EPTThe Sum of All Fears Mafia - Page 48
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
I really hope you guys know what you are doing. Also I'd like someone to shoot Bluelightz, based on his constant fixation on lynching cccalf, and not doing anything much else. A read of his filter is probably the best way to do it. I've pulled a couple of em which also have some strange undertones. On March 28 2012 08:29 Bluelightz wrote: herp derp, I feel that the CC argument is stronger ##Unvote ##Vote: Cyber_Cheese EchelonTee looks townie, he has substance unlike say, cccalf? Here he soft defends ET and simultaneously accuses cccalf, all while voting CC. Was the second clause necessary? Is the line of thinking really 'ET can't be scum because cccalf is so much more scummy'? "ET looks town because he has substance" is reasonable. "ET looks town because he has more substance than cccalf" is quite dubious, especially as he isn't forthright pushing a cccalf lynch, but merely commenting on it as he votes CC. On March 30 2012 10:38 Bluelightz wrote: I can see why Sinensis is scummy, he has posted usseless questions, he also has shared his reads, etc, though. But today, I believe cccalf is the better choice for Lynching. Not a solid stance on Sinensis. He "can see why Sinensis is scummy", but what is his actual stance? Its very neutral. Very much so. And then he offers cccalf as a lynch alternative again. He isn't trying to decide if Sinensis is scum based on his actions. His thought process again is "Sinensis could be scum, but I think cccalf is scum so I'm going with that". Seriously, why is he forgoing all discussion for the sake of lynching cccalf on the basis that he hasn't posted anything? Why is he acting like cccalf is the only scum, the very standard of scum and that if people look better than him they must be town? I'd recommend shooting Bluelightz. Read for yourself - you don't have to post. I'm pretty sure according to raw balance we have a vig or something, but I'm guessing it could be a conditional thing. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
There is a SU one and a US one, and both of them have to target the same guy to make a kill. In which case, if there is a US/SU vig, shoot Blue. We don't want the SU one shooting him but the US one not, and viceversa. C_C's case wasn't that good, here is mine: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322686¤tpage=21#407 I don't have much to add to this case, considering Blue didn't do anything worthwhile since D1 (just check his filter) Here is something I haven't noticed before: On March 28 2012 14:06 Sinensis wrote: Every game I have played with Bluelightz this happens. I would go so far as to say voting for Bluelightz day 1 is a scum tell on TL mafia. On March 31 2012 13:44 Sinensis wrote: Look. There are 7 votes for zentor. So unless me and/or Bluelightz are scum, which for the sake of this argument we are not, then there are three scum voting for MrZentor right now. Would mafia vote for mafia? On April 01 2012 14:55 Sinensis wrote: The votes have been so bad there is absolutely no way to get an alignment read on anyone. I am pretty sure Bluelightz is town, and I am pretty sure cccalf was noob mafia. That's it. Everything else is so beyond screwed up there is no sense to be made out of anyone. At this point johnnywup, Nemesis, and gonzaw could easily be scum too. Who the f knows. Seriously? Both tried VERY HARD to get cccalf killed, avoided ALL other disscussion, and either defend themselves without any justification(Sin->Blue), or are completely wishy washy regarding the other (Blue->Sin) This is the plan then: -Vig shoot Blue tonight -We lynch Sinensis tomorrow. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
This one I'd be especially wary of - EchelonTee This is a combination of some underhanded accusations here and there, general lack of scumhunting and interactions with Bluelightz and Sinensis. + Show Spoiler [Soft accusations:] + On March 28 2012 06:31 EchelonTee wrote: response to ppls about my posting: 1. after I tanked hard in my last town game trying to play "serious aggresive asshole town leader", i'm looking for a new, hopefully less fail-whale town playstyle and you guys are the lucky testing grounds. problem? I'm being way more clear with my "weird wording" than you and you big posts. 2. uhhh you didn't really comment anything about me at all lol. all you did was list a bunch of my posts, noting that one of them was more crAAAzy than the others. however the content of that post is part of an ongoing line of thought on BH. just b/c i posted a gif doesn't make my arguements erratic. It's also really suspect that you say "I'll let somebody else decide". TAKE A STANCE, BE A MAN 3. so essentially you're saying that my play this game is different from my scum play and my town play. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/35/CaptainObvious.jpg) if my posting starts sowing chaos or makes me sound unclear go ahead and call me out brudder, but at the moment your logic don't make sense. On March 30 2012 14:45 EchelonTee wrote: are u actively trying to not read my post? I said who nisani is; posts 1 liners. thus it's easy to pin players like that as scummy b/c they look like they're lurking and being evasive, but u have to look at the big picture. being "unspported" or "supported with very questionable strcutres" is stupid, stupid semantics as usual. Either way, it's a VOTE that one way or another LACKS ADEQUATE SUPPORT. is there any reason you lurked all D1? i almost forgot you were playing, which is fcking weird for you. He has not followed up on any of these - he is willing to call it (or subtly suggest) that it is bad play, but he never once concludes that it could be a scumtell. Just bad play. No follow up. Just really soft pressure. + Show Spoiler [Unwilling to scumhunt] + There are several times that ET does not wish to discuss certain topics or reads for nonsense ideals such as "keeping the thread clean" On March 29 2012 07:24 EchelonTee wrote: ET's mini guide to the nighttime: 1. don't call people town they'll die 2. don't out yourself as a blue you'll die 3. if you think you'll die post your scum reads before deadline. preferrably right before What does this ultimately suggest we do? No discussion at night. Don't try clearing anyone's name, because mafia will shoot them. Lets only talk about how scummy people are. He is promoting a scum-agenda - a night full of only accusations is ideal for sowing distrust and chaos. On March 30 2012 14:38 EchelonTee wrote: they're not on deck to be lynched; i'm not in mood for a cluttered thread. we already have C3, Sinensis, and MrZ as potentials and the fact that i want to talk about them over gonzaw and bluelightz should clue you in to who i think is most scummy at this point. AKA i'm not going to post a list of reads, sloosh. Why does he not want to give out reads on gonzaw and bluelightz? He has already commented that he thinks gonzaw is scummy, but he doesn't want us to talk about him as a candidate? Isn't it convenient that he doesn't have to comment on bluelightz here either, for an invisible "lets keep thread clean" ideal? It was only 7 hours into the day and suddenly asking for his reads will lead to a messy thread? He thinks gonzaw is scum, but won't give his read on him - a fake cover up so he doesn't have to out bluelightz. On March 30 2012 07:03 EchelonTee wrote: WHAT THE FACK AHHHHHHHHHHHHH On March 30 2012 08:00 EchelonTee wrote: my reaction to day post+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://holeleesheet.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/wtf.gif?w=535) i was so sure of a VE+jwup scum partnership.... WIFOM mode engage: killing VE is the last thing a scum jwup would want to do; ve was one of his only supporters. mr. wup going on the backburner personally In an 1 hr time span he finds a picture and then decides the best thing to do is WIFOM. This speaks for itself. I'd also recommend pulling up his filter along side Sinensis' and Bluelightz' to see how many times they soft defend each other, and that their "interactions" are very friendly and safe questions / fake (as is the "fight" between Sinensis and Bluelightz where they comment on each other's lurking but never do anything with that). | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
I also expect an explosion of activity from mafia D3 - depending on how the night plays out they will make up roughly under half of town. Also I'd caution fake claims. Mafia probably will only require 1 mislynch - be very wary of fake claims. I wont be here for daybreak. I posted all my reads. Let's do this guys. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
The thing is that we need to be VERY careful right now. We can't start spouting whole scumteams at this moment, since only 1 of them needs to be town for us to lose. Check what happened on Newbie IV, everybody started posting whole scumteams, which were wrong, making the townies in those think the ones that posted were scum, and basicly losing town the game. I think we need to focus on Sinensis (once Blue is vigged hopefully), and see how other people react to it. Remember that scum win with only 1 misslynch, so they might as well try their hardest to make that misslynch tomorrow. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
I'd check out ET with (hopefully) a bluelightz flip tonight. I wouldn't totally rule out a full out bus either - they can afford to lose a couple of members if it buys them enough time to fulfill the other wincon. Basically it would be best to solidify reads tonight before daybreak so that they can't WIFOM or do whatever like that. p.s. Happy birthday Hassybaby! | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Although I think that if a SU flips tonight, we have practically lost >_> p.s Happy birthday too! | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
The thing is that if it's a SU, then it's almost impossible that we can win, EVEN if we successfully lynch all scum. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
PREAMBLE: If you wish to dispute any points I make, do not argue 'But froggy some of these points apply to you too'. Rather say 'froggy, you are wrong because either 1. your logic is wrong because of X and Y or 2. Your evidence is flawed because of Z. Dismissing anything I write because you think I'm scum is a scum move i.e. OMGUS-ing, unless you can back it up by 1. or 2. I present to you my strongest of three scum-reads (in order of conviction): I. Bluelights (or lurking the Nazi way) As opposed to 3C (who we have no info on), BL has been posting the absolute minimum, enough to appear less scummy than 3C (or at least more active), and, lets be honest, with VE/BH Day 1 townie-induced chaos and Mr Z's Day 2 townie induced-chaos Mafia had no reason to post anything risky (i.e. sowing the seeds of discord themselves... as we were doing that ourselves). His first post of content was this: Reads, Reads! Blazinghand ---> Catapaulted to very sure is townie from his recent posting(Active, Pressuring people, etc) and being funny and awesome in starcraft ^_^ Some random summaries MrZentor --> Has been following Discussion, has not provided any reads, I'd love some reads from him. gonzaw --> Has followed discussion, setup speculation, I'd love some reads and more content from him . ET --> Townie, has followed discussion pressed people to post, preety townie C_C ---> Needs to step up, he has nothing of substance, has not taken a stance on anything yet, I want reads, willing to lynch depending on what he post's next. About as sheepish as it gets, posting who he thinks is townie, thus appearing to be pro-town but in fact contributing nothing. Don't get me wrong, knowing who you think is town is good, but if that is all you contribute then town is not going to win. HIs reads are also oddly certain, it seems like an easy scum move to post who you know is town, so that when they flip you can go 'hey see how townie I am!'. As town, and that early on there was no way making such 'certain' town reads. All his next posts throughout day 1 are 'who he thinks is town' posts. Absolutely useless day 1. Gives no content and adds nothing. He then sheeps on ET, proceeds to sheeps C_C (ok... we all did so not a factor) and says that actually he thinks ET is town (wtf). Day 2 he posts this: If you guys would like to lynch gonzaw, that would be fine with me, Ill change my vote asap if you guys do want to. Some more reads, I think that Nemesis is town, he has been following discussion, not lurking, has provided reason for his vote on Cyber_Cheese. Wtf! Thats not even sheeping whilst agreeing with someone's case (something we all pretty much did Day 1), its unconditional sheeping. This IMHO is the scummiest post I've seen so far. He then proceeds to want to kill 3C for lurking, an easy lynch to bandwagon, whether 3C is town or scum. The rest of his posts are oneliners. Part 2 to follow... (in an hour or so, giving people enough time to respond appropriately; I don't like multi-case posts) | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5202 Posts
On April 01 2012 15:56 zelblade wrote: I agree with sloosh that DYH is probably town. On April 01 2012 15:45 slOosh wrote: p.s. DYH probably townie seeing how D2 unfolded. If cccalf was mafia I'd expect more effort rallying people around MrZentor early in the day when we were discussing possible candidates. Rather, it is quite the opposite with people (of whom Sinensis is included) who suggested and prodded cccalf into the spotlight as an alternative candidate. There is absolutely no reason to think DYH is townie; what sloosh is saying is pure WIFOM; you realize that you rallied people around MrZentor, which corroborates your idea that if cccalf is mafia, they would want to push towards MrZ? What if you're Mafia, mr sloosh? now we're in a situation where we have absolutely no information on cccalf and he is going to be alive in LYLO for the rest of the game. joy. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5202 Posts
On April 02 2012 04:00 slOosh wrote: And since I'm busting these things out might as well post my 3rd. This one I'd be especially wary of - EchelonTee This is a combination of some underhanded accusations here and there, general lack of scumhunting and interactions with Bluelightz and Sinensis. + Show Spoiler [Soft accusations  +On March 28 2012 06:31 EchelonTee wrote: response to ppls about my posting: 1. after I tanked hard in my last town game trying to play "serious aggresive asshole town leader", i'm looking for a new, hopefully less fail-whale town playstyle and you guys are the lucky testing grounds. problem? I'm being way more clear with my "weird wording" than you and you big posts. 2. uhhh you didn't really comment anything about me at all lol. all you did was list a bunch of my posts, noting that one of them was more crAAAzy than the others. however the content of that post is part of an ongoing line of thought on BH. just b/c i posted a gif doesn't make my arguements erratic. It's also really suspect that you say "I'll let somebody else decide". TAKE A STANCE, BE A MAN 3. so essentially you're saying that my play this game is different from my scum play and my town play. + Show Spoiler + if my posting starts sowing chaos or makes me sound unclear go ahead and call me out brudder, but at the moment your logic don't make sense. On March 30 2012 14:45 EchelonTee wrote: are u actively trying to not read my post? I said who nisani is; posts 1 liners. thus it's easy to pin players like that as scummy b/c they look like they're lurking and being evasive, but u have to look at the big picture. being "unspported" or "supported with very questionable strcutres" is stupid, stupid semantics as usual. Either way, it's a VOTE that one way or another LACKS ADEQUATE SUPPORT. is there any reason you lurked all D1? i almost forgot you were playing, which is fcking weird for you. He has not followed up on any of these - he is willing to call it (or subtly suggest) that it is bad play, but he never once concludes that it could be a scumtell. Just bad play. No follow up. Just really soft pressure. + Show Spoiler [Unwilling to scumhunt] + There are several times that ET does not wish to discuss certain topics or reads for nonsense ideals such as "keeping the thread clean" On March 29 2012 07:24 EchelonTee wrote: ET's mini guide to the nighttime: 1. don't call people town they'll die 2. don't out yourself as a blue you'll die 3. if you think you'll die post your scum reads before deadline. preferrably right before What does this ultimately suggest we do? No discussion at night. Don't try clearing anyone's name, because mafia will shoot them. Lets only talk about how scummy people are. He is promoting a scum-agenda - a night full of only accusations is ideal for sowing distrust and chaos. On March 30 2012 14:38 EchelonTee wrote: they're not on deck to be lynched; i'm not in mood for a cluttered thread. we already have C3, Sinensis, and MrZ as potentials and the fact that i want to talk about them over gonzaw and bluelightz should clue you in to who i think is most scummy at this point. AKA i'm not going to post a list of reads, sloosh. Why does he not want to give out reads on gonzaw and bluelightz? He has already commented that he thinks gonzaw is scummy, but he doesn't want us to talk about him as a candidate? Isn't it convenient that he doesn't have to comment on bluelightz here either, for an invisible "lets keep thread clean" ideal? It was only 7 hours into the day and suddenly asking for his reads will lead to a messy thread? He thinks gonzaw is scum, but won't give his read on him - a fake cover up so he doesn't have to out bluelightz. On March 30 2012 07:03 EchelonTee wrote: WHAT THE FACK AHHHHHHHHHHHHH On March 30 2012 08:00 EchelonTee wrote: my reaction to day post+ Show Spoiler + i was so sure of a VE+jwup scum partnership.... WIFOM mode engage: killing VE is the last thing a scum jwup would want to do; ve was one of his only supporters. mr. wup going on the backburner personally In an 1 hr time span he finds a picture and then decides the best thing to do is WIFOM. This speaks for itself. I'd also recommend pulling up his filter along side Sinensis' and Bluelightz' to see how many times they soft defend each other, and that their "interactions" are very friendly and safe questions / fake (as is the "fight" between Sinensis and Bluelightz where they comment on each other's lurking but never do anything with that). Your first cluster doesn't prove any scumminess at all: there is absolutely nothing with pointing out people's logic is bad. If you actually read what I bolded, you can tell that in that cluster the only person I call suspicious is MrZentor, which is where I put my vote. I call gonzaw "unclear". I don't need to follow that up, he's not my number 1 scumread. I call zelblade's logic "nonsensical". I don't need to follow that up, I was just defending myself. I say that it's weird you lurked all D1. I'm going to follow that up. I say that mr wup's post is bad. It's not a scumtell to post something dumb, I don't need to follow that up. So... yeah. Me talking to other is scummy? damn maybe i should just lurk into oblivion like our friend cccalf. Your second cluster is simply wrong. If you truly believe that giving out reads like candy is pro-town, then you are either unintentially or intentionally forgetting that game that we lost as town. Remember all those idiots posting at night "Oh I think Alderan is town!!! derpa derp". And meanwhile, I and a few other called Janaan "obvious townie" and he gets shot. It is BAD TOWN PLAY to reveal your reads until RIGHT BEFORE THE DEADLINE becuase otherwise SCUM CAN ACT ON IT!!!! It's absurd for you to say that I've been unwilling to scumhunt when your D1 contributions were nil and your D2 contributions were to tunnel MrZ. You aren't dumb, I think you're being willful in ignoring this. When discussing a lynch, the right thing to do is to focus on a handful of candidates. Want to hear my opinion of gonzaw? The fact that he writes really big posts every time means it is hard to dissect his reads. The fact that other people have acted wildly anti-town (sinensis/MrZ sigh...) means that he gets a free pass to look townie if he writes look townie for no good reason. He has also been pushing, in my opinion, townies all game. But is this hard evidence? Nope! am I willing to bet losing this game? Nope!!!! So I push people who I see as more scummy. You calling me suspicious for playing optimally isn't you being dumb; you're smarter than this. You're pulling the strings lol. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
On April 02 2012 04:49 gonzaw wrote: Ehmm, it's almost 100% sure a town will flip tonight, unless scum have mercy and No-Kill tonight. The thing is that if it's a SU, then it's almost impossible that we can win, EVEN if we successfully lynch all scum. err, i meant if theres a vig shooting | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5202 Posts
Sloosh I'm not the only one that noticed that sloosh didn't push anyone or build any cases D1 right? And he only pushed MrZ after he had already been brought up. META TIME OH NO. slOosh is one of the loudest seminewbies I know and he's very very active as both blue and green. What he's done is scum 101: 1. lurk D1 while town leaders scream at each other. 2. power a lynch through D2, somehow avoid any fallout. don't got time to flesh this out, but can SOMEONE look at the filter of the dude who pushed MrZ over? When people flip don't just ignore the traindrivers. cccalf/DYH the fact that people keep on shying away from him, and now even think he's townie??? absurd. Should've been shot N1 and now we're trapped with him til endgame. he's been scummily lurking. there's no other way to put it froggy has been contentless for most of game, doesn't have the same active tone as other people. gtg bye | ||
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
-Asking useless questions and keeps talking about useless topics(take a look at his filter) - Not scumhunting in day 1, and day 2. Very neutral stance on most players on day 1. Clicky - His reasoning for voting CC is off BH's case My Clicky - Selectively dodges questions On March 30 2012 06:58 Sinensis wrote: ##vote: Blazinghand Your case stinks, so does your posting. I already defended why I voted for C_C once. I would try having a conversation with you but I just don't feel like it because of how you've been posting. Voted for making pointless chaos in the thread wherever he can; we're past the beginning of day 1 the time when that would be appropriate is over. Also Nemesis until your "analysis" of my play becomes something other than quoting 3 of the first things I said in the game out of context and saying "Also he seems to have a habit of inflating useless topics," I don't have time for you either. Note that he just dodges BH's case against him and pulls an OMGUS On March 30 2012 08:22 Sinensis wrote: "Bandwagoning with easy votes." Psh. I am voting the most obviously scummy people every time. Just because most of the town agrees someone is acting scummy doesn't mean I am "bandwagoning because it's easy." You think trying to vote Blazinghand for his stupid, non-contributing arguments with every player in this game would have been the "easy vote?" You have your attention in the wrong places. He only addressed one portion of what I posted against him - Uses chainsaw defense On March 30 2012 10:57 Sinensis wrote: Wouldn't presenting your entire campaign on how I'm scum BEFORE people comment make more sense? I guess your campaign could turn out to be stupid and you want to judge initial reactions before you commit to embarrassment? On March 30 2012 11:06 Sinensis wrote: OKAY SO I BOLDED YOUR NEW REASON WHY I'M SCUM and maybe a pattern is starting to emerge? Anyway the bolded part isn't true I have shared every read I have had this game, and I would be scum hunting but the person I am suspicious of hasn't responded yet so in the mean time... there is this. Note that my case against him from the beginning was that HE WAS NOT INTERESTED IN SCUMHUNTING and taking very neutral stances against players. But he somehow tries and spin that as a "new reason" and tries to put suspicion to me even though he stated before he thought I was town. So which is it? Town wouldn't have any reason to make up reasons for lynching someone and here you are trying to imply that I am just making up reasons to think that I am scum. On March 30 2012 11:24 Sinensis wrote: It isn't Nemesis, I am actually pretty sure about this. It's froggy, he's the one who sheeped me for an irrelevant reason after Nemesis's original vote and case. cccalf, froggy, and gonzaw. I am okay with lynching any of these players today, though I will prefer cccalf unless he posts something. Again he pulls another chainsaw defense and OMGUS on someone for voting for him. - history Clickly - inconsistent reads On March 30 2012 08:02 Sinensis wrote: cccalf is probably mafia. If you want to vote for a useless townie, this is the guy to vote for. If you want to vote for someone who's only case has been against the dead "town leader" who flipped blue, cccalf is the one to vote for. If cccalf flips scum, I believe his probable scum team mates are: zelblade, MrZentor, and froggynoddy. These are the only players not to lash out at cccalf for his inactivity. If you have more specific questions for me, please ask them. On March 30 2012 11:24 Sinensis wrote: It isn't Nemesis, I am actually pretty sure about this. It's froggy, he's the one who sheeped me for an irrelevant reason after Nemesis's original vote and case. cccalf, froggy, and gonzaw. I am okay with lynching any of these players today, though I will prefer cccalf unless he posts something. Credit to gonzaw for noticing that. This pretty much confirms him as scum. We can still win this town gogogo! | ||
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 02 2012 05:46 EchelonTee wrote: Want to hear my opinion of gonzaw? The fact that he writes really big posts every time means it is hard to dissect his reads. The fact that other people have acted wildly anti-town (sinensis/MrZ sigh...) means that he gets a free pass to look townie if he writes look townie for no good reason. He has also been pushing, in my opinion, townies all game. But is this hard evidence? Nope! am I willing to bet losing this game? Nope!!!! So I push people who I see as more scummy. You calling me suspicious for playing optimally isn't you being dumb; you're smarter than this. You're pulling the strings lol. Wait, if you don't think I'm scum, why do you even point this out? Apparently you think sloosh+DYH+froggy are scum, so why did you even post that? Saying "he looks townie but he could be scum just having a free pass" isn't valid at all. If you find me suspicious then point out things that make me suspicious, if not then do EXACTLY what you said we should do and "focus on a handful of candidates". He has also been pushing, in my opinion, townies all game So you think Blue is town? Why? Prove it to us What do you think about Sinensis? | ||
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
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