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On November 25 2011 06:13 risk.nuke wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 06:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 25 2011 06:03 risk.nuke wrote:On November 25 2011 06:02 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 25 2011 06:01 risk.nuke wrote:On November 25 2011 05:52 wherebugsgo wrote:
No, I just despise shitty logic. People are annoyed by flaws of others that they posess themselves. that's a huge assumption you're makin' there! I'm stating what to me and based on my experience is a fact. How you wish to relate to it is your business. If you want to say I use shitty logic, go ahead and say it and point out how. Otherwise, you're not really contributing at all by shedding doubt like you are now. The simple fact of the matter is, both youngminii and nisani are being dumb for thinking that a persuasive townie is bad when this game revolves around persuasion. Both sides use persuasion in this game, and if you think persuasion is bad then you're not playing mafia, or you grossly misunderstand the whole point of this game. Single townies only know their own identities. It's up to them to come up with reads based on logic and reasoning and then persuade others to believe them. If any of you townies truly think that a persuasive, pro-town scumhunter is a bad choice for mayor I just don't know what to say. For now youngminii is the best choice for a day 1 lynch, because I really doubt he's stupid, but he supports Nisani's idea that a persuasive mayor is a bad one. lol you're the ones sidetracking with your bloody cook-fight. About the game, all I know right know is I don't want Palmar for mayor because he's to dangerous and I don't want you because you are too emotional. I haven't decided whom I think is a good lynch for today. Today with assembling my Proleague team i haven't had much time over for mafia.
I said nothing about Nisani personally. He's the one who said I hate him (which is wrong)
I just said his logic is trash.
Yours is pretty bad too lololol. I don't think you've mixed up the definitions of "abrasive" and "emotional." I'm an abrasive player, and I don't tolerate bad logic. That's pretty much it.
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I hate him, if you need someone to hate him. I hate him with a fiery passion.
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On November 25 2011 06:13 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 06:03 Drazerk wrote:On November 25 2011 05:59 Toadesstern wrote:On November 25 2011 05:51 Nisani201 wrote:
BREAKING NEWS
WHEREBUGSGO HATES ME! is there some grudge going on between the two of you? I mean, this kind of thing is not going to help I guess. On the youngminii topic - Last game everyone told us afterwards it's never the easy one on day1. I think youngminii is the easy one right now since everyone's going after him. Therefore he should be clean. Also would be awesome to have a list of players with the numbers of games they already played so far here. I just don't know who's a vet and who's not. Obviously those guys who got like 30 posts are not going to be vets but other than that it would make things easier to judge if couple things are just strange because the guy in question in new to this game or if it's strange but this guy is a really decent player and therefore it's even more strange. Just because someone is playing bad and is an "easy" target does not make them clean in Real time Mafia both myself and VisceraEyes we're the easy targets and we was both scum. We should still pressure YM but don't pardon him because he is an easy lynch as their is some resistance towards him being lynched. yeah it was kind of an exaggeration to say clean. I just wanted to point this out because last game it was pointed out to me. I am scared that he'll flip green because of everything going on right now. Of course we should keep pressuring him and everyone that makes those kind of mistakes. I'm just saying it's not an easy day2 vote for me right now because that's what it sounds like to me according what most people say. Also I do like what wherebugs said about the mayor and himself being another possibilty ad frankly what he said fits what I'm feeling right now. I don't like palmars and sandrobas campaign because imo it's just a lot of text without content while bc and now wherebugs too keep it clean and simple. The reason I'm not voting for bc is his dt plan although I like his attitude. Wherebugs got kind of the same attitude without having that dt plan I don't like but he's at 0 votes. So right now I'm on wherebugs for these mentioned reasons. (Do I have to type in my vote in here too with <b></b> to make sure I actually voted in the other thread?^^)
EBWOP:
fail, checked dict.cc to see how it is written in english and copyed it. Endet up copying the wrong word :p
What I meant was exaggeration. Don't even know what the first word means, even with a translator :p
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On November 25 2011 05:49 sandroba wrote:I don't think he is scum and I won't be lynching him if I'm elected. His play is careless and not well thought out. He is out there saying controversial stuff in a rough manner. He is not trying to avoid suspicion at all, which is what normally points towards a person being scum. His posts are not well constructed and he seems to be responding with impulsion. I have someone else in mind which I will provide analysis later, as I'm hoping to gather more evidence.
You think repeatedly attacking Palmar is controversial?
Palmar is a pretty easy player to attack, IMO. You can almost always get away with it because he's an experienced player and you can say pretty much anything bad about an experienced player you want, since most of them are good at both alignments.
I mean, the argument would make sense if it looks like Palmar is pushing a scum agenda. That isn't true though, Palmar has done nothing yet to suggest anything of the sort. Instead, youngminii contradicts himself and then when he goes back to defend the pointed out contradiction he derps hard.
Then he supports, of all people, Nisani's logic. It just doesn't make sense.
I've never played with him before, obviously, but I know he's a vet. Does he normally play like this? Is this why you lean town on him right now? Most vets, from my experience, would not support such bad logic.
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On November 25 2011 06:15 Palmar wrote:
There is no such thing as writing too much Toadesstern.
I write alot because:
a) I have a lot to say
b) I have plenty of time
c) I have nothing to fear
All of which make me a good candidate.
I basicly have been doing the same thing the last couple of games as a townie sometimes it ended up helping town a lot sometimes it did not. I'm just seeing this the first time from an outside perspective.
I can see how there's a lot of text that appears to be nothing in detail on day1 since there's just so little to work with.
I told myself to stop posting that much because I think it ended up hurting town last game. Although I'm obviously failing at not posting a lot right now. It sure gives us something to talk about it and therefore it's totally fine. However I'm still lacking something to go with. Like a basic idea behind your posts (like the dt plan bc got which I don't like).
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On November 25 2011 04:51 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 04:02 layabout wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 25 2011 03:19 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 03:08 layabout wrote:On November 24 2011 22:02 Jackal58 wrote:
Good morning, role received, game on.
Palmar
Sandroba
BC
Decon.
Any one of you would make an excellent choice for mayor. If you're town. All 4 of you scare the hell out of me if you're scum.
If you would please tell us who or how you will determine who is the person you will lynch on day 1?
If you are a noob please consider the fact that while each of those candidates all had an 80% (That's the percentage you're looking for Palmar) probability of rolling town the probability that one of them is scum is damn near 100%. I am calling you out on your math! + Show Spoiler + if the probability that a player is mafia is 0.2, then for four players:
X~B(4,0.2)
p(X=0)= (4^C0)x(0.2^0)x(0.8^4)
=0.4096
(where 4^Cr) represents
so, the probabilty none of the 4 players is mafia (they are all town) is approxiamately 41%
similarly the probabilty than 1 player is mafia is,
(4^c1)x(0.2^1)x(0.2^3)=4x0.2x0.521
=0.4096
(the probability that 2 are mafia is 0.1536, that 3 are mafia is 0.0256 that all 4 are mafia is 0.0016)
so 1 player being mafia is also around 41%
sir, if you round 41 to 100 then you are either a liar or a (math) liabilty! seeing as we will pick 2 candidates it may be of use to note that P(0scum) = 64% P(1scum)=32% P2scum)=4% (this assumes an equal chance of a player being mafia which may not be the case) Some Initial thoughts perhap we should consider adjusting our expectations for how the major and sheriff should behave. these are very powerful roles and as such, if a scum were given one of these roles they pose a serious threat to town, particularly because it is likely that many of us will consider them as an asset to town. I think that we should ensure that both roles actively post so that we can have information available to analyse. Personally, i favor Palmar as major because what i have seen of his playstyle indicates that as town he poses a threat to mafia, and because i think that he will not be able to provide the amount of analysis as scum as he would as town without looking like scum. Also, if he is town he is probably a a high priority target for mafia, although this could apply to other experienced and therefore "valued" players. Just to clarify, we want experienced players as both major and sheriff correct? And should we vote for a deliberate player as sheriff rather than it becoming whoever gets second place? (so is there a resonable case for a newer player that could be openly directed or a player that has experience but not enough to win the game for mafia should they be elected) (and i am aware that there have been some attempts to answer this question, at least, in part) If a major encourages policies that favour posts in which player clearly outline their resoning and thought processes (when possible) then i would be happy. Do all the math you want. One of those 4 I listed are most likely from the scum team. I am going to go watch football and eat to much. I'll be back later. then can you please justify why you think that one of them is scum? For real? Because it's a position that makes them immune to night actions. Because it's a position that allows them to ensure day 1 lynch isn't one of them. Because it's a position that gives them early game leverage.
is it helpful to point out that this does not directly answer the question it is supposed to be answering? i simply ask because (and this should be obvious) my post count makes me feel inadequate. =(
whilst there seems to be an argument that the ideal mayor is a vet town player, there also seems to be a suggestion that the host will pick experienced players to be Mafia, so there is a higher chance that if we elect an experienced player that they will be scum. I think that we should take this risk.
i would also like to make a suggestion.
towards the end of day 1 we will have far more information than we did when we began and than we have at present.
we already have candidates and 3 pages of voting for them.
there has also been discussion and players will have some reads on players(although they aren't entirely reliable).
Could we use this information to pick players that we think would make mayors and encourage them to stand for election? this would also mean avoiding the candidate(s) that the Mafia is most likely pushing.
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On November 25 2011 06:27 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 06:15 Palmar wrote:
There is no such thing as writing too much Toadesstern.
I write alot because:
a) I have a lot to say
b) I have plenty of time
c) I have nothing to fear
All of which make me a good candidate. I basicly have been doing the same thing the last couple of games as a townie sometimes it ended up helping town a lot sometimes it did not. I'm just seeing this the first time from an outside perspective. I can see how there's a lot of text that appears to be nothing in detail on day1 since there's just so little to work with. I told myself to stop posting that much because I think it ended up hurting town last game. Although I'm obviously failing at not posting a lot right now. It sure gives us something to talk about it and therefore it's totally fine. However I'm still lacking something to go with. Like a basic idea behind your posts (like the dt plan bc got which I don't like).
I'm not going to come up with a plan, if that's what you're looking after.
What I will do is keep doing this kind of stuff:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12431198
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12428066
[link]
[*] I will call people out on bullshit
[*] I will scumhunt
[*] I will be active
[*] I will be transparent
[/link]
Again, there is no such thing as posting too much. The only problem is when you post bullshit. You have to actually use your head when you post. You cannot hurt town by posting too much logical and reasonable stuff.
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On the few games I played with him he was town I think in all of them. I thought he was suspicious several times for exactly this reason, his logic was terrible (real time mafia and ptp2 come to mind). I realize this doesn't make him town, but I'm wary of lynching him based on bad logic alone.
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On November 25 2011 06:27 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 06:15 Palmar wrote:
There is no such thing as writing too much Toadesstern.
I write alot because:
a) I have a lot to say
b) I have plenty of time
c) I have nothing to fear
All of which make me a good candidate. I basicly have been doing the same thing the last couple of games as a townie sometimes it ended up helping town a lot sometimes it did not. I'm just seeing this the first time from an outside perspective. I can see how there's a lot of text that appears to be nothing in detail on day1 since there's just so little to work with. I told myself to stop posting that much because I think it ended up hurting town last game.
That heavily depends on the town. If you have a lazynoobtown, they probably won't read everything you say.
I guess in this game you can post a lot. As long as you keep it in a pleasant format I have no doubt that the more experienced players will read it and be glad about the informations they gain about you.
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Edit: That was a response to wbg.
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On November 25 2011 06:32 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 06:27 Toadesstern wrote:On November 25 2011 06:15 Palmar wrote:
There is no such thing as writing too much Toadesstern.
I write alot because:
a) I have a lot to say
b) I have plenty of time
c) I have nothing to fear
All of which make me a good candidate. I basicly have been doing the same thing the last couple of games as a townie sometimes it ended up helping town a lot sometimes it did not. I'm just seeing this the first time from an outside perspective. I can see how there's a lot of text that appears to be nothing in detail on day1 since there's just so little to work with. I told myself to stop posting that much because I think it ended up hurting town last game. Although I'm obviously failing at not posting a lot right now. It sure gives us something to talk about it and therefore it's totally fine. However I'm still lacking something to go with. Like a basic idea behind your posts (like the dt plan bc got which I don't like). I'm not going to come up with a plan, if that's what you're looking after. What I will do is keep doing this kind of stuff: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12431198http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12428066[link] [*] I will call people out on bullshit [*] I will scumhunt [*] I will be active [*] I will be transparent [/link] Again, there is no such thing as posting too much. The only problem is when you post bullshit. You have to actually use your head when you post. You cannot hurt town by posting too much logical and reasonable stuff.
I am saying I would like to get your thoughts (as well as everyone elses thoughts) about the reads we got right now.
Not just the situation with youngminii but that as well. Give us a little insight in what you think of people who posted a lot until now.
What do you think about those things wherebugs said most recently? What do you think about all those other guys running for mayor? Do you think we got something to look at right now?
I don't want you to make a plan. I can't cover this with experience but imo those plans are never ever going the way they're meant to or are somehow affected by mafia which makes it hard. I just want to hear some facts about your thoughts.
This is of course not only for you but for everyone who wants my vote.
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I'm replacing Meapak in MMX so I'm going to focus on that for the last day. As such I'm withdrawing from my run for mayor. Didn't really have much support anyway.
Palmar or Sandro will probably be my choice.
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he has completely changed his play since that game.
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On November 25 2011 06:39 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 06:32 Palmar wrote:On November 25 2011 06:27 Toadesstern wrote:On November 25 2011 06:15 Palmar wrote:
There is no such thing as writing too much Toadesstern.
I write alot because:
a) I have a lot to say
b) I have plenty of time
c) I have nothing to fear
All of which make me a good candidate. I basicly have been doing the same thing the last couple of games as a townie sometimes it ended up helping town a lot sometimes it did not. I'm just seeing this the first time from an outside perspective. I can see how there's a lot of text that appears to be nothing in detail on day1 since there's just so little to work with. I told myself to stop posting that much because I think it ended up hurting town last game. Although I'm obviously failing at not posting a lot right now. It sure gives us something to talk about it and therefore it's totally fine. However I'm still lacking something to go with. Like a basic idea behind your posts (like the dt plan bc got which I don't like). I'm not going to come up with a plan, if that's what you're looking after. What I will do is keep doing this kind of stuff: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12431198http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12428066[link] [*] I will call people out on bullshit [*] I will scumhunt [*] I will be active [*] I will be transparent [/link] Again, there is no such thing as posting too much. The only problem is when you post bullshit. You have to actually use your head when you post. You cannot hurt town by posting too much logical and reasonable stuff. I am saying I would like to get your thoughts (as well as everyone elses thoughts) about the reads we got right now. Not just the situation with youngminii but that as well. Give us a little insight in what you think of people who posted a lot until now. What do you think about those things wherebugs said most recently? What do you think about all those other guys running for mayor? Do you think we got something to look at right now? I don't want you to make a plan. I can't cover this with experience but imo those plans are never ever going the way they're meant to or are somehow affected by mafia which makes it hard. I just want to hear some facts about your thoughts. This is of course not only for you but for everyone who wants my vote.
Plans are good as discussion starters.
Wherebugsgo is simple. He has only made logical calls up until now, and I think he's become a better player recently. Which means we just kill him as soon as he starts doing stupid stuff. If he never does stupid stuff, he's probably not scum. I have no interest in lynching WBG.
He's aggressive, passionate and a bit of an asshole, kinda like myself. But he is good enough to be called out on bullshit, which makes him easy to deal with. It's much harder to call out newbies on bullshit, because they might be bullshitting because they just don't know better. Vets know not to say stupid stuff as town.
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I've had a change of heart.
Palmar, I'll support you if you decide to lynch BC. I can't see how a detective/rolecop day 1 plan to check their sanity would be feasible in a huge game like this with so many new players. You'd think a player of his experience would know better than that.
I mean, he recognises that certain things aren't possible in a game like this: "Also, enforcing a Policy Lynch system like LAL in a game of noobies who do not realize just how bad a lie is in this game is not productive. It is good to educate them that lying is bad but until they see the downside to it we will not get them to stop."
He reeks of scum.
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On November 25 2011 06:45 youngminii wrote:
I've had a change of heart.
Palmar, I'll support you if you decide to lynch BC. I can't see how a detective/rolecop day 1 plan to check their sanity would be feasible in a huge game like this with so many new players. You'd think a player of his experience would know better than that.
I mean, he recognises that certain things aren't possible in a game like this: "Also, enforcing a Policy Lynch system like LAL in a game of noobies who do not realize just how bad a lie is in this game is not productive. It is good to educate them that lying is bad but until they see the downside to it we will not get them to stop."
He reeks of scum.
Is this some kind of bad sarcasm?
I'm actually in favour of the future mayor lynching BC because of his idiotic DT plan, regardless of who the mayor is.
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On November 25 2011 06:31 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 04:51 Jackal58 wrote:On November 25 2011 04:02 layabout wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 25 2011 03:19 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 03:08 layabout wrote:On November 24 2011 22:02 Jackal58 wrote:
Good morning, role received, game on.
Palmar
Sandroba
BC
Decon.
Any one of you would make an excellent choice for mayor. If you're town. All 4 of you scare the hell out of me if you're scum.
If you would please tell us who or how you will determine who is the person you will lynch on day 1?
If you are a noob please consider the fact that while each of those candidates all had an 80% (That's the percentage you're looking for Palmar) probability of rolling town the probability that one of them is scum is damn near 100%. I am calling you out on your math! + Show Spoiler + if the probability that a player is mafia is 0.2, then for four players:
X~B(4,0.2)
p(X=0)= (4^C0)x(0.2^0)x(0.8^4)
=0.4096
(where 4^Cr) represents
so, the probabilty none of the 4 players is mafia (they are all town) is approxiamately 41%
similarly the probabilty than 1 player is mafia is,
(4^c1)x(0.2^1)x(0.2^3)=4x0.2x0.521
=0.4096
(the probability that 2 are mafia is 0.1536, that 3 are mafia is 0.0256 that all 4 are mafia is 0.0016)
so 1 player being mafia is also around 41%
sir, if you round 41 to 100 then you are either a liar or a (math) liabilty! seeing as we will pick 2 candidates it may be of use to note that P(0scum) = 64% P(1scum)=32% P2scum)=4% (this assumes an equal chance of a player being mafia which may not be the case) Some Initial thoughts perhap we should consider adjusting our expectations for how the major and sheriff should behave. these are very powerful roles and as such, if a scum were given one of these roles they pose a serious threat to town, particularly because it is likely that many of us will consider them as an asset to town. I think that we should ensure that both roles actively post so that we can have information available to analyse. Personally, i favor Palmar as major because what i have seen of his playstyle indicates that as town he poses a threat to mafia, and because i think that he will not be able to provide the amount of analysis as scum as he would as town without looking like scum. Also, if he is town he is probably a a high priority target for mafia, although this could apply to other experienced and therefore "valued" players. Just to clarify, we want experienced players as both major and sheriff correct? And should we vote for a deliberate player as sheriff rather than it becoming whoever gets second place? (so is there a resonable case for a newer player that could be openly directed or a player that has experience but not enough to win the game for mafia should they be elected) (and i am aware that there have been some attempts to answer this question, at least, in part) If a major encourages policies that favour posts in which player clearly outline their resoning and thought processes (when possible) then i would be happy. Do all the math you want. One of those 4 I listed are most likely from the scum team. I am going to go watch football and eat to much. I'll be back later. then can you please justify why you think that one of them is scum? For real? Because it's a position that makes them immune to night actions. Because it's a position that allows them to ensure day 1 lynch isn't one of them. Because it's a position that gives them early game leverage. is it helpful to point out that this does not directly answer the question it is supposed to be answering? i simply ask because (and this should be obvious) my post count makes me feel inadequate. =( whilst there seems to be an argument that the ideal mayor is a vet town player, there also seems to be a suggestion that the host will pick experienced players to be Mafia, so there is a higher chance that if we elect an experienced player that they will be scum. I think that we should take this risk. i would also like to make a suggestion. towards the end of day 1 we will have far more information than we did when we began and than we have at present. we already have candidates and 3 pages of voting for them. there has also been discussion and players will have some reads on players(although they aren't entirely reliable). Could we use this information to pick players that we think would make mayors and encourage them to stand for election? this would also mean avoiding the candidate(s) that the Mafia is most likely pushing.
yeah totally fine to point out those things. However imo he covered the question although he didn't explicitly said why he thinks so. He basicly said it's a powerful role, therefore there's no reason not to try and get a mafia-vet in there if you're mafia.
About the second one. I don't think people are saying gm is going to pick a lot of vets and put them into mafia. They're saying that they think gm made sure both teams got an equal amount of vets (whatever that means given there's more townies than mafia). Just to make sure it's not going to be all vets = townie and therefore an easy win because those mafia players don't know what to do.
And yeah. I still don't like all that voting so early without information people are doing for this whole day.
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EPT
