Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia IX - Page 18

On March 25 2012 22:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Gossemerr opened in a joking way, then creates the RoF lynch train based on RoF's post making not much sense. This play I think is fine if he was town too though. Jumps from RoF to sc2system a bit too easily too after RoF was confirmed town. It also makes sense that one Mafia would want to start the bandwagons while the other two 'reluctantly' post to lynch him in the end so that the mafia aren't connected as much. This however is more of a general mafia argument then specifically for Gossemerr. Accuses sc2system again for playing dumb when it's become pretty apparent that he's just not a very good townie. Uses chainsaw argument when I accuse him which is a super scummy thing to do (if you don't know, a chainsaw argument is accusing the accuser rather than defending yourself). This is something Seviro used earlier too. It's true that he started the bandwagon on RoF. What I also find weird is that he first calls for sc2system to get killed, then doesn't want the vigilante to kill sc2system after all. Given he flipped town that does make Gossemerr less suspicious, but he said it so late that it was unlikely that any vigilante would still change their target so I'm not sure it matters too much. Reading over this again though I'd say Gossemerr is the weakest case of the three.

To all of you out there, please analyze these three people well. To Seviro, michaelthe and Gossemerr; refute these points and analyze the others to make your case that you are indeed townie. The best way to defend yourself is to contribute. Given that I'm going to be the only one in this game you can trust, you'll know I'm not trying to redirect you onto players that aren't scum. Let's see if we can turn this around. I've got a lot of work I need to do today though so I can't guarantee I can react to any posts quickly.

On March 26 2012 03:10 michaelthe wrote:

On Gossemerr:

What really caught me off was him talking about the vig shot. Before and after the vig shot he thinks its a terrible idea.





First, here is why its a good vig shot:
1) Artanis had a LOT of heat on him (at least in mind) due to a big mistake of calling someone a townie (which only Mafia could know). Artanis is now the most confirmed town we have.
2) sc2system was either a anti-town townie (useless posts, wanting to confuse ppl, etc.) or scum. A vig shot on him isn't bad in either case. A townie posting anti-town crap is useless. Even more useless if they get modkilled later for inactivity!

Further more, it is particularly absurd that Goss would dislike this vig shot because Goss' ONLY attack has been agasint sc2system! Why would be pro-lynch on him and not pro-vig hit!?

I think Goss thinks it's pro-town to frown upon a vig shot hitting a green, and therefore did. Everyone else was pretty much in consensus that it was a good vig shot.

Conclusion
I think this is terribly scummy from both Seviro and Goss. Seviro wanted his bad play buried, he ignored it mostly, and then defended it poorly. Goss made a big mistake of being the only person to go against the vig hit, despite making a case agasint the target! He went against the vig hit because he thinks it's pro-town to frown upon the vig accidently killing a green.

Right now I would vote for either of these, I think they both made major mistakes. If I could vote twice, I would. I'm starting with Seviro because I think it's too his advantage to have more time past from his mistakes so he can bury them. Also, he has already tried, and failed, to cover up his bad play, Goss hasn't had a full chance to defend himself.

##Vote: Seviro

On March 26 2012 03:54 Nova_Terra wrote:

Ok.
I just went over last game briefly.
Starting off with, i made an apparently "bad move" by FoS'ing somebody early. Then, i got mad and frustrated, and ended up spamming defense posts and some OMGUS. At least in the pages i read, i was responding to people calling me out and playing aggressively because i was lashing out at people.
After last game, i learned that i wanted to play in a more "emotionless" manner where it wouldnt screw me up and cause me to post cases and analysis that goes totally incorrect because my mind wanted to lynch them for even daring to accuse something i did to be bad or wrong. I wanted to play more like Mementoss (which is a bad example as he was scum, but still accurate) but he really did seem like a helpful townie, and he just seemed like his behavior never changed when different things happened. His posts didnt have OMGUS, or terrible cases. I wanted to do just that. And that i feel accounts for my meta. My pressure posts made me feel like i didnt actually do anything. We ended up letting a mafia through and a townie die. Yet, I dont even get how it could have helped. We pressured a townie who posted and then left, and he didnt respond and so he died. Then i received flak for switching my vote off him when i thought he was innocent later. All that this reinforced to me was that i shouldnt play the way my brain thinks. because its suspicious, etc.

Enter this game. It starts in a week where i am busy to begin with with many tests, and my brain was scrambled to begin with. And i knew that i wanted to change up my play and play without this emotion crap. Because it was making me scummy. I've been trying to let people know that i agree with them in some issues here, and others there, to make myself as transparent as possible. And then every now and again, when some posts went through me, I went a little into rage mode. Immediately to shut it down, i kinda held back on analysis so i wouldnt let it influence my play, which i realize now makes no sense because by shutting down the analysis it was influencing my play.I was kinda scared about how i would come across because of how i was feeling.
Strangely enough, this weekend i have had a relatively busy social schedule. Thats kind of new for me, and i realize this. Then i started missing deadlines (that i myself had made) and just not posting on time, making stupid lapses in judgement (like not reading the thread alongside filters and taking BlueyD's post out of context) as a result of me being out and about and/or playing games with friends. And i feel so bad about it, because i really didnt want to come off as suspicious but because of these little things i found that i was coming across in that manner, at least to myself, and thats why i've been apologising. Its so hard to be transparent when i was screwing up these little things, and i feel bad for making it so hard on the other townies to read me.

However, i was spending some time looking over filters. I still maintain that i find the leadership thing to be scummy. I cant remember if i explained why i did in a previous post, but please ask if you want me to again. Dont want to waste space if i dont have to.

Looking over the case, it definitely felt to me like it was certainly warranted and some things were suspicious, but it also felt like my case on seviro last game. I dont get why my analysis is apparently so bad, but all i know is that im trying to put tons of effort on these cases and nobodys really agreeing with it and it doesnt do anything.it feels terrible to be putting all the time and feeling into it and having it do nothing.
Last night i came in after an exciting day out in the city, and finished my case, and then decided to relax for a little while and watch some MLG. yeah, i did see something about vigilante shot on sc2system, but at the time wasnt concerned about it and actually thought that it made sense as we wouldnt waste the day arguing about him (which i didnt post because people were taking flak for making posts to just agree with people), and only when i was literally falling asleep did i realize that the vigilante shot is pretty much a free kill against mafia if its used right, and didnt feel like getting up to go post to state my opinion. Not because i knew system was town or anything like that, I was just too damn tired around 1 in the morning. Which was another thing that i apologized for as i should have gotten up to do that.

So, to end this defense, I want to add my reads on everybody so far.
Mementoss: Leaning far town, seems very inno which scares me as thats how i was thinking last game.
Seviro: leaning scum, actually. I hope to provide analysis on him tonight or tomorrow during the day.
artanis: most likely to be town, at least in my eyes
Virtu: Relatively null. I havent really gotten any vibes from him at all. Posts some analysis (of last games play etc) but doesnt really seem to do much with it at least in my eyes.
Nova_Terra (yes i am putting myself on my own list): null. hard to read because of not posting thoughts when they seem to arise.
Michaelthe: null leaning scummy. makes some posts that i find were pretty good early game, but then he just randomly drops off and doesnt post much. One thing in his favor in my eyes is how he has been playing aggressively.
Gossemerr: Null leaning town. I like the aggressiveness however.
Ninja4ever.:Null. not a very active player, but he does come and post his thoughts a couple times a day. I dont like his activity however.
BlueyD: Null leaning scummy. I still think my points on the position he has been taking in the game are valid, and i find that he got defensive pretty dang fast.

On March 26 2012 10:20 Seviro wrote:
Hey Mementoss, I'd like to hear your opinion on what have been said since your last post and if you feel like Nova's response to your accusation was satisfying.

On March 26 2012 03:20 michaelthe wrote:
ebwop:

one last note before I'm out for a bit. If anyone wants me to respond to Seviro, I will- but it seems to me like he is forcing really weak cases to try and bury his terrible play and Artanis issue. Both his cases are rather poor and forced.

So if I disagree that using the vig shot on someone who is maybe town (now confirmed), that is scummy to you? Don't see the reasoning there. And in my reasoning I said maybe he would have stepped up his game, who knows what could have been happening IRL. Also, I would not say that EVERYONE was in a consensus, only a few have any said anything about the vig shot being a good idea. I can see why Artansis would want to save his own ass, but we still wasted a potentially free mafia kill. Moving on, I never voted for sc2system so how would that indicate that I was pro-lynch? I really don't see how I made a "major mistake," by thinking the vig shot was not a good idea. I tried to post as soon as I got home as well, but it was already near the deadline. I really have a hard time following how thinking that the vig shot was bad is somehow making me seem scummy to you.

Anyway, I'm going to analyze the thread and filters and post in a few hours.

sc2system feels like the safer bet to me. Scummy post that I point out above, and then hardcore lurker basically since.

On March 25 2012 02:06 Gossemerr wrote:
sc2system is the most scummy candidate in my opinion that we currently have. There are a few other cases out there on him so I won't rehash those. However, this response to when I asked:

Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that our vig should shoot someone who is possibly not a mafia? You would ACTUALLY want to waste a mafia kill on a bad town player? I think sc2system is playing either bad scum or town right now, as my older posts suggest, but why does he HAVE to die right now? Maybe Day 2 he will actually contribute.

On March 23 2012 06:16 michaelthe wrote:
ULTIMATUM: Post something of value within 8 hours or you are getting my vote!

On March 23 2012 15:23 michaelthe wrote:
On Froggy

You came out VERY defensive. I called for lurkers to post, and they did... But hey, that's not my strategy!:



Your turn Euro's. See you in the morning.

You had no opinion, really?! On a vigi hit?!

1. These 2 were a lot of people’s first 2 suspects. Pointing out that they were mementoss’s as well is not worth it.

2. He pointed out the lurking of people who had been pointed out by Gossemer and Ninja4ever, which makes him the first to make these cases? Contradiction, anyone?

When your only time specifically mentioning Rise day 1 is this:

+ Show Spoiler +

On March 24 2012 03:14 Seviro wrote:
Oh, I really just think now that Fenix is playing poorly or just doesn't care enough to put enough time on the game. But I'll give him the chance to step up his play because I really think he is town.

I think that if he was mafia, his fellow scum would have helped him in the background so that he don't look so suspicious. For now I think he is just bad and as I said, i'm willing to give him a chance to step up his play. I shouldn't have said that I think that he is really town, more like I don't see him being more scummy than anyone else right now.

On March 24 2012 05:10 Seviro wrote:
Yeah I know, I just feel like it's too obvious to be true. I might be wrong tho.

On March 23 2012 03:50 Seviro wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

My post wasn't useless, I had to post something before going to bed and I can't post while i'm asleep sorry .

As for the lurker lynch we should really put pressure on this, as Mementoss and Nova said, last game all three scums were very active and it was easy for them to control the flow of the game. It is useless to have the number advantage if half of the town only post once in a while just to make sure they are not modkilled. If you look at last day of last game (SNMMVIII) we were 5 town/3 scums and in one day we lynched a townie and 2 others got modkilled, and one of the lurkers was a Blue. This overall inactivity was a good part of why we lose the game since every lurker that we targetted flipped town.

That said we should put pressure on lurker but not lynch them to fast because last game's situation will happen again and we will die horribly.

On March 23 2012 07:58 Seviro wrote:
there's no haste to vote yet, it's just that you said you would wait about and hour before the deadline before your vote, which is really late.

It will be best for everyone if we say something like 8 to 6 hour before the deadline we should post what is our vote at that moment. At this point we can discuss and see what would be the best for the town. If at the time of the "soft" deadline you have no one that you think is more suspicious than the other you can always vote for no-lynch and change your vote later.

On March 23 2012 08:05 Seviro wrote:
It depends, on day 1 it is bad since we have no informations whatsoever if we don'T lynch someone, but later in the game a no lynch can be better than a mislynch. It does seems scummy but at time it can be good (rarely tho).

But my point was not to no lynch, it was that you can vote no-lynch like 6-8 hour before the deadline if you don't know who to vote for and then with the discussion that follow you can make up your mind.

On March 24 2012 03:10 Seviro wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +



I already answered what I meant by that, pressuring and lynching are two different thing. Pressuring is forcing them to post by asking them directly their opinion on a subject so that we can more precisely find who is scum and who is not. A scum under pressure is most likely to post than a town in my opinion.



Ok, so I can't agree with anyone that's what you're saying? I mean I wasn'T online after Nova question and Froggy kind of answered him in my place and I just pointed out that it was indeed what I meant.





Ok, so now I'm suspicious because i'm not badwagonning? I don'T really see your point here.



Way to miss the point, I won't bother explaining again since what you quoted was clear and you just seem to want to make me look scummy by making me say what I didn'T say.



It is not that crucial but if we can come up with something like this we will be a lot more organized and will have time to discuss all the votes before the actual deadline. Once again I explained it very well.



Now that you put yourself on the stage, let's take a look at you.

+ Show Spoiler +

Introductory post, little content else than the obvious and some WIFOM toward the end

+ Show Spoiler +

On of the first to tell what everyone else will say after. (People can have the same opinion, it'S not necessary badwagonning)

+ Show Spoiler +

I agree that my posts are kind of long but just because you are missing every point that I make it doesn't mean that I have no content.

+ Show Spoiler +

This defense is not valid as it is only WIFOM. (It's a newbie game after all)


Now I hate to do that, but I need to vote on you for now. In your case on me you were purposely (or not) missing all my point to make me look scummy and that for me is a lot more scummy. so for now

##Vote: Artanis[Xp]

On March 24 2012 05:48 Seviro wrote:


Dude you still have about 6 hour left before today's deadline. At the rate thi is going you won'T be alive tomorrow anyway, if you want to defend yourself and step up your play it is today. With a post like this it seems like you don'T even try so we might as well lynch you right now.

On March 24 2012 06:00 Seviro wrote:
I want to point out that it'S been a bit more than 22 hour since virtu last post. He did said he'll post today but I have yet to see anything from him. I think for now i'll put my vote on him until he comes out.

##unvote: Artanis[Xp]
##Vote: Virtu

On March 25 2012 04:56 Seviro wrote:
Hum, you have some good point there but you could have add these two post as well


+ Show Spoiler +


+ Show Spoiler +

It seems like it is 100% sure that these two are the lynch target for the first 2 day when everything can happen during day 1 that can change anything.

Personnally after seeing Rise flip Town I think that Sc2system is most likely a town that can't put his thought together. I believe that his day 1 posting are mostly inexperienced post and that if he try a bit he could come up with some good thing. I just know that for now i'm not willing to vote for him on day 2 yet.

On March 25 2012 06:43 Seviro wrote:


This is what I meant by pressure but not necessarly lynch, I put my vote on him and then he came and posted his thought so I switched back. This is what I call pressure play.

Pressuring is forcing them to post by asking them directly their opinion on a subject so that we can more precisely find who is scum and who is not.

I also think it’s funny that he’s leaning “scum” for Seviro and “null leaning scummy” for me, but I’m the one who got FoSed.