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United States5162 Posts
On January 12 2012 00:00 Detwiler wrote:
Everybody's like read the case. Well I did. Sounds like oh I dont know every freakin school fight ever. Its the 12 wounds that does it in for me. If they fought kid got scared stabbed him and he happened to bleed to death before paramedics got there. Okay self defense he gets a pass. 12 times though? Naw dude thats murder sorry. Its like if some body breaks into my house and I shoot them. They go down and bleed to death before police get there. Self defense. But if he breaks in I shoot him and as he lays there bleeding i walk over and put another in his head thats murder.
12 stabs also includes superficial cuts and other penetrations that most people wouldn't consider a 'stab'. Two of the blows were actually life threatening, and cutting someone 12 times is really easy to do in a fight where limbs are flying everywhere.
And as Barrin pointed out, getting stabbed once, even if it's life threatening, isn't always enough to make someone realize what's happened. It's very possible that he continued fighting even after being mortally wounded.
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but the whole "self defense means you have to stab the other guy 12 times in the chest" argument is rubbish. it translates to basically saying that all bullies should face the death penalty.... with the defense "well bullies shouldn't bully in the first place!".
Please, stop this ridiculous nonsensical trash, he was not stabbed for bullying, saying he was is taking the situation completely out of context and makes you look like an idiot. He was stabbed in an assault he initiated, and not backing down after the defender drew a weapon. He put the defender into an impossible position that he could not have avoided, and started beating on him, as self defense he drew a weapon but this did not deter him, he kept on beating on him so the defender used the weapon to make him stop.
Instead of kids, place yourself in this situation, you are trying your best to avoid 4 guys much, much bigger than you, they follow you off your busstop into a deserted street and beat you in the back of your head and surround you to hold you in place, should you be able to use a weapon? Fuck yes, and saying anything otherwise is ridiculous. You did not initate the situation, you were put in a situation where your life and health could possibly be on the line, you should be able to defend yourself.
Everybody's like read the case. Well I did. Sounds like oh I dont know every freakin school fight ever. Its the 12 wounds that does it in for me. If they fought kid got scared stabbed him and he happened to bleed to death before paramedics got there. Okay self defense he gets a pass. 12 times though? Naw dude thats murder sorry. Its like if some body breaks into my house and I shoot them. They go down and bleed to death before police get there. Self defense. But if he breaks in I shoot him and as he lays there bleeding i walk over and put another in his head thats murder.
You read the case, yes, but you don't understand it, he had 12 cuts, with only two lethal, that means 10 cuts were mostly scratches and rather innocent, he did not take the bully and stab him repeatedly, he was slicing his knife in self defense to try and get him to stop, which he only did after it was too late. If you know anything about fighting and adrenaline, you will know that a couple of painful cuts will not easily deter an aggressor, it was very likely all of the cuts were necessary until he stopped beating on him.
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On January 12 2012 00:03 hinnolinn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:00 Detwiler wrote:
Everybody's like read the case. Well I did. Sounds like oh I dont know every freakin school fight ever. Its the 12 wounds that does it in for me. If they fought kid got scared stabbed him and he happened to bleed to death before paramedics got there. Okay self defense he gets a pass. 12 times though? Naw dude thats murder sorry. Its like if some body breaks into my house and I shoot them. They go down and bleed to death before police get there. Self defense. But if he breaks in I shoot him and as he lays there bleeding i walk over and put another in his head thats murder. Seriously, every school fight you've ever heard about consists of a group of older, bigger kids tailing another kid, punching him in the back of the head, surrounding him, and forcing him to fight? The fact you're not doing more to stop that, but are instead insistant on the persecution of the kid that defends himself is astounding.
Defending yourself doesn't include stabbing a unarmed person 12 times man. Florida just has strange laws most places have laws concerning escalation of force. Such as if some one starts a fist fight with you and you pull out a knife and kill him blame transfers to you even if you didn't start the fight.
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Defending yourself doesn't include stabbing a unarmed person 12 times man. Florida just has strange laws most places have laws concerning escalation of force. Such as if some one starts a fist fight with you and you pull out a knife and kill him blame transfers to you even if you didn't start the fight.
Read the police report and above posts, how you imagined it happened doesn't matter in the slightest.
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Everyone saying that 12 stabs are a sign of planned, coldblooded murder clearly doesn't know what a desperate situation is and reasons with the mindset of a person sitting comfortable behind a keyboard.
In such situation you don't use your brains, you use your instincts. Especially after you cross the border which the first stab is.
Also, since Florida seems to have such types of laws, every violent idiot growing up there should know better than to bully in such scary ways.
That legitimates the guys actions even more.
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On January 12 2012 00:08 Detwiler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:03 hinnolinn wrote:On January 12 2012 00:00 Detwiler wrote:
Everybody's like read the case. Well I did. Sounds like oh I dont know every freakin school fight ever. Its the 12 wounds that does it in for me. If they fought kid got scared stabbed him and he happened to bleed to death before paramedics got there. Okay self defense he gets a pass. 12 times though? Naw dude thats murder sorry. Its like if some body breaks into my house and I shoot them. They go down and bleed to death before police get there. Self defense. But if he breaks in I shoot him and as he lays there bleeding i walk over and put another in his head thats murder. Seriously, every school fight you've ever heard about consists of a group of older, bigger kids tailing another kid, punching him in the back of the head, surrounding him, and forcing him to fight? The fact you're not doing more to stop that, but are instead insistant on the persecution of the kid that defends himself is astounding. Defending yourself doesn't include stabbing a unarmed person 12 times man. Florida just has strange laws most places have laws concerning escalation of force. Such as if some one starts a fist fight with you and you pull out a knife and kill him blame transfers to you even if you didn't start the fight.
I see. And what is the measure of force being brought against you by bigger, larger people?
Would you say that a 250 pound man beating on a 12 year old is enough force to allow the 12 year old to use a knife? Or should the 12 year old man up and use his fists?
Just because you're choosing to believe this is a sanctioned fight where the two people are within strict weight limits and near the same size doesn't mean that's the case. I see this as somebody that was fearful, tried multiple tacts to avoid the fight, and eventually was forced to fight against somebody older, and bigger, who had friends with him. That doesn't equal a fair fight to begin with, so how can you say there was an escalation of force?
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On January 12 2012 00:05 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:Show nested quote +but the whole "self defense means you have to stab the other guy 12 times in the chest" argument is rubbish. it translates to basically saying that all bullies should face the death penalty.... with the defense "well bullies shouldn't bully in the first place!". Please, stop this ridiculous nonsensical trash, he was not stabbed for bullying, saying he was is taking the situation completely out of context and makes you look like an idiot. He was stabbed in an assault he initiated, and not backing down after the defender drew a weapon. He put the defender into an impossible position that he could not have avoided, and started beating on him, as self defense he drew a weapon but this did not deter him, he kept on beating on him so the defender used the weapon to make him stop. Instead of kids, place yourself in this situation, you are trying your best to avoid 4 guys much, much bigger than you, they follow you off your busstop into a deserted street and beat you in the back of your head and surround you to hold you in place, should you be able to use a weapon? Fuck yes, and saying anything otherwise is ridiculous. You did not initate the situation, you were put in a situation where your life and health could possibly be on the line, you should be able to defend yourself.
that's what bullies do you doughnut...
where does it say the bully saw the knife and didn't back down?
if i found myself in that situation i would have taken a beating.... but let's say i drew a knife. i then realised i was covered in blood, leaning over a dead body with 12 stab wounds in it's chest, i would promptly call the guys in white coats and ask them to fix me.
it's comparable to the kid being a tae kwon do master, fighting back and knocking the bully to the ground... then curb stomping the bully until he was dead.
you're a lunatic if you think that's self defense.
or is there something about wielding a knife that makes you a caveman with no self-control?
if a bully had threatened to fight me i would stay in school and explain to the teacher. then he's effectively responsible for your wellbeing. you don't just tell yourself "if this happens im gonna stab him".
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On January 12 2012 00:12 hinnolinn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:08 Detwiler wrote:On January 12 2012 00:03 hinnolinn wrote:On January 12 2012 00:00 Detwiler wrote:
Everybody's like read the case. Well I did. Sounds like oh I dont know every freakin school fight ever. Its the 12 wounds that does it in for me. If they fought kid got scared stabbed him and he happened to bleed to death before paramedics got there. Okay self defense he gets a pass. 12 times though? Naw dude thats murder sorry. Its like if some body breaks into my house and I shoot them. They go down and bleed to death before police get there. Self defense. But if he breaks in I shoot him and as he lays there bleeding i walk over and put another in his head thats murder. Seriously, every school fight you've ever heard about consists of a group of older, bigger kids tailing another kid, punching him in the back of the head, surrounding him, and forcing him to fight? The fact you're not doing more to stop that, but are instead insistant on the persecution of the kid that defends himself is astounding. Defending yourself doesn't include stabbing a unarmed person 12 times man. Florida just has strange laws most places have laws concerning escalation of force. Such as if some one starts a fist fight with you and you pull out a knife and kill him blame transfers to you even if you didn't start the fight. I see. And what is the measure of force being brought against you by bigger, larger people? Would you say that a 250 pound man beating on a 12 year old is enough force to allow the 12 year old to use a knife? Or should the 12 year old man up and use his fists? Just because you're choosing to believe this is a sanctioned fight where the two people are within strict weight limits and near the same size doesn't mean that's the case. I see this as somebody that was fearful, tried multiple tacts to avoid the fight, and eventually was forced to fight against somebody older, and bigger, who had friends with him. That doesn't equal a fair fight to begin with, so how can you say there was an escalation of force?
It wasnt a 250 pound man beating on a 12 year old so that doesn't apply. I'm not saying the kid should have got murder 1. But for fucks sake regardless of how you try and church it up this was a pretty standard school fight and he killed the other kid with no consequences.
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This was not a standard school fight. The fact that you think it is implies that we're not going to reach a reasonable conclusion to this discussion.
My analogy was more to show that escalation of force laws are dumb in that they mean people have to assign a value to force, and people assign these values differently.
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@above two, read:
Seriously, everyone defending the bully hasn't read the police report or hasn't even thoroughly read the news reports, please, if you're going to cry "it was unjustified", read up on the actual case before making yourself look like a total and complete idiot by making constant "assumptions" - what you think happened means jack shit, and how you feel about what you think happened means even less. If you're not going to do research or read up on the case, don't bother replying, please. You're seriously clogging this thread with trash replies.
The kid that tried his extreme best to avoid the fight was disoriented from repeated punches to the back of his head; his vision was blurred and he could not make out what was happening properly, he took out his knife because he thought he was being attacked by multiple people as he heard the bully and his friends constantly yelling, he blindly stabbed in front of him while the bully, who was completely concious, made no effort to get away, he was still beating up on the kid.
Anyone that has ever been in a fight knows that if you're loaded up with adrenaline you have little control over your actions, pair that with completely blurred vision and disorientation and multiple people yelling around him and blaming the kid for this is, at best, retarded.
Anyone that knows anything about fights and human violence as well, know that humans are very fragile and fights can escalate to extremely dangerous levels very quickly. Even professional people trained for combat make mistakes and judgements in the heat of the moment, much less a 14 year old kid.
A remotely innocent fight between two kids can get lethal within seconds if the bully decides he wants to bash the victims head against the pavement. And anyone suggesting it's better for you to just put yourself in the mercy of the aggressors than to defend yourself when you have the option to is just being plain ridiculous.
This wasn't a "standard school fight" either, they fought on a street, there were no adults nearby to break up the fight in case it got out of hand, he did not call the police and had no one to help him if it got out of control. He was completely on his own against the bully and his friends, all of which were multiple times his size. He could either defend himself in a fight he did everything to avoid, or he could let himself be beaten up and lay at the mercy of a bunch of people that have proven to be extremely violent. Why would you judge him for choosing the former?
It's absolutely retarded, you're making huge assumptions about the situation, "oh they statistically probably wouldn't have killed him, so it was unjustified". Do you really think that kid had time to think about that in the fight? Do you really think it matters at all? Please, get out of your fantasy world.
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On January 12 2012 00:08 Detwiler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:03 hinnolinn wrote:On January 12 2012 00:00 Detwiler wrote:
Everybody's like read the case. Well I did. Sounds like oh I dont know every freakin school fight ever. Its the 12 wounds that does it in for me. If they fought kid got scared stabbed him and he happened to bleed to death before paramedics got there. Okay self defense he gets a pass. 12 times though? Naw dude thats murder sorry. Its like if some body breaks into my house and I shoot them. They go down and bleed to death before police get there. Self defense. But if he breaks in I shoot him and as he lays there bleeding i walk over and put another in his head thats murder. Seriously, every school fight you've ever heard about consists of a group of older, bigger kids tailing another kid, punching him in the back of the head, surrounding him, and forcing him to fight? The fact you're not doing more to stop that, but are instead insistant on the persecution of the kid that defends himself is astounding. Defending yourself doesn't include stabbing a unarmed person 12 times man. Florida just has strange laws most places have laws concerning escalation of force. Such as if some one starts a fist fight with you and you pull out a knife and kill him blame transfers to you even if you didn't start the fight.
Defending yourself includes doing anything you have to do to get the immediate attack to stop. That can include using any implement that comes to your hand against the attacker, and continuing to use your weapon/improvised weapon until they stop.
Due to the high levels of adrenaline involved in a fight, unless you immediately target the jugular or face your assailant is unlikely to notice until they have lost a lot of blood or the fight is over. They will keep coming until they notice. If your stabs cause only superficial wounds as with 10 of the 12 stabs in the case, they will not cause enough pain or blood loss to stop your attacker so continuing to stab is a valid self-defense reaction.
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United States5162 Posts
On January 12 2012 00:15 shizna wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:05 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:but the whole "self defense means you have to stab the other guy 12 times in the chest" argument is rubbish. it translates to basically saying that all bullies should face the death penalty.... with the defense "well bullies shouldn't bully in the first place!". Please, stop this ridiculous nonsensical trash, he was not stabbed for bullying, saying he was is taking the situation completely out of context and makes you look like an idiot. He was stabbed in an assault he initiated, and not backing down after the defender drew a weapon. He put the defender into an impossible position that he could not have avoided, and started beating on him, as self defense he drew a weapon but this did not deter him, he kept on beating on him so the defender used the weapon to make him stop. Instead of kids, place yourself in this situation, you are trying your best to avoid 4 guys much, much bigger than you, they follow you off your busstop into a deserted street and beat you in the back of your head and surround you to hold you in place, should you be able to use a weapon? Fuck yes, and saying anything otherwise is ridiculous. You did not initate the situation, you were put in a situation where your life and health could possibly be on the line, you should be able to defend yourself. that's what bullies do you doughnut... where does it say the bully saw the knife and didn't back down? if i found myself in that situation i would have taken a beating.... but let's say i drew a knife. i then realised i was covered in blood, leaning over a dead body with 12 stab wounds in it's chest, i would promptly call the guys in white coats and ask them to fix me. it's comparable to the kid being a tae kwon do master, fighting back and knocking the bully to the ground... then curb stomping the bully until he was dead. you're a lunatic if you think that's self defense. or is there something about wielding a knife that makes you a caveman with no self-control?
Have you ever been in an actual fight? Do you know what blacking out is? Do you know what the fight or flight response is? Every point you have made flies in the face of human behavior. Except for the TKD master part, because that's just completely illogical. The kid didn't stab him once, stand up, and then start stabbing him again. He cut him 12 times while trying to make him stop beating him up.
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On January 12 2012 00:20 hinnolinn wrote:
This was not a standard school fight. The fact that you think it is implies that we're not going to reach a reasonable conclusion to this discussion.
My analogy was more to show that escalation of force laws are dumb in that they mean people have to assign a value to force, and people assign these values differently.
I dont understand what you mean. not very standard when I was in school I saw a ton of fight go down exactly like that. Hell most of them did. One kid wants to fight the other dont. One kid stalks the other kid down people surround them and they fight.
Its like the blue print for every school fight ever.
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On January 12 2012 00:21 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:15 shizna wrote:On January 12 2012 00:05 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:but the whole "self defense means you have to stab the other guy 12 times in the chest" argument is rubbish. it translates to basically saying that all bullies should face the death penalty.... with the defense "well bullies shouldn't bully in the first place!". Please, stop this ridiculous nonsensical trash, he was not stabbed for bullying, saying he was is taking the situation completely out of context and makes you look like an idiot. He was stabbed in an assault he initiated, and not backing down after the defender drew a weapon. He put the defender into an impossible position that he could not have avoided, and started beating on him, as self defense he drew a weapon but this did not deter him, he kept on beating on him so the defender used the weapon to make him stop. Instead of kids, place yourself in this situation, you are trying your best to avoid 4 guys much, much bigger than you, they follow you off your busstop into a deserted street and beat you in the back of your head and surround you to hold you in place, should you be able to use a weapon? Fuck yes, and saying anything otherwise is ridiculous. You did not initate the situation, you were put in a situation where your life and health could possibly be on the line, you should be able to defend yourself. that's what bullies do you doughnut... where does it say the bully saw the knife and didn't back down? if i found myself in that situation i would have taken a beating.... but let's say i drew a knife. i then realised i was covered in blood, leaning over a dead body with 12 stab wounds in it's chest, i would promptly call the guys in white coats and ask them to fix me. it's comparable to the kid being a tae kwon do master, fighting back and knocking the bully to the ground... then curb stomping the bully until he was dead. you're a lunatic if you think that's self defense. or is there something about wielding a knife that makes you a caveman with no self-control? Have you ever been in an actual fight? Do you know what blacking out is? Do you know what the fight or flight response is? Every point you have made flies in the face of human behavior. Except for the TKD master part, because that's just completely illogical. The kid didn't stab him once, stand up, and then start stabbing him again. He cut him 12 times while trying to make him stop beating him up.
where are you getting this information about 'cutting him' to 'get him to stop' ?
i read a bunch of different articles and all i could find was TWELVE STAB WOUNDS TO THE CHEST AND ABDOMEN.
do you think it's normal human behavior to just stand there and get stabbed 12 times in an area where everyone knows you SHOULD NOT be getting stabbed?
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United States5162 Posts
On January 12 2012 00:25 shizna wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:21 Myles wrote:On January 12 2012 00:15 shizna wrote:On January 12 2012 00:05 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:but the whole "self defense means you have to stab the other guy 12 times in the chest" argument is rubbish. it translates to basically saying that all bullies should face the death penalty.... with the defense "well bullies shouldn't bully in the first place!". Please, stop this ridiculous nonsensical trash, he was not stabbed for bullying, saying he was is taking the situation completely out of context and makes you look like an idiot. He was stabbed in an assault he initiated, and not backing down after the defender drew a weapon. He put the defender into an impossible position that he could not have avoided, and started beating on him, as self defense he drew a weapon but this did not deter him, he kept on beating on him so the defender used the weapon to make him stop. Instead of kids, place yourself in this situation, you are trying your best to avoid 4 guys much, much bigger than you, they follow you off your busstop into a deserted street and beat you in the back of your head and surround you to hold you in place, should you be able to use a weapon? Fuck yes, and saying anything otherwise is ridiculous. You did not initate the situation, you were put in a situation where your life and health could possibly be on the line, you should be able to defend yourself. that's what bullies do you doughnut... where does it say the bully saw the knife and didn't back down? if i found myself in that situation i would have taken a beating.... but let's say i drew a knife. i then realised i was covered in blood, leaning over a dead body with 12 stab wounds in it's chest, i would promptly call the guys in white coats and ask them to fix me. it's comparable to the kid being a tae kwon do master, fighting back and knocking the bully to the ground... then curb stomping the bully until he was dead. you're a lunatic if you think that's self defense. or is there something about wielding a knife that makes you a caveman with no self-control? Have you ever been in an actual fight? Do you know what blacking out is? Do you know what the fight or flight response is? Every point you have made flies in the face of human behavior. Except for the TKD master part, because that's just completely illogical. The kid didn't stab him once, stand up, and then start stabbing him again. He cut him 12 times while trying to make him stop beating him up. where are you getting this information about 'cutting him' to 'get him to stop' ? i read a bunch of different articles and all i could find was TWELVE STAB WOUNDS TO THE CHEST AND ABDOMEN. do you think it's normal human behavior to just stand there get stabbed 12 times in an area where everyone knows you SHOULD NOT be getting stabbed?
It's normal to not feel wounds when adrenaline is pumping, yes.
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On January 12 2012 00:08 Detwiler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:03 hinnolinn wrote:On January 12 2012 00:00 Detwiler wrote:
Everybody's like read the case. Well I did. Sounds like oh I dont know every freakin school fight ever. Its the 12 wounds that does it in for me. If they fought kid got scared stabbed him and he happened to bleed to death before paramedics got there. Okay self defense he gets a pass. 12 times though? Naw dude thats murder sorry. Its like if some body breaks into my house and I shoot them. They go down and bleed to death before police get there. Self defense. But if he breaks in I shoot him and as he lays there bleeding i walk over and put another in his head thats murder. Seriously, every school fight you've ever heard about consists of a group of older, bigger kids tailing another kid, punching him in the back of the head, surrounding him, and forcing him to fight? The fact you're not doing more to stop that, but are instead insistant on the persecution of the kid that defends himself is astounding. Defending yourself doesn't include stabbing a unarmed person 12 times man. Florida just has strange laws most places have laws concerning escalation of force. Such as if some one starts a fist fight with you and you pull out a knife and kill him blame transfers to you even if you didn't start the fight.
It's usually excessive force, not escaltion of force. If someone is about to beat me up it doesn't matter if I use a hands, knife or a gun to defend myself but how I use it. If I shoot him one time and he starts to run away, you can't chase him down and put another bullet in him. It's how you use it and how the attacker react to the situation, you can't just generalize every case and say using a knife is not allowed to be used against an unarmed person. The 12 wounds is more troublesome (legally) than the fact that the attacker died.
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This stuff happens, the child was obviously that badly bullied that he feared for his life I guess.
But School's and Police should be more strict about this stuff, a detention or suspension/explulsion isnt enough anymore...
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On January 12 2012 00:26 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:25 shizna wrote:On January 12 2012 00:21 Myles wrote:On January 12 2012 00:15 shizna wrote:On January 12 2012 00:05 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:but the whole "self defense means you have to stab the other guy 12 times in the chest" argument is rubbish. it translates to basically saying that all bullies should face the death penalty.... with the defense "well bullies shouldn't bully in the first place!". Please, stop this ridiculous nonsensical trash, he was not stabbed for bullying, saying he was is taking the situation completely out of context and makes you look like an idiot. He was stabbed in an assault he initiated, and not backing down after the defender drew a weapon. He put the defender into an impossible position that he could not have avoided, and started beating on him, as self defense he drew a weapon but this did not deter him, he kept on beating on him so the defender used the weapon to make him stop. Instead of kids, place yourself in this situation, you are trying your best to avoid 4 guys much, much bigger than you, they follow you off your busstop into a deserted street and beat you in the back of your head and surround you to hold you in place, should you be able to use a weapon? Fuck yes, and saying anything otherwise is ridiculous. You did not initate the situation, you were put in a situation where your life and health could possibly be on the line, you should be able to defend yourself. that's what bullies do you doughnut... where does it say the bully saw the knife and didn't back down? if i found myself in that situation i would have taken a beating.... but let's say i drew a knife. i then realised i was covered in blood, leaning over a dead body with 12 stab wounds in it's chest, i would promptly call the guys in white coats and ask them to fix me. it's comparable to the kid being a tae kwon do master, fighting back and knocking the bully to the ground... then curb stomping the bully until he was dead. you're a lunatic if you think that's self defense. or is there something about wielding a knife that makes you a caveman with no self-control? Have you ever been in an actual fight? Do you know what blacking out is? Do you know what the fight or flight response is? Every point you have made flies in the face of human behavior. Except for the TKD master part, because that's just completely illogical. The kid didn't stab him once, stand up, and then start stabbing him again. He cut him 12 times while trying to make him stop beating him up. where are you getting this information about 'cutting him' to 'get him to stop' ? i read a bunch of different articles and all i could find was TWELVE STAB WOUNDS TO THE CHEST AND ABDOMEN. do you think it's normal human behavior to just stand there get stabbed 12 times in an area where everyone knows you SHOULD NOT be getting stabbed? It's normal to not feel wounds when adrenaline is pumping, yes.
so you're saying that if you crossed the road and saw a car coming at you, you'd just stand there and take it because the adrenaline would allow you to get back on your feet and continue to cross the road?
or are you saying that the bully DIDNT SEE THE KNIFE ?
because i refuse to believe that a normal bully would continue to fight a crazy kid who brandished a knife. if that unlikely case turns out to be true, of course it would impact my stance.
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United States5162 Posts
I'm going to paraphrase a bit here, but this is part of the report that has been posted numerous times.
"Jorge got off the bus and was walking to his friends house when Dylan approached from behind and punched Jorge in the back of the head. Jorge kept walking to avoid the confrontation and Dylan started throwing more punches to the back of the head. At this time Jorge heard Dylan's friends shouting to 'Hit him again' and 'Hit him harder'. Their voices were getting louder and closer and Jorge was reportedly starting to feel light headed. Jorge felt his life was threatened and thought the other boys might jump in since there were so many people around. This is when he reached for his pocket knife, bent forward, and stabbed Dylan with his knife as the punches continued. Evem after that, he heard Dylan telling his friends 'Go get him'.
Keep in mind, this is after he already tried to get off the bus early to avoid the fight.
On January 12 2012 00:32 shizna wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:26 Myles wrote:On January 12 2012 00:25 shizna wrote:On January 12 2012 00:21 Myles wrote:On January 12 2012 00:15 shizna wrote:On January 12 2012 00:05 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:but the whole "self defense means you have to stab the other guy 12 times in the chest" argument is rubbish. it translates to basically saying that all bullies should face the death penalty.... with the defense "well bullies shouldn't bully in the first place!". Please, stop this ridiculous nonsensical trash, he was not stabbed for bullying, saying he was is taking the situation completely out of context and makes you look like an idiot. He was stabbed in an assault he initiated, and not backing down after the defender drew a weapon. He put the defender into an impossible position that he could not have avoided, and started beating on him, as self defense he drew a weapon but this did not deter him, he kept on beating on him so the defender used the weapon to make him stop. Instead of kids, place yourself in this situation, you are trying your best to avoid 4 guys much, much bigger than you, they follow you off your busstop into a deserted street and beat you in the back of your head and surround you to hold you in place, should you be able to use a weapon? Fuck yes, and saying anything otherwise is ridiculous. You did not initate the situation, you were put in a situation where your life and health could possibly be on the line, you should be able to defend yourself. that's what bullies do you doughnut... where does it say the bully saw the knife and didn't back down? if i found myself in that situation i would have taken a beating.... but let's say i drew a knife. i then realised i was covered in blood, leaning over a dead body with 12 stab wounds in it's chest, i would promptly call the guys in white coats and ask them to fix me. it's comparable to the kid being a tae kwon do master, fighting back and knocking the bully to the ground... then curb stomping the bully until he was dead. you're a lunatic if you think that's self defense. or is there something about wielding a knife that makes you a caveman with no self-control? Have you ever been in an actual fight? Do you know what blacking out is? Do you know what the fight or flight response is? Every point you have made flies in the face of human behavior. Except for the TKD master part, because that's just completely illogical. The kid didn't stab him once, stand up, and then start stabbing him again. He cut him 12 times while trying to make him stop beating him up. where are you getting this information about 'cutting him' to 'get him to stop' ? i read a bunch of different articles and all i could find was TWELVE STAB WOUNDS TO THE CHEST AND ABDOMEN. do you think it's normal human behavior to just stand there get stabbed 12 times in an area where everyone knows you SHOULD NOT be getting stabbed? It's normal to not feel wounds when adrenaline is pumping, yes. so you're saying that if you crossed the road and saw a car coming at you, you'd just stand there and take it because the adrenaline would allow you to get back on your feet and continue to cross the road? or are you saying that the bully DIDNT SEE THE KNIFE ? because i refuse to believe that a normal bully would continue to fight a crazy kid who brandished a knife. if that unlikely case turns out to be true, of course it would impact my stance.
I'm saying that if you're in the middle of a fight that you would not immediately stop fighting even if you were stabbed. About 10 years ago I destroyed all my knee tendons in the middle of a TKD match and continued sparring for another 2 minutes. 30 minutes later I couldn't stand.
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On January 12 2012 00:32 shizna wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 00:26 Myles wrote:On January 12 2012 00:25 shizna wrote:On January 12 2012 00:21 Myles wrote:On January 12 2012 00:15 shizna wrote:On January 12 2012 00:05 BadgerBadger8264 wrote:but the whole "self defense means you have to stab the other guy 12 times in the chest" argument is rubbish. it translates to basically saying that all bullies should face the death penalty.... with the defense "well bullies shouldn't bully in the first place!". Please, stop this ridiculous nonsensical trash, he was not stabbed for bullying, saying he was is taking the situation completely out of context and makes you look like an idiot. He was stabbed in an assault he initiated, and not backing down after the defender drew a weapon. He put the defender into an impossible position that he could not have avoided, and started beating on him, as self defense he drew a weapon but this did not deter him, he kept on beating on him so the defender used the weapon to make him stop. Instead of kids, place yourself in this situation, you are trying your best to avoid 4 guys much, much bigger than you, they follow you off your busstop into a deserted street and beat you in the back of your head and surround you to hold you in place, should you be able to use a weapon? Fuck yes, and saying anything otherwise is ridiculous. You did not initate the situation, you were put in a situation where your life and health could possibly be on the line, you should be able to defend yourself. that's what bullies do you doughnut... where does it say the bully saw the knife and didn't back down? if i found myself in that situation i would have taken a beating.... but let's say i drew a knife. i then realised i was covered in blood, leaning over a dead body with 12 stab wounds in it's chest, i would promptly call the guys in white coats and ask them to fix me. it's comparable to the kid being a tae kwon do master, fighting back and knocking the bully to the ground... then curb stomping the bully until he was dead. you're a lunatic if you think that's self defense. or is there something about wielding a knife that makes you a caveman with no self-control? Have you ever been in an actual fight? Do you know what blacking out is? Do you know what the fight or flight response is? Every point you have made flies in the face of human behavior. Except for the TKD master part, because that's just completely illogical. The kid didn't stab him once, stand up, and then start stabbing him again. He cut him 12 times while trying to make him stop beating him up. where are you getting this information about 'cutting him' to 'get him to stop' ? i read a bunch of different articles and all i could find was TWELVE STAB WOUNDS TO THE CHEST AND ABDOMEN. do you think it's normal human behavior to just stand there get stabbed 12 times in an area where everyone knows you SHOULD NOT be getting stabbed? It's normal to not feel wounds when adrenaline is pumping, yes. so you're saying that if you crossed the road and saw a car coming at you, you'd just stand there and take it because the adrenaline would allow you to get back on your feet and continue to cross the road? or are you saying that the bully DIDNT SEE THE KNIFE ? because i refuse to believe that a normal bully would continue to fight a crazy kid who brandished a knife. if that unlikely case turns out to be true, of course it would impact my stance.
I dont know about the victim but, I think the murderer was so frightened and badly bullied that, he would have thought getting the bully out of his life permamently would make him feel more relieved, and considering his age, he didnt think through what he was about to do or was doing...
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EPT
