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United Kingdom31255 Posts
Huh I never did give butterfree a flying attack...
Me and JH discussed almost every possible reason as to why the night actions during N2 was screwed with last night the short answer is we can't know until someone steps forward or we kill the person who screwed with it.
As for scum KP the easy answer could be they aren't killing anyone?
Be it via roleblock / medic protects / veteran abilities we simply don't know but that seems like the more logical solution rather than Hiro's solution which means Mattchew is 100% scum. I also threw around the idea the only KP scum have is the KP the players started with, that still might be the case for all we know.
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ok I am voting biosc until he tells me who he targeted each night with his ability. I really hope the rest of you will to
##vote biosc
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 30 2012 02:59 Mattchew wrote:
ok I am voting biosc until he tells me who he targeted each night with his ability. I really hope the rest of you will to
##vote biosc
Care to explain?
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On August 30 2012 03:00 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 02:59 Mattchew wrote:
ok I am voting biosc until he tells me who he targeted each night with his ability. I really hope the rest of you will to
##vote biosc Care to explain?
i would rather force him to answer. then explain
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 30 2012 03:00 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 03:00 Drazerk wrote:On August 30 2012 02:59 Mattchew wrote:
ok I am voting biosc until he tells me who he targeted each night with his ability. I really hope the rest of you will to
##vote biosc Care to explain? i would rather force him to answer. then explain
Fair enough
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On August 30 2012 02:24 austinmcc wrote:Mafia Factional KPShow nested quote +On August 29 2012 06:40 HiroPro wrote:
the mafia team kp probably changes flavor/type depending on who carries it out. Hiro, why do you think this? If this is the case, which of the NKs would you think are mafia shots?
On August 11 2012 05:03 GreYMisT wrote:
Also the Mafia are required to select a player(s) to carry out their Night Kill(s). This KP Will be effected by type effectiveness.
On August 24 2012 13:40 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 11:37 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Is kill flavour an indicator of how someone died, or is it purely flavour? Its an indicator to some degree
Because I think it's unlikely that mafia have a kp (the team rocket thing) which has been blocked 2 nights in a row. It would make a lot of sense for Toad to have been the only one with that flavor, since he was Giovanni while all the other mafia have just been pokemon.
wbg is probably a mafia hit. And since he had an extra night life, he was probably double stacked that night (psychic only has 1 weakness in the original games).
Draz, why would my solution mean that mattchew is 100% scum?
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N1: VE
N2: Austin
N3: Jingle
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So...being one of those fine folks, I'm kind of interested in knowing that Psyduck does.
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Fuck it. I've got nothing to hide. I'm a medic. I protected those 3 people. If I would have protected a hit, I would have announced it in thread (according to my PM) I also leave a .5 KP perm shield on those I protect, until its busted.
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austin can you confirm that you got +.5 protection?
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ps bio is not lying which makes believe he is town.
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He can't really lie at this stage of the game. However, <3 our medics.
I got no PM saying that I received a shield, but I did not take any damage N2. However, I kind of like that targetting. I still don't think grush is scum, but town Bio sort of throws out the possibility of DT grush with a redcheck on Bio.
Again, we should be lynching Wiggles.
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A Tale of Two Grushes
Grush - LV
Day 1 involves a mayor/pardoner vote. Grush is pretty active during that day. Some one liners, some longer posts, but actual thoughts. See? Look at that. Like a page of filter off the bat, with some real stances.
Grush open being poked at by Toad, over a potential scumslip: On May 28 2012 09:27 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:On May 28 2012 09:17 grush57 wrote:On May 28 2012 09:11 Toadesstern wrote:On May 28 2012 09:06 grush57 wrote:On May 28 2012 09:02 Toadesstern wrote:On May 28 2012 08:58 grush57 wrote:On May 28 2012 08:57 Toadesstern wrote:On May 28 2012 08:55 grush57 wrote:On May 28 2012 08:51 EchelonTee wrote:
bigger
If you haven't posted/said much, now is the time to do it plssss YES DO SO NOW!You're letting the mafia win.  For all we know all 5 mafia could be in those 8. ;( typo or did you post 5 because you're one of them and have 5 buddies? The op tells me it's 6 mafias. Sorry, last game I played was 5 mafia. And before you guys get on my case for an OMGUS you scum slipped, I said all 5, not 5 others. yeah but if you're mafia that would be a likely mistake to make and I don't think a townie would post something like that without checking the OP lol. Not sure what to make of it because people said you're anti-town no matter of alignment and I can see what they were referring to if you really are town :D By saying a typo it refers to me being anti-town? it refers to you being weird. Also about the ET matter: I still disagree with people voting him, even if he's town. Yeah I think he's somewhat likely to flip mafia but he's not a vet in my book and I don't think he should get into the mayoral position for several reasons, even if he is town: The mayor thing is pretty much a one-time use thing. You want someone to use that lynch in a good way and not some random guy who agrees that he's not good d1. The mayor will be shot early on UNLESS he is hurting town. So again, it's pretty much a one-time-only thing because if you're voting the right guys you'll get shot. If you're voting the wrong guys with 2 votes instead of just 1 mafia might want to keep you alive. I don't want that either because that's bad for town as well. So I really think we should vote a vet into the office. Yes you usually vote a vet to protect them, but that doesn't mean that we should vote some guy into the office just because there's no BGs. I find that highly suspicious. Vets are vets and they're going to be shot either way, it's not like not electing them is going to protect them from danger. So you want a good scumhunting vet to get shot? nah I want a good scumhuntig vet to take a mafia down with him before being shot either way. Yeah but everyone is lurking so its going to be a guessing game at this point. So the more important issue right now is to.... POST everyone! Look at this conversation with Toad. Toad initially points out an inconsistency in the number of scum, says Grush might be scum because he counted only 5 scum in a game that had 6 (indicating he might have 5 buddies). Grush gives actual responses, discusses it just being a typo. Doesn't just discuss himself either, but notes the lurkers, has counted posts, and says where he thinks mafia might be hiding.
Grush will occasionally call some folks scummy - + Show Spoiler +On May 30 2012 11:19 grush57 wrote:
I nominate Kenpachi for the lynch.
He is playing his scum meta. Last game, he was inactive and he turned out to be scum. He's putting in less effort than Sinesis who got lynched. All of his posts are one liner's except for one which he makes a list, which is something a scum usually does(I learned that from a real vet.)
I ACCUSE YOU, KENPIKACHU! On May 30 2012 11:48 grush57 wrote:
I'm being mean Kenpachi, you're a pretty cool dude, I'm sorry :"(.
There have been rumors, starting in LIV.
That I have, mystical powers.
They rarely unleash.
This, is a special case.
(LOL YEAH I JUST MADE A LIST WHEN I SAID MAKING LISTS ARE SCUMMY DEAL WITH IT)
You would except him to pick 1-2 vets 2-3 normals and 2-3 noobs right
1.(The smart, cunning godfather) Mr.Wiggles(1 vet down) He posts long, too long to read. He knows better than to lynch someone with no information. I also heard he is pretty good at mafia. If you look at his posts, only a page and there is a lot of indecisiveness in his posts.
2.(The undeserving vet)Mattchew(MAKE IT 1.5) His trap, was actually a trap to get a townie to question him and to get an easy peasy day2 town lynch. He was also lurking and he is a vet common bro you are better.
3.(The bigshot normal)StrongandBig(Pewpew 1)Im running for mayor, jk, no seriously. Et, no gf Mr.Wiggles.Buss my buddy gambit.
4.(Deh studious lurker)Gambitxc32(1(forduhnubs)) I can imagine the qt now(YO GAMBIT MY MAN U GONNA LURK CUZ ALL DEEZ NUBZ ARE LURKING LOL, THO WHEN THEY FIGURE THAT ME, WIGGZ, IS GF U GOTTA VOTE ET SO WE DON'T LOOK CONNECTED)## Studious VOTE: agree. Oh and yeah he is a lurker and was scared of wbg getting on his case and went for him. He obviously is paying attention to game responding to jaj(?) post asking him about stuff or w/e lol.
5.(idk actually, lets say normal)Zealos(yeah were about quick to lynch someone who is town(LOL THEY DONT KNWO THAT I KNOW WHO IS TOWN) aww yeah towncred(like they were actually gonna lynch toad lol such easy cred town fools) Better lurk it up you know, be scummy and put no effort LOL wtf zealos.
6.papapanda or... Manason. When Kenpachi(♥) mentioned him I was like, holy shit these town nubs let another scum hide, brbbbb gotta check dem filter and this took a long time to post and I saw that you put starsenses. Now, I think you might say that or w\e because u think I'll mislead them, but no i am a wizard. Basically, he was doing a bunch of a lil commenting on people not on my starsense list saying bs, less than a page of filter, however he commented on my starsenses so I love him and probly not mafia. Manason- MMK CHECKED HIS FILTER 3RD PAGE-DONT LYNCH GRUSH POLICY LYNCHES ARE BAD. Okay, someone in your QT played LIV and knew how I screwed up town and told everyone to not lynch me so I'd screw up the game. All the people who wanted me dead early game was town(Sinesis and Bh) Noob mistake of saying(ooh protect my gf Mr. Wiggles) more 1 liners blah blah blah too long, OMG YOU GUYS ARE ON MY BUDDY LETS BRING UP KITAMAN27. No, he made the same mistake as me in LIV, randomly voted someone. My starsense powers sais he is town.
Okay so I did all this in TL (LOL I KNOW) and the thread has probably progressed alot as this took like 20-30 mins to write. Please note I am unsure about the 6th mafia. Oh, and a lot of the bad grammar was on purpose.
But he won't really back those accusations up - + Show Spoiler +On May 30 2012 12:04 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 12:00 MajuGarzett wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 30 2012 11:48 grush57 wrote:
I'm being mean Kenpachi, you're a pretty cool dude, I'm sorry :"(.
There have been rumors, starting in LIV.
That I have, mystical powers.
They rarely unleash.
This, is a special case.
(LOL YEAH I JUST MADE A LIST WHEN I SAID MAKING LISTS ARE SCUMMY DEAL WITH IT)
You would except him to pick 1-2 vets 2-3 normals and 2-3 noobs right
1.(The smart, cunning godfather) Mr.Wiggles(1 vet down) He posts long, too long to read. He knows better than to lynch someone with no information. I also heard he is pretty good at mafia. If you look at his posts, only a page and there is a lot of indecisiveness in his posts.
2.(The undeserving vet)Mattchew(MAKE IT 1.5) His trap, was actually a trap to get a townie to question him and to get an easy peasy day2 town lynch. He was also lurking and he is a vet common bro you are better.
3.(The bigshot normal)StrongandBig(Pewpew 1)Im running for mayor, jk, no seriously. Et, no gf Mr.Wiggles.Buss my buddy gambit.
4.(Deh studious lurker)Gambitxc32(1(forduhnubs)) I can imagine the qt now(YO GAMBIT MY MAN U GONNA LURK CUZ ALL DEEZ NUBZ ARE LURKING LOL, THO WHEN THEY FIGURE THAT ME, WIGGZ, IS GF U GOTTA VOTE ET SO WE DON'T LOOK CONNECTED)## Studious VOTE: agree. Oh and yeah he is a lurker and was scared of wbg getting on his case and went for him. He obviously is paying attention to game responding to jaj(?) post asking him about stuff or w/e lol.
5.(idk actually, lets say normal)Zealos(yeah were about quick to lynch someone who is town(LOL THEY DONT KNWO THAT I KNOW WHO IS TOWN) aww yeah towncred(like they were actually gonna lynch toad lol such easy cred town fools) Better lurk it up you know, be scummy and put no effort LOL wtf zealos.
6.papapanda or... Manason. When Kenpachi(♥) mentioned him I was like, holy shit these town nubs let another scum hide, brbbbb gotta check dem filter and this took a long time to post and I saw that you put starsenses. Now, I think you might say that or w\e because u think I'll mislead them, but no i am a wizard. Basically, he was doing a bunch of a lil commenting on people not on my starsense list saying bs, less than a page of filter, however he commented on my starsenses so I love him and probly not mafia. Manason- MMK CHECKED HIS FILTER 3RD PAGE-DONT LYNCH GRUSH POLICY LYNCHES ARE BAD. Okay, someone in your QT played LIV and knew how I screwed up town and told everyone to not lynch me so I'd screw up the game. All the people who wanted me dead early game was town(Sinesis and Bh) Noob mistake of saying(ooh protect my gf Mr. Wiggles) more 1 liners blah blah blah too long, OMG YOU GUYS ARE ON MY BUDDY LETS BRING UP KITAMAN27. No, he made the same mistake as me in LIV, randomly voted someone. My starsense powers sais he is town.
Okay so I did all this in TL (LOL I KNOW) and the thread has probably progressed alot as this took like 20-30 mins to write. Please note I am unsure about the 6th mafia. Oh, and a lot of the bad grammar was on purpose. I agree with others opinions on Wiggles in that his lynch wasn't the best choice but calling someone scum for having posts that are too long is ridiculous. Having a filter a page long isn't too bad as long as the posts have content as Wiggles seem to. Plus wiggles still has more posts than most people anyways. He's not really indecisive either, he had two ideas on who to lynch for day one and so far day 2 has barely started. Sigh majuju, you were lurking too and now that I called out your buddy you finally unlurked. LOL SERIOUSLY TOWN NUBS STAR TPOSTING asdaSDFASDFA. Okay, I will bring up the posts. Actually just read them too much work lol. On June 02 2012 04:33 grush57 wrote:Why don't you ask the scum that question? But really, its obvious who is town and who is scummy on that list of who voted.
On the whole, including pregame banter and postgame, a little over 4 pages, and he died N2.
Grush - LVI
Grush's D1 - Here! Game starts somewhere in the middle. Way less contribution. When he does post, it's agreeing with someone, or little one liners, followed by just a vote on a wagon target.
When Grush gets poked, he responds with one-liners - + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 02:15 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 00:26 Hyaach wrote:
A town grush in LV wasnt afraid to defend towns when he need to nor was he reluctant to share his read. His interaction in the thread was far more active too.
His post this game all are filler-level post with 0 content. Well, it's good to be curious. On July 05 2012 10:17 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 10:13 NoSmurfHere wrote:
Actually judging by the swap and the players on each list I think both were town...hmm.
We should definitely kill grush at least though. We need to address these people who are skating by without getting attention. Allowing them to live while townies die because we seek active scum is a plan for losing. U WANA TUSSLE On July 05 2012 10:33 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 10:22 Twelve wrote:
Wow Grush your filter is really damning... What exactly have you been doing to help town so far? Likewise, chap. On July 07 2012 06:58 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 06:57 Vivax wrote:
I asked you for too much with the read on grush, it's pretty much impossible, tell me about hyaach instead please. Hiss. On July 12 2012 02:15 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 00:55 VisceraEyes wrote:
Same, grush is the scums, he's got my vote tomorrow. STILL JUST A RAT IN THE CAAAAAAAAAGE Plenty of others but that's enough
Scumgrush makes "cases," but they're just kind of weak accusations, or nonsense - + Show Spoiler +On July 04 2012 03:46 grush57 wrote:
Grush was sitting in the tent. Vivax was walking in with a angry crowd behind him ridiculing him about his bad performance. His excuses were very bad, said the crowd, and that HIS LOGIC FAILS. Grush agreed.
##Vote: Vivax On July 07 2012 07:35 grush57 wrote:
T_T definitely between Twelve and BKE though. Kurumi's post does really point out the flaws of BKE, and when pressure came off he was all beepin up the beep, ya know. BUT u may b like, GURSHDEVICE U DON'T HELP AT ALL. True, homeieieieieieieiieieeieieieieieiei, but it doesn't change the fact.
aLZo, 11, __, 13 seems like a noobie townie.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
##Vote:BKE On July 13 2012 01:38 grush57 wrote:
I want to lynch Majuju. all dat lurking and then when called out he is getting all freaky(in the wrong way mmkay)
##Vote: MajuGarzett
On the whole, including pregame banter and postgame, a not quite 4 full pages of filter. Lived until endgame, which was the end of D4.
So, based only on two games and nothing else, what patterns do we see in Grush's play? - Town grush lived half as long as scum grush, but posted as much or more. Towngrush more posty.
- Town grush makes real accusations sometimes, although he may not back them up with anything when asked.
- Town grush is more likely to respond to being called scum, or to people questioning him, with actual discussion.
PokeGrush
PokeGrush's filter is a decent bit over 4 pages, after 3 full cycles (And he spent part of it banned)
He starts off responding to questions - + Show Spoiler +On August 20 2012 09:00 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 08:59 grush57 wrote:
Come on, how are you helping at all right now?
You're wasting time with a useless player.
Anyways I've proven that I'm town. How have you done that? Also, in keeping with the spirit of the thread, spam spam spam On August 20 2012 09:02 grush57 wrote:See look at wiggles, he asks me a legit question. Plus, he continues my tradition  To answer the question, breadcrumb, and meta. Plus I'm town. Now, we must find scum. I must stop posting so scum can start posting and then we catch them. Cool trick. On August 22 2012 11:39 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 11:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 22 2012 10:55 grush57 wrote:
Okay so, I get banned, then People are all up in Drazerk's face because he is telling everybody to kill him and being stupid with that attitude. Still, I think he is town. Then the town switched to Dirkzor, I don't think he is scum either, he is helping out and responding. Hopeless1dr ninja votes, he is scum. People calling out Kurumi for being scummy, I agree. Toad(jk, lol idk) shoots VE, people get on VE's chain for policy lynching. NO ONE IS UP IN JINGLE'S GRILL ABOUT HIM WANTING TO POLICY LYNCH ME:O. Also I think Hiropro? Heist? made a post calling out Jingle which is good cuz he is scum. Then it's like Zephirrid(null on him, he has been getting scummier the longer the game has been going so far) and imallison(who I thought was a noob townie) and dirkzor(I think he is town aswell). End up lynching a townie and thats about where we were at.
So my scum list is:
JingleHell(SCUMSCUMSCUM)
Hopeless1dr(ninja vote, scum)
Maybe BioSC(I don't even know why but he is scum) How is dirk helping? I would like a detailed response on that. I will agree that hopeless is likely scum at this point though. Well I mean he's posting cases and defending himself and contributing. I don't know why he was the closest to being lynched. On August 24 2012 02:28 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:25 Kurumi wrote:On August 24 2012 02:21 grush57 wrote:
Okay :'(
Wiggles you are still ON THE LIST
Besides, biosc is scum.
##Unvote
##Vote: Biosc Why? Well, half his posts are before the game, and he just is basically lurking and not helping. In scum teams in my experience, you have 2-3 active in the thread, and 1-2 basically lurking Toad and chezinu died, I feel like there is only one major player in the thread that is scum atm. Also dirk may be scum aswell, before his posts were useless and now he just lurks.
He gives some reads, with...some reasoning - + Show Spoiler +On August 22 2012 10:55 grush57 wrote:
Okay so, I get banned, then People are all up in Drazerk's face because he is telling everybody to kill him and being stupid with that attitude. Still, I think he is town. Then the town switched to Dirkzor, I don't think he is scum either, he is helping out and responding. Hopeless1dr ninja votes, he is scum. People calling out Kurumi for being scummy, I agree. Toad(jk, lol idk) shoots VE, people get on VE's chain for policy lynching. NO ONE IS UP IN JINGLE'S GRILL ABOUT HIM WANTING TO POLICY LYNCH ME:O. Also I think Hiropro? Heist? made a post calling out Jingle which is good cuz he is scum. Then it's like Zephirrid(null on him, he has been getting scummier the longer the game has been going so far) and imallison(who I thought was a noob townie) and dirkzor(I think he is town aswell). End up lynching a townie and thats about where we were at.
So my scum list is:
JingleHell(SCUMSCUMSCUM)
Hopeless1dr(ninja vote, scum)
Maybe BioSC(I don't even know why but he is scum)
He engages in minor discussion - + Show Spoiler +On August 22 2012 11:03 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 11:00 JingleHell wrote:On August 22 2012 10:57 grush57 wrote:On August 22 2012 10:56 JingleHell wrote:
Sorry my activity has been shit. My guts have been acting up, which has had me not interested in thinking much. Occupational hazard of crohn's.
Anyways, I'm not comfortable with the people looking at VE because he's playing differently. He took a LOT of crap in Mad Men for his play, some based on meta. If a lot of people want him to play differently, and he's tired of being looked at the way he is, he might just try to play differently.
I still like the idea of lynching Grush in absence of real reads, but maybe that's just a combination of me being vindictive and him being Grush. If we have a better target, obviously that would nullify it anyways. YOU DONT ANSWER FOR VE ACTIONS, VE DOES. You're trying to answer for my actions, you're saying it's scummy to want to policy lynch a useless poster (you), when I actually just don't want to read your posts. This game is all about reading intentions. Sometimes that leads to a defense. Tough luck. lol. no. You're assuming he's playing differently because he got butthurt. I'm saying that your scum. Different things On August 25 2012 06:49 grush57 wrote:
Jingle, you don't answer to any of the cases against you, you keep bandwagoning on the townies!!!!!!!!!!!
You call me scum because I'm actually playing this time?!?!?!?1?!!??!?1?1?1!/1?1?1!?1?1
However when commenting on VE's play you said he wanted to play differenty and give him the benefit brohan.
Which is me questioning VE being town right now.
But all the vets aren't trying, the one who did was BC and he died, and Wiggles is playing the EXACT same way he did as scum before. When I played with WBG before and he was town he was very active, and Kenpachi could be town or scum because he is Kenpachi.
**I doctored this quote because it was split into two posts**
I could keep pulling more stuff from this game, but now I want to do something else. So instead, you should read this. You should come to your own conclusions. But if you think Grush is scum, you need some decent reasoning. Because it looks to me like he's playing much more like he did in LV than in LVI. It looks to me like there are some actual helpful posts buried in the trolling. D2 I didn't think hopeless1der was scum, but I didn't fight it hard enough, had just entered the game. D3 I didn't think VE was scum, and I should have swapped my vote from Wiggles to misder in order to try and get a switch at the end. D4 I don't think Grush is scum, and it's time to actually stand up and fight his lynch, early. I do not want scum having control of this one.
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Bio isn't lying. Which, IMO, confirms him town unless he's playing lunatic style scum. I'm convinced Grush is scum for the reasons I've already stated. None of which have actually been refuted by him or anyone else. The "defense" of Grush being presented by Austin doesn't seem to agree with itself. The conclusions drawn really don't fit the evidence, to me.
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On the other hand, I present a little more on Mr. Wiggles.
BC's case regurgitated - + Show Spoiler +On August 23 2012 16:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 14:41 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote:
Mattchew
Heist
Misder
WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). So, this post stuck out to me, because of the misdirection it's pushing. It's funny, because he says I claim people are red, when all I said is I think that at least one of BC and WBG are red. There wasn't a declaration about which I thought was red, just that I thought there was red between them. However, BC reacts very defensively here. His reasoning for me being a scum candidate is that I'm criticizing people and claiming "they must" be red without a case. But the fun part is I didn't call either him or WBG red directly, I just said one of them were red. So, why the defensiveness and near-OMGUS? If for example, I had said that there was at least one red among all the players still alive, no one would care. It would be fallacious to say that I was saying all of them must be red without a case. So then why the difference when I limit it to a small pool of players? Now the next fun part is that besides saying I'm claiming some people must be red when all I did was say that I thought at least one bandwagon was started by scum (which is a reason, by the way), BC criticizes me for doing so without making a case on either one. He also uses this to support the conclusion that I'm scum. This would be fine coming from another player, but not from BC, or at least not if you've read his filter. Let's take a look, shall we? + Show Spoiler [The Terrible Terrible Contradiction Re…] +On August 20 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Whoever said third time is the charm is a horrible liar. Also people stop role speculating. Previous PtP games have seen really amazing ideas thought up and ones that lack any sort of creativity.
What people should instead be concentrating is scum and people trying to push scumish ideas. As Kurumi made the statement of role cops being the best form of cop he is obviously scum.
Now lets continue finding the rest of his team as it appears they are going to out themselves easily. Explanation came 6 hours later. On August 21 2012 04:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 16:16 Dirkzor wrote:Oh god. 7 pages of nothingness so far. Oh and btw I'm to.. No... not that. Horrible way to enter a thread. On August 20 2012 07:41 Drazerk wrote:
##Take In Sunlight
##Solar Beam: VisceraEyes On August 20 2012 07:56 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 07:55 strongandbig wrote:On August 20 2012 07:52 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 07:51 Toadesstern wrote:On August 20 2012 07:48 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 07:46 Toadesstern wrote:
as if. I'll consider that a troll and if you really do damage I'll blast right back.
Also: sup guyses I GOT A KP ROLE OUT OF MY TROLL Basically all I wanted  I said you're trolling. Go figure what that might mean for my post. Still you wouldn't do the threat if you couldn't back up with something other than a half assed vote that means nothing soooooo... why were you trying to out kp roles? Track the damage track the scum Since this is the most interesting thing so far I'll guess its also the best way to start. Drazerk's maybe fake solar beam doesn't make any sense. I know its Drazerk so in that way I could be excused. But the way he explained it doesn't fit a Drazerk move (as I remember him from last I played). I would have expected a more "Because I wanted too" response. All that is meta and not super reliable. But "Track the damage track the scum" doesn't even make sense. Even if you know that Toad have a KP doesn't make it easier to find scum? I dislike Drazerk's posting so far... I end it with this lulz: On August 20 2012 10:44 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:28 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:27 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:17 Drazerk wrote:
I'm with wiggles there are super powers out there that prey on certain information being known (Steamship 4 shot sniper comes to mind)
So the following -
No pokemon names
No Type
No role information
No claiming medic to save scum
Anyone who does this will probably just be shot down or turned green Why do you keep stating obvious things -_- I have my reasons I hope they don't revolve around you using the argument later of "look at how helpful I was being, I clearly cannot be scum" because well, general advice to a group of players who at this point should all know the basics of playing clearly wouldn't need said advice. I never defend myself You should know this by now Then you should really stop playing so scummy. Playing as you are now reaks almost as distinctly red as mr kurumi over there. He smells bad. Theres no real way for me to stop looking like scum with my play style and its why you will need to kill me (I said kill not lynch) before Lylo other whys ill make an awful call at a critical situation and lose town the game or you will all suspect me and lose town the game. Man, I think dirk just claimed scum with this post. hurrah Explanation came 5 hours later. On August 20 2012 10:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 10:28 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:27 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:17 Drazerk wrote:
I'm with wiggles there are super powers out there that prey on certain information being known (Steamship 4 shot sniper comes to mind)
So the following -
No pokemon names
No Type
No role information
No claiming medic to save scum
Anyone who does this will probably just be shot down or turned green Why do you keep stating obvious things -_- I have my reasons I hope they don't revolve around you using the argument later of "look at how helpful I was being, I clearly cannot be scum" because well, general advice to a group of players who at this point should all know the basics of playing clearly wouldn't need said advice. I never defend myself You should know this by now Then you should really stop playing so scummy. Playing as you are now reaks almost as distinctly red as mr kurumi over there. He smells bad. No case. On August 21 2012 05:38 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Chezinu has not yet tried to make a new house called the chezinu house, fake claimed a role, or said hes brown. Guy is mafia yo. No case. On August 22 2012 07:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 04:05 Mementoss wrote:On August 22 2012 03:54 Toadesstern wrote:
mementoss what's your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson? Drazerk - commented more in detail before but troll bad town for now Dirkzor - the only thing suspicious about him seems to be his mess up in meta to try and make imallinson look worse than he is. I think this could be an honest mistake however. Most people voting for Dirkzor are people I don't trust, makes me uneasy. imallinson - will probably be where I'm placing my vote. I commented on it a bit before but will re-iterate. His initial posts were made to look like he contributed and actually tried drag day 1 discussion backwards. He did nothing for scum hunting and when criticized on this fact made a half ass case on SnB just to say he did. Spent most of the time defending himself which shittered up the thread and buried useful posts that were scum hunting at the time, it looks really bad in context. Also in the defence of himself he threw the heat onto dirkzor, who was an easy target because he had early heat in this game anyways. To take this further, his scum buddy who he planned this with, BC, immediately made a case onto dirkzor and got the wagon rolling. Look at the people voting for him, can you honestly say any of them look better than neutral to you?In this order: BC, imallinson, VE, mattchew, misder. I would like to hear your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson additionally. ##Unvote: Mattchew
##Vote: Imallinson Well as you called me scum, and sheeped onto a now confirmed town player as well as lied in the bolded section. Guess what duder, I was putting heat and pressure on both draz + dirk before a case on allinson was EVER MADE. Now obviously thats only a minor lie, but given that I had out right said Dirk Scumclaimed well before that its still a lie. Also given how people voted. Dirk/ mementoss/bumatlarge for likely reds. No case on Bum, and flimsy reasoning on Mementoss. On August 22 2012 11:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 10:55 grush57 wrote:
Okay so, I get banned, then People are all up in Drazerk's face because he is telling everybody to kill him and being stupid with that attitude. Still, I think he is town. Then the town switched to Dirkzor, I don't think he is scum either, he is helping out and responding. Hopeless1dr ninja votes, he is scum. People calling out Kurumi for being scummy, I agree. Toad(jk, lol idk) shoots VE, people get on VE's chain for policy lynching. NO ONE IS UP IN JINGLE'S GRILL ABOUT HIM WANTING TO POLICY LYNCH ME:O. Also I think Hiropro? Heist? made a post calling out Jingle which is good cuz he is scum. Then it's like Zephirrid(null on him, he has been getting scummier the longer the game has been going so far) and imallison(who I thought was a noob townie) and dirkzor(I think he is town aswell). End up lynching a townie and thats about where we were at.
So my scum list is:
JingleHell(SCUMSCUMSCUM)
Hopeless1dr(ninja vote, scum)
Maybe BioSC(I don't even know why but he is scum) How is dirk helping? I would like a detailed response on that. I will agree that hopeless is likely scum at this point though. No case here either. On August 23 2012 10:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:18 Kurumi wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote:
Mattchew
Heist
Misder
WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously So you are defending all those people? KIta died , chez died , bum died ... Who is left , my dear Cobbler? All of them? no, but clear ignorance of people who should still be in the spotlight is ridiculous. Of that list only wbg to me is a town read and the other three are null's. Misder is likely scum based on similar level to his scum levels but hes also notorious for lurking period. Reasoning is based on activity... On August 23 2012 10:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:23 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:22 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote:
Mattchew
Heist
Misder
WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). But mattchew has done something to help town? :S I found SnB as town, and I am pretty sure VE is town too now. so thats pretty helpful what exactly have you done meme? other than bandwagon a townie lynch? you do realize you just claimed scum here right? On August 23 2012 10:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:32 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:23 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:22 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote:
Mattchew
Heist
Misder
WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). But mattchew has done something to help town? :S I found SnB as town, and I am pretty sure VE is town too now. so thats pretty helpful what exactly have you done meme? other than bandwagon a townie lynch? you do realize you just claimed scum here right? I dont get it either Because he has done nothing useful (so far) to help the town in any way. To come out and say "i found blah as town and I think blah is town" is great. You know who likes finding town? or more specifically, differentiating town from third party or town from mafia? Not fucking townies. Saying your green reads is awesome, but if you don't state your red cases with actual reasons and instead just hop on wagons / spout green reads you are likely not town. First time BC has called someone red and then actually made any kind of quick follow up with actual reasoning for it. He was still asked for his reasoning before he gave it though. Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!!! So all in all, according to BC , we have a 9-person scum team of: Kurumi Drazerk Dirkzor Chezinu Mementoss Bumatlarge Hopeless1der Misder Mattchew Only one of these accusations had any sort of case or reasoning to go along with it when he posted it. Two of them had cases posted many hours after the actual accusation. So, that's either 8 or 6 people he has called scum without any kind of case or reasoning to back it up. But in the post I have quoted up at the top, BC says that one of the reasons I'm looking bad is that I called out "people" without a case. That's hypocrisy and contradiction at it's finest. In addition, the very fact that BC has called out so many people without any reasoning is alarming as well. He likes to call people out as not being useful to town or helping the town at all, which is funny when you look at his own posts. Basically, they consist of three things: -Making accusations with no case/reasoning -Role/setup speculation and general advice -Backing up his accusations only when asked Besides the couple cases he has actually bothered to explain, I wouldn't call his posts very "helpful". If you look through his posts without treating his posting as a whole, you might be tricked into thinking he's helping the town or actively scumhunting, but all he's doing is posting accusations that accomplish nothing and do nothing to help us kill scum. Now, the last thing to note is the general attitude with which BC has been treating his cases, particularly the one on Dirkzor today. He doesn't sound like he cares that much about lynching his target. This is a jarring distinction from the way he addresses the players he's accusing. In several posts, BC has claimed that Dirk has claimed scum, says that he's "clearly" acting anti-town, and makes another post where he just calls him mafia plainly. Basically, he says with complete confidence that Dirkzor is 100% scum. However, there aren't really any posts in his filter where he asks for other people to vote for Dirkzor, or challenges their choice of lynch target. So, he's not actively pushing people to lynch Dirk, which is weird considering his posts say that he knows he's scum. Next, is his change in tone after the Day 1 Dirkzor lynch failed: On August 22 2012 07:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 22 2012 04:05 Mementoss wrote:On August 22 2012 03:54 Toadesstern wrote:
mementoss what's your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson? Drazerk - commented more in detail before but troll bad town for now Dirkzor - the only thing suspicious about him seems to be his mess up in meta to try and make imallinson look worse than he is. I think this could be an honest mistake however. Most people voting for Dirkzor are people I don't trust, makes me uneasy. imallinson - will probably be where I'm placing my vote. I commented on it a bit before but will re-iterate. His initial posts were made to look like he contributed and actually tried drag day 1 discussion backwards. He did nothing for scum hunting and when criticized on this fact made a half ass case on SnB just to say he did. Spent most of the time defending himself which shittered up the thread and buried useful posts that were scum hunting at the time, it looks really bad in context. Also in the defence of himself he threw the heat onto dirkzor, who was an easy target because he had early heat in this game anyways. To take this further, his scum buddy who he planned this with, BC, immediately made a case onto dirkzor and got the wagon rolling. Look at the people voting for him, can you honestly say any of them look better than neutral to you?In this order: BC, imallinson, VE, mattchew, misder. I would like to hear your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson additionally. ##Unvote: Mattchew
##Vote: Imallinson Well as you called me scum, and sheeped onto a now confirmed town player as well as lied in the bolded section. Guess what duder, I was putting heat and pressure on both draz + dirk before a case on allinson was EVER MADE. Now obviously thats only a minor lie, but given that I had out right said Dirk Scumclaimed well before that its still a lie. Also given how people voted. Dirk/mementoss/bumatlarge for likely reds. On August 23 2012 13:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
regardless at this time I still feel that dirk or wiggles are better lynches then mattchew so I am voting there.
Vote: dirkzor On August 23 2012 13:37 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 13:34 Drazerk wrote:
Personally I'd rather kill Wiggles / Mattchew over Dirk but thats because I honestly get no vibes from the case and I hate voting on things I don't care about. Honestly the only vibes I get from mattchew are bad townie at the moment. Could that mean red? yes but i feel its less likely. I am fine with a wiggles or dirk situation with current preference to dirk only given that he has done far more to get on my radar. You at least have a reason to not want to kill dirk though which is more than most have. Now Dirkzor has gone from being 100% scum to being "likely scum". Also, his two posts addressing him today are saying that he's "fine" with a dirk lynch, or that he's a better lynch than mattchew. This is different from saying that he thinks Dirkzor is the best lynch, or the person we should for sure kill today. Notice the tentativeness compared to how he acted on Day 1. It's a complete departure from how he was treating him before, and he doesn't give a reason for such a change in his posts. Indeed, he even continues to press Dirkzor into Night 1. So, why the caution and tentativeness from him now? It's because he's sounding out the lynch. He can't just abandon Dirkzor, because of how hard he pressed him on Day 1. As well, there was an anti-Wiggles sentiment that began during Night 1, and now he's saying he'd like to lynch me possibly. However, he doesn't make a strong push one way or the other. His posts are saying that he could go either way, and that he's OK with either one of us being lynched. It's because he's trying to sound out the way town sentiment is running, and wants to leave himself outs in case he comes under opposition. He's setting himself up to keep tunneling Dirkzor without doing anything to really get him killed, while also keeping open the possibility of switching to me if it turns out that's how people want to run Day 2. Therefore: ##Vote: BloodyC0bblerI've outlined what I think of him and his play above. The guy is scum, and he's who we should be lynching today. He's trying to get by with superficial "contributions", and has been playing in a self-contradictory and hypocritical manner since he's first started posting. We need to kill him today, or else he's going to just float by as people give him a pass for doing a minimal amount of anything. + Show Spoiler [Free Bonus Content] +On August 23 2012 10:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:32 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:23 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:22 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote:
Mattchew
Heist
Misder
WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). But mattchew has done something to help town? :S I found SnB as town, and I am pretty sure VE is town too now. so thats pretty helpful what exactly have you done meme? other than bandwagon a townie lynch? you do realize you just claimed scum here right? I dont get it either Because he has done nothing useful (so far) to help the town in any way. To come out and say "i found blah as town and I think blah is town" is great. You know who likes finding town? or more specifically, differentiating town from third party or town from mafia? Not fucking townies. Saying your green reads is awesome, but if you don't state your red cases with actual reasons and instead just hop on wagons / spout green reads you are likely not town. On August 23 2012 10:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:18 Kurumi wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote:
Mattchew
Heist
Misder
WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously So you are defending all those people? KIta died , chez died , bum died ... Who is left , my dear Cobbler? All of them? no, but clear ignorance of people who should still be in the spotlight is ridiculous. Of that list only wbg to me is a town read and the other three are null's. Misder is likely scum based on similar level to his scum levels but hes also notorious for lurking period. Besides the fact that finding town helps find scum through the process of elimination and helps give people "cred", these posts by BC are another example of the terrible "contributions" he makes and why I think he's scum. He calls out Mattchew for calling people town. Mattchew says here that he thought S&B was town (who was flipped), and that he finds VE to be town. BC proceeds to flip out at him and call him scum because he lists VE as a green read. Not exactly "spout[ing] green reads", as BC puts it. Funny is that 13 minutes before that BC made a post of his own saying he has a green read on WBG, which is the same level of pointing out greens that Mattchew was guilty of. Also funny, because Mattchew has posted suspicions and reads and BC claims he has done none of that in favour of pointing out tons of greens. As well, there's another condemnation of calling people red without a case. Hilarious stuff. Set trap, bait, trap sprung. You caught a wiggles. Now wiggles whats awesome is that I was never sure if you were just being lazy, or just red. Easiest way to do that is to set out some bait to see who jumps on me. Given the death of Chez and Toad already for your team, you knew you'd have to take out one of the more well known players fast or risk being slaughtered. Thankfully I knew how to draw out some scum. You see wiggles, by forcing you to justify your earlier post by giving you the "weaker" target to jump at I knew you'd target me. You know, just like your team opted to try and drop VE day 1 and failed? This time I put myself in the shoes of the person who would be attacked as I like the spotlight. Now to start with your horrific case in which I will refute it, then toss the ball back in your scummy court. You start by saying that you only said "you believe one of my and bugs must be scum" You then say i am acting defensively, although I only barely mention you in passing, while the person who made a giant post to attack your play (which only appeared after you called two people out mind you) was ignored. Considering you so obviously cherry picked the case you would find easier to make it is obvious you would ignore the person who was obviously more "defensive". Anyone who has played with me before will recognize based on largess of posts and tone of posts on if im on the offensive or defensive. Nice try lying though. As for my reason on why I believe you are scum? I told people to look at bugs' post that he had already made on you. As you ignored that bit I will toss it in here for all to read. Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 06:02 wherebugsgo wrote:On August 23 2012 05:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
These are my observations.
Town had absolutely no direction on Day 1, and no strong town leaders emerged.
This shows that scum weren't trying hard to seize thread control, and that scum were content with the way things were going. They didn't feel like they had to have any of their players act very pro-active and try to misdirect the town overtly. Meaning, that scum didn't feel threatened
So what does it mean that scum didn't feel threatened? It means that they didn't feel like they were in any danger of actually being killed/lynched. So, this tells us that either both major candidates were town, or that if Dirk is scum, mafia didn't think he would die.
That's pretty obvious though, as those are the only two possibilities, so here's my interpretation of the situation. There wasn't really any concrete push to kill imallinson as compared to Dirk. A lot of the people voting for them were saying they were fine with either dying, and there weren't really any large arguments comparing the merits of killing Dirk vs. imallinson. Both of the lynch trains developed in a way that was insular from the other. This means that who got lynched more or less would just come down to which wagon sheeping townies decided to hop on. This isn't a good situation for mafia because if they hope for chance it might mean that their own member gets bandwagoned to a point where they can't bring it back, or at least to a point where bringing it back puts them under a lot of suspicion. So in that situation, they would make a case for why lynching the townie was better than lynching their scum buddy to prevent the wagon from going the wrong way. But, no one did that. That implies to me that scum didn't care which person got lynched which further implies that both candidates were town.
Further supporting that, is the earlier observation that we didn't really get anything done on Day 1, no strong leaders emerged, and no direction was given. Scum are doing good just by having that happen, and it looks like they didn't feel the need to do anything else, because everything was going their way in terms of the bandwagons. They didn't have to fight for their buddy, because he wasn't up for the lynch.
In my opinion, at least one of the wagons was started by scum (BC/WBG). As well, I find it likely that the scum team split their vote between the two candidates for the most part in order to help prevent people from pointing out one of the lynches as a scum bandwagon, as well as to set themselves up as opposing each other to stop associative tells.
Right now I'm just waiting for the night to end, because kills and vig shots should hopefully clear the air a little and make things more transparent. I agree with most of this. Based on how the wagons went I don't think Dirkzor is scum. I unfortunately was not available to reverse-snowball the allinson lynch. From the looks of it I should've known he was town when so many people jumped on at once. I do disagree, however, with your assumption that one of the wagons was started by scum. #1, I'm town and that leaves BC (and I don't think he is scum ATM either). The fact that you casually push this is really disconcerting, though. You did nothing to stop either wagon and now you're seemingly trying to push blame and culpability based on weak and faulty assumptions onto myself + BC. If you legitimately thought one of us was scum then I'd expect you to actually come forth with reasons but you have simply seeded doubt. ___________________________________ I'm okay with Mattchew dying as he seems particularly lazy this game. From what I recall he doesn't like playing scum (and this was something he stressed in my games) so I think the case on him does have merit from a meta standpoint. I'm unsure what to think of Wiggles based on his last post since he seems to be making summaries that make sense, but making accusations that don't. If I die he should be watched carefully. Also if I die, newer players take note: Toad, BC, VE, bum, Kita, and Zephirdd are all also good targets to watch for in coming days as they are all capable as scum and are all harder to pin early. I would argue that if any of them seem "off their game" then they're probably scum. In particular I would rate Kita as the best scumhunter in this game, so if he's alive and somehow not dangerous to scum then he should be lynched immediately. So far he's done very little so it is certainly possible we may be going in thatdirection. Now his points on you are exactly why I believe you are scum. You see, you and I were on a mafia team once where you and I did exactly what bugs outlined in that post. Exactly to a fucking tee. You know you are caught, and you know I have already bagged another of your team and now you are running scared. Next we have you attempting to throw mud at me for wait, what? Day 1 early game posts? You know, when people were trolling and being faggots? Anyone reading would know those are my early reads based on how people are playing. If they had been solid reads backed up by more than a gut feeling you would have seen me build cases and push their lynch as I did dirkzor. You did notice I spent the majority of the day pushing one target right? Or are you opting to try and cover the fact that I have forced people into posting, pushed my best read, and even *gasp* put pressure on people for bad play. Anyone is free to look through my filter, then they can open and compare to yours. you have 13 posts as I am writing this (ignored your /in post) I have 41. I pushed my best read all day 1, I have called people out for being red. Yes I have called out many people based on random gut feelings or horrific play done by said player. Given that one of those gut reads was accurate and so far only 1 confirmed wrong I am doing fairly well. Who do you think is red wiggles? Me? Who else, lets see in all those 13 posts you You accuse myself and VE. In two game days, and all the content posted and given deaths of players and flips You have found two suspects. Yet you spend more time early on trying to link me to players like toad, make mention that you dislike my posting but rather than attempting to do anything about it you swap over to VE saying that you won't lynch grush until he answers your questions to verify his alignment basically. Yet hes back, hes been back for awhile. You know what you haven't done? What you said you were going to do. you also said this as your main argument to lynch VE Day 1 Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 16:47 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On August 21 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
If there's no support for it, then I'll entertain the cases put forth. There isn't much more to say on the matter, and anyone who dwells on this should be put under scrutiny. It's a vote like any other vote, I've given my reasoning for it - it's up to you guys to convince me that your read on random player is better than my seething hatred for grush' playstyle. I can tell you without a doubt that attempting to bully me for it is not going to work. The problem with this is that it isn't about finding scum. As a townie, you're supposed to look at all available information and decide who is most likely to be scum. You don't say, "I don't like this guy, so I'm voting him and it's up to you to convince me to kill scum instead of him". You're taking any responsibility for having to do anything on Day 1 away from yourself and putting it onto other players. I'm surprised all the people voting for All-In Tim for deferring his opinion to the judgement of others aren't on you for the same thing. ##Vote: VE Note the bolded Parts Then go back and look at the section of bugs post above that I bolded. You directly are calling out two players for two bandwagons forming (no shit typically 1-2 people start analysis on someone that gets a vote rolling) However you specify the no strong leaders emerged while you yourself have done nothing til this point to help direct the town in any way. Thus you are putting onus on myself and bugs as you state one of us must be scum while leaving out the fact that you did absolutely nothing to stop the days actions. If you didn't agree or believed this while it was going on you as town would have put a stop to it rather than "summarizing the day" You also did exactly what you called VE out for as your primary reason to vote for him. Cute that you like inconsistencies. You claim that I am pushing misdirection off one post when you made one yourself doing the same (in regards to myself and bugs) you then do the exact same thing that you called out and voted to lynch someone for yet its ok for you to be hypocritical. Anyone can compare our filters. It is fairly obvious that I am around and as things happen I post on them. Be it lengthy or not is a moot point. Spotting someones scum tells/bad plays and calling them out don't require large post by post analysis, nor do they need indepth behavioural analysis when all you do is put heat on someone for said behaviour. Given that you are misrepresenting my posts, and have waited in the shadows to cherry pick while misrepresenting my posts shows how desperate your team is at this moment. Regardless you have outed yourself as scum and will die for it either by lynch or bullet. Its now merely up to the town. Also I would like to draw everyones attention to how he analyzed me. He took an insane care to talk about my case on dirkzor as minutely as possible. Keeping in mind I have spent more time talking about that lynch of all my reads than any of the others (thus my most comfortable read). Yet he ignores my longer posts and instead concentrates on the posts that are designed to initiate dialogue or minor pressure people. Why would someone who is so sure he is correct on his read not attempt to discredit my dirk case or find flaws in those posts as to why I am red? Simple. If he was town doing a post by post method he would opt to find the faulty logic or the like from where I had most invested myself rather than random small posts. As such he is banking on people not actually re reading day 1, or even both our filters to figure out how full of shit he is. Everyone should at this point in time be lynching dirkzor or mrwiggles Both will bleed red.
VE's thoughts regurgitated - + Show Spoiler +On August 24 2012 02:28 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:16 Kurumi wrote:On August 24 2012 02:11 grush57 wrote:On August 24 2012 02:09 Kurumi wrote:On August 24 2012 02:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
What in the...was that shot not claimed AGAIN? Scum must really be getting desperate.
Was that a blue flip? It looked like it, but everything has been colored blue so I wanted to make sure...
I'm down with a Wiggles lynch guys. BC died trying to get Wiggles lynched, and I think we should oblige him.
##Vote: Wiggles Nah, Wiggles attacking bc is a null tell in my opinion. Look at the timing of this hit, if they wanted to kill bc they would do it faster, it smells like a frame to me. Yeah I considered that aswell, but wiggles has been scummy HMMMMMMMMMMMM idk man also biosc where u been at man! Wiggles scummy ? He seems the only person devoting his time to this game. Some guys dont have enough time , yadda yadda. Although his theory on the lynch sounds wrong... Well I think Dirk is scum based on one post... I did not vote him because of my doubts (his points about viscera were good) it is hard to reread the thread on the phone, eh. Is this a joke? First of all, Wiggles posted like ONE time D1, and that was to vote me and DISAPPEAR. He had NO inclination to affect the lynch yesterday and, as Bugs and Wiggles will tell you, scum seemed to be perfectly content with the way the wagons were going too. Then he's absent for half of today, only to build a case against one of town's stronger scumhunters and disappear again. In what way is Wiggles "devoting his time to this game"? This is strikingly similar to his play in LV - vote, disappear, return to build a case, vote, disappear. I'm voting Mr.Wiggles because I think he's scum. I hope you guys will join me. On August 26 2012 06:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
I think Bugs was mafia hit. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head who really thought he was scum, and given enough information I think he would have been dangerous to the scumteam later. That was a tactical scum hit that screwed Bugs over.
That leaves the question: was it strictly because he would have been dangerous later, or was it because he was on the right track?
Mr. Wiggles being still alive is pretty strange - considering the resistance to his lynch IN SPITE of the BC kill, it seems to me that he'd be an even more attractive kill than Bugs even playing lurky.
Today I want to lynch between Misder and Mr. Wiggles.
I'll put something together when I have time - I'm going out tonight, and won't have access to a computer.
Grush's thoughts regurgitated - + Show Spoiler +On August 24 2012 02:29 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:28 VisceraEyes wrote:
**VE's comment on Wiggles being scum**QUOTE]
Yep this is true. LV play by wiggles. Reminds me exactly of how he played.
Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 06:52 grush57 wrote:
darnit idk how I entered but
when commenting on VE's play you said he wanted to play differenty and give him the benefit brohan.
Which is me questioning VE being town right now.
But all the vets aren't trying, the one who did was BC and he died, and Wiggles is playing the EXACT same way he did as scum before. When I played with WBG before and he was town he was very active, and Kenpachi could be town or scum because he is Kenpachi.
Kenpachi's thoughts regurgitated - + Show Spoiler +On August 24 2012 09:16 Kenpachi wrote:
we gotta kill wiggles tmrw. VE made a pretty good point about his playstyle being very similar to his mafia style. As another veteran who has seen Wiggles' mafia play many times, i can probably say the guy is mafia this game
also the Dirkzor thing is just a shameless and zealous bandwagon.
i skipped everything said about Zephird so far.
Anyone voting Grush or BioSC, think to yourself. What have they done this game? That seems to be one of the main points against them, town feeling that they haven't been useful. Now, this to yourself, what has Wiggles done this game? What's Wiggles done since BC got off his jock? Check his filter!. Apart from some dialogue with me, Wiggles has been active a whopping one time in the last 96 hours or so. What time was that!? It sure sounds important! It is!
Wiggles' only burst of activity in the last chunk of time was around the VE lynch. He came out to call VE scum, make a case on VE, push for VE. After making his case, he just pokes at VE until lynch. That's it.
This is the thing. I'm with him that inactivity =/= scumminess. But check the end of our little chat:On August 28 2012 05:26 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2012 05:14 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Hey austin, do you want to be a good townie and make a decent case for once? On August 27 2012 08:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On August 27 2012 05:30 austinmcc wrote:On August 27 2012 05:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote:I split this up for the people who don't like to read and think anything longer than 5 lines is massive, so a shout-out to you! Here's the first challenge. Someone has to explain why being inactive is a sign of being scum. They also have to explain why not being invested in the game or not caring is a sign of being scum. Anyone who mistakes active lurking for inactivity loses the game. Please speak in general terms and not in terms of specific players, since I've seen this applied over and over again with terrible results. Go!To the extent that you're saying that inactivity isn't necessarily scummy, you're correct and I agree with you. At this point though, not all your votes are due to a generic "inactivity = scummy" rule. Some may be, and some may be pure sheep votes. BC mentioned that specific to you, the way you're playing this game was similar to your scumplay in past games. I know that, to me, the way you're playing this game feels similar to your scumplay in LV. At least some of the accusations in general are not an indictment of inactivity in general, but specific to your play. While you want someone to defend that heuristic "in general terms and not in terms of specific players," not everyone is indicting you in general terms. Moreover, if the accusation is no good when put in general terms, how is your counterargument, which seems to be I've seen this applied over and over again with terrible results a good counter? If you don't like the general rule because it's not specific, don't give a general defense. Plenty of inactive players have flipped town, but that doesn't somehow negate the fact that inactive players can also flip scum. Ok, cool, we've established that using activity as the reason to call someone scum is silly. I propose we start policy lynching for it in future games. Just one point about your last sentence though, is that I'm not saying all inactive players are town, I'm saying that general activity isn't and shouldn't be used as, an indicator of alignment. Moving on. Let's talk about meta now that you've brought it up. Here's the second challenge. Describe my scum play from LV, including appropriate motivations for it, as well as the general state of the game as my play existed in it. Next, describe the state of this game, and how my play resembles my play when I was scum, including similar motivations. So far, the people trying to apply meta to me (including BC) have yet to provide an adequate explanation of my play in previous games as scum, and how it is similar to this game. Simply stating something does not make it so, and if you wish to use meta, you should take the time to explain yourself and demonstrate how it applies. Simply saying that someone's play reminds you of their play in another game when they were scum isn't enough to make an accusation based on meta. Doing so is the same misuse of meta that causes some people to believe that meta is useless or even detrimental in scum hunting. Meta is very useful, but only if you can substantiate it and adequately explain it. Please answer the fucking question. You're using meta as the largest basis for your case, so please explain the meta, or are you just lying through your teeth? I'm voting for you. I'm pushing for you. And I've made terrible cases in the past. But I've also made some good ones. For right now though, I'm not going to post a big ol' meta analysis on you. If you don't get lynched, I may. But I respect your ability to defend yourself and distance yourself from teammates (Rereading LV made me notice how well you'd done that early), and for now I'm more inclined to find you scummy and see what you do on your own, rather than being the first mover and setting you up to respond.If you're 100% intent on having a miniature proper-use-of-meta debate, it can happen postgame or in the general thread. But I picture it gumming up discussion here.
I really wanted to see what Wiggles would do if he were left alone. If he didn't have a case against him to respond to, because he's willing to come in here and defend himself. His responses feel good, feel legit, but if that's all he's contributing, we've got a problem, yes? So I didn't want to keep going back and forth, letting him argue for himself; I wanted to see what he'd actually do on his own volition.
All he did was call out VE. On the day where the other lynch options were Misder, who is confirmed scum, and Wiggles himself. Personally, that rubs me the wrong way. If a guy is only active to defend himself and push the lynch away from one confirmed scum and one maybe-scum, that looks...bad? Scummy? Not quite green/bluetastic? That's my problem with his inactivity. He's been getting active only to defend himself or keep misder/himself from getting lynched. Those aren't good bursts of activity.
So if you're voting Grush or BioSC because of inactivity or lack of contribution, you better be able to show how Wiggles is active and contributing. Where are his reads the last few days? Cuz I don't see much, except to get VE lynched. Where does he participate in trying to figure out how people died, what's up with scum KP, etc.? Cuz I don't see much of that either. I see a veteran player who is still alive this late in the game. I see a player who has been accused by a LOT of players, but never even managed to be the second lynch option (He lagged behind misder yesterday). I see a player who is being called out for fitting the way he played scum in LV, staying in the background, occasionally making a case - see VE, Grush, and Kenpachi's comments, as well as my own.
tl;dr- He's a vet but he's not dead, despite no protection from BioSC and maybe none from Zephir
- He's been mainly inactive, and only recently active to defend himself or push the lynch onto VE yesterday
- He's rubbing a LOT of players the wrong way, BC/VE/Grush/Kenpachi/austinmcc, two of which have flipped town
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eh bio's role doesn't confirm him. but probably not a good lynch right now.
I'll vote for wiggles. I don't think grush is scum. I think he's actually trying to help town. And at this point when I eliminate my town reads, there aren't very many people left to lynch.
Vote wiggles
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Hmm, Biosc with the claim and confirm by mattchew. I guess he is town for now.
##Unvote
##Vote: Mr. Wiggles
He needs to stop avoiding death.
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GRUSH. Answer the antelope question at least, if not both.
Specifically to Grush, don't just check out. I'd like to know (1) if you have any KP that you can direct (shots, putting bombs on people, etc.). No need to claim more than that atm. (2) If each player remaining was an antelope, who would be the most graceful antelope and who would be the sickly, old one that gets picked off by lions?
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On August 30 2012 07:40 austinmcc wrote:GRUSH. Answer the antelope question at least, if not both. Show nested quote +Specifically to Grush, don't just check out. I'd like to know (1) if you have any KP that you can direct (shots, putting bombs on people, etc.). No need to claim more than that atm. (2) If each player remaining was an antelope, who would be the most graceful antelope and who would be the sickly, old one that gets picked off by lions?
Oh ok, uhmm im a pokemon who does stuff but no direct kp.
Best townie right now not sure, maybe you, couple people could be that right now.
Worst player right now that needs to die is definetly Wiggles, I don't know why he keeps escaping death by not even helping town, all he has done so far has whined and get townies killed.
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No no, not townies. If you had to imagine each player as an antelope, who would be graceful? Who would be old and sickly? Antelopes are quite bad at being able to play forum mafia.
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EPT
