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On July 09 2012 01:23 SilverWolfe wrote: Oh come on. This forum has plenty of posts where people make fun of SC2 (Unimpressed Flash etc.), you guys should be able to take at least one about BW.
Seems more disrespectful to the dead guy than bw fans.
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Yeah, but that picture is in poor taste and involves a dead human being. I'd suggest you edit it out.
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At least this thread will end well thanks to SilverWolfe.
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i suggest he gets perm banned for it...
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On July 09 2012 01:11 SilverWolfe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 00:47 JeffGoldblum wrote: Man, it never crossed my mind until I read this thread but when the pro teams and MBC Game shut down this forum manifested itself into a public, group walk-through of the five stages of grief. Fascinating. this picture will piss people off but... + Show Spoiler +The really sad part comes after the end of this OSL... I am gonna miss watching them play BW. can you stop the "i love BW i like it very much and i watch it so much BUT...". cause i think no one will believe u this crap
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OK if you guys are actually that upset I will just remove the picture. I guess you guys can't take a joke.
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On July 09 2012 01:27 Black[CAT] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 00:17 SilverWolfe wrote: I think that for people who think that SC2 is a worse game than BW, as it is now you are objectively correct, but I think that you have to consider that BW games back when BW just came out (or even SCvanilla) were much, much worse than watching something like Flash vs Effort now. This is a time when people were still figuring out how to play the game, and as a result the quality of those old games weren't as good as modern BW games. BW has had 14 years and an expansion to let it's metagame flourish, and flourish it has. The way I see it SC2 might not be as developed a game and people still haven't fully figured out everything about it, but there is a new expansion coming out that will sort of 'reset' the skill levels with the introduction of new units/abilities/maps. The game will change over time, and even watching GSL games now compared to the old open seasons of 2010, there is already a WORLD of difference in the games. To me, each season of GSL just gets better and better. When HotS causes a reset in the skill/metagame, I think that the BW players will suddenly be on an even field compared to the current SC2 pros.
To me BW just seems like such an outdated game that relies on you to do so many things the game should just do itself. Things like how poor the pathfinding is, having to rally workers manually to minerals, the lack of smartcasting and multiple building selection don't actually add anything to the game. Technically, you could individually click and cast with each spellcaster, have only 12 units in each control group, individually click every production building to make units and rally your workers in front of your base and manually move them yourself in SC2. There's nothing stopping you from doing that, but why would you? It just makes the game harder to play.
As much as I love BW sometimes I feel like the only reason you find something like a good set of storms or something being amazing is because you know as a BW player how hard it is to actually do that. If you saw it happen in SC2, you know it's easier to do. To me forcing the players to have to spread their attention over this kind of minor things was fine 10 years ago perhaps when game/computer technology was different, but now there is no point for it. This kind of thing just detracts from the focus on strategy and actual unit control in the game. BW players who are so used to doing these minute things will probably find that they can spread their attention more over the actual game when they have fully switched to SC2. Is this what the majority of the SC2 crowd thinks? About the outdated UI and graphics only? Its the game design that is the killer feature. Way better unit interaction, dynamics and gameplay as well as better to watch (sc2 deathballs, Current hot issue in sc2 is removing deathballs and make units dont clump up right? ).
B.Cat, understand that the vast majority of SC2 fans have NEVER tried more than 5 games of Competitive 1 vs 1 in BW. And have never followed one BW tournament at all! They have pretty much 0 knowledge about the game and scene so they make stupid assumptions about the game while people like you and me have at least attempted in 'getting into' their 'scene'.
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SilverWolfe wow, you are an inferior person.
Personally I don't even want to like SC2. To me SC2 has nothing of what SC BW had. I rather play MOBa games as well. I hope JD and Flash switch to LoL soon.
SC2 is all about hardware promotion. Everyone knows what Blizzard did wrong but no one really cares. People ride the money wave as long as it lasts, then jump ship. Everything that happened was also predicted. I remember very well the interview Testie gave when he first played SC2.'
I don't know what to think about SC2 people. They came to SC2 because SC2 was the new big game. For some reason they decided to stick around. I can tell you that it is now impossible for you to understand what SC BW was before SC2 was released. We were such an elitist group of people and we had so much pride in our game and so much understanding about how unique S Koreans esports scene was.
We had nothing to do with Blizzard or any of their other games. That was nice as well. I am at a point right now that I won't ever pay to play a Blizzard game ever again no matter how good the game is they put out. But it doesn't seem I have to exert a lot of effort. Going to be a happy day the day Blizzard ceases to exist. The dislike for what was my no.1 game designer by far when I was a teen has become absolutely huge. It's a strange thing to recall how I used to recommended Blizzard games to my schoolmates.
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On July 08 2012 23:22 SilverWolfe wrote: I am not sure if this is the best place to ask this question, but this is the BW board so I guess it makes sense to ask it here. If there's a better place, please let me know/move the thread.
Please don't be offended by this because I'm only asking based on what I observe in these forums. Essentially from what I understand, BW fans hate SC2.
Like really, really, REALLY hate SC2. I don't really get this, I started playing/watching BW myself but was pretty excited when SC2 came out, and even though the pro games aren't as high level as BroodWar games were and nor were the players as talented, I still had hope that maybe the game would evolve over time and the pro scene would become more exciting to watch as well.
The thing that I'm gonna ask about is that I've noticed a lot of BW fans have decided to start playing/watching Dota2 and LoL over SC2. Now this is something I genuinely cannot understand. Coming from the perspective of someone who has played/watched RTS games, it just seems ludicrous to me to think that Dota2 or LoL offers even half the entertainment of BW/SC2. To me it just seems odd how some people could genuinely prefer these games over SC2, in fact I have a hard time believing it's a genuine enjoyment of MOBAs.
To me there are three possibilities that I see, and I've listed them here in order of likelihood as I see it:
1. The first group of people are BW fans who are so upset that SC2 is not literally BW in 3D that they can't stand the concept of ever switching to SC2 or trying to enjoy playing/watching it. Also the thought of KeSPA players playing SC2 seems like a blasphemy to these people. I think that these people are so disgusted by SC2 as a game, that they've decided to proudly parade how much they think Dota2 and LoL are better games than SC2 just to spite the game and SC2 fans.
2. The second group of people are fans who believe that Korea somehow 'understands' eSports and what a good eSport is better than every other country, and that playing games that Korea doesn't like/enjoy as much is stupid. These people probably saw how Korean fans didn't take to SC2, but loved LoL. So they decided that because of this, LoL must be a legitimately more interesting game than SC2, because of course this is the same country that started professional Broodwar.
3. The third and least likely possibility I see is people who actually, genuinely, in their hearts, believe that Dota2 and LoL is a better eSport than SC2. Now people don't get me wrong MOBA fans, your games are great in their own right. But coming from an RTS background I just don't see how anyone could find it exciting to watch or even play. The game feels slow and boring when I actually play it, watching it I have no idea what I'm supposed to be impressed or entertained by. I try to imagine how hard it would be for people to cast 4v4 BW/SC2 games seriously and how little the results would actually seem to matter given how bizarrely games with that many teammates can turn out. From a spectator standpoint it just seems like too much random crap going on at once, and that seems to be exactly the case with Dota2/LoL. I think if these people come from a BW background, they probably haven't given watching the GSL or something a try.
So what is the deal exactly? Why do so many BW fans like MOBA games so much over SC2?
I'm sorry but these generalizations have got to stop.
Your entire post wreaks of bullshit.
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On July 09 2012 01:30 SilverWolfe wrote: OK if you guys are actually that upset I will just remove the picture. I guess you guys can't take a joke. lol man up fool
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My point of View:
- I dont watch/like any MOBA games, i just dont get it how it is fun. i even watched a 14min tutorial in youtube to understand how LoL works, what i saw was even worse than what i expected.
- SC2 is an ok game, i currently watch it, BUT, i will not spend the entire night awake to watch koreans play like i did for BW, i dont know if i will watch it for several years like i did for BW.
Well i just saw the picture you posted and yes im offended, this is the problem with the SC2 community : So you guys have been here for 2 years, and suddenly you are experts on balance, you are here 2 years and you are experts on everything, you suddenly know what tourneys format are shit and what formats are the best ones. you think you know us, you think we are dogs just sitting next to a dead body. well you dont know shit. your community dont know shit.
Thats key difference between us and SC2, we listen to ppl older than us, we know koreans know better than us so we listen to them.we acknowledge the great value their words and opinions contains. unlike you, you guys have 0 respect for older people that know better than you.
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On July 09 2012 01:30 SilverWolfe wrote: OK if you guys are actually that upset I will just remove the picture. I guess you guys can't take a joke.
posting a corpse and label it BW is not a fucking joke, are you serious?
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On July 09 2012 01:28 L3gendary wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 01:23 SilverWolfe wrote: Oh come on. This forum has plenty of posts where people make fun of SC2 (Unimpressed Flash etc.), you guys should be able to take at least one about BW. Seems more disrespectful to the dead guy than bw fans. Disrespectful mostly to the dog imo...
But yeah, either way, very distasteful :T
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On July 09 2012 01:30 SilverWolfe wrote: OK if you guys are actually that upset I will just remove the picture. I guess you guys can't take a joke.
The reason its disliked is not because it makes fun about bw
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The thing I like about BW the most was how much it felt like a battle, with a lot of small battles everywhere and maneuvering for strategic angles and positions. With the unit-clumping and Deathball'y nature of SC2 (which in turn led to crippling AoE nerfs), it gets really really boring to watch.
I find Dota/LoL is much much better than SC2 in this aspect. Especially with stuff like LoL's secondary objectives in the game, it makes games feel a lot more interesting. Too bad the actual battles in both SC2 and MOBA games are pretty shitty to watch. I don't think MOBAs can really address this issue but SC2 can. I'd be really happy to see SC2 revamp their unit movement or make unit collision bigger or something... But I'm kind of at the point where I've given up with Blizzard. I don't think it'll ever happen. Now I just visit TL mainly for the Korean Music thread
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I forgot where I read it but I think someone used the analogy of sleeping with the prostitute that killed your wife. That's pretty much SC2 for me~ Also if I wanted to play SC2 I'd be sitting infront of my computer alone laddering for 8 hours a day, rather than playing with friends over voice chat in dota2. SC2 just isn't fun in comparison, an unworthy successor, and as long as Blizzard is running the show I'll never like it I think. Especially considering how on top of things Valve is.
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On July 08 2012 23:22 SilverWolfe wrote: I am not sure if this is the best place to ask this question, but this is the BW board so I guess it makes sense to ask it here. If there's a better place, please let me know/move the thread.
Please don't be offended by this because I'm only asking based on what I observe in these forums. Essentially from what I understand, BW fans hate SC2.
Like really, really, REALLY hate SC2. I don't really get this, I started playing/watching BW myself but was pretty excited when SC2 came out, and even though the pro games aren't as high level as BroodWar games were and nor were the players as talented, I still had hope that maybe the game would evolve over time and the pro scene would become more exciting to watch as well.
The thing that I'm gonna ask about is that I've noticed a lot of BW fans have decided to start playing/watching Dota2 and LoL over SC2. Now this is something I genuinely cannot understand. Coming from the perspective of someone who has played/watched RTS games, it just seems ludicrous to me to think that Dota2 or LoL offers even half the entertainment of BW/SC2. To me it just seems odd how some people could genuinely prefer these games over SC2, in fact I have a hard time believing it's a genuine enjoyment of MOBAs.
To me there are three possibilities that I see, and I've listed them here in order of likelihood as I see it:
1. The first group of people are BW fans who are so upset that SC2 is not literally BW in 3D that they can't stand the concept of ever switching to SC2 or trying to enjoy playing/watching it. Also the thought of KeSPA players playing SC2 seems like a blasphemy to these people. I think that these people are so disgusted by SC2 as a game, that they've decided to proudly parade how much they think Dota2 and LoL are better games than SC2 just to spite the game and SC2 fans.
2. The second group of people are fans who believe that Korea somehow 'understands' eSports and what a good eSport is better than every other country, and that playing games that Korea doesn't like/enjoy as much is stupid. These people probably saw how Korean fans didn't take to SC2, but loved LoL. So they decided that because of this, LoL must be a legitimately more interesting game than SC2, because of course this is the same country that started professional Broodwar.
3. The third and least likely possibility I see is people who actually, genuinely, in their hearts, believe that Dota2 and LoL is a better eSport than SC2. Now people don't get me wrong MOBA fans, your games are great in their own right. But coming from an RTS background I just don't see how anyone could find it exciting to watch or even play. The game feels slow and boring when I actually play it, watching it I have no idea what I'm supposed to be impressed or entertained by. I try to imagine how hard it would be for people to cast 4v4 BW/SC2 games seriously and how little the results would actually seem to matter given how bizarrely games with that many teammates can turn out. From a spectator standpoint it just seems like too much random crap going on at once, and that seems to be exactly the case with Dota2/LoL. I think if these people come from a BW background, they probably haven't given watching the GSL or something a try.
So what is the deal exactly? Why do so many BW fans like MOBA games so much over SC2?
this whole post is a waste of time, you know this is just your opinion right and there is millions more people who play league of legends over sc2? free to play is a very popular model now days and I'm sure that we are having a "genuine" experience cause we enjoy the fucking game, wtf do you think i don't know what i like? you sound ignorant as shit to think your own views are the ones that would be genuine
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Too much emphasis put on the "esport" aspect of it, really.
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There isn't many BW players/fans anyway, so them switching to Dota/LoL shouldn't concern you.
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On July 08 2012 23:34 vOdToasT wrote: I think it's because while DotA is not as amazing as Brood War, it is in a different genre of games than Brood War. This makes it easier to transition to. StarCraft 2 is in the same genre as Brood War, but much worse.
It's easier to change to something that is different altogether, than something that is just inferior. SC2 is just a shitty RTS, an inferior version of SC1, but DotA is something different. When you're used to playing a good RTS, switching to a mediocre one is harder than switching to a DotA game.
Exactly this.
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