EPTNew HotS Units/Abilities in Blizzcon - Page 367
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bRiz
United States113 Posts
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antsache
United States12 Posts
On October 25 2011 18:37 natehhggh wrote: in 2v2's have him repair you get 1 min per health and i think that is more than the cost of repair unlimited minerals Do it on a zero-gas-cost structure with a good cost/health ratio to improve the results. Barracks or Refinery would be ideal, in that regard. Since full-health repairs cost 1/4 of the structure's cost, you could take 1000 HP off a barracks for 1000 minerals gained and the repairs would cost only 37.5 minerals. Will it work against shields? If so, you could just do laps around a Protoss partner's base hitting different buildings and letting the other recharge. Of course, the easy solution to this is to just make it impossible to target friendly structures  | ||
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Olsson
Sweden931 Posts
- Lack of scouting. We need info to react as the most reactive race. - No area holding unit. We needed the lurker and our best unit at the job is baneling. - Bad units. We needed a unit like the infestor because all the other units were bad. We dont now. None of these things are solved in HOTS and I do like the two new units I don't think they will neccesarely help zerg. | ||
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biamila
Canada335 Posts
my understanding is that the warhounds GtG attack is strong versus MECHANICAL, not armoured. That's what it says in the description, at least. If so, this would make it very ineffective against Zerg ground units, so it fills a different Vs ground role than Marauders (strong versus armour). Versus Zerg then, it would be almost exclusively useful versus mutas. IF this is accurate, also, it would make them strong against hellions, which could make for some interesting play... | ||
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
Also a replicator, no idea what this is good for. Making my own Ghosts will be nice but aside from that? It will nullify Colossi play in PvP since you can fake the Colossi for 100 less minerals and don't have to spend money on Robo bay+Thermal lance. Fungal + Storm could be nice but will that actually help the gameplay? I don't think so.. Also I can block minerals and production, this can be either incredible good or incredible bad I'm not sure right now. (propably crazy good for all-ins against Terran, because you can block one production building (like, he just got a factory and it is useless for 45-90 seconds) but will it be worth the cost? I would have loved a special unit like the new Zerg Units or the Terran Shredder. This way I feel we will see Immortal+ Oracle+Gateway unit all ins (Protoss 1-1-1 with 1-3 or something) I hope they change every single unit for Protoss entirely. Or prove me wrong  | ||
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SaTuR
Chile18 Posts
funny | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
Destiny would be having a field day with the fungal/dark swarm combo to keep enemies in place. He said that he thinks the Viper is ridiculously OP. Carrier which was the epitome of protoss army look, scrapped. This is not BW 2.0. If you want to play BW, no one is stopping you. Some of us want to play a new game. Plain AoE periodical attacks just don't have the feel of a capital ship and they look unfun. oh, you were at blizzcon? Because every single person that played the new tempest, said it was the most fun unit ever. All design and balance issues aside, it is undoubtedly an extremely fun unit and definitely has a capital ship feel. It's fucking huge, it wrecks face, and just looks awesome. It's attack is quite distracting though, I'm sure they will tune it down. I really hope people who didn't even play the new unit don't just bitch the tempest out of oblivion. The carrier is only good against mass siege tanks, and right now people dont' do that in Sc2 due to marauders and immortals. You need to decide if you are a fan of Blizzard, or a fan of BW, because I want a new game. Nothing will be better than BW, so I hope no one tries to remake it, because it won't work. So please. Added a unit that goes around and autoattacks. Even though we all know it's a Goliath, they prefer to not call it a Goliath and make it look worse. Terrible addition from the spectator standpoints. The goliath was always needed. In WOL development they said T needs the goliath, but if they had it, then no one would use the thor. They gave the thor AA splash and range, but it is just too big of a unit model and too expensive. T just needs a goliath, no way around it. Added a firebat that transforms from a Hellion. Now firebats are known for some fun moments in SC, but these one lack speed. Furthermore, for some strange reason it is not called a Firebat. Firebat is an early game TvZ unit. Battle-Hellion is a lategame TvP unit. Big difference. Battle hellions are bad against zerglings due to their damage and immobility. In BW firebats worked due to pathing, and how early they came out. The firebat was much less durable, and so was bad against Protoss. Made a step towards scrapping Thor entirely in Legacy of the Void. Now, after all these years, Browder still doesn't realize that "megaunits" are a terrible concept in a game like SC. However, they are moving towards the removal of the thor, so I like it. You are aware they they know the thor and megaunits are useless right? They know these units have no competitive role right? Do you just like hearing yourself talk? The Thor is meant to appeal to low level players. It's a bad unit in actual play, but it's cool. If you are in bronze, you can have fun making them, if you are even diamond, they are useless. They know this. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
Also a replicator, no idea what this is good for. Making my own Ghosts will be nice but aside from that? It will nullify Colossi play in PvP since you can fake the Colossi for 100 less minerals and don't have to spend money on Robo bay+Thermal lance. Fungal + Storm could be nice but will that actually help the gameplay? I don't think so.. Also I can block minerals and NO MASSIVE NO MASSIVE READ GDMIT. Replicator is to help the identified Protoss problem of not enough strategies. That's it. Have replicator, have fun. It will definitely give P some new strats. That's it. So Protoss got a high-end unit to deal with the mass muta you never see against P.. thanks. Agreed. but I think maybe the tempest isn't meant for high level play? | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
I read somewhere it's 8 ( +11 to light ) but how blueflame affect the unit ? Knowing if battlehellion still 2 shot zergling with blueflame is kinda a big deal. | ||
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Kal_rA
United States2925 Posts
On October 22 2011 07:02 ayaz2810 wrote: If she were higher up in the tech tree. Which would fuck you for creep spreading and larva injects. So.... no. Well your not going to need detection till later on.. People fuck up continuously and have extra energy.. I'm sure you can spare one creep tumor or larva inject to get detection for one unit. Regarding her not being high enough on the tech tree, make it require lair? Or evo chamber. I think evo chamber fits the role well too.. | ||
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ToastieNL
Netherlands845 Posts
On October 26 2011 05:33 Belial88 wrote: NO MASSIVE NO MASSIVE READ GDMIT. Replicator is to help the identified Protoss problem of not enough strategies. That's it. Have replicator, have fun. It will definitely give P some new strats. That's it. Agreed. but I think maybe the tempest isn't meant for high level play? Neither are marines, selact, stim, attack, still, they can be made useful with very good tactics. I'm so afraid of UberThor with mass repair | ||
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
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antsache
United States12 Posts
On October 26 2011 05:41 bonifaceviii wrote: I still don't understand why terran needs the shredder if they have planetary fortresses. In fact, I would be more inclined to give the shredder to Protoss as a robotics unit or something. You CAN use PFs spread around the map to control space, but it's really expensive and, once in place, cannot be relocated. They also can't hit air. Shredders give Terran similar area denial capability, but the unit will be far cheaper, do even better AoE, and hit air, but can't be used as an expansion. I think it's meant to actually replace the PF in the role of the "put somewhere on the map; now zerglings can't go here" thing. It should see a lot more use than the PF does in that role, since it's cheaper and can be re-positioned. It could also be used as part of a mech push - Shredders right in front of tanks could be leap-frogged forward just like the tanks, or repositioned to block chokes that, say, zerglings may try to use for a surround. Can't do that with PFs. Oh, and you can't drop a PF in a mineral line. | ||
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RockOut
Norway39 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
Can't 1/1/1 a protoss who has cloaked banshees and siege tanks can you? | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
On October 25 2011 15:52 Belial88 wrote: I can assure you, you won't miss the mothership when you play the new units. The carrier is not bad because of stats. It's because it's only good at killing mass siege tanks. When Terran starts going mass siege tank in TvP lategame, you'll see carriers again. The mothership isn't an issue of stats either. It's not that it's a bad unit, per se, it's that it fails to both pro players and lower level players. The MS was made to appleal to low level players. But the cloak field means it's a high priority target so it always dies right away. It's usage comes in it's spells, which is hard for low level players to utilize. For high level players, it simply comes too late in the game to make an impact and is way too vulnerable. The new thor has an aoe damage spell, but is very 'a move friendly' as they put it. You don't need to cast it's spell for it to rip stuff up, it's large, strong, and attacks easily. It feels strong. It isn't a particularly high priority target compared to other units present, but it is definitely a tank. Pro players won't use it (600/400 cost, fusion core and armory required) but low level players will appreciate it. Correct me if I'm wrong but you said nothing concrete in truly justifying why they were removed. You just gave me your opinion on the 2 units. Mothership play has just started to develop, and it's looking pretty good in PvZ. Carriers work well with the right support. The new units do not replace them in any manner either. The Nexus Mass recall is also not the same as the Mothership. Also please do not assure me of what I'm going to feel, especially from a zerg player who has a history of anti-protoss sentiments. | ||
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kiniko
Canada163 Posts
On October 26 2011 05:29 Belial88 wrote: [quote You need to decide if you are a fan of Blizzard, or a fan of BW, because I want a new game. Nothing will be better than BW, so I hope no one tries to remake it, because it won't work. This does not make sense at all. I want to be a fan of sc2, and i want this game to be better than BW. I don't want to be a blizzard fanboy who will lap up every stupid unit they put up and want them to push the envelope and make its sequel better than the predecessor. If SC2 is suppose to be a "new game", it should not be called starcraft. The sequel is suppose to be better than the original, and if SC2 will never be better than sc1 like you claim, why even bother playing/developing it? And the replicator unit just shows how out of idea the blizzard development team is. These are sad days. | ||
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Mystogun
United States392 Posts
Take PvT for example. We pretty much have to open robotics every game to be completely safe from everything, and that naturally leads to colossus tech. T sees colossus, vikings get produced. Vikings happen to counter carriers, and thus we cannot transition into carriers. Same thing with PvZ. Corruptors and vikings are just too good at destroying colossus. I also think the carrier much better fits into SC lore than colossus, so we just get rid of colossus and we're good. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
Neither are marines, selact, stim, attack, still, they can be made useful with very good tactics. I'm so afraid of UberThor with mass repair I have no idea what you are talking about. Regular thor with repair is no longer a problem, I can assure you making it so thor requires starport and fusion core isn't going to make repair easier. Correct me if I'm wrong but you said nothing concrete in truly justifying why they were removed. You just gave me your opinion on the 2 units. Mothership play has just started to develop, and it's looking pretty good in PvZ. Carriers work well with the right support. I gave Blizzard's opinion on the 2 units. Mothership play is very niche, and rarely swings a game one way or another. It's used by one or two players, maybe a game here or there, but it's really quite rare, and when used is pretty unnecessary. But competitive play isn't where the mothership is being focused. It was always a newb unit to be used by low level players just for fun. The problem was that with it's cloaking field, it was always focus fired immediately. With it's slow speed and focus on spells rather than attacks, it was also very micro intensive to use. Low level players couldn't both cast its spells and keep up with the game. The mothership, as an attacking unit, was useless, and it always died before a low level player could do anything. So that's why they removed it, and replaced it with the Oracle (cant have a million units for each race, or for one race). As for the carrier, it's just out of place in this game. It was used in BW to break siege tank lines. You could use it in SC2 to break siege tank lines. Thing is, no one makes siege tank lines in TvP lategame anymore. It's a unit designed to counter a strat that doesn't exist. Carriers do not work well in this game, despite Hongun using them. These units are rarely used, and rarely make an impact on the game in a way just playing normally would not have. The Mothership and Carrier filled no useful role. That's the truth of the matter. And no, the nexus mass recall is not the same. it's more useful. Also please do not assure me of what I'm going to feel, especially from a zerg player who has a history of anti-protoss sentiments. Then maybe you shouldn't post and badmouth the units when you have no clue what you are talking about. You say completely ridiculous things that clearly show you have no idea what you are talking about. | ||
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Reaper51
Canada64 Posts
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