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On June 13 2012 00:24 chaoser wrote:I'm ok with gonzaw shooting me right now.
Wow that's an incredibly bold claim. Are you that good at picking out scum, because I got a townie vibe so it is quite shocking for me to see someone so certain. Maybe I am being too sure of things I shouldn't be. I had him pegged as stupid Towney for the giant plan that failed due to not even reading the OP. I like to think that ROL is actually the miller so his defense of him seems like something mafia wouldn't due (sticking their neck out for someone else), especially after they apparently tried to hit last night (Missing KP and no one else claiming to have been hit).
I haven't seen you give strong arguments for his guilt though(maybe I missed it)... are you swayed by Marv's reasoning or do you have your own?
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
rastaban, gonzaw is anything but stupid.
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Point of the matter is, no one was going to agree with it, especially not the person I was asking to do it since everyone has come out against "shooting early".
My asking him to do it though, does bring out a shit ton of pressure. First of all, to gonzaw, given his stances so far, I should be appearing extremely scummy to ask him to shoot immediately and he should be all over me trying to pressure me about why I was doing something that he SHOULD be considering to be scummy.
But he doesn't. Instead he starts focusing on the SK when he SHOULD be focusing on mafia. "RoL is SK, no wait, WBG is SK." He's not responding back to my asking him to shoot; in fact he's taken a passive stance to it "I will only shoot if everyone wants me to". Given what he had said previously (and his play in previous games), he SHOULD be acting like zentor, but instead he's backing away from my pressure.
Well I'm turning on the full pressure now. Gonzaw, you can shoot me if you want, let's see it. Or do you want to say you don't think I'm scummy?
The beautiful thing about this game is that everyone can act on their reads if they want. That means mafia can't just go off making cases against people because in the end, they would be forced to back it up (shoot). That puts a lot of restrictions on mafia. Townies however, don't have that restriction; to be sure, townies are somewhat restricted but they are not as restricted as mafia. So to pressure them to shoot their suspicions, is one very good way to catch mafia. If they can't respond, then they're mafia since they can't shoot.
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On June 13 2012 00:25 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 00:24 chaoser wrote:On June 13 2012 00:01 MrZentor wrote:
Do you agree that Chaoser is scummy? I'm ok with gonzaw shooting me right now. why are you ok with that?
Cause I think he's mafia.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
Someone remind me why we want to give mafia a chance to shoot people instead of just shooting them
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Because 3/4 times mafia can't shoot, confirming they're either mafia or a blue role.
*Assuming we're correct about the 1 godfather thing
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On June 13 2012 00:43 marvellosity wrote:
Someone remind me why we want to give mafia a chance to shoot people instead of just shooting them
cause mafia can't shoot in the day unless they're the GF. I don't think gonzaw is a GF if he's mafia because in his first post he tries to push the responsibility of the first day's kill to the miller.
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On June 13 2012 00:48 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 00:43 marvellosity wrote:
Someone remind me why we want to give mafia a chance to shoot people instead of just shooting them cause mafia can't shoot in the day unless they're the GF. I don't think gonzaw is a GF if he's mafia because in his first post he tries to push the responsibility of the first day's kill to the miller.
But imagine this right. We're in a normal majority lynch game. We get enough votes to lynch that player. But there's a special function where a player can request mod-confirmation that he's EITHER gf/vt etc or goon/cop/medic. And that the way the mods confirmed that was by either killing or not killing the 2nd guy on the lynch list, who didn't have nearly as many votes as the scummy guy at the top.
Rather just kill the guy who got all the lynch votes right? Given he has all the votes (or for this game, everyone thinks someone is likely scum) then he should just be lynched.
Over complication.
Someone is scum? Shoot them!
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If he was the GF, the strongest play he could make is to say, "I volunteer myself to make the first kill of the game, direct me town and I will shoot. I'm either townie or I'm GF and if I'm GF I will be restricted in my actions because all of you will be focused on me for the rest of the game to see if I'm GF or not"
And then he just plays his regular game that he played in Liar's Game and he'd probably get far enough with his "towncred" to fuck town over.
but instead he plays a passive game (I will make plans about other people shooting, I will focus on the SK and not the mafia) meaning if he's mafia then he's not GF.
Notice how he's ok with the idea that SK didn't shoot last night (which puts SK in a horrible position for day as he would HAVE to be the one shooting or he's modkilled) but he's not ok with the idea that mafia didn't shoot (I suggest this in a post to probe his reaction) because it "doesn't make sense". Both non-kills don't make sense but he immediately jumps on this idea of SK and then focuses on it solely (After N0 ended, the majority of his posts with "substance" is focused on the issue of finding the SK) and doesn't really pay much attention to finding mafia when my two main posts (gonzaw should shoot RIGHT NOW and mafia didn't shoot last night) are ignored even though I'm sure most people reading those two posts, had they been directed at them would have thought them weird and would have been more forceful in their replies back to me.
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But how can you distinguish between him being a blue who can't shoot and a regular goon? You cannot. The only way you can tell is by analysing him in the first place, and by doing that we come to the decision he's scum.
So just shoot him. See what I'm saying?
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On June 13 2012 00:58 marvellosity wrote:
But how can you distinguish between him being a blue who can't shoot and a regular goon? You cannot. The only way you can tell is by analysing him in the first place, and by doing that we come to the decision he's scum.
So just shoot him. See what I'm saying?
Given his posting, he's definitely not a blue since he keeps saying "I'll shoot if everyone wants me to, etc. etc.". He's basically pushing the issue off while trying to get town to focus on the SK (by talking about if RoL is it or WBG is it). If town bites on the SK bit and shoots one of them then day ends and he gets to leave another day, hopefully to disappear from the forefronts of our thoughts.
If he was blue he's just ignore the issue of shooting because he can't shoot. He's definitely not a doctor since he starts asking about missed shots when, if he was, he would know about it (since RoL said he got shot).
Given what you've written about him, do you think he's blue or mafia if he can't shoot?
I mean, marv, you think he's mafia too, you can shoot him as well. Are you too scared to do it? Can't handle the responsibility?
But if I had to be truthful and give my main reason for why I'm asking him to shoot me, it's because in this game, town gets to experience the rare pleasure of making and then watching that mafia squirm, which is a particular indulgence of mine that I don't get to experience much.
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On June 13 2012 01:07 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 00:58 marvellosity wrote:
But how can you distinguish between him being a blue who can't shoot and a regular goon? You cannot. The only way you can tell is by analysing him in the first place, and by doing that we come to the decision he's scum.
So just shoot him. See what I'm saying? Given his posting, he's definitely not a blue since he keeps saying "I'll shoot if everyone wants me to, etc. etc.". He's basically pushing the issue off while trying to get town to focus on the SK (by talking about if RoL is it or WBG is it). If town bites on the SK bit and shoots one of them then day ends and he gets to leave another day, hopefully to disappear from the forefronts of our thoughts. If he was blue he's just ignore the issue of shooting because he can't shoot. He's definitely not a doctor since he starts asking about missed shots when, if he was, he would know about it (since RoL said he got shot). Given what you've written about him, do you think he's blue or mafia if he can't shoot? I mean, marv, you think he's mafia too, you can shoot him as well. Are you too scared to do it? Can't handle the responsibility?But if I had to be truthful and give my main reason for why I'm asking him to shoot me, it's because in this game, town gets to experience the rare pleasure of making and then watching that mafia squirm, which is a particular indulgence of mine that I don't get to experience much.
To the underlined: made me chuckle, thank you
To the bold: I very much want to shoot him. I want this day to come to a conclusion by me shooting him. There's a tonne of ppl who haven't been around today yet though, so I don't want to jump the gun. Forgive the pun.
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HEY TOAD WILL YOU FINALLY STOP TALKING ABOUT THE SETUP???
I capsed this because I feel otherwise my post doesnt stand out of that mess aka thread.
Who is scum Toad?
+ I wanna talk to risk.nuke.
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I also crave the input of one risk.nuke.
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I could shoot him... What do you think VE? Is a quiet Risk.nuke suspicious?
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Anything else to say about current events VE?
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+ I want all of you to take positions. I want you to post your suspicions in red so all of us can see who you're aiming for.
In a setup like this, we have to make clear were we stand! No vote means scum can hide MUCH easier!!! They don't have to have ANY opinion if they don't want to.
We have to pressure a LOT more! I start: Toadesstern is suspicious, because he talks a lot and has no opinion on any player so far! Hasn't even an opinion about me?!
Except gonzaw (and this guy is talking too much. I am definetely not reading all of this again later -_-)
***and I remember that annulgame. I caught you day1. Was shot and facepalmed in the ObsQT and our PMs.
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RoL, fix your formatting, and aim at yourself or someone scummy instead of someone looking good right now. If you don't, I'll shoot you.
On June 12 2012 15:00 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 14:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On June 12 2012 14:19 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On June 12 2012 13:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
Had your gun taken away? Is that real? Did you just say that?
:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Yeah, interesting though. So the mafia have additional powers to take away a gun. Although this is interesting. If the mafia have the power to take away my gun why would they do that while trying to kill me? Someone tried to kill me and someone tried to take my gun. I can see why the SK would have that power, he is bulletproof at night but needs a way to survive day hits as well so that is definitely a possibility. I find it interesting that the SK would use that power on me since he needs as many people to die as fast as possible and taking my gun would just make me look a bit guilty. The only way that would make sense is if my first accusation was right and toad was the SK. That is essentially the purpose of that power. On the same note that would make the SK really powerful, but the set up makes him really weak to day shooting. I would say that would make up for the SK's shortcomings in the current set up so it is probably the most likely. On the otherhand the mafia has 4 members and I'm sure that could be a power that is functionally a day RB. You claimed Miller. People wanted millers to shoot first to prove they're a miller. If they take your gun away, it makes you look like scum because you can't shoot. Or, you're faking someone taking your gun away because you're scum who fake-claimed Miller. The hit could be a fake, or maybe a medic protected you and SK shot you. There's lots of possibilities here. I'm not taking your claim at face-value. Would you mind typing shoot into the thread so that we know you actually don't have a weapon? That at least tells us you aren't a lying town or scum that can shoot. Also VE, you never responded at all to my FOS. Not in the mood?  Sorry Wiggles, but this is interesting stuff. You are suspicious of me because....you think it's better for town to choose the shot targets, yes? Can I assume that you've noticed that I'm now voicing my consent to target gonzaw today and that's why you're even talking to me rather than just writing me off as scum? Honestly I'd forgotten that you even said anything because my thinking has radically shifted in that regard. When I said that, I wasn't realizing that the people taking shots are more than likely town anyway statistically, so it makes sense for town to aim them. Sorry man, it takes a second for me to wrap my head around mechanics Suspicious because you were pushing something that's anti-town, yeah. I was just surprised that you completely ignored it.
I don't think Gonzaw looks very good right now. I don't like how he's completely focused on himself and his defense and not actually trying to find mafia (not just SK). It's Day 1, so any defense of yourself can't be that comprehensive, because all you can do is defend your posting or point to meta reasons. You can't actually show what you've done in the game that makes you not scum. So, that makes just focusing on finding scum the better thing to do. If you don't want town to kill you, find a better target.
I think the best plan right now though, would be to find a second target, and then either make that person shoot gonzaw, or have gonzaw shoot that person depending on who's scummier. I don't have one in mind right now though, unless RoL refuses to prove he's not lying at least. I need to re-read.
So yeah, if RoL doesn't prove he's not lying, I'm shooting him or making Gonzaw do it. If you're a miller and self-aware, I assume we still think it's a good idea to claim, so do it. Gonzaw, instead of making ineffectual defenses, tell me who you think is mafia.
That's all for now.
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On June 13 2012 01:36 supersoft wrote:
+ I want all of you to take positions. I want you to post your suspicions in red so all of us can see who you're aiming for.
In a setup like this, we have to make clear were we stand! No vote means scum can hide MUCH easier!!! They don't have to have ANY opinion if they don't want to.
We have to pressure a LOT more! I start: Toadesstern is suspicious, because he talks a lot and has no opinion on any player so far! Hasn't even an opinion about me?!
Except gonzaw (and this guy is talking too much. I am definetely not reading all of this again later -_-)
***and I remember that annulgame. I caught you day1. Was shot and facepalmed in the ObsQT and our PMs.
yeah but ever after that annul game you thought I'm mafia every game we played
I already said I think that RoL's claim is stupid to a point that I thought it's got to be a fakeclaim because a townie would not just ignore what Kita, I myself and pretty much everyone else said about an too early claim and that it has no advantages while giving town disadvantages.
Not sure what to make of RoL and I would have LOVER to see him shoot gonzaw if it weren't for is missing gun... Not really sure if I want to believe that but we can leave him be so long.
Gonzaw is my #1 read as well and I already stated why. I also answered a bunch of questions when being asked about other players (like you). I'm sorry I haven't figured out 4/4 mafia yet. I'll keep on working on that one though.
So far I'd like WBG to shoot gonzaw.
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EPT
