|
+ Show Spoiler [Disclaimer] +I'm not gosu or knowledgable, nor do I want to portray myself as so. This is a fan perspective not a progamer perspective, plus a watching perspective not a playing perspective.
This weekend I did something I haven't done since the first round of the second GSL: watch some Starcraft 2. I have attended a couple of the Perth Barcrafts at Basement on Broadway but I spent the majority of my time there drinking and drunkenly cheering whenever a terran loses. I however rocked up to the screening of the GSL finals between DRG and Genius sober and ready to go.
I watched much of the first GSL back in 2010 and the first round of GSL2. I was horribly disappointed. Constant cheesing, a huge lack in variety of strategies and terrible mismatches were the order of the day. I quickly lost interest and while I kept at playing the game for a little longer, the interest wore off much sooner than I expected considering how amped I was during beta.
Being an avid Brood War watcher (and sc2 trasher) for nearly two seasons now, this was the first time I actively took an interest in what happened in a sc2 match since 2010 and many things seemed to have changed. I was frequently noticing strategies, timings and basic army compositions strikingly similar to what I had been seeing in Brood War. Not only this, a few developments of its own were there as well.
These are some of the things I noted that were different to the constant 3-rax and 4gate I associated sc2 with, both generally and in the ZvP matchup:
- More aggressive expanding. Both players expanded early and often and as a result were able to produce to defend and attack more quickly and effectively. This was the biggest change from what I remembered which was almost exclusively one-basing. The result was bigger armies, more battles and more action.
- More early teching. DRG was getting to Lair before attacking, Genius getting up robos and stargates. These things are common in BW and allowed a greater variety of unit of early game skirmishes.
- Forge FE being used regularly. The only real opener for PvZ in Brood War was used almost every match by Genius and to great effect. I don't know whether this is because of lower range of roaches compared to BW hydras but it felt as though Genius was safer early on and could get his stuff going without having to worry about an early bust as much. It allowed a wider range of options for the protoss over just 4gate.
- Air harrassment by the protoss. Watching phoenix fleets harrass drone lines and overlords reminded me very much of corsairs.
- Macro hatcheries from the zerg. Instead of just one hatch at each base, the extra hatcheries vastly improved production. This change may also be tied to the fact that noone ever got past 2 base when I used to watch.
- Army compositions.The huge protoss balls tended to have only one or two collossus in them and were largely gateway heavy, reminiscent of the zealot/dragoon armies with one or two reavers in support. The zerg stuck to roach ling, as per the ling/hydra armies of BW with minor spellcaster support.
- Games didn't end as rapidly. Despite there usually being a clear winner in each skirmish, the game never really felt over until it was over. In the early GSL days that I watched there was often only one attack, one side would be slaughtered and that would be it. Advantages were gained from battles, not instawins and this made for more entertaining matches.
Three major things which still differentiated sc2 from Brood War (beside the units):
- Ball on ball action. Most combat was a full 1a army clash, there were few skirmishes between small groups and little to no harrassment. This was the most disappointing aspect of the matches for me.
- Lack of spellcasting. The infestor is not a defiler and was hardly used. Templar were not to be seen of either variety. DRG did utilise whatever the corruptor ability is well against carriers and the queen regenerate thing.
- The overlay and observer options are vastly superior to BW. At a glance I could see what each player was making, food, money etc. Other interesting information and player views were often displayed, in a way that didn't mess with the viewing experience (as I feel OGN sometimes do). The matches were presently very well.
TLDR
I don't think I will ever enjoy sc2 as much as Brood War nor follow it but I came away from this experience with a vastly improved opinion of sc2 as a spectator sport. It appears to have adapted some of the things that I liked about Brood War and is better for it, plus made some promising developments of its own.
Still not going to follow it though 
|
I actually think Korean player streams are far more entertaining than tournaments. It's much more entertaining when you see things from the player's view.
|
On March 04 2012 22:04 village_idiot wrote:
I actually think Korean player streams are far more entertaining than tournaments. It's much more entertaining when you see things from the player's view.
Ever saw JD/Flash/Bisu played during WCG? Godly, compared to the ones I saw from top korean SC2 players (maybe because they were just laddering and these BW pros are high on adrenalin because it's a live tournament)
|
On March 04 2012 22:15 shaftofpleasure wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 22:04 village_idiot wrote:
I actually think Korean player streams are far more entertaining than tournaments. It's much more entertaining when you see things from the player's view. Ever saw JD/Flash/Bisu played during WCG? Godly, compared to the ones I saw from top korean SC2 players (maybe because they were just laddering and these BW pros are high on adrenalin because it's a live tournament)
Totally agree on the godly part.
It was due to the waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy more demanding mechanics, imo (macroing zerg in BW... /bow).
|
There is truth in what you say, especially about the thing that Sc2 will never be as fun to watch as BW. There are still good points though, but to me it still seems like BW progamers are more of a specialist in their field of profession than Sc2 pro's. The skill needed is just much higher, and also causes pro matches to be more interesting. It is rather sad that most army engagements in Sc2 are 200/200 clashes, instead of more "covert ops"-esque groups which attack at multiple fronts.
|
Hmm. To each his own. I'd give it some time. I do think though that the amount of info that we can get from obsing now sorta hampers the spectator's view. There can't be any OH SHIT here comes 15 carriers to roll terran's mech anymore because we'd see 15 carriers and before that the stargates on the production tab.
Dunno. just my 2c.
|
BW ui is not perfect but i definitely would not want SC2 production tabs and such. All it does is dull the skill of the caster/commentator.
|
I absolutely detest the graphics in SC2. BW graphics are highly pixilated, but it's so much easier to see what's going on. :/
|
How is it easier to see what's going on when you have like 2 frames per animation in BW and the sprites jump around like crazy? Aren't you just being obstinate for the sake of it.
|
I do like how, especially from the Terran side, matches are much more about economy rather than some 1 base gimmick. It used to be that you could expect banshees, hellions or a marine push 10 times out of 10 from a 1 base terran. Now getting a FE is at least as common.
|
Canada13378 Posts
In a year or two Im sure SC2 will be even more evolved. Its posts like this that make it clear to me that people who said sc2 couldn't evolve (back in 2010) were very clearly wrong. I think blizz learned a lot with regards to design during this time too so I hope to see some cool stuff in the future expansions myself.
|
the 1a ball clashes are starting to fade. I was watching NSHS.Sage play a couple days ago and he was doing a 3 way split army thing that just demolished the other protoss. It was amazing. I believe it was Morrow that said most pros are SLOWLY moving away from the death ball because it is too narrow to be used againt the multipronged harrass that many pros are using.
|
Canada8028 Posts
On March 05 2012 03:32 Jinsho wrote:
How is it easier to see what's going on when you have like 2 frames per animation in BW and the sprites jump around like crazy? Aren't you just being obstinate for the sake of it.
Because the sprites all have unique characteristics that really stand out. Unit coloring in BW is generally more vibrant as well. For example, compare zerg on creep from both games. The player color for zerg in BW is very pronounced, and covers most of the body. In SC2 there's a lot more brown and purple hues. Thus when there are masses of zerg units (a ball of lings, for instance), things can start to blend together. In this age of HD streaming it's usually not too much of a problem, but it's still quite noticeable on low res streams like the GOM free stream.
Also, what exactly does lack of frames have to do with clarity? You don't need to view a hundred frames before you can identify a mass of pixels as an explosion. As long as the animation is consistent this shouldn't be an issue at all.
|
Oh you were there as well? And you're more of a BW fan? Geez we gotta meet up sometime.
I definitely agree that SC2 is better now than it was last year. Still doesn't compare to BW though.
|
On March 05 2012 14:35 FractalsOnFire wrote:
Oh you were there as well? And you're more of a BW fan? Geez we gotta meet up sometime.
I definitely agree that SC2 is better now than it was last year. Still doesn't compare to BW though.
Sure man, maybe we can get Fold to stop studying and come outside as well
|
On March 05 2012 15:40 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 14:35 FractalsOnFire wrote:
Oh you were there as well? And you're more of a BW fan? Geez we gotta meet up sometime.
I definitely agree that SC2 is better now than it was last year. Still doesn't compare to BW though. Sure man, maybe we can get Fold to stop studying and come outside as well
hahaha yeah i haven't seen fold in ages, haven't seen him around uni.
|
Watching at a BarCraft really make a world of difference. I wonder why BW fans hasn't attempted to run BarCrafts of their own in order to resuscitate their sport.
|
On March 05 2012 00:12 TemujinGK wrote:
Hmm. To each his own. I'd give it some time. I do think though that the amount of info that we can get from obsing now sorta hampers the spectator's view. There can't be any OH SHIT here comes 15 carriers to roll terran's mech anymore because we'd see 15 carriers and before that the stargates on the production tab.
Dunno. just my 2c.
I actually agree with this. I do think there is to much information with the observer tools, and it isn't going to go away either but I am used to it now.
On March 05 2012 05:08 ZeromuS wrote:
In a year or two Im sure SC2 will be even more evolved. Its posts like this that make it clear to me that people who said sc2 couldn't evolve (back in 2010) were very clearly wrong. I think blizz learned a lot with regards to design during this time too so I hope to see some cool stuff in the future expansions myself.
My thoughts exactly. The people who said it would be bad like this forever and never become macro oriented lol. Good times  .
|
dark side says they have cookies<we all know they dont< then the light gives them recipe<them they make cookies like light side<thats how
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
