| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
zelblade
Australia901 Posts
For the lynch today, my prime targert is ofc ET, with reasons stated in my case on him. Assuming we cannot get a majority on him, ill be fine with a mannerkiss lynch unless he starts posting quality stuff. Dimmuklok I am unsure on - will reread his filter again tomorrow before lynch before I make up my mind. I dont feel that MG or gumshoe is scum, and thus dont want to lynch them. Night. | ||
|
Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
I place my vote on gumshoe. The reasoning for this is in my case against him. tldr:I wanna kill him cause of his scummy play. Regardless of his allingment his play is ultra scummy, that's anti town. I'm not 100% sold on Echellons case, if I was I would push for him and a day2 lynch on gum. Since I am not, I will stick with the only option that will benefit town, killing the guy whos acting like he's actively trolling on the game. You can expect much more quality posting from me again, starting tomorrow morning, in euro time that is. Peace. Oh almost forgot, ##vote Gumshoe Edited by GMarshal to correct the vote format | ||
|
DimmuKlok
United States225 Posts
| ||
|
TKHawkins
United States103 Posts
On February 18 2012 01:19 gumshoe wrote: As of now i really dont get any bad vibes from him,but i didnt really expect to suspect anyone this early in the game, that said gladus first posts explain the odds distribution in the game in a refined but obvius way, his other post was ano obvius but not hostile critique of my poll( the poll was also meant to garner hostile potentialy opotunity seeking mafia responses but his response was just polite and reasonay dismissive) he has not provided ano opinion on lynching lurlers FOS's MannerKiss. Comments on how DimmuKlok made an accusation against "the most obvious runt" (Manner) and and the "second most obvious seeming runt" (himself). Later comments on how Ech and him are now the most obvious votes and pushes for Ech. These are the comments of somebody scrambling to stay alive, not scum. Blae Quality post with a new argument against Ech for being too aggressive. Gets ticked at lurkers. Sees trackd00r and Janaan as pro-town. Blae feels very pro town to me. Would love to see more, but with the Europe timezone difference I think I will end up playing phone tag with him on the weekdays. Alderan Pressuring lurkers to post. Makes a case against DimmuKlok, Neutral until I can see more. Ech Throws FOSs and Votes out very impulsively. Does not seem to have a plan, and could just be trying to cause unrest. Why say you had more to say about MidnightGladius being suspicious and then not say anything more? It's almost as if he voted for Midnight and then forgot why he was going to say he voted for him. Which a town would not do. Suspicious. DoYouHas Mostly bogged down with Gumshoe. Trying to tag sl0osh as a good player who wouldn't make such mistakes. It makes no sense to try to meta analyze a player with only one game of background. DoYouHas is jumping on perceived mistakes. Suspicious. MannerKiss There is a difference between lurking by not posting every 4 hours and lurking by actively reading the thread and then just not posting on it. Suspicious because is following the thread and not posting. Steveling Pushes a no lynch and then says he just got confused on the day length. Pushes the gumshoe, who is already getting a lot of heat. Suspicious because no lynch is anti town, even if we had no real leads and because he focuses us back on gumshoe. Trackdoor Pressuring lurkers to post. Makes reasonable statements about Ech. Isn't being super aggressive, but rather analytic. Pro-town read. Midnight I can't get a solid read on him. Slo0sh Still think he reacted too strongly to Ech and DoYouHas accusing him. Why feel guilty as town? Focuses discussion back on Gumshoe, possibly to distract us from his scum buddies. Suspicious. Janaan Had a good explanation for a bad early post I pointed out. Seems to be trying to get other people's reads, so looks pro-town. DimmuKlok Seems to be overly emphasizing that he is new to the game and busy. So am I, but I don't feel the need to state that every other post. Neutral. Zelblade Says Ech is mafia and... that's it? I don't see how he is contributing if he is only going to comment on one or two players. The stuff he says about Ech though is good. Pro-town, but lurking too much. jaj Says flashy and aggressive play are not scummy when talking about Ech. But that's also how he is playing. Convenient eh? Would like more of an explanation about why Midnight in particular deserves a pressure vote, when there are so many others that could have used that too. | ||
|
blae000
Norway1640 Posts
On February 19 2012 02:27 zelblade wrote: Hey guys. Will go sleep now in order to wake up in time for the deadline (praying that i dont oversleep...). Hopefully can wake up around 2 hours from lynch. For the lynch today, my prime targert is ofc ET, with reasons stated in my case on him. Assuming we cannot get a majority on him, ill be fine with a mannerkiss lynch unless he starts posting quality stuff. Dimmuklok I am unsure on - will reread his filter again tomorrow before lynch before I make up my mind. I dont feel that MG or gumshoe is scum, and thus dont want to lynch them. Night. Ive got to agree with you on most points. I've not really settled on anything regarding gumshoe though. I will definitely not be able to post later.. So I'll have to place a vote now. My prime target is ET as well, and I have posted why earlier. So that's who I'll go for. It's sad that I wont be able to follow the last couple of hours, incase something comes up. But I'll trust the work we have done so far. ##Vote: EchelonTee | ||
|
TKHawkins
United States103 Posts
| ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
Echelon Tree - I don't buy this case as it stands. He's active, hes promoting discussion. I have gotten little to no scum tells off of him yet. Doesn't seem like a good target, for today at least. Gumshoe - Sapping up a lot of the towns attention, unnecessarily I think. In my opinion we should definitely be looking at those him pressuring namely, Steve and Midnight. DimmuKlok - His response to my case was horrendous to say the least, even after Jaj slipped and told him exactly how to respond. In my mind there's only one choice here. #Vote: DimmuKlok | ||
|
jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
On February 19 2012 02:45 TKHawkins wrote: jaj Says flashy and aggressive play are not scummy when talking about Ech. But that's also how he is playing. Convenient eh? Would like more of an explanation about why Midnight in particular deserves a pressure vote, when there are so many others that could have used that too. 1. If you don't believe me on that point, you can PM Palmar and ask him. Or you can just read Palmar's town play. 2. That's not a pressure vote. I think he's scum. You can tell because I wrote a case on him with his name in bold red text. While his contribution to town is no lower than a lot of other players, he's the one who should know better. I'll be writing another post covering his play since my case shortly. | ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
forgot to bold ##Vote: DimmuKlok | ||
|
MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
On February 19 2012 03:34 jaj22 wrote: 1. If you don't believe me on that point, you can PM Palmar and ask him. Or you can just read Palmar's town play. 2. That's not a pressure vote. I think he's scum. You can tell because I wrote a case on him with his name in bold red text. While his contribution to town is no lower than a lot of other players, he's the one who should know better. I'll be writing another post covering his play since my case shortly. The flaw here is that as soon as we say that "behavior A is scummy," and that "behavior B is not scummy," there is nothing to prevent the mafia from taking your cue and thus avoiding town suspicion. As you seem to know what you're talking about with regard to statistics, you have to admit that P(aggression|scum) is always non-zero. If you really think I'm scum, then vote for me. Actually vote for me, using the proper format so that it will be counted correctly, and so that the evidence will be there for further analysis. I don't like how hesitant you've been on actually pursuing your case against me, since if you had any conviction at all you would have done this right from the start. For what it's worth, though, I don't think that you're scum, just a bored innocent player trying to provoke some kind of discussion, as you said at the beginning of your case. That's all well and good, but if you actually want me to respond substantively, you need to give me something I can actually respond to. I'm much more worried about EchelonTee, considering that he came back and still hasn't followed through on his original promise to make a case on me. He referred to your case instead of providing reasoning of his own, and then told me to "respond or die." Right. Personally, I think he's waiting for someone else to take the hint and push first, much as he prompted you. His behavior lacks accountability to the town and to himself, and that's far more damning to me than any "flashy or aggressive play" heuristic. ##Unvote: gumshoe ##Vote: EchelonTee To provide an explanation for my switch, I made my views on gumshoe clear earlier. Unlike most Day 1 pressure votes where we try to get someone to talk, I just wanted him to post more coherently and settle down. When he still continued to make a ruckus, I began to get concerned. His last few posts have been much better, and after sleeping on it and re-reading his filter, I just can't see his behavior in the context of an informed mafia team effort. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
TKHawkins
United States103 Posts
On February 19 2012 03:34 jaj22 wrote: 1. If you don't believe me on that point, you can PM Palmar and ask him. Or you can just read Palmar's town play. 2. That's not a pressure vote. I think he's scum. You can tell because I wrote a case on him with his name in bold red text. While his contribution to town is no lower than a lot of other players, he's the one who should know better. I'll be writing another post covering his play since my case shortly. It's not that I don't think the point is generally valid. It's that I think it's self serving. It's like one blonde saying to another blonde that "blondes have more fun." On February 18 2012 09:31 jaj22 wrote: Ok, screw it. I'm making a case. MidnightGladius: 1. Starts off with a number of completely useless posts on setup. Didn't even do the probability. 2. Makes the usual post on ET vs Sloosh and Gumshoe's poll. Yeah, so did everyone else. 3. Votes the easy target (MannerKiss) with an elaborate lurker-lynch reasoning. 4. Votes the easy target (Gumshoe) because he spams and sucks at statistics. That's it. Low post count apart from the setup filler. No interest in anyone in except the easy targets, and contributing next to nothing to town as a result. I don't think he posted much more in Newbie Mini III, but he had the excuse of being blue there, and it was a slower game (too damn slow). He should know better. Probably much too early to be putting people in bold red, but I'm bored waiting for all the lurkers to post. Like I said earlier, I still can't get a good read on Midnight, and looking through filters neither can a few other people. Even your accusation starts with "oh, screw it. I'm making a case." That makes me think you don't even believe the accusation yourself. You even say the only reason you did it was because you were bored. If you have something more since then to back it up, please post. Otherwise there is no way in hell I'm voting for Midnight based on just that. | ||
|
jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
On February 19 2012 04:08 MidnightGladius wrote: The flaw here is that as soon as we say that "behavior A is scummy," and that "behavior B is not scummy," there is nothing to prevent the mafia from taking your cue and thus avoiding town suspicion. As you seem to know what you're talking about with regard to statistics, you have to admit that P(aggression|scum) is always non-zero. You're missing the point, possibly deliberately. People are using ET's style as the primary reason that he's scum, which is invalid unless P(aggression|scum) is much greater than 27%, which my experience suggests is not remotely true. If people want to argue that ET is scum, they should use valid reasoning. I'm much more worried about EchelonTee, considering that he came back and still hasn't followed through on his original promise to make a case on me. He referred to your case instead of providing reasoning of his own, and then told me to "respond or die." Right. Personally, I think he's waiting for someone else to take the hint and push first, much as he prompted you. His behavior lacks accountability to the town and to himself, and that's far more damning to me than any "flashy or aggressive play" heuristic. This is a valid reason. Unfortunately, it's also a very common thing for flashy and aggressive town players to do, so if that's all you have, it's not a good enough reason to lynch. If you really think I'm scum, then vote for me. Actually vote for me, using the proper format so that it will be counted correctly Zbot doesn't need the colon. My vote counted. Anyway, I'm having a crisis of confidence so I'm going to eat something and then re-read. | ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
##vote: MidnightGladius | ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
| ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
MidnightGladius: He has been acting largely how I would expect him to. My questioning of gumshoe's probability was largely to draw MidnightGladius out after gum responded. I think that Midnight's attacks on gumshoe are not something I can use against him for right now when analyzing. The thing that I find strange about Midnight's play so far is the number of one-liners that come off as trying too hard to be fearless once he came under fire. On February 18 2012 09:45 MidnightGladius wrote: You're not even going to vote for me? Welcome back! The last we saw you, DYH was your first scumread. Now, he's "pretty strong townie"? Finally some excitement! Or are you just going to run some of that point-by-point analysis with the red numbers? You apparently think that nonsensical attacks should be taken seriously. If nothing else, vote with the proper formatting so that it will get counted properly. You're missing a colon at the moment. That's the kind of posting that I really don't to have to deal with in the lategame :S There are a couple I left out because I feel I've made my point. I'm just surprised that Midnight, who I see as a very analytical player, would not address the cases against him logically as a first reaction, but instead gave us a series of quips. TKHawkins: Not much to say here. I dislike his first post as it was just a conglomerate of posts others made before with a poor assumption about scum tagged on (an assumption that would exclude TKHawkins from the pool of possible scum of course). Then, in his last post he started following the format of listing everyone with basic reads on them. THIS NEEDS TO STOP. Posting lists is not nearly as helpful as posting thoughtful analysis on a few people. If posting lists becomes standard then we are giving scum an easy way of making long posts that stay shallow. Dimmuklok: Unlike Alderan, I was actually satisfied with much of Dimmuklok's defense of himself. The thing that makes me suspicious is that his weakest defense was of the post that I thought was most scummy. That was this post: On February 18 2012 05:19 DimmuKlok wrote: I've decided to change my stance on lynching lurkers. I was thinking it would be in towns favor to not lynch someone over lynching someone for being inactive, because there's not much to go off of. After reading everyone's response I'm convinced we should be looking for someone to lynch, but I do feel we should try to find a good reason to lynch someone before we target lurkers. I'm must suspicious of MannerKiss right now, like most of you. I'm surprised he threw out that one line response to DoYouHas and then never came back to defend himself. Another suspicion of mine is gumshoe. He's made a lot of posts so far, and most of them being him defending himself for making the poll in the beginning. From a scum perspective, this seems like a good idea. Opening with a useless poll gets your name out there while trying to make it seem like it had a purpose. From then you're able to clutter the thread with discussion over the useless poll, all the while falling back on being a new player as an excuse and some vague reasoning behind it(which might I add has changed several times). Even if gumshoe is not scum, I can't see this as pro-town behavior. Him going after the two most obvious targets is a little fishy, him failing to explain that part because he 'didn't understand Alderan's sarcasm' only makes it more so. However, his posting since has seemed genuine to me. I will be watching him closely, but I am unwilling to vote him today. sl0osh: It may be that sl0osh just has not had time to sit down and really work things out yet, but what he has posted so far still makes me suspicious of him. I already made my original post against him, and that has largely been dealt with. He provided an explanation, and I thought it was reasonable. What isn't reasonable is his extreme lack of taking a stance. I divide his responses into 3 things: responses to pressure, explanation of the game, expressing his own views under his own volition. It is VERY troubling to me how much of the content he has posted fits into those first two categories. Explanation of the game: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) Responses to pressure: ET vs sl0osh (1) (2) (3) (4) Expressing his own views: (1) (2) (3) Take note that the only person he has expressed an opinion on that didn't first attack him is gumshoe, and even those opinions are non-committal. sl0osh has done almost exactly what ET has done, except he hasn't provided us with any stances that we can later use against him. I refuse to believe that with 4hours left in the day, sl0osh has no opinions or cases worth posting. He is just trying to slide by, I won't let him. ##Vote: sl0osh | ||
|
MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
On February 19 2012 04:50 jaj22 wrote: You're missing the point, possibly deliberately. People are using ET's style as the primary reason that he's scum, which is invalid unless P(aggression|scum) is much greater than 27%, which my experience suggests is not remotely true. If people want to argue that ET is scum, they should use valid reasoning. This is a valid reason. Unfortunately, it's also a very common thing for flashy and aggressive town players to do, so if that's all you have, it's not a good enough reason to lynch. Zbot doesn't need the colon. My vote counted. Anyway, I'm having a crisis of confidence so I'm going to eat something and then re-read. Fair enough. I happen to think that P(aggression|scum) is much higher than 27%, to the extent that I'm not comfortable using it as a heuristic. And if that's not a good enough reason to lynch EchelonTee, then... what is your "good enough" reason to lynch me? I've posted a lot since your first case against me. What in those posts reinforces your suspicions of me? On February 19 2012 04:50 Mattchew wrote: Hey guys... I have read a little but am about to go to Atlantic City for the night. I read through the top 3's filters (ET Dimmukok and Midnight) and I think that Midnight should be the lynch today. ##vote: MidnightGladius You're basically saying that you won't be able to provide any justification until after today's lynch. Are you going to give any reasoning at all for suspecting me, or are you just going to enjoy your free vote with no strings attached? | ||
|
MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
To DYH: My one-liners were in response to obviously empty posts. There was nothing for me to say, but I wanted to let them know that I was there and ready to respond to more thorough allegations. When they never followed up with anything substantive, I had nothing more to say. I'm going to read the rest of your post now. | ||
|
MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
| ||
|
slOosh
3291 Posts
On February 19 2012 04:57 DoYouHas wrote: Take note that the only person he has expressed an opinion on that didn't first attack him is gumshoe, and even those opinions are non-committal. sl0osh has done almost exactly what ET has done, except he hasn't provided us with any stances that we can later use against him. I refuse to believe that with 4hours left in the day, sl0osh has no opinions or cases worth posting. He is just trying to slide by, I won't let him. ##Vote: sl0osh I haven't taken stances yet because it is a 15 player game, and then you throw in gumshoe and there is much more information coming in => more time to process, and me posting incomplete thoughts isn't really going to help us find mafia. The 6pm deadline is harsher for me than the 9pm of Newbie III so I'm adjusting as best as I can. I'm putting together what I have now and will post it. | ||
| ||
StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War Britney Dota 2  32175BeSt 3765Mini 587GuemChi 584hero  174firebathero  132ToSsGirL 89sSak 73sorry 72Backho 45[ Show more ] Counter-Strike Heroes of the Storm Other Games tarik_tv16934 singsing3126 B2W.Neo1911 FrodaN641 crisheroes459 DeMusliM430 Hui .238 Fuzer  211Mew2King201 XaKoH  123KnowMe85 djWHEAT60 Liquid`VortiX51 |
|
Big Brain Bouts
Replay Cast
SOOP Global
NightMare vs GuMiho
Classic vs SHIN
SOOP
NightMare vs Oliveira
SC Evo Complete
WardiTV Invitational
Ryung vs GuMiho
Cure vs TBD
MaxPax vs Trap
Solar vs ShoWTimE
SHIN vs TBD
Clem vs Spirit
3D!Clan Event
Wayne vs Shameless
Strange vs Nikich
MilkiCow vs Nicoract
MindelVK vs YoungYakov
CSO Cup
Replay Cast
Sparkling Tuna Cup
[ Show More ] |
|
|
EPT
