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On February 08 2012 19:29 turdburgler wrote:
maybe someone mentioned it already but i couldnt see but, WoW uses a single panel chat interface, and based on the fact that d3 is just a wow clone im 90% sure the chat will be the same. for those that dont know in wow, you have your chat menu which lists your channels in it. it will say [1. general] or [2. trade] before the words so you know which number to /x to use that channel and to leave it quickly. when you receive a pm in wow it comes up in either purple (with char name for in game /w) or in light blue (with real name for real id) you then have your party or raid and guild in different colours using the same format as above.
you are able to move different channels and private conversations to other 'tabs' of the same window similar. overall its a much better system than sc2 chat and for a game like diablo where theres a world around you its obviously required for there to be some kind of permanent chat pressence.
some people have said that "chat is part of battlenet so it wont change" while this is true, that the chat server is completely unrelated to the game server, its worth pointing out that currently the way sc2 and wow take and use that battle net chat data is very different, as outlined above. theres nothing you could read into comments made about diablo that have any baring on sc2.
Blizzard hit the nail on the head with WOW. There's no denying that how they have the chat set up is the only feasible way possible for a game such as WOW.
D3 has just a few people in each game though. The reason people are worried is D2 is just like SC and WC as far as chat goes. They're revamping D3's chat system to a shitty interface, and if they're doing that on a brand new game, despite customer feedback, I see no reason why they would change HOTS chat. At this point, the only way to get our point across is boycott their future products(HOTS, D3, etc).
On February 08 2012 19:34 Dhalphir wrote:
He seems to support the idea of player-made and player-moderated channels, but not public channels.
I'm okay with this. What's the problem?
The problem comes down to an alienated community. Trading channels, etc are gone. How many casual gamers are going to know about teamliquid and other forums? Not too many. They're now secluded to an awful interface where they can't trade beyond an auction house. Maybe that's the point to them... more money in their pocket possibly.
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On February 08 2012 19:34 Dhalphir wrote:
He seems to support the idea of player-made and player-moderated channels, but not public channels.
I'm okay with this. What's the problem?
Player-made channels create closed communities. They may spawn new communities of their own, but being subsets of the initial player community, they'll usually be small or short-lived or both.
Public channels create vibrant, open communities. They can spawn new communities which can potentially include all players, all interests, all attitudes, and they're a source for a constant influx of new people.
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Oh, so they don't see public chat channels as necessary? That thing Sc2 players moaned and groaned for until it finally got included?
Makes sense.
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On February 07 2012 22:06 Noobity wrote:
Frankly, if they never improve the UI it wont stop me from playing sc2 or any other blizzard games, and I get the feeling that I'm in the majority here (no, a thread on a forum with a few thousand posts does not equate a majority). I would much rather they devote money to a development team specifically for their games than their community. I prefer this current system to what war2/d1/d2/sc1 had, and while I'd probably prefer the war3 system, I'll take what I can get.
You may be in the majority on this website of people who are dedicated to the game. However in the pool of total players I would say you're in the minority. Just look at the numbers that play vs that at release. Look at your friends list.
I have a lot of friends that played BW and WC3 since they came out until SC2 came out. We all got SC2 and were very excited about the game. Six months after launch my list that had been full of people at release was totally dead. They all played through the single player and then saw that BNET had nothing more to offer them except ladder and moved on to other games.
Most are playing DOTA2 if they got a key and if not they are playing LoL while waiting for a DOTA2 key. Several including myself prefer the game of Starcraft to DOTA but the features of DOTA2, a game in BETA I might add, make it a much more enjoyable experience overall.
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I would like a better system, the way it assums you want to chat in lobby chat everytime you enter a lobby is especially annoying, leave me to type in the chatbox i am already in!
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On February 09 2012 02:31 Shockk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:34 Dhalphir wrote:
He seems to support the idea of player-made and player-moderated channels, but not public channels.
I'm okay with this. What's the problem? Player-made channels create closed communities. They may spawn new communities of their own, but being subsets of the initial player community, they'll usually be small or short-lived or both. Public channels create vibrant, open communities. They can spawn new communities which can potentially include all players, all interests, all attitudes, and they're a source for a constant influx of new people.
On the old battle.net, the only public communities were those you stumbled upon typing random things into chat channels. Otherwise, it was a public chat full of spam bots. Stop spreading this fantasy that forced chat somehow "builds community."
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On February 09 2012 03:05 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 02:31 Shockk wrote:On February 08 2012 19:34 Dhalphir wrote:
He seems to support the idea of player-made and player-moderated channels, but not public channels.
I'm okay with this. What's the problem? Player-made channels create closed communities. They may spawn new communities of their own, but being subsets of the initial player community, they'll usually be small or short-lived or both. Public channels create vibrant, open communities. They can spawn new communities which can potentially include all players, all interests, all attitudes, and they're a source for a constant influx of new people. On the old battle.net, the only public communities were those you stumbled upon typing random things into chat channels. Otherwise, it was a public chat full of spam bots. Stop spreading this fantasy that forced chat somehow "builds community."
Noone's denying that the old chat system wasn't perfect. But instead of working on the issues - e.g. finding a way to deal with bots - Blizzard just scrapped the system completely. Which would have been fine had they provided a decent alternative, but they haven't.
In the end, a substantial part of the discussion is highly subjective, as everyone used chat differently. Please note that while your experience with chat may not have been that great, there's a larger number of users that think differently, as is evident with all the UI threads and the support they're receiving.
You may not agree with the threads' notion, but at least respect our opinion. It's not just nostalgia, trust me. For some people, the chat model of SC/BW and WC3 actually did create a feeling of community which is missing from SC2, and will apparently also be missing from D3.
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On February 09 2012 03:05 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2012 02:31 Shockk wrote:On February 08 2012 19:34 Dhalphir wrote:
He seems to support the idea of player-made and player-moderated channels, but not public channels.
I'm okay with this. What's the problem? Player-made channels create closed communities. They may spawn new communities of their own, but being subsets of the initial player community, they'll usually be small or short-lived or both. Public channels create vibrant, open communities. They can spawn new communities which can potentially include all players, all interests, all attitudes, and they're a source for a constant influx of new people. On the old battle.net, the only public communities were those you stumbled upon typing random things into chat channels. Otherwise, it was a public chat full of spam bots. Stop spreading this fantasy that forced chat somehow "builds community."
I don't know about you, but I know when I type in random channels, I think of shit like "clan x17". :sigh:
So the spam bots that spammed channels 24/7 that created large communities is just a fantasy? I specifically remember trolling around in Clan Recruitment, and seeing a shit ton of channels spammed. Clan OD which comes to mind, and still exists in SC2 was one of them. Without these public channels, I would have never heard of them.
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On February 08 2012 19:34 Dhalphir wrote:
He seems to support the idea of player-made and player-moderated channels, but not public channels.
I'm okay with this. What's the problem?
He also says they won't be there for ship, so we have to deal with the traditional "on the way" routine from Blizzard while we wait for their implementation of a feature that will probably end up again being half-assed compared to our expectations.
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On February 07 2012 18:39 Gurgl wrote:
As I said, back in September, it’s unlikely to be anything we attain for ship, but the social group-type chat features are still very much a desire for the future.
How are people missing this point.. the game isn't about to be shipped, but they're already saying a chat channel is something that's not likely to ship?? WTF How lazy have they gotten, that's a serious question. A social game that can't ship with social functions but the developers will look to do it in the future? Just admit out loud your releasing a half finished game and be done with it. They released SC2's battle net half done, and it looks to be the same for D3.
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He basically just laid out Blizzard's viewpoint on open chat channels with "As far as having open public channels, there’s far more negative to them than positive and we maintain a stance that creating an open chat environment without a social structure behind it is an invitation for moderation and support disasters." I, for one, mostly agree with them. I don't care about open chat channels. They are basically worthless and a hang out spot for trolls and people with too much time on their hands (not mutually exclusive). Go to the open chat in something like Dota 2. Its only real use is determining whether the servers are fucked up or not (and its not even that great at that). Otherwise, its terrible, because its just random crap, because it has 0 moderation and it is the internet.
Obviously, most people seem disagree with this (in theory), and bitch about wanting open chat channels like B.net 1.0. The funny thing is you are on the Team Liquid forums, and if I had to guess, you are here because of the very solid moderation that goes on around here. There is a reason the battle.net forums suck, and it is because the sparse and loose moderation leads to almost unmitigated crap.
Moderation = good, no moderation = bad. As far as personally moderated channels goes, yes that is a good thing and something they plan to implement.
You can bitch about it all you want, and say Blizzard "isn't listening to their core audience" or however you want to term it, but they have made a stance, and it is a stance that is rooted in modern internet reality: open chat channels suck balls (go to a live stream chat if you need proof). They are making the game, you aren't, and you'll still probably buy it.
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On February 09 2012 04:27 HardlyNever wrote:
He basically just laid out Blizzard's viewpoint on open chat channels with "As far as having open public channels, there’s far more negative to them than positive and we maintain a stance that creating an open chat environment without a social structure behind it is an invitation for moderation and support disasters." I, for one, mostly agree with them. I don't care about open chat channels. They are basically worthless and a hang out spot for trolls and people with too much time on their hands (not mutually exclusive). Go to the open chat in something like Dota 2. Its only real use is determining whether the servers are fucked up or not (and its not even that great at that). Otherwise, its terrible, because its just random crap, because it has 0 moderation and it is the internet.
Obviously, most people seem disagree with this (in theory), and bitch about wanting open chat channels like B.net 1.0. The funny thing is you are on the Team Liquid forums, and if I had to guess, you are here because of the very solid moderation that goes on around here. There is a reason the battle.net forums suck, and it is because the sparse and loose moderation leads to almost unmitigated crap.
Moderation = good, no moderation = bad. As far as personally moderated channels goes, yes that is a good thing and something they plan to implement.
You can bitch about it all you want, and say Blizzard "isn't listening to their core audience" or however you want to term it, but they have made a stance, and it is a stance that is rooted in modern internet reality: open chat channels suck balls (go to a live stream chat if you need proof). They are making the game, you aren't, and you'll still probably buy it.
Completely agree here, I think a lot of people who are complaining didn't read the blizzard quote. There are some that want open chat channels but most people here are talking about guild channels, even though that was directly addressed in the article.
There are many private and public channels on Starcraft 2, sure we are lacking a guild system, but there are many chat channels that are very active right now, you just have to go look for them.
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I don't know if you typing Battle.net 0.2 was a mistake or on purpose, but I love it none the less! ^_^
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On February 09 2012 02:46 Disconnect wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 22:06 Noobity wrote:
Frankly, if they never improve the UI it wont stop me from playing sc2 or any other blizzard games, and I get the feeling that I'm in the majority here (no, a thread on a forum with a few thousand posts does not equate a majority). I would much rather they devote money to a development team specifically for their games than their community. I prefer this current system to what war2/d1/d2/sc1 had, and while I'd probably prefer the war3 system, I'll take what I can get.
You may be in the majority on this website of people who are dedicated to the game. However in the pool of total players I would say you're in the minority. Just look at the numbers that play vs that at release. Look at your friends list. I have a lot of friends that played BW and WC3 since they came out until SC2 came out. We all got SC2 and were very excited about the game. Six months after launch my list that had been full of people at release was totally dead. They all played through the single player and then saw that BNET had nothing more to offer them except ladder and moved on to other games. Most are playing DOTA2 if they got a key and if not they are playing LoL while waiting for a DOTA2 key. Several including myself prefer the game of Starcraft to DOTA but the features of DOTA2, a game in BETA I might add, make it a much more enjoyable experience overall.
If I may .. I'm just curious as to why a lot of people seem to be implying that going from SC2 to Dota2/HoN/LoL is a logical step. (Not the quoted post exactly, but it's the latest one that mentions it.) Totally different genre of game, totally different skillset, to me it's kind of like saying "Lots of people are jumping ship from WoW to Street Fighter X Tekken!"
The rest of the UI in Diablo 3 is top-notch and I have no doubt that the HotS UI will be as well. Blizzard UIs have always been top-notch despite little inconsistencies here and there. The lack of public chat channels doesn't bother me. It bothered me a little bit when they first announced it for SC2, but after they eventually added chat channels I used them for a couple weeks and then haven't touched them since. Most of my SC2 or gaming in general related communication these days is done via Skype. I'm probably in the minority though in that I don't play SC2 as a social experience, I join a random game, fight a random person, and move on to the next person and never really have any social interaction with them other than "gl hf" and "gg"
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imo really emberassing they are still stuck in bnet 0.2
i dont get it...is it so hard? :O
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Updated OP with new great information, good job SC2 and D3 community!
Good sign for SC2 chat in HOTS? :p
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Just saw his newest post. If they're putting Chat channels in D3 there's really no reason to not just copy the feature over to HoTS. They both use Bnet 2.0 after all! Either way their stance on it in general appears to have changed and Bashiok was completely unaware. Maybe some of the feedback reached the higher ups. Thread may need a title change!
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On February 09 2012 18:13 xBillehx wrote:
Just saw his newest post. If they're putting Chat channels in D3 there's really no reason to not just copy the feature over to HoTS. They both use Bnet 2.0 after all! Either way their stance on it in general appears to have changed and Bashiok was completely unaware. Maybe some of the feedback reached the higher ups. Thread may need a title change!
Do you really believe that Bashiok was unaware? He himself told that channels were already implemented in September (even if he some days ago claimed that his post was misunderstood by the community). More likely somebody higher-up had decided after September that the chat channels would not be included in the game. And now they just reversed that decision.
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In case nobody saw...
Bashiok wrote:
Soooooo... hey everyone. How's it going? Good? Weather ok? Great... so, right... You know how sometimes you say something that's stupid and wrong and then people very reasonably get upset and create a lot of threads and discussions and demands with some pretty reasonable reasons for the thing you said wouldn't happen but then it turns out that you're stupid and wrong and the things you said are completely the opposite of what's actually true?
Yeah. So that happened. Public chat channels will be in Diablo III, barring any catastrophe that requires we remove them, because they're already implemented. In fact they'll be in an upcoming beta patch so you'll get to see and play around with them yourselves.
I'm not sure I can offer any explanation as to the incorrectness of my statements, except that I believed them to be correct when I made them. I apologize, and I'll strive to not be stupid and wrong in the future.
More info on the chat feature, and others, to come in the weeks ahead. Thanks for sticking with it, and me.
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I'm pretty happy with the current chat system and I think it will make a good addition to Diablo 3.
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EPT
