did you disengage him?
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man half of you guys are utter shit at this game. Stop fucking going back to past games and read what the fuck you see HERE. You're shitting up the thread with shit that doesn't even matter.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
I looked over DYH's filter and to be honest I think BH to be scummier. Ther are a couple of things that strike me as suspicious, the whole ace is dangerous and xata is noob thing but I also agree with the questions he had for BH. So I want to see some repsonses fom BH right now, unfortunately he seems to be absent...
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EPT
