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On February 07 2012 18:47 Shockk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 18:44 taitanik wrote:
im happy with chat system and i dont see nothing bad in it when i turn on sc2 i play when i need to chat with someone im not having any trouble Hey there; fine if SC2's system works for you. But please check out the thread on SC2's UI here on TL where we've gathered a lot of feedback and information. Both the UI in general and the chat could be so much better.
I personally like the UI, just like taitanik. I think it does just what I want it to do, and does it pretty well. So Bnet's UI isn't really a concern for me.
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They just didn't moderate them in the past and it worked fine.
You don't want public Channels? Just don't read them.
I don't like football (soccer)... And still i'm fine with others wasting their time watching it.
The Bnet UI basically does NOTHING.
It's a friendlist with a fiend match button.
Everything else was done better in WC3.
You had more stats.
You had a better chat system.
You had a better (actually working) custom game system).
.
.
You had a decent (NOT perfect) interface.
Bnet 2.0 is just worse, worse and worse.. BUT FACEBOOK INTEGRATIOOOON!! I wonder how much Facebook payed them for that...
I mean.. WHAT is there to like about Bnet 2.0 which wasn't possible in Bnet 1.0.
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Blizzard is so hit and miss.
Bw had multiplayer replays.
Wc3 had automated tournaments.
Sc2 has replay rollback.
Why, this is so illogical. Each game has a feature the other two don't.
You would expect the newer ones to have at least the same or better featurelist as the previous ones, not this retarded rollercoaster.
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On February 07 2012 20:23 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 20:08 Orracle wrote:On February 07 2012 19:58 Longshank wrote:
Anyone who's played D2 ever would know that the chat system and public channels there were atrocious. It was so incredibly bad that it's mind-boggling that people are actually whining when they decides to improve upon it for D3. Seriously some of you whinge just for the sake of it. First off, Trading and PKing were essentially what D2 became about. Trading channels, like Lod Ladder Trading USWest-1, etc were still used, even when bots flooded it. Second off, Blizzard has revamped their account system. So if a person really wants to run a spam bot for a couple days before it's banned and has to shell out $60, so be it. There is no improvement involved. It's stripping a system that worked just fine, into next to nothing. The trading channels didn't work 'fine'. They existed solely because it was the only way to trade, an issue which is now fixed in D3. I know for certain that I won't miss getting thrown into LoD SWE -1 when logging in, and that's not due to any bots. No tears will be shed. The community made channels were the only ones usable for people above the age of 13. Those public channels would be hell to moderate and I can't blame Blizzard for having better things to do than to babysit them.
Agreed. I don't bother joining any of the available channels on Starcraft2. I do join a few practice channels. The only chat function I'm missing in SC2 is lack of moderation in private channels as well as lack of guild/clan support (also missing from D3 launch..).
If they fixed the custom game finding ability that would go a long way (but I still think they're holding out to find a way to mild us for some sort of fee first).
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On February 07 2012 20:37 PlosionCornu wrote:
Blizzard is so hit and miss.
Bw had multiplayer replays.
Wc3 had automated tournaments.
Sc2 has replay rollback.
Why, this is so illogical.
I love you, man.
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On February 07 2012 20:37 y0su wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 20:23 Longshank wrote:On February 07 2012 20:08 Orracle wrote:On February 07 2012 19:58 Longshank wrote:
Anyone who's played D2 ever would know that the chat system and public channels there were atrocious. It was so incredibly bad that it's mind-boggling that people are actually whining when they decides to improve upon it for D3. Seriously some of you whinge just for the sake of it. First off, Trading and PKing were essentially what D2 became about. Trading channels, like Lod Ladder Trading USWest-1, etc were still used, even when bots flooded it. Second off, Blizzard has revamped their account system. So if a person really wants to run a spam bot for a couple days before it's banned and has to shell out $60, so be it. There is no improvement involved. It's stripping a system that worked just fine, into next to nothing. The trading channels didn't work 'fine'. They existed solely because it was the only way to trade, an issue which is now fixed in D3. I know for certain that I won't miss getting thrown into LoD SWE -1 when logging in, and that's not due to any bots. No tears will be shed. The community made channels were the only ones usable for people above the age of 13. Those public channels would be hell to moderate and I can't blame Blizzard for having better things to do than to babysit them. Agreed. I don't bother joining any of the available channels on Starcraft2. I do join a few practice channels. The only chat function I'm missing in SC2 is lack of moderation in private channels as well as lack of guild/clan support (also missing from D3 launch..). If they fixed the custom game finding ability that would go a long way (but I still think they're holding out to find a way to mild us for some sort of fee first).
Yeah I agree, those things should be added asap,
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![[image loading]](http://media.wowstead.com/attachments/thumbnails/159/313/650/372/634252388214136425.jpg)
well they did integrate the chat channels but they are not as good as the old bnet chat channels
also it is still not possible to watch replays together with friends or create clans
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The problem is that Blizzard stopped developing for PC gamers a long time ago. SC2, D3 and the later WoW expansions are not aimed at the same people that D1,D2, SC1, WC3 and early WoW was aimed at.
To explain what i mean:
In recent years the gaming market has exploded. Farmville is a big culprit (is it even a game?) - anyone who has Facebook can use it and be exposed to it. And that's a lot of people.
Console games as well - people who wouldnt want to be one of those nerdy computer gamers will happily play a game on the xbox or ps3. You don't need to worry about anything like having a decent mouse, monitor and generally a good computer (also loads of people prefer laptops, which aren't great for PC gaming), you don't need much manual dexterity to pick up a game and be decent at it, and most importantly you can invite your friends round and you can all play together.
WoW (and similar games, but mainly WoW) have also become very popular. You can make friends very quickly, there's a lot of fun things to do in the gameworld, it's not too hard but you can still be better or worse at it than others, and if you play it a little bit, you'll want to put more time in so you can do more stuff later.
At the same time, there were a bunch of market experts who noticed this trend and started advising game producing companies on how to maximise profits. So now we see things like achievements. Achievements are basically a way turn a game into an RPG. You do something that's maybe a bit boring, time-consuming or just plain hard and at the end of it a big shiny box appears on the screen and tells you what a god damn baller you are - so subconciously you think "hmm this activity is worth it" and continue playing. In fact you continue playing until the next DLC or expansion comes out, and you are more likely to buy it. And all the time while you are pursuing the essentially pointless goal of having more big shiny boxes than your friends, you are a part of the game's community and helping to spread the word about this game, ensuring more people will buy it.
OK, so now back to Blizzard. Blizzard marketing employees have been to seminar where a man told them how to make shittons of money from games (why the makers of WoW listened to anyone but themselves is beyond me). So now we have achievements in Blizzard games, a frankly odd league system that tells you kind of how good you are but also how much you play in comparison to 99 random people who most likely you will never meet in game. We also have them employing a man who made the UI for a very successful console game to do it for SC2, and we have no LAN support because they are worried that someone will simply implement a better system than Battlenet and everyone will use that.
The problem is this: Blizzard have forgotten that they are Blizzard. They were a massively successful company before achievement points. They just don't operate on the same business model as the shitty console developer companies who use artificial means to keep players interested in and buying their games. People are still buying WC3, SC1 and D2! That is how Blizzard has always worked. They make such a damn good game that people are still buying and playing it 15 years on.
They employed that console UI guy for these reasons:
1. That the UIs he designed before were actually good, and not just better than previous console game UIs
2. That the success of that game was based on the UI
3. That a UI designed for consoles would be able to do a good job for PC
4. That there was a problem with the UIs of previous Blizzard titles.
They did not implement LAN for these reasons:
1. They were worried that an independent service such as hamachi, garena or ICCUP would spring up and supplant battle.net 2.0
2. That independant services such as these hurt sales and recognition of previous Blizzard titles.
3. That Battle.net 2.0 would be so bad that a small bunch of amateur progammers could do a better job (oh wait!)
Sorry for the rant.
TLDR: ofc i'm still gonna buy D3 and HotS, but i'll be very annoyed that my purchase of said games will validate Blizz's new ideas on how to make games.
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On February 07 2012 18:39 Gurgl wrote:This is what Blizzard CM Bashiok had to say regarding the chatsystem for their upcoming game Diablo 3, which will be played on Battlenet 0.2 just like Starcraft 2. " It seems there’s been some confusion taken from the above statement I made back in September. The chat in Diablo III is exactly as I described, you do all of it in a single window. StarCraft II has a system where each chat is broken out into a separate window, chat program-style, but Diablo III keeps it all in one. The same single window that’s used for chat when you eventually jump into a game, too.
As far as having open public channels, there’s far more negative to them than positive and we maintain a stance that creating an open chat environment without a social structure behind it is an invitation for moderation and support disasters. Most people that want chat channels though are referring to guild channels, or otherwise channels they themselves can operate and choose to invite others to, and we see those as completely valid forms of chat (there’s a social structure backing the channel). As I said, back in September, it’s unlikely to be anything we attain for ship, but the social group-type chat features are still very much a desire for the future. " The reason I post this here on the SC2 forum is because both D3 and SC2 players are in the same boat regarding being stuck on Battlenet 0.2. I thought this might interest some of you fellow Starcrafters who aren't following the D3 development, since it might be an indication of them not being very eager to improve the SC2 chat in the near future. I'm a Starcrafter myself but I'm also a big fan of the Diablo series. It seems they haven't taken the feedback from SC2 players regarding the terrible chatsystem very seriously since they are giving D3 players the same shitty system. Needless to say there are many D3 fans who are far from happy with this announcement. Can Blizzard do whatever they want and we'll still buy and play their games? or is there a way the Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 communities can unite and convince Blizzard to improve the chatsystem? We are in the same boat regarding this afterall. Bashioks original statement: http://blues.incgamers.com/Posts/10/1/40/819/147519/the-lack-of-a-general-chat-just-sucks#postId_399627
For some reason posts I have read in the past make me think that this post is 100% wrong.
Chat system will remain the same from WoL to HoTS.
Chat system in D3 will be more similar to WoW.
They haven't taken the feedback because the game is already sold....
Obviously they can do what the please. Think of almost every game company now. They just grind out games in shit quality for the big bucks. New COD every week. RPG expansions (not D3 as of yet) that are just a shell of the former game with some changed storyline, but an overall weaker and shorter game experience. People keep buying because they want a new fix, and these game companies want you to want a new fix. If I play D2 LOD 1000 times it doesn't earn them 1000 times the money, but if I purchase D1 through D1000 they do. I hope D3 rocks though cuz they sure did mess up with SC2
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Diablo 3 not having public chat has more to do with forcing people to use the auction house, preferably the real money one.
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United States871 Posts
Now, I read the other thread as well, and I sincerely think a lot of this is blown out of proportion.
I'm not saying that there's nothing Blizzard can do that would make things better, and I'm also not saying that some of the decisions they made originally were silly, but this doom and gloom that we're seeing all over the place is a little much. The important thing about a Blizzard game is the game, this is where they shine. They make high quality games, that take forever to come out, but have constant support.
Now I've been playing Blizzard games multiplayer since the original war2, this meant I needed to use my 56k modem to dial into my buddy's 56k modem and use the mouse to charade my way through words with him before the games began to plan our strategy against the impossible AI. It's entirely possible that I'm just happy we're not still in that era.
Frankly, if they never improve the UI it wont stop me from playing sc2 or any other blizzard games, and I get the feeling that I'm in the majority here (no, a thread on a forum with a few thousand posts does not equate a majority). I would much rather they devote money to a development team specifically for their games than their community. I prefer this current system to what war2/d1/d2/sc1 had, and while I'd probably prefer the war3 system, I'll take what I can get.
One thing you can't say about sBlizzard is that they don't try new things, as every single incarnation of BNET UI since it's inception has been pretty drastically different. Sometimes this means you've got a time where they try something that doesn't work out and are determined to give it their best shot before scrapping it for the more tried and true.
All I'm saying is that while this system is not yet perfect, it's not abysmal either.
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United States5162 Posts
On February 07 2012 22:06 Noobity wrote:
Now, I read the other thread as well, and I sincerely think a lot of this is blown out of proportion.
I'm not saying that there's nothing Blizzard can do that would make things better, and I'm also not saying that some of the decisions they made originally were silly, but this doom and gloom that we're seeing all over the place is a little much. The important thing about a Blizzard game is the game, this is where they shine. They make high quality games, that take forever to come out, but have constant support.
Now I've been playing Blizzard games multiplayer since the original war2, this meant I needed to use my 56k modem to dial into my buddy's 56k modem and use the mouse to charade my way through words with him before the games began to plan our strategy against the impossible AI. It's entirely possible that I'm just happy we're not still in that era.
Frankly, if they never improve the UI it wont stop me from playing sc2 or any other blizzard games, and I get the feeling that I'm in the majority here (no, a thread on a forum with a few thousand posts does not equate a majority). I would much rather they devote money to a development team specifically for their games than their community. I prefer this current system to what war2/d1/d2/sc1 had, and while I'd probably prefer the war3 system, I'll take what I can get.
One thing you can't say about sBlizzard is that they don't try new things, as every single incarnation of BNET UI since it's inception has been pretty drastically different. Sometimes this means you've got a time where they try something that doesn't work out and are determined to give it their best shot before scrapping it for the more tried and true.
All I'm saying is that while this system is not yet perfect, it's not abysmal either.
If all you want to do is play ladder, the system works great. If you want to do anything else, it's abysmal.
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On February 07 2012 22:06 Noobity wrote:
Now, I read the other thread as well, and I sincerely think a lot of this is blown out of proportion.
I'm not saying that there's nothing Blizzard can do that would make things better, and I'm also not saying that some of the decisions they made originally were silly, but this doom and gloom that we're seeing all over the place is a little much. The important thing about a Blizzard game is the game, this is where they shine. They make high quality games, that take forever to come out, but have constant support.
Now I've been playing Blizzard games multiplayer since the original war2, this meant I needed to use my 56k modem to dial into my buddy's 56k modem and use the mouse to charade my way through words with him before the games began to plan our strategy against the impossible AI. It's entirely possible that I'm just happy we're not still in that era.
Frankly, if they never improve the UI it wont stop me from playing sc2 or any other blizzard games, and I get the feeling that I'm in the majority here (no, a thread on a forum with a few thousand posts does not equate a majority). I would much rather they devote money to a development team specifically for their games than their community. I prefer this current system to what war2/d1/d2/sc1 had, and while I'd probably prefer the war3 system, I'll take what I can get.
One thing you can't say about sBlizzard is that they don't try new things, as every single incarnation of BNET UI since it's inception has been pretty drastically different. Sometimes this means you've got a time where they try something that doesn't work out and are determined to give it their best shot before scrapping it for the more tried and true.
All I'm saying is that while this system is not yet perfect, it's not abysmal either.
Very well illustrated point and I have to say that I agree (to some extent)
I personally think that the UI is not the best for feeling like you are with a community of gamers in the game but the way it is designed still allows you to do the most basic and essential things you need. I would love to see improvements towards better chat channels, easier access to Online tournaments and generally features that were included in Battle.net 1.0.
I think it is good that the community is vocal about the issues with the new battle.net but I agree with you that it is by no means abysmal.
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On February 07 2012 22:06 Noobity wrote:
Now, I read the other thread as well, and I sincerely think a lot of this is blown out of proportion.
I'm not saying that there's nothing Blizzard can do that would make things better, and I'm also not saying that some of the decisions they made originally were silly, but this doom and gloom that we're seeing all over the place is a little much. The important thing about a Blizzard game is the game, this is where they shine. They make high quality games, that take forever to come out, but have constant support.
Now I've been playing Blizzard games multiplayer since the original war2, this meant I needed to use my 56k modem to dial into my buddy's 56k modem and use the mouse to charade my way through words with him before the games began to plan our strategy against the impossible AI. It's entirely possible that I'm just happy we're not still in that era.
Frankly, if they never improve the UI it wont stop me from playing sc2 or any other blizzard games, and I get the feeling that I'm in the majority here (no, a thread on a forum with a few thousand posts does not equate a majority). I would much rather they devote money to a development team specifically for their games than their community. I prefer this current system to what war2/d1/d2/sc1 had, and while I'd probably prefer the war3 system, I'll take what I can get.
One thing you can't say about sBlizzard is that they don't try new things, as every single incarnation of BNET UI since it's inception has been pretty drastically different. Sometimes this means you've got a time where they try something that doesn't work out and are determined to give it their best shot before scrapping it for the more tried and true.
All I'm saying is that while this system is not yet perfect, it's not abysmal either.
And thats the problem, most of us (including me) will buy their product, and they can get away with their incompetence(i believe thats appropriate word), WoW, SC2 had multitude of problems that still didnt press the overall judgement of the product. Its like Cola company making new version of Coca Cola (worse) and because there is no Pepsi everyone will still drink it. They are just enjoying their monopoly.
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On February 07 2012 18:47 Orracle wrote:
I'm not sure why in the hell they screw up a system that has been around so long and has so much positive feedback.
People have spoke about how they prefer the older chat style, and with a fresh game such as D3, I see no reason why they would ignore it.
I for one will not be buying HOTS until they start listening to customer feedback. The thing is, if customers keep buying their products, even with an awful interface, I see no reason why they should bother changing.
Did you only buy SC2 to have a 60$ msn messenger or a downgraded skype? People play SC2 and will buy HOTS because there is a game behind the chat system, and believe it or not, most of the money you spend on the game goes towards that (and not the chat channels). A lot of people just want to log on and mass games on ladder without socializing 1 hour between each game. If you really need that social aspects, free softwares like skype/ventrilo/teamspeak are out there and they are far better than anything you need as a clan/team/group of friends.
Yes, the SC2 chat system sucks, but you don't boycott a game for a really minor feature. There are other reasons for you to boycott it, but don't put it on the UI.
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Sigh. All this shit just makes me happy I am old enough to have played Blizzard's older games when they were new. I feel sorry for kids who have to grow up with this mediocrity.
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The only thing I really miss about the last incarnation of Battle.net is the automated touranments. That was fun. I'd really like to see that make a comeback.
At first I didn't like the idea of not having chat channels and it seemed to make the game feel more empty, but once they added chat channels and once I went and played other MP games with chat channels, I started to sympathize with Blizzard a lot more. The internet has always been somewhat of a cesspool in some regards, but it's gotten soooo much worse these last few years. It used to be that if you beat someone and they got a little salty or they owned you and had no manners they'd talk a little smack and that would be it. Now in that same situation people will tell you to go kill yourself because you're not good enough at a game, tell you that they hope your mom gets cancer, all kinds of garbage, chat channels are filled with racism, etc.
Guild/Clan/Whatever channels are great, and they should implement them in some sort of official way, but I totally understand Blizzard not wanting to have anything to do with public chat channels. Heck I'm a very outgoing person and *I* want as little interaction as possible with the general population of Battle.net.
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just compare the chat in any stream there is on team liquid and the actual ingame sc2 general chat, something is wrong.
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I'm actually not surprised, I mean they barely made BNET 2.0 better since SC2 release, I don't expect much to change anymore
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On February 07 2012 22:06 Noobity wrote:
Now, I read the other thread as well, and I sincerely think a lot of this is blown out of proportion.
I'm not saying that there's nothing Blizzard can do that would make things better, and I'm also not saying that some of the decisions they made originally were silly, but this doom and gloom that we're seeing all over the place is a little much. The important thing about a Blizzard game is the game, this is where they shine. They make high quality games, that take forever to come out, but have constant support.
Now I've been playing Blizzard games multiplayer since the original war2, this meant I needed to use my 56k modem to dial into my buddy's 56k modem and use the mouse to charade my way through words with him before the games began to plan our strategy against the impossible AI. It's entirely possible that I'm just happy we're not still in that era.
Frankly, if they never improve the UI it wont stop me from playing sc2 or any other blizzard games, and I get the feeling that I'm in the majority here (no, a thread on a forum with a few thousand posts does not equate a majority). I would much rather they devote money to a development team specifically for their games than their community. I prefer this current system to what war2/d1/d2/sc1 had, and while I'd probably prefer the war3 system, I'll take what I can get.
One thing you can't say about sBlizzard is that they don't try new things, as every single incarnation of BNET UI since it's inception has been pretty drastically different. Sometimes this means you've got a time where they try something that doesn't work out and are determined to give it their best shot before scrapping it for the more tried and true.
All I'm saying is that while this system is not yet perfect, it's not abysmal either.
I agree, this community is extremely entitled and anything that isn't "perfect" to them is "awful". All the features that everyone is clamoring for regarding b.net are not must-haves, but nice-to-have (note that LAN is excepted from this)
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