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Hong Kong9145 Posts
On April 03 2012 14:02 Raithed wrote:
Just a question, as far as mechanical keyboards go, which is the best for the bang for the buck? Thanks for the recs!
There is an entire thread devoted to this question here on TL:
The Mechanical Keyboard Guide
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=260143
To add my subjective input, I recently bought a Unicomp buckling spring keyboard because 'gaming' mechanicals felt cheap and overpriced and I preferred the feel of buckling spring over Cherry Blues.
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If you're looking into getting your first mechanical keyboard, I'd recommend a Razer Blackwidow as a starting point. They're really cheap if you get em on sale. I grabbed mine for ~$60 on a sale from Dell. It's currently on sale for $70 on Amazon. You might want to look into what switches you like; I liked this resource from Geekhack. The Blackwidow has blues. They're my personal favorite but I've only tried browns and blues. I love how the switches feel. The tactile feedback and sound is so pleasing.
In terms of mice, I use a palm grip. I'm also a Razer fan. If you're really starting to look into mice, I'd recommend using the Razer guide to see what grip you use and what mice shapes your grip conforms to. I'm currently using a Razer Imperator. But I just bought a Razer Abyssus as a back up. I'm not sure what you're looking for in a mouse so I can just give you my opinions on the mice I've tried. I've got small hands so I'm pretty picky. The Imperator is ergonomic but it has a large hump and 7 buttons. The Abyssus is simpler and lighter; only 3 buttons. It's not ergonomic, but fits in my hand really nice. Abyssus is on sale at the moment on Amazon for $30. If you can find it, the Razer Krait is really nice. I've tried the DeathAdder, which seems to be the most popular Razer mouse, but again I have small hands and it didn't feel as nice.
If you're anti-Razer, hold out for the SteelSeries Sensei raw. It's everything good about the Sensei without the onboard processor and ridiculous color options. AKA, it'll be way cheaper. I believe it's shape is the same as the classic Microsoft Intellimouse.
If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to give my opinion.
Edit: The link that itsjustatank posted is so good. If you really wanna get a feel of what keyboards are out there and how they perform, take the time to read through the thread.
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As for keyboards, I've used both Razer Blackwidow Ultimate and now I use a G6v2. I would recommend the G6v2, simply because it's much cheaper and seems to be a bit higher quality in the sense that blackwidow has a tendency to break easily. The G6v2 is more compact. I slightly prefer blue switches, but the black ones actually feel very nice when you get used to them and it doesn't sound like a thunderstorm of shutting mousetraps when you play using it.
Mousewise, I use a Razer Mamba. It feels fantastic and works really well, but again, Razers quality comes into question. My side button to lower DPI got bad after just 2-3 months of use and is now very stiff (though it still works), and some of the plastic on the left side is starting to fall off because the glue isn't holding it. I'd say it's a great mouse, but it's a bit pricy for the lack of quality, though my Mamba is an older revision and those issues might be fixed by now.
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Everything really depends on your preference
In terms of mice, if you like smaller and lighter mice and don't need over 800-1000 dpi, go for the Logitech G1, Zowie Mico or the Roccat Pyra(wired). Need a small mouse but more dpi - Razer Abyssus is your best bet.
If you like bigger and heavier mice, go for the Razer Deathadder 3G/3.5G (this one has a flawless sensor) or the Steelseries Sensei (this one has mouse acceleration tho).
If you are not exactly sure what mouse you prefer or just want a customizable mouse, there is the Logitech G9x and the Cyborg R.A.T. 7.
Concerning the keyboard, I would always adwise to buy a mechanical keyboard with either blue or brown Cherry MX switches. The blues are clicky like a typing machine, the browns are more silent, but still tactile. In both cases, you really know when you did press the button and when you didn't.
The cheapest mechanical keyboards (in Europe) are the Cherry G80-3000 and the Razer Blackwidow. But since you are in China there should also be a number of Chinese- or Korean-made mechanical keyboards which are also pretty good.
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This guy knows whats up. I've owned both the regular DeathAdder and the Black Edition, like the Black Edition way more. The original got dirty on the glossy plastic sides often, and just generally wasn't as comfortable, my hand kinda stuck to it after a while (I don't sweat or anything like that, I'm not one of those guys who has grimy ass console controllers, this was a problem I had specifically with the DeathAdder's glossy side surface).
As for the keyboard, I'd recommend the Das Professional, nothing but good things to say about it. It's hard to find a way to see which switch type you like before purchasing, so I suppose you'll just have to guess which you like, since its largely preference. I prefer cherry browns (I'd imagine I'd like reds even more, but they seem to be very elusive). If you plan on buying a Steelseries board, make sure you look at the key layout (or generally just do that anyway), Steelseries keyboards generally have that shitty little backspace key and the giant enter key.
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On April 03 2012 13:39 mrafaeldie12 wrote:
Don't get a "mechanical" keyboard, they're lousy and the "feeling of pressing a key" like most people like to say is just a gimmick, to make you a buy a often times more expensive keyboard. I personally use a Razer Lachesis mouse, and a very cheap PS/2 keyboard. The only thing I dislike about my setup, is how easy my Lachesis top can get dirty, it gets some weird spots that look odd, but its a damn fine mouse.
Lousy??? Have you tired one??? Typing on one is so much better than rubber dome. They also last much longer than normal keyboards so even if they feel is like you saw a gimmick they length of time it lasts is well worth the investment.
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On April 03 2012 14:02 Raithed wrote:
Just a question, as far as mechanical keyboards go, which is the best for the bang for the buck? Thanks for the recs!
PM me and I can help you find one. Just message me what you are looking for in keyboard. (backlite, switch type, tenkeyless) I will take a look and I will see if I can help :D
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A Logitech Mini is all you need.
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im an old school gamer and like the logitech mx518 -> logitech g400
i got a ducky keyboard which was great but i didnt like the numpad and it wasn't usb->mac os compatible
then i got the elite keyboards leopold tenkeyless mx brown and i am happy with it
- smaller than the ducky and i have a huge mousepad since i play first person shooters
- brown is a pretty safe key choice since its neither really soft nor really resistant
- some keys are "mushy" but for some reason i find unseating them then putting them back on fixes it pretty decently
i think unless you play some really macro based mmorpg like wow or other where u need a shitload of buttons then just get any mechanical keyboard and you will be pretty satisfied - to be safe go with mx brown until you have experience with mechanical keyboards, and be aware of the size you want
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Weren't you banned Raithed?
Anyway I would like to +1 the Logitech G1 and -1 the Razer Abyssus. I have had the Abyssus for a little over a year and the mouse wheel is already messed up and jittery. By contrast I have had the G1 almost twice as long and it's still perfectly fine. IMHO Razer is a cult company like apple and alienware that makes overpriced products. Logitech makes quality products.
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I play with the cheapest Logitech kbd+mouse I could find and for RTS it's been quite fine so far.
The only problem I ever got was that because I would pull and twist my mouse cable quite a lot during some period, because I was stupid, eventually the cable started having problems not making clear contact. And even then I solved it without buying a new mouse even though it only costs a couple of bucks. I opened the mouse and rearranged the cable inside to make contact permanently and pulled more cable inside around the edge, then closed the mouse tight and never had problems since.
Especially in the early years of BW the gosu pro's would basically play with similar cheap devices which didn't make them less gosu. Today's standards are so good that the cheapest equipment is quite sufficient for RTS.
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I use the deathadder and it's really good.
For keyboards I recommend the Noppoo choc mini, switching caps lock and control around is great! And the compact size is a plus aswel.
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On April 03 2012 13:39 mrafaeldie12 wrote:
Don't get a "mechanical" keyboard, they're lousy and the "feeling of pressing a key" like most people like to say is just a gimmick, to make you a buy a often times more expensive keyboard. I personally use a Razer Lachesis mouse, and a very cheap PS/2 keyboard. The only thing I dislike about my setup, is how easy my Lachesis top can get dirty, it gets some weird spots that look odd, but its a damn fine mouse.
Well everyone who has used my Filco Majestouch MX blue has absolutely loved the feel of the keys. So if its a gimmick, its a damn good one. Me personally, ill never go back to a regular keyboard.
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On April 03 2012 13:39 mrafaeldie12 wrote:
Don't get a "mechanical" keyboard, they're lousy and the "feeling of pressing a key" like most people like to say is just a gimmick, to make you a buy a often times more expensive keyboard. I personally use a Razer Lachesis mouse, and a very cheap PS/2 keyboard. The only thing I dislike about my setup, is how easy my Lachesis top can get dirty, it gets some weird spots that look odd, but its a damn fine mouse.
Lol what a load of bull. I use both types of keyboard extensively and my only regret is that I use both types of keyboards. If it wasn't for the noise I'd buy a mechanical for use at work. For gaming the mechanical switches can be a bit of a gimmick in that you bottom out the keys anyways, but the lighter activation can help with finger fatigue. For normal typing the comparison is well not even close. Mechanicals are awesome for typing because you can use a light touch and small activation to type quickly and with less effort, by comparison a membrane keyboard (especially a stiffer one) feels like a chore.
No one can really recommend a mouse and have it be meaningful. The ideal mouse depends a lot on what you want. When I was buying my mouse I wanted a slim profile, light weight, and didn't care about 4th or 5th buttons (a great setup for SC2 if you ever play at LANs and stuff) so I ended up with the Abyssus and it's great other than the damn LED that's always on.
Basically any Razer or Steel Series mouse should be at least decent, then there are some others like the mx518 or some of the less well known brands that might be ok (just check online reviews first). Either way the first step is to figure out what you want and how you hold the mouse.
Especially in the early years of BW the gosu pro's would basically play with similar cheap devices which didn't make them less gosu. Today's standards are so good that the cheapest equipment is quite sufficient for RTS.
BW isn't the best comparison because it runs at a low resolution so the benefits of a higher DPI mouse aren't as significant.
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United States22883 Posts
On April 03 2012 23:48 Logo wrote:
Basically any Razer or Steel Series mouse should be at least decent
That's really not true.
There's a set list of a dozen mice people should choose from, depending on what size their hand is, how many buttons they want and how they hold the mouse. A lot of crap that Razer and SteelSeries make like the Imperator and Kinzu are crap and should be avoided, because they cost more or provide less than the mice in that list.
The problem is that any time people make threads about mice, they don't provide any useful information about how they use a mouse. They just say "tell me what to get?!" which generates discussions as in depth and useful as on Yahoo Answers! ie. completely unhelpful. The problem is that most buyers feel a strong desire to defend their purchase, without doing proper research about it or its competitors, so we get a whole bunch of "this is what I got and teh best!"
DeathAdder
Abyssus
Xai
G9x/G500
G400/MX518
G300
Zowie EC1/2
Mico
AM
CM Storm Spawn
Roccat Kova+
There's a few others from Mionix and the like not on that list, but basically after you choose shape/buttons, there's only 4 or so mouse sensors worth considering. Razer's laser mice are crap, and the Sensei is an overpriced Xai with useless drivers and worse grip. That list should accommodate 99% of gamers.
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I think I am sold with the Razor DeathAdder black, but as far as mechanical keyboards go, I still have to go over reviews and such as I am not sold yet although people are advocating SteelSeries a lot.
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The only issue with the SteelSeries keyboard is that the keys are laid out weird due to the L shaped enter key. If you're all right with that layout they by all means try it. But I can't stand it so I could never get a 6VG2.
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On April 03 2012 23:59 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 23:48 Logo wrote:
Basically any Razer or Steel Series mouse should be at least decent That's really not true. There's a set list of a dozen mice people should choose from, depending on what size their hand is, how many buttons they want and how they hold the mouse. A lot of crap that Razer and SteelSeries make like the Imperator and Kinzu are crap and should be avoided, because they cost more or provide less than the mice in that list. The problem is that any time people make threads about mice, they don't provide any useful information about how they use a mouse. They just say "tell me what to get?!" which generates discussions as in depth and useful as on Yahoo Answers! ie. completely unhelpful. The problem is that most buyers feel a strong desire to defend their purchase, without doing proper research about it or its competitors, so we get a whole bunch of "this is what I got and teh best!" DeathAdder Abyssus Xai G9x/G500 G400/MX518 G300 Zowie EC1/2 Mico AM CM Storm Spawn Roccat Kova+ There's a few others from Mionix and the like not on that list, but basically after you choose shape/buttons, there's only 4 or so mouse sensors worth considering. Razer's laser mice are crap, and the Sensei is an overpriced Xai with useless drivers and worse grip. That list should accommodate 99% of gamers.
I use a Kinzu and all my friends who tried it have gotten ones themselves.
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Here's a good Razer biased guide to mice.
http://www.razerzone.com/mouseguide
Here's Overclock.net's, which should be better and less biased. Still, read both.
http://www.overclock.net/t/951894/the-truthful-mouse-guide
Read through it, then apply that knowledge to whatever mouse you see online. Look at mouse size, hand size, mouse weight, optimal surfaces, and more. Then try that mouse out at a store if possible since most of them have a little cutout. Check reviews for product reliability, not brand reliability. Check out return and exchange policies, then buy, try and return if you're not satisfied. Make sure you break in the product over a period of time, and look online for solutions to problems you may encounter that aren't due to product failure.
Good companies make bad products. Bad companies make good products. It's life. Stop fanboying and get the best thing for you, not suggestions from personal experience. Only way to do that is trial and error, experience, and research.
Mechanical keyboards are better in terms of reliability, quality and consistency. They're more expensive, so they're mostly of good or better quality than average, and more reliable.
The chief advantage is consistency. When you type on membranes, the membrane gets worn out faster on keys used more often, like the spacebar or wasd or e keys. Mechanical switches guarantee a much longer lifespan on every key, so every key feels the same. They also let you customize the feeling from pressing so you can optimize how you want to type. For example, if you only bottom out, it's good to look at Linear switches, whereas if you want to touch type really well like good typists do, you'll prefer a very Tactile switch.
As a side note. Personal reviews are shit and useless. Strip the useless information from them and take the facts. Then apply it to yourself. Trust fair sources, not reviews sponsored by the company, or given products for free, and not reviews from people with limited experience or quote personal experience. And don't even trust the fair sources completely.
Before me, Arterial said:
I use a Kinzu and all my friends who tried it have gotten ones themselves.
That's completely useless information. What else have his friends tried? How many friends did he recommend? What's their hand size, and mouse preference? Has Arterial used other mice? Research Kinzu. Does the Kinzu have mouse acceleration? Trust company or community?
Interesting stuff. Mouse acceleration is fine as long as you know what you're getting, and you enjoy the mouse (and you're not hardcore fps). Mouse acceleration is not fine if you're trying to cover up what it actually does. Props for SteelSeries here.
Not bashing Arterial. Showing what mindset you have to be entering these kinds of threads and weeding through comments.
Another before me, Artifice says:
...my hand kinda stuck to it after a while (I don't sweat or anything like that, I'm not one of those guys who has grimy ass console controllers, this was a problem I had specifically with the DeathAdder's glossy side surface).
I sweat a lot. I don't sweat at other times. I'm anally clean. I have no issues with my hand sticking to the DeathAdder after long gaming sessions. Completely contrary to his. It only influences you depending on which review you read first. Strip the facts. You get that you should look at the Black Edition as well.
Only trust your own opinion.
Be a better buyer. lol
Good luck.
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United States22883 Posts
On April 04 2012 17:28 Arterial wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2012 23:59 Jibba wrote:On April 03 2012 23:48 Logo wrote:
Basically any Razer or Steel Series mouse should be at least decent That's really not true. There's a set list of a dozen mice people should choose from, depending on what size their hand is, how many buttons they want and how they hold the mouse. A lot of crap that Razer and SteelSeries make like the Imperator and Kinzu are crap and should be avoided, because they cost more or provide less than the mice in that list. The problem is that any time people make threads about mice, they don't provide any useful information about how they use a mouse. They just say "tell me what to get?!" which generates discussions as in depth and useful as on Yahoo Answers! ie. completely unhelpful. The problem is that most buyers feel a strong desire to defend their purchase, without doing proper research about it or its competitors, so we get a whole bunch of "this is what I got and teh best!" DeathAdder Abyssus Xai G9x/G500 G400/MX518 G300 Zowie EC1/2 Mico AM CM Storm Spawn Roccat Kova+ There's a few others from Mionix and the like not on that list, but basically after you choose shape/buttons, there's only 4 or so mouse sensors worth considering. Razer's laser mice are crap, and the Sensei is an overpriced Xai with useless drivers and worse grip. That list should accommodate 99% of gamers. I use a Kinzu and all my friends who tried it have gotten ones themselves.
That's not a defense of its fairly major sensor flaws. This is exactly the type of post I'm talking about. :/
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EPT
