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On January 06 2012 07:40 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 07:21 layabout wrote:On January 06 2012 07:00 Blazinghand wrote:
EBWOP: Ostriches. People are not ostriches i <3 this post What do you make of Grackaroni? What do you make of my "case" against him + Show Spoiler + Grackaroni is a largely noncommittal semi-lurk who deserves the scorn of women and the hatred of men. If he somehow made it into the history books, the world would look back upon him and shudder with violent grief. Your case against him is fine. I want to see what he does. Inb4 noncomittal Grack is noncomittal.
And Blazinghand is a god of mafia who deserves a statue built in his honor. 
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Palmar can you help me understand why you don't care about this game at all, thanks
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if that is all you have to say then
vote Grackaroni
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@Layabout. I think what you don't understand is that I see a difference between a day1 lynch and a day vig.
I know perfectly well that Bluelightz is being anti-town but having him as a lynch target won't make anybody take a stand on their vote. Everyone can agree that he is being anti-town and then if he flips town all we will gain from it is BH saying "Damn I'm so pissed off that this player who I completely expected to play well has performed poorly, guess it's his fault." i would avoid this problem with a day vig shot.
On January 05 2012 03:57 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 03:55 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
On Bluelightz:
I will go check out his filter in the newbie game to see what all the fuss is about. You're in for quite the ride.
@BH Do you really hold him up to the same standards as other players that you would be pissed off if he flips town?
If people are going to lynch somebody who I don't think is scum and If I can't find a scum player I will vote Bluelightz, he is simply my backup lynch. (I think he has a greater chance of flipping scum than any random lurker)
His play is anti town but that doesn't mean he is scum.
You're right that I should be shooting the person I vote for but the choice to vote wasn't really thought out. i'm not confident that HoD is scum but I do have my suspicions. The vote was a little bit based off of emotions because I am tired of BH's "be a man and vote" rants. Nevertheless it's not the end of the world as my vote is not locked in stone by any means and I still have more time to look into HoD. (or anyone else for that matter)
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On January 06 2012 08:25 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 03:57 Blazinghand wrote:On January 05 2012 03:55 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
On Bluelightz:
I will go check out his filter in the newbie game to see what all the fuss is about. You're in for quite the ride. @BH Do you really hold him up to the same standards as other players that you would be pissed off if he flips town?
um... what? I'm always pissed when we lynch town >.>
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Erandorr, at the time of this post, has not posted here in about 23 hours.
Jackal, at the time of this post, has not posted here in just under 24 hours.
Mr Wiggles, at the time of this post, has not posted here in over 24 hours.
xsksc, at the time of this post, has not posted here in WELL over 24 hours.
Can we get some replacements?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Hi guys.
First, we aren't lynching Bluelightz today. Reading through his posts, I'm getting a heavy new-town vibe from him. After he got called out, and started posting, this is how I've read him. Some people are saying that his posts sound like he has a scum-team behind him, but honestly, I don't think any scum team would let him post some of the things he did. As well, being calm when tunneled is not a scum tell in my opinion, in fact it's probably the opposite. A townie knows he is innocent, while a scum knows he is guilty. So, if you're being tunneled by someone, in which case do you think you'd be more nervous? When you know the person tunneling you is wrong, or when you know the person tunneling you is correct in their read? That's without even considering that he claims to have been gone during long periods in which he was supposed to be pressured.
So, instead, I present to you all: Palmar
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&user=87086
Palmar is normally a very aggressive and direct townie. He is not afraid to share his reads, to call people out, and to use his vote to pressure. He tunnels, and he is happy to call out bad play when he sees it. However, this is not the Palmar that we have in this game.
For example, take this post:
On January 05 2012 20:21 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 20:07 syllogism wrote:On January 05 2012 19:02 Palmar wrote:
@Syllogism: You seem to be very much against lynching Bluelightz, do you want to explain to me why?
Because people were picking on him for hurrrr not being helpful as scum in Student mafia and then for not posting anything useful within the first three hours of the game, just like everyone else. If he doesn't start posting something useful he might be a decent lynch possibility, but not because he didn't do anything within the first 3 hours. However I still don't see how this is your town play so how about we still lynch you instead. Do you have an excuse for not doing anything yesterday? I've one excuse in mind but I would like to hear it from you. Other than that, for instance lynching risk.nuke http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&user=76576 appears to make much more sense given that we know how he plays town and this clearly isn't it so far. Grackaroni is another given that his only contribution so far has been to randomly tunnel bluelightz for the aforementioned awful reasons. The list of worthless people so far: RoL, risk.nuke, cwave, xsksc, Palmar, Jackal, Erandorr, bluelightz Out of those Palmar is the one least likely to be this inactive as town. You see, I don't disagree with the notion that lynching Bluelightz is bad, I'm just not sure how well I like your reasons for it. I actually think it's unlikely he's scum, not based on the amount he posted, but rather based on what he has posted. I didn't actually want to post yesterday, the time I had to play mafia I spent finishing up resistance, decided to rather just read the thread this morning. It's interesting that you seem to want to paint the picture that I'm always active and useful in the first part of day 1, when you know from experience that I do often ignore the initial discussion. Do you have a specific reason for this? between risk.nuke and Grackaroni, I'd much rather have a look at Grack, since I'm actually willing to wait for risk's initial contribution. I would actually have no problem with lynching people like RoL or Jackal day 1.
It's a post that's all over the place, and it's a post that contains no solid reads except that at that time, he didn't think that Bluelightz was necessarily scum. However, against everyone else, he doesn't provide any solid accusation. He says he wants to look at Grack, and that he would be fine lynching "people like RoL or Jackal". Notice that he doesn't actually say that he'd be fine lynching Jackal or RoL, just people like them, which makes what he said entirely non-committal. It's almost the same thing as saying he wants to lynch lurking vets without calling any out.
In his following posts, he has still yet to provide us with any scum reads, or to even pressure anyone. All he gives us are a couple of town reads and questions for syllo.
Next, is his altercation with Bluelightz, which I find very odd. Earlier, Palmar noted that he thought "it's unlikely he's scum", but then he felt the need to try to pressure him. So, something that Bluelightz posted must have caused some kind of concern for Palmar. The only thing posted by Bluelightz in this time, was his list of reads, so this must have been what set Palmar off. Pressuring Bluelightz to take a stance was fine, but the way in which Palmar did it was odd. Instead of asking Bluelightz who he would like to lynch, he instead came up with some sort of compulsive vig scenario, which doesn't add anything to the thread, and actually ended up detracting from it (see subsequent discussion with people jumping on the question instead of just discussing the lynch). Also, notice that Palmar is pressuring Bluelightz for giving a list of null and green reads, when this is the exact same thing Palmar has done up to this point in the game. It's hypocritical.
So, after he finally gets an answer from Bluelightz, he still doesn't apply any actual pressure to him. He doesn't vote for him, he doesn't ask for people to vote for him, he just said he might vote for him in the future, which does not create pressure, and is completely different from my experience with town Palmar. Palmar doesn't even attack the bad posts made by Bluelightz, where for example he said he would lynch a lurker instead of naming one. Instead, he acts rather timidly compared to the pro-town Palmar I know. He doesn't even end up answering his own question afterwards, even when asked to, refusing yet again to take a stance on scum.
So, I think Palmar is scum for his wishy-washiness, failure to provide any scum-reads, and for his timid posting and interactions. This is doubly condemning in the light of his normal town play, which is the complete opposite of what we see here. This is our Day 1 Lynch.
##Vote: Palmar
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
never mind about Mr. Wiggles it seems he's not afk after all
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On January 06 2012 05:08 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 04:06 Grackaroni wrote:HarbingerofDoom is my scum pick. He was one of the first people into the game and took a lot of time to comment on the setup. (this is what the majority of his posts are about) At the start of the game he asks for us to give strategies for demons/angels which to me seemed weird from a town perspective and not beneficial to town. In Newbie mini Mafia he was very active and spent a lot of time scum hunting. So far there has been no scumhunting done by him On January 05 2012 15:05 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
So how would people feel about lynching Palmar or Erandorr if they don't start posting more? Both have posted nothing of worth so far, Palmar was even active elsewhere on the mafia forum today, and both are known for doing very little as scum. He seems fairly content with lynching a lurker. (Palmar/Errandorr are the only people he's pushed lynches for) Together this paints a picture to me, he is one of the earlier players to sign up, he was here right when the game started, he had the time to post quite a few things about the setup which tells us nothing about his allignment. In another game when he is town he is more active and does a lot of scumhunting but in this game he wants a lurker lynch.(granted it did include some meta with it) He has the time to post but chooses not to. I'll wait for more posts. All but two of my posts as of when you said this occurred while I was one of 5 people with posts in the game. Clearly I shoulda been scum hunting hard with all that info in the thread. I also did not and do not want a lurker lynch today. I wanted Palmar and Erandorr to start contributing, and the thread was fairly inactive at the time, so I thought bringing up a more controversial idea like lynching a couple veteran players might help get things moving, or at least get them contributing a bit more. Also, please don't use my first game ever to establish a meta on me. I've obviously adjusted my play since then. Try checking out Steamship or Election (as TotallyNotTwoPeople, starting game day 2 for when I basically began playing solo) to get a better meta read on me.
That's basically one of the reasons I'm suspicious. You post a lot at the start and then when scumhunting begins you disappear, not that you didn't scumhunt at the start.
The only meta I got from you was that you seemed like somebody who posted a lot and spent a lot of time scumhunting in that game. I should have looked into more recent games but what's wrong with letting me think that of you?
On January 06 2012 05:50 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 05:39 risk.nuke wrote:On January 06 2012 05:08 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
@risk.nuke
Isn't carefree play usually a townie trait? How does seeming carefree implicate bluelightz? The "everyone looks town!" is surely incriminating, but I am not finding the carefree being incriminating. Why would town get nervous when accused? They know they are innocent. Explaining themselves, yes, but I know I get annoyed, not nervous. It depends. If you are having a single one or two people accusing you, you get annoyed. Like I am now now with syllo. Or example in steamship prplhz tried to get me lynched on a bad case. I got annoyed. Then there are situations where you have a majority of people looking suspiciously at you. You've likely messed up and done something to justify their suspicions but you need to defend yourself. If you mess up town mislynch you. There is a situation I would be nervous in. Hmm, a fair point I suppose, but he had about as many people saying he was a bad lynch as he had saying he was a decent target, so I still don't know how much nervousness that would really induce. Also, an accusation from syllo is more likely to be a death-sentence than an accusation from someone like grackaroni or blazinghand, so I would think that would be more of the nervousness inducing suspicion... :-) @Grackaroni Could you please explain why you are using your previous game experience with bluelightz, where he was scum, to influence your opinion of how useful he may end up being as town in this game? Things like that along with your poorly constructed case on me certainly aren't looking very good to me so far, but I'll be checking out your previous games to see what kind of standard you should be held to when it comes to your use of logic/case building.
the first part of your quote strikes me the wrong way because I get the feeling that you just wanted to downplay my abilities, you don't care if I accuse you and think my opinion should be worth less than a veteran like syllogism.
You've done nothing to change my mind, the only person you call scummy is me and your reasoning is that you think my case against you is shitty + you add in my opinion of bluelightz which I don't think you would have even mentioned if I didn't accuse you. Next you make some posts about people lurking and leave. You haven't been scumhunting but you keep giving me reasons to believe that you have lots of time to do so : [previous game with lots of scumhunting and posting, early signup, post a lot on strategies at the start of the game (early to find out it started too) quick to see my post and has time to defend yourself] You're definitely holding back in your posting.
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Also, talking about the set-up for a second, people need to be aware that this game will actually play out much differently to a normal game due to the nature of Angel KP. Each night, when the AoD kills somebody, they will die, unless they are in purgatory or twisted, and if they do, they will not flip. This is very important, as starting on Day 2, we will be at a massive information disadvantage. We will not be able to posthumously read someone's posts with the knowledge that they were sincere. We will not know how many demons are left alive, or how many townies we have for sure or know which power roles are still left. We will not be able to find crumbs from investigative roles. This is a severe disadvantage, and this means that we will have to play around it by not relying on power-roles to help us, or for people to be absolved of suspicion on death. For other townies, it means that you should be doing your best to establish yourself as town, as that is the only way we will be able to trust your reads completely upon dying. The only saving grace, is that the no-flips are confirmed non-angels, which means that we can trust their scum-hunting to an extent, but we have to determine if it is sincere town, sincere demon trying to find angels, or demons trying to misdirect the town. Ideally, demons should be hunting for the angels in the thread, as this is the only way for them to remove the other faction, and it benefits them in the long run.
Until the AoD is killed, we will be at a disadvantage compared to both scum factions with regards to information, and we cannot base any of our play around the use of power-roles which may or may not still be alive.
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Ya I probably should post sometime soon but I am really tired and want to sleep soon. If anyone has any question for me just go ahead, I will provide content of my own tomorrow.
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Yes playing dota 2 all day is quite exhausting
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On January 06 2012 09:16 Erandorr wrote:
Ya I probably should post sometime soon but I am really tired and want to sleep soon. If anyone has any question for me just go ahead, I will provide content of my own tomorrow.
What are your scum reads? What do you think of Palmar? Are you going to vote?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On January 06 2012 08:43 Blazinghand wrote:
Jackal, at the time of this post, has not posted here in 24 hours.
xsksc, at the time of this post, has not posted here in WELL over 24 hours.
Can we get some replacements?
EBWOP
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On January 06 2012 08:43 Blazinghand wrote:
Erandorr, at the time of this post, has not posted here in about 23 hours.
Jackal, at the time of this post, has not posted here in just under 24 hours.
Mr Wiggles, at the time of this post, has not posted here in over 24 hours.
xsksc, at the time of this post, has not posted here in WELL over 24 hours.
Can we get some replacements?
No you can't. Get over your self important self. I have a job. And it's not asking if you'd like fries with that order. When I'm here I'll read the thread and post my opinions and vote accordingly. When I'm not here I'm working or paying bills or fixing shit my wife broke. Mafia is not my career it's how I choose to spend my leisure time. Some days I have more of it than others.
I will post every day. When time permits you'll be sick of seeing me. When work permits I'll post from there. Today was not one of those days. So get over it.
With that said Palmar is most likely scum. When he's town this far in on day 1 he's either becoming excessively belligerent towards people or screaming at people like me to post more.
##Vote: Palmar.
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Okay guys I'm back!
Anyway, holy derp we have votes spread on 4 people ._. I'll be updating my reads on people and looking more closely at people
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On January 06 2012 09:34 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 08:43 Blazinghand wrote:
Erandorr, at the time of this post, has not posted here in about 23 hours.
Jackal, at the time of this post, has not posted here in just under 24 hours.
Mr Wiggles, at the time of this post, has not posted here in over 24 hours.
xsksc, at the time of this post, has not posted here in WELL over 24 hours.
Can we get some replacements?
No you can't. Get over your self important self. I have a job. And it's not asking if you'd like fries with that order. When I'm here I'll read the thread and post my opinions and vote accordingly. When I'm not here I'm working or paying bills or fixing shit my wife broke. Mafia is not my career it's how I choose to spend my leisure time. Some days I have more of it than others. I will post every day. When time permits you'll be sick of seeing me. When work permits I'll post from there. Today was not one of those days. So get over it.
How am I supposed to know if you've legitimately left the thread or not?
On December 28 2011 15:39 Zona wrote:
- You most post in the thread at least once every 24 hours. Your role may also include other activity requirements which you must follow.
Look I can't tell if you have a job or you're busy or whatever, but if you just disappear for 24 hours people are gonna wonder where you've gone. Mafia is obviously second-place to work, sleep, life, etc, but I'd appreciate it if I KNEW IF YOU WERE STILL HERE.
That's all.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On January 06 2012 09:39 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 09:34 Jackal58 wrote:On January 06 2012 08:43 Blazinghand wrote:
Erandorr, at the time of this post, has not posted here in about 23 hours.
Jackal, at the time of this post, has not posted here in just under 24 hours.
Mr Wiggles, at the time of this post, has not posted here in over 24 hours.
xsksc, at the time of this post, has not posted here in WELL over 24 hours.
Can we get some replacements?
No you can't. Get over your self important self. I have a job. And it's not asking if you'd like fries with that order. When I'm here I'll read the thread and post my opinions and vote accordingly. When I'm not here I'm working or paying bills or fixing shit my wife broke. Mafia is not my career it's how I choose to spend my leisure time. Some days I have more of it than others. I will post every day. When time permits you'll be sick of seeing me. When work permits I'll post from there. Today was not one of those days. So get over it. How am I supposed to know if you've legitimately left the thread or not? Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 15:39 Zona wrote:
- You most post in the thread at least once every 24 hours. Your role may also include other activity requirements which you must follow. Look I can't tell if you have a job or you're busy or whatever, but if you just disappear for 24 hours people are gonna wonder where you've gone. Mafia is obviously second-place to work, sleep, life, etc, but I'd appreciate it if I KNEW IF YOU WERE STILL HERE. That's all.
Like I guess it's early in the game or whatever, but that's why I thought "oh maybe Jackal doesn't really care and he's taking a break from the forums and didn't tell anyone."
It wasn't like Bluelightz who said "Hey guys i'm busy, sorry" or anything like that. You just bailed. You bailed for over a day. I thought you were gone, and I figured "well we might as well get some new players in here so we can actually play."
No need to go all lou ferigno on me.
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EPT
