EPTBM still holds a strong role. I dont want you guys to make a stupid rash move as to lynching a potential townie in a highly favorable position
TL Mafia L - Page 117
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
BM still holds a strong role. I dont want you guys to make a stupid rash move as to lynching a potential townie in a highly favorable position | ||
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~OpZ~
United States3652 Posts
On January 18 2012 10:49 jaj22 wrote: I think he's been the best town player in the game, frankly. If Macpo and GGQ both flip green then I might start to worry, but fundamentally his play looks like good scumhunting to me, and there's not too much of that going on in this game. And his contradictions of himself are just good town play too? Claiming to of provided foundation to a day in which he really did next to nothing? | ||
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Munk-E
United States672 Posts
First up, Protactinium. He has the bonus of guessing ciryandor early. VERY early actually. After 1 post he bases his platform entirely on lynching him. All he said was that he thought wiggles had the best campaign, when he had a bias against one of the players based on a previous game, and only 1 other person was running, who was on the platform of “I will lynch my opponents”. Since he changed his vote, it could be that he was planning to all along, and if ciryan got lynched, he could use it as an excuse. On the other hand he could have just done it because he wanted an actual platform, and to get his election up early. He also could have been trying to pressure him into making a mistake, so I don’t think this necessarily means he’s scum. On to the posts! Long anti BC post + Show Spoiler + On January 14 2012 11:46 Protactinium wrote: Ah an interesting roleclaim. However, there is much more to this than people are getting at. The PM debate is an old one. Everyone has their opinion on whether it is town or mafia favored, and even through out-of-game debates, this is a highly controversial topic. If it can' be solved out of game, there's absolutely no way we are going to come up with a consensus in game. BC defends his claim by saying that getting everyone to contribute on this polarizing topic will help us get early reads on players. But if we can't agree on anything out of game, you won't really be able to say that someone saying "PMs good!" or "PMs bad!" will tell us anything about their alignment. Anyone can pretty much say whatever they like since they are under no obligation or pressure to have an opinion one way or the other on this issue. While it is debatable whether PMs are "good" or "bad" for town, it shouldn't be too controversial to say that PMs are elitist. They inherently favor good players who can make use of the extra channel of communication. When you are talking to someone in PMs, always keep in mind what you think the other person wants from you. Are they trying to convince you of a certain point of view? Are they trying to get you to claim? As long as you can keep in mind that the PM initiator may be attempting to manipulate you and don't give away information loosely, PMs really aren't that scary. What exactly has BC been discussing? Primarily, he has divided his attention between defending his claim, responding to attacks on the potnetial that he is red, and asking for "discussion" while pushing a particularly biased point of view. More clearly stated, he proposes a seemingly open-ended question, and answers it himself to make it appear like there was a town consensus behind it. If you look at the thread, the only real contribution to the discussion that DOESN'T come from BC is sandroba's suggestion that all the masons roleclaim. And notice BC's bias when discussing the topic. In almost all his posts, BC paints PMs in a bad light. He only seriously acknowledges that town masons have the potential to catch scum, but in the same post, quickly says that "its harder than you think": But lets look at a section of what BC has to say a bout PMs in his guide "TL Town Breakdown/Analysis": Quite a contradictory opinion from what he states in game. The essence of BC's out of game stance is that: "PMs are like playing with fire. Could be insanely awesome if used correctly, but could burn you if you don't. If you don't feel comfortable, don't use them". This is quite a stark contrast to his position in this game, where he seriously downplays the usefulness of town PMs, and does a bit of fear mongering in emphasizing how the mafia can screw you over with PMs. Is it possible that BC has changed his stance? I doubt it, but it certainly is possible. So lets dig deeper here. How is BC pushing his opinion? He does it subtly, and attempts to dissociate it from his personal point of view. In the beginning of his campaign to discuss masons, BC heavily uses the word "discuss" or "discussion", asks how "we as a whole" want to deal with masons, emphasizes that this is a discussion everyone should be weighing in on, and attempts to get the community involved in the discussion. He doesn't outright present his personal point of view, and frames the discussion so that it appears free and open-ended. But pretty much injects his own opinion into the discussion whenver possible. His initial point is that mafia masons are dangerous and that town needs to have a plan to deal with that. When asked for an example of PMs in action, BC drags in an example where he manipulated VE to do pro-mafia actions in just 1-2 PMs. (Reinforcing his stance on "PMs are scary") When asked behind why he thinks a mass claim will interfere with the mafia masons, he proposes in the hypothetical that if town agrees to not use PMs, then it shuts down mafia masons. A few posts later, he reemphasizes that "by making the town decide, vocally, now, we force everyone to have an opinion." While this is fine and dandy, really he is the one calling the shots here. When Cyber_Cheese suggests that we let masons use their discretion and suggests that smart town masons could cause the mafia masons to backfire, BC counters with "Mafia masons have the experience of an entire team to work manipulate someone", subtly pushing his opinion that PMs should be shunned. When asked about his opinion on a mason claim, he says he's fine with it, but takes the opportunity to inject more of his "ignore all PMs" idea into the conversation (notice that nobody else has been saying "lets ignore PMs"). BC is pushing the anti-PM agenda, in a way that is quite subtle. He constantly brings in reference to "the town needs to decide", or "this is a very important discussion that everyone needs to weigh in on", while he is really the one dominating the conversation. In other words, he is injecting his mafia bias into the discussion while attempting to pass it off as a town discussion or collective town decision. Here's something BC didn't tell you. As he has told me in the past (out of game): "keep in mind as red i rarely pm", and "my heavy pm use is town play". Now what about the "spotlight factor" brought up by Meapak? BC putting himself in the spotlight is nothing unusual, both for his mafia and town play. If you've read past games, think of BC's style as much the same as Ace's. As stated above, red BC doesn't use a PM heavy style. He uses a style that focuses on thread control, shutting down serious opposition through arguments and generally trashing the thread. BC claiming mason does not give him any +town points in my book. The general heuristic of "mafia want to avoid the spotlight" doesn't apply to BC, who is an experienced mafia player and has proven that he is well capable of taking the spotlight as red. So what is the scenario for BC being red and pushing his mason claim? BC is in fact red, and can use the mason power (chooses it for himself early in the day). As a town mason would, BC picks a mason target and starts talking to them. Once he gets the town to agree to ban masons, he is off the hook, and doesn't have to worry about PMs anymore. More specifically, he doesn't have to worry about town PMs. Like stated before, mafia BC plays a powerhouse thread control style. By banning PMs, BC doesn't lose out on much (he admits he isn't a heavy PM user), and nerfs Foolishness, sandroba, and my abilities to play a PM centric game (which we are known for). And that's what is the difference between this game and XLII (the game he refers to when he says he dominates with only 1-2 PMs). Foolishness and I are playing in this game, and are real threats. BC wants to shut down PMs before it starts, and he doesn't have to give up much information or lie at all in order to do it. Furthermore, he has not followed up on his campaign promise: "I will question, analyze and call out all those who play in what I view as bad town/mafia like. (I have already done this with foolishness, he knows better)." Ok, so maybe he called out Foolishness yesterday, but where is the scumhunting today? Its non-existent, because BC is too busy derailing the thread with mason discussions instead of scumhunting. What is even more interesting is the timing of his initial claim post. It comes an hourish after my second post against Ciryandor, which conveniently most people except for sandroba and sheth have ignored. 1. BloodyC0bbler derailed today's discussion onto the irrelevant, highly controversial, and unsolvable PM debate. 2. Because the community is split over the PM debate, discussing it tells us nothing about alignment even if people contribute to the discussion. In other words, BC is overexaggerating the importance of this discussion. 3. BloodyC0bbler is masking his intentions and his clear anti-PM agenda, which is inconsistent with his previous (out of game) stance on PMs). 4. BloodyC0bbler is trying to frame the discussion as an open discussion, when he is clearly injecting his personal bias. 5. BloodyC0bbler's actions are completely consistent with his mafia style, which is to spread chaos and control the thread atmoshere and discussion. 6. BloodyC0bbler's actions are not consistent with his campaign promise to analyze and call out people. He has done none of that today BloodyC0bbler is mafia. If you vote for me I will lynch him. I get that he is scum hunting here, but 90% of this post is just him complaining about BC’s opinions about PM’s changing, and he uses evidence based on other games and outside the mafia forums even. However I do agree with him on a couple of points. Specifically, the fact that BC claims to try to nullify all masons is kind of suspicious, as well as the fact that he was controlling the discussion by role claiming and then explaining why it’s a good idea. After a few more anti BC posts, he shifts his attention to macpo. On January 15 2012 09:35 Protactinium wrote: On January 13 2012 22:46 Macpo wrote: hi everyone! /confirm. I am a complete noob in this game, so please be forgiving to my small mistakes here and there! I'll try to share my views on this first day. Sorry if it's a bit clumsy, I am doing my best. 1. concerning the mayor election, I don't know if it's a usual thing, but I feel it's a bad idea to have too many people running for the election... in a sense, this mess is already a success for the mafia, isn't it? So, I would suggest that the persons who don't seem to be so concerned with it just stop running for the election, so that we have only a few candidates left. It doesn't mean there will be more or less scums among the left candidates, but at least, we can look more closely to who they are and clarify things. But maybe that's a bad idea! about who could be a good mayor, I am not so sure right now.(how difficult is it to ground any judgment at the moment!  ) I think the main thing is to keep in mind that whoever we elect, we are absolutely not sure of who he really is, even if we convincingly voted for him after some reasonable discussion.So let me give my two cents (not worth more!). I have to say I appreciated the candidacy of Mr Wriggles  , who has a clear argumentation and is pleasant to read. Not talking too much, making clear logical points. The only thing I am afraid of is that it may be a trick. Also, the Foolishness Bill murray candidacy sounds too big to be mafia-ish. There are claiming their "alliance" too loud, it would be way too risky for them if they were mafia, as everyone focuses on them. So, paradoxically, I would trust them more (or Bill Murray more precisely) as mayor. So I guess I will vote either Mr Wriggles, or Bill Murray; Mr Wriggles being more rational and precise in his analysis (but maybe it's a game) while Bill Murray is more a safety choice (with our very limited information, I feel it's rational to assume that he can't be mafia). But these are only very limited hypotheses and assumptions. How do you guys feel about that? I am also kind of sad that Echelon tee didn't apply, as I feel I share most of his analyses up to now . except for foolishness maybe. 2. Reading the whole 5 pages of debate, I noticed a few things. First is Cyber_cheese. What's the point of attacking Mr Wriggles from the beginning? that doesn't help for town cohesion at all (even more if it's a "joke"). it just looks like he wants to create a mess. Other people seem to have similar concerns with him, so maybe this is something worth discussing alltogether. So what do you think? Cyber, if maybe, could you say a word about this? To make it clear, it's merely an impression, I don't want to focus too much on you either. In a sense, Cyber is obviously not the only one. I feel that there are many useless agressive posts all around. So how do you guys feel about that? For instance, lthe ast one between Wherebugsgo and palmar, (as Toadesstern remarked): What's the point of being aggressive like that if you are town? Correct me if I am wrong, but I see no other reason for such a behaviour than one of them at least being scum. At the same time WBG's analysis sounds convincing for the moment. Others in similar situations would be nisani for instance. But maybe I am missing things here... Feel free to criticize my analysis, I am here to improve! and all my apologies to the misaccused persons , but from what I read in various guides, we have to go through this to find out real mafia... Macpo Notice how Macpo begins and ends his post with excuses, apologies, and emphasis on learning. His excuses and apologies function to say that he is useless and shouldn't be listened to. Not to mention, the actual content of his posts is in the middle. Why would he do this? It basically functions like this: he emphasizes his noobiness, which encourages you to ignore everything that he is going to say. And after he says it, he again emphasizes his noobiness, encouraging you to ignore everything he just said. He has no interest in having his voice count. Why would a townie want to do this? If you wanted to learn and participate in the game, you wouldn't want to be ignored. You wouldn't emphasize your uselessness, and would instead attempt to participate in the game. People may correct you, but if you haven't done anything wrong, why apologize? All the excuses and apologies do is make people ignore you. And if you look at Macpo's posts, its something he does quite well. In future posts, Macpo is ignored, and he pops up twice just to answer accusations to himself (while still apologizing). If you are really interested in learning, you wouldn't apologize when you've done nothing wrong, which is exactly what a mafia would want to do. Mafia inherently feel guilty, and see suspicion when there is none directed toward them. just a short question : how are you so sure that palmar is scum? palmar sounded a bit agressive, but saying he is easy to read? (I am not asking this with an agressive suspicious tone, just trying to figure things out) Notice how he ends his question with an excuse. Why is he so afraid of people thinking he is asking in an aggressive suspicious tone? Why is he so scared that people would think he actually holds an opinion? Macpo continues to cover up any potential suspicion on him before it even happens, which is something only mafia do. Even in his last post he states To those complaining about me being rational, it's getting obvious that they prefer random one line crap to argumentation. I'll answer back when they'll meet my standards. Nobody ever complains about Macpo being rational, but even so, why would you even deem this worthy of a response? All this statement does is "you dont meet my standards, i'll respond when you do". A completely different attitude from his first posts "I'm newb, i may be a bit clumsy, tell me if im doing anything wrong". He goes from a submissive "i am inferior to you" to suddenly thinking he has the license to ignore people because they don't meet his standards. Quite bold for someone who claims to be a newbie, don't you think? Macpo overemphasizes his newbieness, offers no real opinions, jarringly disconnected from the events that are happening in thread. Lets save BC for later and just lynch this guy. Here he changes his vote for lynch again. I feel this isn’t too concrete of a case either, because it is his first game, however, he does make good points. He does defend himself a LOT, which does seem like what a noobie mafia would do. I am pretty sure myself that macpo is mafia, but at this point voting for him means nothing as he’s probably going to die anyways. Nice long scum hunting and analysis! + Show Spoiler + On January 17 2012 06:19 Protactinium wrote: In the interest of this not getting lost (posted on the wrong account, original post located here) ![[image loading]](http://s1.hubimg.com/u/5308476_f520.jpg) There's some bad news and some good news. The bad news is that day 1 had a horribly mafia-favored atmosphere. The good news is that the mafia didn't take advantage of it. That is to say, the mafia became complacent because they didn't need to do much to encourage chaos, and thus became lazy and slacked off. The theme of this post is apathy. The mafia are apathetic because the atmosphere is so chaotic that they don't need to do much to stay under the radar. After all, why work hard when you can be lazy? L On January 15 2012 00:41 L wrote: So I decided to take a good read of the thread from the start in one burst because hey, I'm a day late. A few things stood out as odd: 1) There are a LOT of mayoral candidates. Many of them seem to have prepared their candidacy prior to the game. Candidacies prepared prior to the game don't give us any information (insofar as submitting candidature goes) because they are done in the absence of role or alignment information. The surplus of candidates as well as the pre-prepared quality of many indicates that candidacy itself is devalued in this game. 2) Of those 'immediate' candidacies, Foolishness's is the most peculiar on its face, I honestly don't understand why someone would prepare a post to push for someone in the absence of role information, but my best guess is that he wanted to run himself, then got masoned or masoned someone else. 3) Mattchew releases a pm between him and Foolishness that states straight up that Bill Murray will be easy to control. No one comments on this. 4) On page 39 its stated that roles who get elected cannot be roleblocked; All of the current candidates for mayor are crumbing or have claimed roles that don't benefit from this. This issue is brought up a grand total of ONCE in the 12 pages since then and not discussed any further. 5) There are a LOT of chaff posts in this thread. A lot of larger posts are similarly filled with repetitive content. 6) The most interesting of the semi-chaff posts are the cloaked kingmakers. Posts like "Oh, the race is already over, X or Z is going to win". Why are they interesting? Because the leading candidate currently has 10% of the popular vote and mafia's potential to swing votes is grossly disproportionate to the amount of votes cast thusfar. 7) No one seems particularly 'pressed' with respect to the vote totals, which indicates that everyone's roughly happy with the way things are or at least not hurried enough to make a play yet. Given how strong the election roles are, this means mafia has likely captured at least one of the frontrunner spots at this point in time. This also means that mafia is doubly happy to throw out cloaked kingmakers as they clutter the thread, remove an incentive for people to participate AND lead them to an election result that they're comfortable with. 8) A grand total of one post stands out in my memory regarding the timing of votes and stated that people should be throwing down their votes asap to prevent the election from getting hijacked by a mafia swing. No one picked up on it and there was a burst of posting to bury it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So, what does this tell me? Tells me two things: 1) People need to vote. Now. 2) I'm voting for me. L for Mayor. 3) The best defensive votes statistically are on players who currently aren't winning but posted pre-canned candidacies. The best offensive votes are on players who have crumbed a role that isn't mason. P.S. Rainbow text is fucking hard. In his campaign post, he gives a laundry list of 8 things that he finds "odd", but these points cast doubt and provide more questions than answers. L makes up the term "cloaked kingmakers", although there really is no reason to believe that the people saying that "X is going to win" are mafia. L is just making up a catchy phrase to avoid having to explain anything. In point 7 L suggests that mafia have one of the front running spots, but doesn't put any effort into figuring out who it is, and just casts doubt to make the voters fearful. How does he conclude his laundry list of 8 points? He tells people to vote for him. Now. Besides providing no content except doubt, the tone of this post is quite interesting. L's first post is large and basically says and screams "I am full of energy, care about the town, and am providing valuable insight", when in fact, he quickly falls off the radar, shows his apathy, and gives no such insight. The rest of his posts are incoherent and don't provide direction. His posts don't command attention, and even when he prods people, he doesn't do it in a way that draws attention. Even though he appears perky and full of energy, as a whole they are apathetic. L says that he would choose to lynch Mattchew based on a flimsy sentence (and by calling him a "cloaked kingmaker"). He also tosses his vote on VisceraEyes without much thought. L is apathetic and has done nothing for the town while attempting to hide that he is doing so. Jackal I have no idea why Foolishness thinks he's town. Jackal is not playing his usual gung ho strongly opinionated town style. His play is quite similar to his play in TL Mafia XLVIII as mafia. Jackal isn't actively involved in the game. He never pushes a strong opinion (highly uncharacteristic), and just sits back while making irrelevant comments on random posts. Clearly, he is reading the thread. Clearly, he doesn't care to contribute. And why should he? The thread is in chaos, so its easy to just get lazy as mafia. kingjames In this game, kingjames proposes that bodyguards be made public, posts a consideration that BC may be the mafia jack, and then disappears. On January 14 2012 09:14 kingjames01 wrote: Also, consider for the moment, that BC may be mafia Jack. If he uses his Mason power on Day 1 to establish his credibility and then is subsequently elected to office, we will not be able to find the mafia Jack. It is a risk, but I know that BC will take that risk. He is very much a medium-risk, high-reward player. EVERYONE! WHAT HAPPENS IF BLOODYC0BBLER IS MAFIA JACK? I consider this scenario involving BC to be within his bag of tricks, and I will not vote to elect him into office. A fear mongering post that asks what happens if BC is red, with no opinion or followup. Another case of apathy. Contrast this with TL Mafia XXXVIII where instantly gives strong opinions on some of the proposed policy plans (random lynching, zodiac lists), immediately jumps into trying to find mafia, posts some detailed analyses, and does a lot of poking and prodding. In this game, kingjames does not attempt to find mafia. He instead discusses outing bodyguards, and casts doubt on BC without providing any opinion. The key thing to note is that in contrast to his town play where he is outgoing and analytical, his posts in this game are very subdued, seem artificial and feel overly planned. Macpo Here we revisit Macpo. I won't restate my previous analysis. However, I think people are not seeing the subtle differences in how Macpo is different from some of the other newbies or lurkers. The key is overemphasis on inexperience to the point that he is begging to be ignored. This is a textbook case of mafia. But for all of you doubters, here is a new piece of information. Look at Macpo's 4th post here: On January 14 2012 20:02 Macpo wrote: It's getting clear that Bill Murray is the way to go. Mr Wiggles, a good town, but he just doesn't want to be on the stage too much, so I guess the mayor role doesn't suit him very well. BC: way too unclear and risky for me; he is trying too much stuff, going for a thousand contradictory stuff, taking back what he said and so on. Bill has shown a lot of presence, and has made reasonable analyses, plus he is not afraid. That's enough for me up to now, I think we won't have better than that. To those complaining about me being rational, it's getting obvious that they prefer random one line crap to argumentation. I'll answer back when they'll meet my standards. Also, I changed my mind on Cybercheese, as he opened my eyes on the the BC case. To bill: some people here have NOT posted yet at all!! I feel fine about lynching sandroba, as he acts quite scummy, but I suggest that if you are elected, you lynch someone who has not talked yet. statistics we'll be that it is mafia. and compare to his first post, where he overly emphasizes his newbiness. See the difference? Macpo doesn't apologize at all in this post, and spews a bunch of opinions. Previously, he stated that "I just feel that being confident in my claims on day 1 is kind of stupid, as there is almost no rational basis for being so." Huge contrast. Its as if its a different person posting. Its pretty obvious that Macpo is getting coaching from his mafia friends. Then his next post: On January 15 2012 09:13 Macpo wrote: I haven't been able to post my scum tells last post, here they are. Basically, I think we kind of neglect all these players, who are basically hiding. I am not saying this 100% scums; some of them are probably really not here. but I also think it's more than 20% scum in there, we should keep this in mind: - Refallen 2 empty posts. - Munk-E 1 empty post. - Brownbear 4 posts, 4lines. - d3_crescentia 3 posts 3 lines. - igabod 4 posts 4 lines. - rtgICEMAN 4 posts, and no clear position. - Maxella 2 posts. Please guys, really get into it and help town; as now you are just very embarrassingly hiding. Until you convincingly do, you are all my favorite scums tells. Also, while going through the filters, I saw the remarkable case of Jayjay, one poster, 10%of the whole thread. and to be honest, only crap in it; far from any rational standard . This annoys me, so I put him on my scummy list. We really need to have more rational stuff to clarify things. like REALLY. Besides the fact that Macpo doesn't follow his own advice and really doesn't "get into it and help town", notice the pleading tone. I bet its a different coach this time! LOLOLOLOL GGQ On January 15 2012 12:02 GGQ wrote: havent caught up, I'm at page 57, but I skipped ahead. don't vote in Protractinium. Seriously, don't. Macpo is pretty clearly a newb town imo For not having caught up yet, GGQ has a shockingly strong opinion that Macpo is newb town. What's even more interesting is that this read is his basis for urging people not to vote me in. Why does GGQ have such a strong attachment to Macpo? He never once discusses lynch targets or inquires about who the other mayoral candidates is going to lynch. But for some reason he really wants to save Macpo. Without even considering whether or not I am otherwise a good candidate for mayor. He doesn't attempt to persuade me not to lynch Macpo, he just flat out says that I shouldn't be voted in. In short, GGQ is apathetic both about who becomes mayor and who gets lynched. But for some reason he really cares that Macpo doesn't get lynched. GGQ is also lurking hard while providing no content. Contrast to Responsibility Mafia where he is active, expresses interest in finding a good target for the lynch and gives a few detalied analyses on GMarshal and Mr. Wiggles. Ciryandor In sharp contrast to his previous posts (and future posts, I might add), where he has a defiant tone, "LOL that's a good reason to get you voted in.", and "LOL says the guy whose first post is to criticize bad posts.", Ciryandor switches to a submissive tone in an attempt to gain sympathy as one who has been wrongly accused. His argument is that there are other players who fit the same criterion, and posts a list of half-hearted "reads" to attempt to appease. But it is all a ploy. Note how he never mentions who he wants lynched. He is way too apathetic and seems more concerned about saving himself (less antagonistic tone) rather than actually believing in any his reads, or any of anyone elses, for that matter. But here's the kicker: Right now I'm torn between Proact and Sandroba in voting, because at least they're concrete in promising ONE NAME to lynch instead of being wishy-washy in getting a list of targets up, and that I think they have plans for town after Day 1 that don't need to be publicized yet. He is torn between voting for me/sandroba, but then in his next post, states: Same thing here; I only read the blue post saying 9 minutes to deadline with 4 minutes to go, so I just chucked in a vote at Bill seeing that Proact is in the lead (as of the last votecount update I saw), and that I don't like BC to get sheriff because he and Proact are at odds with each other. Two things wrong here. First, he doesn't vote for me/sandroba. He also non-chalantly "chucks" a vote at Bill. Not a verb you'd associate with someone who "is torn between" two other candidates, huh? While he may say that he didn't want BC and me to both be in office, his vote is way too casual. Second, notice the sudden difference in tone between this post and the previous one. No more puppy eyes "I'm being unfairly fingered out despite there being many other people acting like me" talk. Ciryandor changes from calm to careless and aloof, and basically just throws his vote down without much forethought. Of course, when I end up losing the election, Ciryandor says nothing about the result. Only that On January 15 2012 12:37 Ciryandor wrote: Yes, Miller is townie that checks as scum. If thats not apathy, I don't know what is. evantrees I agree with Foolishness that evantrees is mafia. His first post is so incoherent it begs to be skipped, but this post in particular is bad: On January 15 2012 09:44 evantrees wrote: to quote VE out of context at the modkill + attempted day vig bit late but anyways. ~OpZ~ not sandroba otherwise correct, bc masoned sandroba OpZ masoned bc jitsu masoned VE mattchew masoned foolishness according to whats been said at least. Doubt I typed anything useful going through this mess but I will check. Posting a useless list without any opinion? Check. Even worse is that he doesn't even verify that the information is correct, and states that what he wrote is probably useless. This is apathy at its finest. Furthermore, evantrees is lurking hard core. We know he's reading the thread, as he posts a null comment on Palmar's flip before randomly requesting that repalcements are relfected in the OP. The argument that evantrees is just a bored townie doesn't hold here. Bored townies don't ask the mods to indicate replacements in the OP. evantrees is completely apathetic and pretends to contribute to the town when he in fact is not. Well those are my thoughts in the event that I am shot in the face. Start by lynching Macpo (he's too obviously mafia, and his flipping red will strengthen the cases on GGQ and Ciryandor). 6 reds should be enough given that its only day 1 and we can't kill them all right away anyway. Just make sure these don't get spammed away by some of the aggressive posters. Also please don't do something dumb like lynching someone who is really putting in the effort to figure stuff out. This post, as well as almost all other of his previous posts anf future posts focus on scum hunting. Long story short, protac is a role model of a townie, or a really good actor. Not much more analysis is required here. Conclusion: Protactinium = town Next up BloodyC0bbler! On January 13 2012 16:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote: /confirming my role. Also caught up on the thread huzzzzzahhhhh. Now lets start my post off with some quality. Foolishness is the lack of wisdom. In this sense it differs from stupidity, which is the lack of intelligence. An act of foolishness is sometimes referred to as a folly Now, everyone is prob going "BC why are you quoting this?" The reason is simple. There is a current campaign by foolishness to get BM elected. Now, BM is an unknown variable in the current metric of TL mafia. I say this because with as much time as he has had off from TL games he may have changed his play style via other forums. He could have "restrictions" of sorts provided by the host to make sure he doesn't ruin the game as his reputation portrays. However the most interesting reason is simply that he has not posted yet. Foolishness is running a campaign for bm proclaiming him town, yet, the man has yet to post as of the time i am writing this. I dont know about you, but I think my definition holds true at this point. Now for a serious campaign. I am running for mayor. Why am I running for mayor? Because I think I am one of the most experienced players in the roster who has the ability to lead. I am a generally a vocal player, and to those who have played with me before someone who is usually a fairly straightforward read. These players would include foolishness, incog (whos sharing an account). The ones who should based on asking me for advice/playing on teams with me as red/being fubar'd by my red play are sandroba, wiggles, visceraeyes, opz and possibly a few more. I am accountable for my actions. I say this because if I say i will do something I will do it. A scum me rarely pokes his head out without reason, and as such I am willingly to put spotlight on myself at all times to keep the town assured of my alignment. I will question, analyze and call out all those who play in what I view as bad town/mafia like. (I have already done this with foolishness, he knows better). I will actively harass lurkers to play in this game as opposed to lurking, failure to begin playing will result in advocacy of vig shots. In short I will lead. As opposed to letting the town run around under the reigns of a player not used to being put in the position to lead I am willing to do so. This also helps keep me alive as I will be a high priority mafia night target. They know I am coming for them, and I will not stop until they die. Vote for BC, vote for accountable and vocal leadership. I agree with him on this point. Why would someone campaign for someone without them having posted yet? Either it was a dumb move, they’re both mafia, or he figured that he was going to run anyways, and since he really liked ghostbusters, he was going to vote for him regardless of what he said. As for his promises, he doesn’t keep them. I mean look at me, This is my 3rd post and he hasn’t harassed me at all! Also, vig shots on lurkers is a stupid idea. They should be used on people you suspect as mafia instead of people who have been busy recently. I know it’s just pressure, but it’s just such a dumb idea. On January 14 2012 03:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote: The Day 1 Important Discussion Post #1 Read this post fully before posting. It is something that everyone must read, and that everyone must comment on That is right friends, this post as I am writing it is near one of the most important posts of this game day. You are going to ask? Why BC? Simple. I am about to do something that will cause people to yell and scream at me. I am roleclaiming. I am mason Note what I have done? I have now put myself from the statistical chance of flipping a town aligned role of 80%ish and lowered it to a solid 50%. I am now either 50% red or 50% blue. I am doing this for a few reasons. 1) in this game there could exist masons on both sides of the equation. As such dealing with them early is key as they work behind the scenes of the game. 2) it is a confirmable role, stress this point, ROLE. I can confirm my role at the beginning of a day cycle as opposed to at the end of a day cycle 3) I am being transparent. By giving this information now, reading me becomes far easier. There will never be the "is he blue trying to breadcrumb etc..?" 4) goes along with 3, however it outs one of the masons now. It stops the discussion later of people discussing all the people who are masons and who is believable late game whereas we can cover at least one of them now This also sets the town up in a very advantageous way. Why you ask? I am elected and now town knowingly knows I am active in pms. I am not elected and not auto lynched by mayor and same information is known. It also forces the mafia to deal with me as they have no idea what I am doing in pm land. Do they try and kill who I am talking to? Do they use their own masons and attempt to find out what I have said, etc.... This I feel is the most advantageous day 1 use of my ability. I have already used my mason use for the day and will say who I used it on after this post in the nearish future. I am leaving who it is out as the purpose is to generate discussion on my claim, not on who I chose to mason to. As to detail of why I did this aside from the general points I made? Everyone will have an opinion on this claim. Some good, some bad. People will have to have an opinion on this subject however. EVERYONE will have an opinion. Do not just post "wtf bc you dumb fuck why would you do this". This is a debate about me specifically being a mason and if I should be elected, not elected and lynched, or not elected and left for the mafia to deal with me. All vets, all new players, all semi experienced players will have an opinion and it is needed. Anyone who fails to properly contribute on this matter. I have thought this claim out and realize that generally claiming day 1 is bad, however I feel at least with this mechanic and how it could be abused it should be discussed (especially with a high profile player such as myself possessing it) now and not later. On the most important note that this post will do however is generate serious discussion. How do you all wish to proceed with a mason claim? Specifically my mason claim? Here he is claiming mason, and derailing the thread for the next long time, and draws a bunch of attention to himself. This was when his campaign was doing well also, I see no reason for him to do this. Also, how does he know how many mafia masons there are to make it 50-50? Also, how would this generate serious discussion? Masons on either side can prove their role to someone. He’s trying to avoid scum hunting to get his ridiculous plan to work. It seems very scummy to me, pushing his own agenda. His next million or so posts are him yelling at every person in the game for telling him he’s dumb. Most suspiciously, he got 4 votes within the final seconds of voting. This could’ve been a coincidence, but it seems unlikely. It might have been set up by mafia, but that just seems way too obvious. I’m guessing it was 4 separate supporters waiting last minute to change their vote, so other people voting for smaller candidates wouldn’t have the time to change their vote to prevent him from being elected. Maybe some of them were masoned too. Besides, I don’t have very strong scum reads at all from those last minute voters. Now for Bill Murray (SPOILER: He’s the scum) He doesn’t really have anything wrong with his posts, until night 1, when he incarcerates lanaia for no reason. Especially when he suspects he’s mafia. On January 15 2012 21:52 Bill Murray wrote: Town supersoft Cyber_Cheese Toadesstern Adam4167 Foolishness Nisani201 EchelonTee Jayjay54 L Liquid`Sheth kitaman27 BloodyC0bbler Kurumi p4NDemik Meapak_Ziphh wherebugsgo Dont want to lynch: VisceraEyes Jitsu Mr. Wiggles ~OpZ~ Ciryandor Jackal58 hiro protagonist GiygaS BrownBear Where have you been? Wouldn't mind lynching these lurkers: igabod zeks evantrees Chaosquo Cwave Slardar rgTheSchworz Scamp glurio rtgICEMAN Maxella blahz0r GGQ Lynch, Lynch, Lynch!: Protactinium (Mystlord/Incognito) sandroba risk.nuke Munk-E scumatlarge Lanaia Macpo Mafia There really is no reason to do this. It wouldn’t reduce KP, and stopping a role block would be dumb. It would be much better to either wait to use it, or protect people. ALSO: [B]On January 17 2012 11:42 Bill Murray wrote: 2 people who are masons are mafia together the sandroba lynch gives us a lot of information He accidentally tells that there are 2 mafia masons. And then tries to cover it up a lot. anywaysHe doesn’t do anything particularly townishasdfasdfsdfasdfftf5rtfgv5r4`1 | ||
Liquid`Sheth
United States2095 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On January 18 2012 04:45 Jackal58 wrote: This is enough for me to hang your ass. You won't pass judgement but you'll help hang his ass. Scummy Visc. Very scummy. If you don't like the Macpo lynch this guy is an excellent alternative. First post back after he was analyzed. He doesn't comment on anything that has happened since page 92, except to FoS visc? I believe Jackal used this exact same tactic as scum in ptp2. Day 1 he was accused and he vanished and let the analysis vanish before reappearing. Vanished again when he was being pushed again and the analysis was buried again. (this is to my best recollection, I will be revisiting that game shortly). It is obvious no one is going to vote for him today, as such I believe we should put him on tommorrows list unless a vig takes care of him tonight. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
I'm seriously worried about some of the votes Bill Murray is picking up. Maybe he's terrible town after all. Or maybe he's scum and they're trying to make me think that he's terrible town. Gah. | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On January 18 2012 10:57 Kenpachi wrote: Alright, lets not vote double lynch. BM still holds a strong role. I dont want you guys to make a stupid rash move as to lynching a potential townie in a highly favorable position In other words, you're happy to see that the sheriff is scum eh? | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
On January 18 2012 11:00 Kenpachi wrote: wait what.. BM is a failure i lied we are going to go through with the double lynch | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
The case against BM is hard to understand for me right now. I propose that we lynch this macpo guy (even if town, he's no real loss/he won't be able to reestablish his innocence even if he's town) and Caosque. I just read through BMs filter and I don't see it. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Incog is generally much harder to read, no? | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
On January 18 2012 05:14 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Adam4167 (Filter link) Nobody picked up on this. Not sure why it never garnered more discussion. It's fear mongering, to try and not protect the best scum-hunters what? There were, and still are, a ton of options for dealing with this, which could leave town with trading 2 for 2 if both are replaced. There seems to be a huge lack of content. This is his best post to date: + Show Spoiler + On January 15 2012 20:01 Adam4167 wrote: Filter problems: -glurio’s filter is linked to D3’s. -Jackals filter is linked to glurio’s. Palmars lynch/WBG, is WBG scummy? - Im disappointed that Palmar was yet again made a focus of discussion on day 1, but he was right, there was almost 10 people doing far less then him (incoming modkills), yet he gets flack for it, based solely on his name (meta). - As far as the WBG situation, I can see it going either way, right now he’s null to me but I cant fault him for wanting more out of Palmar, I did too. Palmars lynch/BC choosing him, did you agree with this? -Nope, should have followed his read and hung protactinium. Not that I think Prot is scum, I don’t, otherwise I wouldn’t have voted for him, but if BC is going to be swayed by the loudest voice in the mob, he may as well have just stepped down and let someone else win. I wanted someone who was confident in his reads, not making compromises with his suspicious mason buddy. BM/BC being the elected pair? -Well, I didn’t vote for either of them. Right now I like Bill Murray a whole lot more then I like BC. He’s posting, maintaining a good thread presence, contributing in the discussion. BC’s rash Palmar lynch, which seemingly came out of the blue, has me concerned that it went to the wrong place. Who would you look into lynching next and why? -Right now, I think VE is doing a good job of causing chaos and being a general distraction. I wouldn’t be adverse to him dying, regardless of his retardo jack claim. Palmar thought Ciryandor was scum, and now that we know it was coming from town Palmar, I give it weight. -I want to see what information our modkills bring, plus the nightkills. I am hoping maybe one or two scum get flipped in the modkills or vig fire, then I can start looking for associations. -I’m surprised Erandorr didn’t come under fire for his meta of refusing to play scum, and posting nil this game. I’ll be watching his replacement like a hawk. Double Lynch tomorrow? -Im all for a double lynch tomorrow. Less people shitting up this thread is good because I’m spending 3 hours catching up on this thread after I wake up, then a further couple of hours reading filters (/whine). On a more useful note, increasing our KP is a good idea. I find Jacks and Vigs far less reliable and am much more in favour of democratic scum killing then “I DON’T LIKE WHAT YOURE SAYING, ILL BLOW YOUR FACE OFF CHEESE” kind of ‘scum’ killing. On another note: -I asked GGQ a question, never got an answer. I can only assume he’s read it. His last post said “I’ve only read up to page 57”, and my question was on page 50. Id have really preferred the answer before Palmar was lynched. He’s ended up on Foolishes watch list, and his last post is defending someone on Foolishes scum list, so Ill be keeping an eye on this one for sure. But it only spawned because I specifically asked him about it. Why do you want my opinion on you? If we were both town, How would that help us in any way shape or form? It seems like an 'Am I hiding well?' type question. Shutting down discussion on candidates other than Macpo? My vote is definitely not necessary if we want Macpo lynched. Nice case there cheese /rolleyes That first post you’ve quoted is not fearmongering. That was a strategy discussion and I brought it up to potentially thwart scum knocking off both of our elected officials and some of our best scum hunters. Yes, my filter is lacking, I acknowledge that right here link my friend died in a car accident on the weekend. The only reason I haven’t asked for a replacement is because I know there aren’t any, with close to 10 people getting modkilled. You said it yourself “If we were both town”. I don’t know if you’re town, I’m really doubting it now though. I do find your case on me interesting however, not once do you call me scum. You try to cast doubt on me and construe things in a way that make them look worse then they are. Are you trying to see if your case takes off before you finally come out and say it? Lets see how you answered that post where I asked you about myself and ech: -VE could be town or scum. Thanks for that one Sherlock. -Null on Kenpachi -Null to weak town on kingjames -Null on Echelon -Null on me Are you even trying? On January 18 2012 05:25 wherebugsgo wrote: Oh kill that Adam guy too, he's been saying weird shit for days. Bugs, you want me dead because you think I’m saying ‘weird shit’? I’m here to kill scum, not people who say stuff I don’t agree with. Are you? | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
On January 18 2012 11:20 supersoft wrote: I am voting Chaosquo. I like cybercheeses case against him the most. The case against BM is hard to understand for me right now. I propose that we lynch this macpo guy (even if town, he's no real loss/he won't be able to reestablish his innocence even if he's town) and Caosque. I just read through BMs filter and I don't see it. Furthermore he's the sherrif and we should direkt his power a few nights long. We chose one target for him an he executes that order. In the worst case, we direct him to jail a - if he's scum - fellow scummember and both fakeclaim that the jailing had happened. If he jails someone else he dies. | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
On January 18 2012 10:57 ~OpZ~ wrote: And his contradictions of himself are just good town play too? Claiming to of provided foundation to a day in which he really did next to nothing? I can't say I noticed any significant contradictions. If you mean switching targets during day 1, I'd much rather see three cases than one repeated. He posted three substantial cases in day 1, one of which flipped red. I'm struggling to think who did a better job of giving town direction. Post count isn't everything. Too tired to stay up for the lynch, so voting Macpo to avoid nasty surprises. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On January 18 2012 11:23 Adam4167 wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 18 2012 05:14 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Adam4167 (Filter link) Nobody picked up on this. Not sure why it never garnered more discussion. It's fear mongering, to try and not protect the best scum-hunters what? There were, and still are, a ton of options for dealing with this, which could leave town with trading 2 for 2 if both are replaced. There seems to be a huge lack of content. This is his best post to date: + Show Spoiler + On January 15 2012 20:01 Adam4167 wrote: Filter problems: -glurio’s filter is linked to D3’s. -Jackals filter is linked to glurio’s. Palmars lynch/WBG, is WBG scummy? - Im disappointed that Palmar was yet again made a focus of discussion on day 1, but he was right, there was almost 10 people doing far less then him (incoming modkills), yet he gets flack for it, based solely on his name (meta). - As far as the WBG situation, I can see it going either way, right now he’s null to me but I cant fault him for wanting more out of Palmar, I did too. Palmars lynch/BC choosing him, did you agree with this? -Nope, should have followed his read and hung protactinium. Not that I think Prot is scum, I don’t, otherwise I wouldn’t have voted for him, but if BC is going to be swayed by the loudest voice in the mob, he may as well have just stepped down and let someone else win. I wanted someone who was confident in his reads, not making compromises with his suspicious mason buddy. BM/BC being the elected pair? -Well, I didn’t vote for either of them. Right now I like Bill Murray a whole lot more then I like BC. He’s posting, maintaining a good thread presence, contributing in the discussion. BC’s rash Palmar lynch, which seemingly came out of the blue, has me concerned that it went to the wrong place. Who would you look into lynching next and why? -Right now, I think VE is doing a good job of causing chaos and being a general distraction. I wouldn’t be adverse to him dying, regardless of his retardo jack claim. Palmar thought Ciryandor was scum, and now that we know it was coming from town Palmar, I give it weight. -I want to see what information our modkills bring, plus the nightkills. I am hoping maybe one or two scum get flipped in the modkills or vig fire, then I can start looking for associations. -I’m surprised Erandorr didn’t come under fire for his meta of refusing to play scum, and posting nil this game. I’ll be watching his replacement like a hawk. Double Lynch tomorrow? -Im all for a double lynch tomorrow. Less people shitting up this thread is good because I’m spending 3 hours catching up on this thread after I wake up, then a further couple of hours reading filters (/whine). On a more useful note, increasing our KP is a good idea. I find Jacks and Vigs far less reliable and am much more in favour of democratic scum killing then “I DON’T LIKE WHAT YOURE SAYING, ILL BLOW YOUR FACE OFF CHEESE” kind of ‘scum’ killing. On another note: -I asked GGQ a question, never got an answer. I can only assume he’s read it. His last post said “I’ve only read up to page 57”, and my question was on page 50. Id have really preferred the answer before Palmar was lynched. He’s ended up on Foolishes watch list, and his last post is defending someone on Foolishes scum list, so Ill be keeping an eye on this one for sure. But it only spawned because I specifically asked him about it. Why do you want my opinion on you? If we were both town, How would that help us in any way shape or form? It seems like an 'Am I hiding well?' type question. Shutting down discussion on candidates other than Macpo? My vote is definitely not necessary if we want Macpo lynched. Nice case there cheese /rolleyes That first post you’ve quoted is not fearmongering. That was a strategy discussion and I brought it up to potentially thwart scum knocking off both of our elected officials and some of our best scum hunters. Yes, my filter is lacking, I acknowledge that right here link my friend died in a car accident on the weekend. The only reason I haven’t asked for a replacement is because I know there aren’t any, with close to 10 people getting modkilled. You said it yourself “If we were both town”. I don’t know if you’re town, I’m really doubting it now though. I do find your case on me interesting however, not once do you call me scum. You try to cast doubt on me and construe things in a way that make them look worse then they are. Are you trying to see if your case takes off before you finally come out and say it? Lets see how you answered that post where I asked you about myself and ech: -VE could be town or scum. Thanks for that one Sherlock. -Null on Kenpachi -Null to weak town on kingjames -Null on Echelon -Null on me Are you even trying? Bugs, you want me dead because you think I’m saying ‘weird shit’? I’m here to kill scum, not people who say stuff I don’t agree with. Are you? They are things I wanted to hear you reply to. If it was a case, rest assured I would have put more effort in. It doesn't address you directly because at that point discussion was dead. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On January 18 2012 10:43 supersoft wrote: re :-/ uh. Is L avaliable? Yo, brotato. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
![[image loading]](http://media.wowstead.com/attachments/191/353/634305451315390030.jpg) TL Mafia L: Night 2 Start No flavor text tonight. Too tired to be creative <3 Macpo the Mafia Goon has been lynched. A Double Lynch is available for tomorrow. Get your night actions in to both flamewheel and myself. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
Still very disapppointed by the people that let discussion die. | ||
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