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On February 07 2012 19:10 Torte de Lini wrote:Talk about heavy cherry-picking: Show nested quote +Most people that want chat channels though are referring to guild channels, or otherwise channels they themselves can operate and choose to invite others to, and we see those as completely valid forms of chat (there's a social structure backing the channel). As I said, back in September, it's unlikely to be anything we attain for ship, but the social group-type chat features are still very much a desire for the future. At least quote the whole thing, ( Thanks Shockk for the link) http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015163779?page=1#20General chat may go, but guild channels and such are still under the radar
But the issue remains: Guild and private chats support existing communities and contacts. But actually meeting people without a general chat becomes a real challenge. I'll quote this well written reply from the D3 boards:
I'm just going to come straight out and say, as a player, I think you're wrong.
It's hard to really have a community without open public chat channels. There was almost no moderation, if any, in the D2 public channels. There just needs to be watering-hole type areas for people to gather and meet and discuss and talk about the game.
I mean how are you supposed to just randomly meet people in D3 or recruit? Just hope the 3 people in your D3 games take the time to talk to you while franatically hacking down monsters? It just doesn't happen. Everyone is too focused on gaming while in the game.
It just seems like you guys are making the EXACT SAME mistake you made with SC2 and almost flat out going out of your way to impair community building. YOU HAVE TO HAVE PUBLIC CHAT CHANNELS IN AN ONLINE GAME.
It's not an option to me. I just don't see how you guys can make such a folly of a decision to not have public chat channels in an online action RPG or similar game where community is important.
Please, please, for everything that is good in having a strong community, reconsider putting public chat channels back in. There's simply no other way to foster good community building. Almost nobody really friends people off of random public games because the majority won't even talk in them due to the way the combat flows.
Edit: I know why you don't want them. Botters, phishers, spammers, trolls ect ect ect. I'm sorry, but you guys need to suck it up and attempt to deal with those issues. You can't hack off a guy's arm because you're out of bandaids for the papercut he got.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015163779?page=10#183
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On February 07 2012 19:12 Gurgl wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 19:06 Torte de Lini wrote:On February 07 2012 19:01 Gurgl wrote:On February 07 2012 18:55 Torte de Lini wrote:The reason I post this here on the SC2 forum is because both D3 and SC2 players are in the same boat regarding being stuck on Battlenet 0.2. I thought this might interest some of you fellow Starcrafters who aren't following the D3 development, since it might be an indication of them not being very eager to improve the SC2 chat in the near future. Except D3 and SC2 are not developed by the same people, just under the same category. The chat system may work for D3, but perhaps not so well for SC2 HOTS. A bit too paranoid. He just confirmed that the D3 chat will be like the SC2 chat but in one window instead of popup windows for the chat. There also won't be any public channels like there was on Bnet 1.0. If you've played Diablo then you know that the chatsystem for Diablo 2 and Starcraft 1 work very similarly. A bit too uninformed. Can we have a source of when this was said? Time matters when this was said. Additionally, isn't B.net developed not by Diablo developers or StarCraft II but Battle.net developers? How is this in relation to HOTS? They're talking about Diablo here and it doesn't reflect the choices that a whole new team of developers will make on HOTS. Uninformed? There's no information rofl, it's stretching ideas past the post and hoping it'll hold under the guide that if they do it to D3, then the entire body of the company will follow suit with HOTS despite the company separated by franchises and different developers. Thanks Shock for the timestamp, so this is recent!The case is still the same though, what they do to D3 doesn't necessarily mean anything about HOTS. The people making D3 aren't all the same people working on HOTS and the chat system will vary depending on the game (just like D3 has no general chat and WOL has a general chat + more) The chatsystem is more tied to Battlenet than the actual game. SC1 ,D2 and WC3 used Bnet 1.0 and had pretty much identical chatsystems with public channels etc. SC2 and D3 are both using Bnet 0.2 and and from his statement are going to have pretty much identical chatsystems. Original Bashiok post: http://blues.incgamers.com/Posts/10/1/40/819/147519/the-lack-of-a-general-chat-just-sucks#postId_399627
Thanks for the source.
Isn't it contradictory to base Blizzard actions on having similar battle.net chat system on all three of a previous generation of games when they completely revised the whole of B.net + chat and even showing variations of how the chat system will function based on the game?
He doesn't say anything about HOTS and if anything at all, that would be intended.
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On February 07 2012 19:12 Shockk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 19:10 Torte de Lini wrote:Talk about heavy cherry-picking: Most people that want chat channels though are referring to guild channels, or otherwise channels they themselves can operate and choose to invite others to, and we see those as completely valid forms of chat (there's a social structure backing the channel). As I said, back in September, it's unlikely to be anything we attain for ship, but the social group-type chat features are still very much a desire for the future. At least quote the whole thing, ( Thanks Shockk for the link) http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015163779?page=1#20General chat may go, but guild channels and such are still under the radar But the issue remains: Guild and private chats support existing communities and contacts. But actually meeting people without a general chat becomes a real challenge. I'll quote this well written reply from the D3 boards: Show nested quote +I'm just going to come straight out and say, as a player, I think you're wrong.
It's hard to really have a community without open public chat channels. There was almost no moderation, if any, in the D2 public channels. There just needs to be watering-hole type areas for people to gather and meet and discuss and talk about the game.
I mean how are you supposed to just randomly meet people in D3 or recruit? Just hope the 3 people in your D3 games take the time to talk to you while franatically hacking down monsters? It just doesn't happen. Everyone is too focused on gaming while in the game.
It just seems like you guys are making the EXACT SAME mistake you made with SC2 and almost flat out going out of your way to impair community building. YOU HAVE TO HAVE PUBLIC CHAT CHANNELS IN AN ONLINE GAME.
It's not an option to me. I just don't see how you guys can make such a folly of a decision to not have public chat channels in an online action RPG or similar game where community is important.
Please, please, for everything that is good in having a strong community, reconsider putting public chat channels back in. There's simply no other way to foster good community building. Almost nobody really friends people off of random public games because the majority won't even talk in them due to the way the combat flows.
Edit: I know why you don't want them. Botters, phishers, spammers, trolls ect ect ect. I'm sorry, but you guys need to suck it up and attempt to deal with those issues. You can't hack off a guy's arm because you're out of bandaids for the papercut he got. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015163779?page=10#183
Look, I'm not disagreeing with the need of public chat channels, it isn't even the topic at-hand and look at the discussion questions the OP makes.
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On February 07 2012 19:10 Torte de Lini wrote:Talk about heavy cherry-picking: Show nested quote +Most people that want chat channels though are referring to guild channels, or otherwise channels they themselves can operate and choose to invite others to, and we see those as completely valid forms of chat (there's a social structure backing the channel). As I said, back in September, it's unlikely to be anything we attain for ship, but the social group-type chat features are still very much a desire for the future. At least quote the whole thing, ( Thanks Shockk for the link) http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015163779?page=1#20General chat may go, but guild channels and such are still under the radar
As silly as it may sound, I think Blizzard is understaffed in the battle.net department. Since it's always "we hope to add X later, and Y for the future. "
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On February 07 2012 19:17 Seiniyta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 19:10 Torte de Lini wrote:Talk about heavy cherry-picking: Most people that want chat channels though are referring to guild channels, or otherwise channels they themselves can operate and choose to invite others to, and we see those as completely valid forms of chat (there's a social structure backing the channel). As I said, back in September, it's unlikely to be anything we attain for ship, but the social group-type chat features are still very much a desire for the future. At least quote the whole thing, ( Thanks Shockk for the link) http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015163779?page=1#20General chat may go, but guild channels and such are still under the radar As silly as it may sound, I think Blizzard is understaffed in the battle.net department. Since it's always "we hope to add X later, and Y for the future. "
It's probably more prioritizing than anything else imo.
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On February 07 2012 19:14 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 19:12 Gurgl wrote:On February 07 2012 19:06 Torte de Lini wrote:On February 07 2012 19:01 Gurgl wrote:On February 07 2012 18:55 Torte de Lini wrote:The reason I post this here on the SC2 forum is because both D3 and SC2 players are in the same boat regarding being stuck on Battlenet 0.2. I thought this might interest some of you fellow Starcrafters who aren't following the D3 development, since it might be an indication of them not being very eager to improve the SC2 chat in the near future. Except D3 and SC2 are not developed by the same people, just under the same category. The chat system may work for D3, but perhaps not so well for SC2 HOTS. A bit too paranoid. He just confirmed that the D3 chat will be like the SC2 chat but in one window instead of popup windows for the chat. There also won't be any public channels like there was on Bnet 1.0. If you've played Diablo then you know that the chatsystem for Diablo 2 and Starcraft 1 work very similarly. A bit too uninformed. Can we have a source of when this was said? Time matters when this was said. Additionally, isn't B.net developed not by Diablo developers or StarCraft II but Battle.net developers? How is this in relation to HOTS? They're talking about Diablo here and it doesn't reflect the choices that a whole new team of developers will make on HOTS. Uninformed? There's no information rofl, it's stretching ideas past the post and hoping it'll hold under the guide that if they do it to D3, then the entire body of the company will follow suit with HOTS despite the company separated by franchises and different developers. Thanks Shock for the timestamp, so this is recent!The case is still the same though, what they do to D3 doesn't necessarily mean anything about HOTS. The people making D3 aren't all the same people working on HOTS and the chat system will vary depending on the game (just like D3 has no general chat and WOL has a general chat + more) The chatsystem is more tied to Battlenet than the actual game. SC1 ,D2 and WC3 used Bnet 1.0 and had pretty much identical chatsystems with public channels etc. SC2 and D3 are both using Bnet 0.2 and and from his statement are going to have pretty much identical chatsystems. Original Bashiok post: http://blues.incgamers.com/Posts/10/1/40/819/147519/the-lack-of-a-general-chat-just-sucks#postId_399627 Thanks for the source. Isn't it contradictory to base Blizzard actions on having similar battle.net chat system on all three of a previous generation of games when they completely revised the whole of B.net + chat and even showing variations of how the chat system will function based on the game? He doesn't say anything about HOTS and if anything at all, that would be intended.
I'm not stating any facts regarding the chat in HOTS. The chatsystem for Diablo 3, which still doesn't have a release date, is going to be like the current chatsystem in SC2. To me that is a bad sign for the chatsystem in HOTS aswell since if they were improving the chatsystem they would likely do it for both games because the chatsystem is tied to Bnet 0.2 which both games use.
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On February 07 2012 19:15 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 19:12 Shockk wrote:On February 07 2012 19:10 Torte de Lini wrote:Talk about heavy cherry-picking: Most people that want chat channels though are referring to guild channels, or otherwise channels they themselves can operate and choose to invite others to, and we see those as completely valid forms of chat (there's a social structure backing the channel). As I said, back in September, it's unlikely to be anything we attain for ship, but the social group-type chat features are still very much a desire for the future. At least quote the whole thing, ( Thanks Shockk for the link) http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015163779?page=1#20General chat may go, but guild channels and such are still under the radar But the issue remains: Guild and private chats support existing communities and contacts. But actually meeting people without a general chat becomes a real challenge. I'll quote this well written reply from the D3 boards: I'm just going to come straight out and say, as a player, I think you're wrong.
It's hard to really have a community without open public chat channels. There was almost no moderation, if any, in the D2 public channels. There just needs to be watering-hole type areas for people to gather and meet and discuss and talk about the game.
I mean how are you supposed to just randomly meet people in D3 or recruit? Just hope the 3 people in your D3 games take the time to talk to you while franatically hacking down monsters? It just doesn't happen. Everyone is too focused on gaming while in the game.
It just seems like you guys are making the EXACT SAME mistake you made with SC2 and almost flat out going out of your way to impair community building. YOU HAVE TO HAVE PUBLIC CHAT CHANNELS IN AN ONLINE GAME.
It's not an option to me. I just don't see how you guys can make such a folly of a decision to not have public chat channels in an online action RPG or similar game where community is important.
Please, please, for everything that is good in having a strong community, reconsider putting public chat channels back in. There's simply no other way to foster good community building. Almost nobody really friends people off of random public games because the majority won't even talk in them due to the way the combat flows.
Edit: I know why you don't want them. Botters, phishers, spammers, trolls ect ect ect. I'm sorry, but you guys need to suck it up and attempt to deal with those issues. You can't hack off a guy's arm because you're out of bandaids for the papercut he got. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015163779?page=10#183 Look, I'm not disagreeing with the need of public chat channels, it isn't even the topic at-hand and look at the discussion questions the OP makes.
Well, I did, and I think his concern is valid. We had horrible community features in the SC2 beta, Blizzard didn't listen, and the game was released with glaring flaws which mostly weren't fixed or adressed to this point. We're having exactly the same routine now happening in D3. Regardless of whether or not the same teams work on either games, it's not too far fetched to assume that we'll be looking at a similar development for HotS.
I interpret Bashiok's statements not as D3 exclusive, but rather as the company stance on their games as a whole. It's always been like that.
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It's simple, some1 buy the game and stream it to see if Blizzard delivered, if they didn't, try to boycott Blizzard by making tons of threads all over the net about how much Battlenet 0.000002 sucks . If Blizzard sees that they are hurt economicaly ( even tho they will make tons of money even with the shitty chat model anyways ), they would probably create a decent chat support...
You can bitch about it on and on, but if you just talk and talk and then buy the game, you simply approved their product, your whining is invalid. Don't buy the game ( after you've seen extensive gameplay ), and if more people choose to not buy the game, who knows, maybe in a patch or two they will change. You must convince tons of possible buyers to wait until Blizzard delivers what we desire ( what in fact is not really hard to create, they did in 2000, if they wanted, they could make something 10 times as awesome than the Battlenet 1.0 , instead of something 10 times worse than it ).
Problem is, Diablo3 doesn't have it's competition that it requires for Blizzard to deliver the best thing possible... I don't think I'm the only one who was totally in love with Diablo2,LoD and totally "prayed to God" that some1 will make Diablo3 which should be even more awesome than D2LOD...But seeing how much of a f*ck they give about us, the PC gamers, I don't see why we should support them, as consumers, our only power is to simply not buy it....If they don't deliver please guys DO NOT BUY IT, and if you do, DON'T MAKE THREADS ABOUT HOW CHAT SUPPORT IS AWEFULL.
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Here's what I disagree with: Saying that based on Diablo III choice of chat features, HOTS will thus have the same features (despite 0 updates or even mention of what they're going to do).
Here's what I agree with: Advocating to Blizzard to give a public statement about what the chat system will look like in HOTS.
I'm saying don't jump to a conclusion, but rather consider the possibility and press for more details rather than open stupid discussion questions like the OP.
Good night (I'm going to sleep, nearly 5:30 a.m)
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Get your shit together, blizzard.
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On February 07 2012 19:25 Torte de Lini wrote:
Here's what I disagree with: Saying that based on Diablo III choice of chat features, HOTS will thus have the same features (despite 0 updates or even mention of what they're going to do).
Here's what I agree with: Advocating to Blizzard to give a public statement about what the chat system will look like in HOTS.
I'm saying don't jump to a conclusion, but rather consider the possibility and press for more details rather than open stupid discussion questions like the OP.
Good night (I'm going to sleep, nearly 5:30 a.m)
You seem to ignore all of the development of social features in Blizzard games with the last two WoW addons, SC2 and now D3 just for the sake of discussion. Of course it could be that we'll see something completely different for HotS, but three whole years of vague community manager statements and little to no goodwill except for the lackluster SC2 chat speak otherwise.
Asking Blizzard for a statement on chat is just one part of the many pleas for attention and improvement they've ignored since the SC2 Beta. Even if it came, it'd be another vague "We'd like to ... yadda ... horizon ... yadda ... future plans."
And please don't call other people's incentive to start discussions "stupid" as long as you're arguing just for the sake of it and while ignoring all background development.
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Clan support needs to come...it's gotten a bit ridiculous.
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On February 07 2012 19:25 Torte de Lini wrote:
Here's what I disagree with: Saying that based on Diablo III choice of chat features, HOTS will thus have the same features (despite 0 updates or even mention of what they're going to do).
Here's what I agree with: Advocating to Blizzard to give a public statement about what the chat system will look like in HOTS.
I'm saying don't jump to a conclusion, but rather consider the possibility and press for more details rather than open stupid discussion questions like the OP.
Good night (I'm going to sleep, nearly 5:30 a.m)
It has been near two years since SC2 has been out. Still no improvement to battle.net, other than them literally adding a shitty chat system AFTER releasing the game. If they have no plans to implement a normal chat system on a NEW game that hasn't been released yet, why in the world would they add one to HOTS when they can just piggyback off the shit they currently have implemented?
People have constantly harassed Blizzard about when they plan on adding X, Y, Z, and their answer is the same every time. "We have plans to release it in the future."
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They don't want public and open chat channels in d3 because that could potentially be an apt way for botters and famers to spam their item selling sites, which is against what they are trying to do with the RMAH.
Just think about this, login into d2 pub chat right now, you will be greeted with a page or two from bots trying to sell you duped items.
I'm not defending them at this juncture, I'm just stating what might be their reasoning behind this in my opinion.
I actually agree on the fact that, without community building features like public chat channels, it gets very very hard to forge new friendships. You just get to play with people you know already, from outside the game, but you have night to none interaction with people from the game only.
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Demanding a public statement is useless, I think it's more useful to have a community interview or a interviewer who asks some of those question and responds on them if the answer is too vague.
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Anyone who's played D2 ever would know that the chat system and public channels there were atrocious. It was so incredibly bad that it's mind-boggling that people are actually whining when they decides to improve upon it for D3. Seriously some of you whinge just for the sake of it.
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On February 07 2012 19:58 Longshank wrote:
Anyone who's played D2 ever would know that the chat system and public channels there were atrocious. It was so incredibly bad that it's mind-boggling that people are actually whining when they decides to improve upon it for D3. Seriously some of you whinge just for the sake of it.
Try to strike the word "whining" from your vocabulary when confronted with people voicing legitimate concerns. You're not contributing but only coming across as an arrogant douche.
As for the chat: It's not the players' fault that Blizzard's only solution to chats being overrun by bots and spammer is to outright remove them. Open channels have their place, and they only devolved that much in D2 because Blizzard did nothing to fix the problem. And despite being as chaotic as they were, they still provided a means for finding trade partners, clan mates or friends, and thus created a vibrant feeling of community that's missing from both SC and D3.
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On February 07 2012 19:58 Longshank wrote:
Anyone who's played D2 ever would know that the chat system and public channels there were atrocious. It was so incredibly bad that it's mind-boggling that people are actually whining when they decides to improve upon it for D3. Seriously some of you whinge just for the sake of it.
First off, Trading and PKing were essentially what D2 became about. Trading channels, like Lod Ladder Trading USWest-1, etc were still used, even when bots flooded it.
Second off, Blizzard has revamped their account system. So if a person really wants to run a spam bot for a couple days before it's banned and has to shell out $60, so be it.
There is no improvement involved. It's stripping a system that worked just fine, into next to nothing.
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On February 07 2012 20:08 Orracle wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 19:58 Longshank wrote:
Anyone who's played D2 ever would know that the chat system and public channels there were atrocious. It was so incredibly bad that it's mind-boggling that people are actually whining when they decides to improve upon it for D3. Seriously some of you whinge just for the sake of it. First off, Trading and PKing were essentially what D2 became about. Trading channels, like Lod Ladder Trading USWest-1, etc were still used, even when bots flooded it. Second off, Blizzard has revamped their account system. So if a person really wants to run a spam bot for a couple days before it's banned and has to shell out $60, so be it. There is no improvement involved. It's stripping a system that worked just fine, into next to nothing.
The trading channels didn't work 'fine'. They existed solely because it was the only way to trade, an issue which is now fixed in D3.
I know for certain that I won't miss getting thrown into LoD SWE -1 when logging in, and that's not due to any bots. No tears will be shed. The community made channels were the only ones usable for people above the age of 13. Those public channels would be hell to moderate and I can't blame Blizzard for having better things to do than to babysit them.
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whine whine, gtfo!
User was temp banned for this post.
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EPT
