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On October 25 2011 01:22 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 01:18 Daralii wrote:On October 25 2011 01:14 Ghostcom wrote:
I've been wondering - has the shredder got a timelimit (i.e. energy that it uses)? And can it be redeployed or is it a 1-time use (either permanently in an area or until energy is used up)? From watching the videos it seems like it hasn't got a limit, but I would be happy if someone could throw some light on this. As far as I know, you build it from a factory and then you have it until destroyed, just like any other terran unit. But is it redeployable or will it be stationary when deployed?
Yes. Think of the unit as a siege tank in... i don't know, how it 'acts'. It moves around, and then when you want to deploy it, you put it into whatever-mode. It doesn't move, and despite burrowing, it is not invisible.
Does browder seriously expect players to make warhounds vs zerg? with bonus vs MECH? fuck no, not gonna happen... warhounds will get focus fired and "magik-bawkzed" even harder than thors ever did!
They said the issue with the thor is that it's so expensive. Even in the lategame, terran generally has maybe 2 thors. The big problem with it is the size, so in lategame when your base is a huge maze for thors, they have a hard time protecting against mutas. It only takes 4 mutas to magic box a thor, and they come so late that zerg will have many mutas to kill them easily.
As always, Terran will need marines and turrets to complement the warhound, just like the thor. There's a reason that zerg doesn't just 'magik-bawkzed' thor everytime, and that was because of turrets and marines.
The warhound will be a much smaller, fast thor that can navigate your own base much easier. So when mutas attack the left side of your base, and your warhound is at the right, it'll be able to get there in time before the mutas destroy everything with no chance for the defender to do anything about it.
Also, warhound is much cheaper. Besides the size issue of the thor, another big problem is just how late in tech they are and how long they take to make. With the warhound, you can expect to have 1-2 of them in time for the first 6-10 mutas. As of now, as Terran, it's either sacrifice your 2-3 base push significantly in time and strength so you can get 1-2 thors to defend against a sudden flock of 14 mutas, or lose a ton in your base to mutas when you push. With the warhound, hopefully you can always get them quite early on on 2 base to meet the first mutas, while still being able to be active with your marines.
I don't understand why you think the warhound is so bad. It's just like the thor, except cheaper, faster, smaller. It will discourage mutas, but just like the thor it will be magic boxed if you have no marines or turrets around. It only takes 4 mutas to kill a thor now, and zerg certainly will magic box them any chance they get. The solution of the warhound is to come before that many mutas come out, and being magic boxed is a fault of the terran not having turrets/marines, not an abusive mechanic.
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On October 25 2011 03:47 Vundox wrote:
sorry i havent read all 364 pages but something that might have not been noted. on the HoTs multiplayer play testing, there was an upgrade in the hydralisk den that provided 50% bonus movement speed to hydras when off creep
You can be forgiven for not reading the massive thread, but that was noted in the OP...
EDIT: actually, only sort of. The fact that it's 50% and comes from the hydra den isn't explicitly stated. It's hive tech as well.
Is OP ever going to update the initial scrap changelog?
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On October 25 2011 10:04 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 01:22 Ghostcom wrote:On October 25 2011 01:18 Daralii wrote:On October 25 2011 01:14 Ghostcom wrote:
I've been wondering - has the shredder got a timelimit (i.e. energy that it uses)? And can it be redeployed or is it a 1-time use (either permanently in an area or until energy is used up)? From watching the videos it seems like it hasn't got a limit, but I would be happy if someone could throw some light on this. As far as I know, you build it from a factory and then you have it until destroyed, just like any other terran unit. But is it redeployable or will it be stationary when deployed? Yes. Think of the unit as a siege tank in... i don't know, how it 'acts'. It moves around, and then when you want to deploy it, you put it into whatever-mode. It doesn't move, and despite burrowing, it is not invisible. Show nested quote +Does browder seriously expect players to make warhounds vs zerg? with bonus vs MECH? fuck no, not gonna happen... warhounds will get focus fired and "magik-bawkzed" even harder than thors ever did! They said the issue with the thor is that it's so expensive. Even in the lategame, terran generally has maybe 2 thors. The big problem with it is the size, so in lategame when your base is a huge maze for thors, they have a hard time protecting against mutas. It only takes 4 mutas to magic box a thor, and they come so late that zerg will have many mutas to kill them easily. As always, Terran will need marines and turrets to complement the warhound, just like the thor. There's a reason that zerg doesn't just 'magik-bawkzed' thor everytime, and that was because of turrets and marines. The warhound will be a much smaller, fast thor that can navigate your own base much easier. So when mutas attack the left side of your base, and your warhound is at the right, it'll be able to get there in time before the mutas destroy everything with no chance for the defender to do anything about it. Also, warhound is much cheaper. Besides the size issue of the thor, another big problem is just how late in tech they are and how long they take to make. With the warhound, you can expect to have 1-2 of them in time for the first 6-10 mutas. As of now, as Terran, it's either sacrifice your 2-3 base push significantly in time and strength so you can get 1-2 thors to defend against a sudden flock of 14 mutas, or lose a ton in your base to mutas when you push. With the warhound, hopefully you can always get them quite early on on 2 base to meet the first mutas, while still being able to be active with your marines. I don't understand why you think the warhound is so bad. It's just like the thor, except cheaper, faster, smaller. It will discourage mutas, but just like the thor it will be magic boxed if you have no marines or turrets around. It only takes 4 mutas to kill a thor now, and zerg certainly will magic box them any chance they get. The solution of the warhound is to come before that many mutas come out, and being magic boxed is a fault of the terran not having turrets/marines, not an abusive mechanic.
The reason why i think the warhound is so bad, is because it lacks the power that the thor enabled for terran. THe thor was not simply decent vs mutalisks (when it had good luck) but it also was one of terran's more infamous units in the TvZ matchup as a strong pushing unit.
The warhound deals 10 +10 vs mech ground damage, i expect at similar speeds to the marauder which means that it will deal about 7 dps to zerg units (just like the ghost)... while it will have long range, it means that terran no longer have the thor as a strong timing based push unit which was one of the main benefits, if not incetives for thor play.
The warhound is like vikings vs protoss, they are decent as long as you make "just enough" to deal with mutalisks, but like vikings, just enough means:
having enough vikings to kill colossus, usually this means that the colossus will still kill significant amounts of your army because you wont have enough vikings to kill the colossus "fast enough" to protect your army, however, if terran has too many vikings then protoss can techswitch and vikings become more useless than hellions in straight up battles (please note how in HOTS battle hellions will own vikings on the ground!)
This situation applies to the warhound, not enough, and the you lose to mutas, too many and the mutas die, but you lose to everything else, and having "just right" which means your loses (which you will have) are manageable.
Thors with scv support and marines could kill small numbers of mutalisks as well as provide a strong support for pushes against zerg... i feel that the warhound and my stat based predictions:
150m 100g 3supply 260hp 7 +7vsmech DPS (4 +4light air attacks, unknown speed and missile count)
the warhound will be "conservative" in terms of stats, much how stalker damage, ground viking damage, and ghost damage is "conservative"... and therefor warhounds will simply NOT BE AS GOOD as the other HOTS units and will not be good enough to deal with the zerg threat.
I mean lets face it, blizzard let the Carrier sit and rust, and they've let the battlecruiser become infamous as one of the most cost inefficient insult units in the game? I would like to see the Battle Cruiser live up to its blizzard claim as being "strong vs mutalisks" but David Kim was so bold as to say: "we don't want this to be built in every match" dispite seeing ultralisks, broodlords, and colossus in nearly every match with enough time to reach that tech...
Another note on battle cruisers, its not good enough that pro players and regular players incorperate battle cruisers, but that battle cruisers contribute to wins... in nearly every Esports TvT i have seen recently, the player with the higher BC count loses... please correct if i am wrong.
Also, early after sc2 was released, BCs were a staple late game TvP unit in order to force void rays into late game deathball compositions, then BCs got a 20% ground damage nerf, and void rays got an unnecessary bonus vs massive units... what were they trying to fix with that? oh, carrier isn't used at all, but we don't want anyone to think about using it!!! give voidrays bonus vs Massive IN ADDITION to bonus vs armored!!!!
TL;DR Warhounds aren't going to be good enough, they will be a waste of resources and they will suck!
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The reason why i think the warhound is so bad, is because it lacks the power that the thor enabled for terran. THe thor was not simply decent vs mutalisks (when it had good luck) but it also was one of terran's more infamous units in the TvZ matchup as a strong pushing unit.
I don't know what level you play at, or you think TvZ is all mech, but it was not a strong pushing unit. Beside niche builds like Thor/Hellion (which is bad, it's just how mech is now opened in TvZ into later mass siege tanks), it's not a strong pushing unit, it's just used to cover large ground when marines are too spread out to protect your spread out siege tanks.
The warhound makes up in slightly less range of the thor with much higher mobility and cheaper cost. Just like the thor, it is splash damage, so despite killing mutas in, i don't know, 8 shots instead of 4, you still NEVER want to be hit with splash as a zerg player with mutas, just like protoss never wants an EMP to go off in a clump of their units, even if it was weaker.
Maybe you don't understand the dynamics of mutalisks, but Zerg wishes for them to be clumped so they can better engage marines by 'picking' at the edges, particularly against siege tanks even when marines are present, and to harass by getting 'in between' turrets to sweet nuggets of reactors and depots and tech labs. If zerg was unable to stack their mutas into clumps, the DPS per area of the harass becomes much weaker. If you watch muta harass in both BW and SC2, you'll notice pros always clump up their mutas to harass better.
The presence of aoe makes it so zerg can't clump up. While the war hound might be weak, forcing mutas to not clump up is even stronger. Even if the aoe damage is just 10 of the warhound, 10 damage on every single mutalisk, say 20 mutalisks, means 2000 damage. Means suddenly, zerg can't engage small groups of marines with the mutas (like in Nestea vs MVP, we saw his 10 mutas that just got hurt by a thor shot all die to a single dropship of marines that he actually caught before it started dropping).
Zerg has no mechanical units, so the warhound won't be used against Zerg because of it's ground attack. Just like the thor is never used against Zerg for it's ground attack either.
David Kim said the warhound will be strong against everything protoss except the zealot (to which the new hellion fucks up). They definitely made it clear this is a balance challenge.
This situation applies to the warhound, not enough, and the you lose to mutas, too many and the mutas die, but you lose to everything else, and having "just right" which means your loses (which you will have) are manageable.
Not really. Terran just needs to have a single thor with their army to have enough. The problem is that due to it's immobility, terran needed to have at least 1 thor per base. With the new, cheaper, fast warhound, terran can just have 1 more faster, mobile, cheaper warhound at each base.
While it may be a bit weaker, mutas never were discouraged by the thor due to the thor itself. You seem to not realize FOUR MUTAS BEAT A THOR. The issue is that a single thor forces mutas to not clump up. Which means a group of 20 mutas vs 1 turret suddenly becomes 5 mutas vs 1 turret, 4 times, since they have to fan out.
There's a reason why mass muta beats mass thor, or why mass muta owns mech.
Another note on battle cruisers, its not good enough that pro players and regular players incorperate battle cruisers, but that battle cruisers contribute to wins... in nearly every Esports TvT i have seen recently, the player with the higher BC count loses... please correct if i am wrong.
I will correct you because you are wrong - it's the person with the higher viking count that wins, not BC count. There were actually a few games such as MVP vs MMA where despite MVP having many more BCs, MMA won for having about 6 more vikings. By having more vikings, you can get BCs, which means you can wreck siege tank lines. The core of TvT is siege tanks. By winning the air battle, you can push the siege tanks back, and win.
Also, early after sc2 was released, BCs were a staple late game TvP unit in order to force void rays into late game deathball compositions, then BCs got a 20% ground damage nerf, and void rays got an unnecessary bonus vs massive units... what were they trying to fix with that? oh, carrier isn't used at all, but we don't want anyone to think about using it!!! give voidrays bonus vs Massive IN ADDITION to bonus vs armored!!!!
No they weren't. Void Ray buff was to fix PvP from being mass colossus. They kept it because it at least helped with VR vs Thor and VR vs BL. Void Rays were never an issue in TvP.
TL;DR Warhounds aren't going to be good enough, they will be a waste of resources and they will suck!
I don't know what league you are in, but you are wrong.
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Uh isn't the warhound the same kind of role as the goliath in broodwar? Don't you face that exact same composition war in that game as well?
Tank > Hydra > Goliath > Muta > Tank? Now it's just a more complicated version of that, isn't it?
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I wonder if they will allow you to use the viper to pull friendly or allied units.
Using broodlords against a marine line and getting tierd of the marines stimming up and running under them... Its ok I'll keep pulling them back... Of course we don't know (or at least I don't) their current energy mineral gas and supply costs but it seems like it would work.
Or say in tz v xx you could have allied vipors pulling tanks back when enemy units approach them would be kind of cool. Don't play team games often but every now and then they are kind of fun to play.
On October 22 2011 01:16 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
lmfao it actually was a transformer hellion....
Transformers Hellions in disguise
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Uh isn't the warhound the same kind of role as the goliath in broodwar? Don't you face that exact same composition war in that game as well?
Tank > Hydra > Goliath > Muta > Tank? Now it's just a more complicated version of that, isn't it?
Yes. In the development of WOL they specifically said that the goliath was needed, but if they put it in the game, then the thor would become useless. They gave the thor huge range and splash against air, and hoped it would fill the role.
With the direction of the warhound and Hots, it seems they think the Thor failed. I would agree. You just need a goliath.
It's a coincidence that units end up the same as BW, but they are making units out of need, not out of any respect to BW.
I wonder if they will allow you to use the viper to pull friendly or allied units.
Yes, you can, just like graviton beam, although it's more practical to pull friendly units to save them than it is to do it with graviton beam. It's an explicit use of Abduct.
It costs 100 energy. Extremely expensive. With the very useful Blinding Cloud, you can't exactly just keep Abducting, say, your own broodlords, over and over, even if you have 10+. Believe me, I tried. They aren't exactly infestors, they don't have a damaging attack or spell like FG or IT.
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I hope hydras get their attack design back from BM too... Spit is way better than needles.
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Most of these units are still in the design phase so you can't make a judgement as to their effectiveness. They can be changed and changed again before release.
I kinda think the "Warhound" looks dumb. This is a video game, there's no reason not to have units look good. Redesign the look.
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should put a poll if we like the new ladder maps as well
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On October 25 2011 06:33 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 06:30 The KY wrote:On October 25 2011 05:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 25 2011 05:39 The KY wrote:On October 25 2011 05:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 25 2011 04:21 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On October 25 2011 03:37 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 22 2011 23:37 Alpina wrote:On October 22 2011 23:30 sleepingdog wrote:
The nexus recall could most definitely be game-changing in PvZ - HuK is going to love it. You can move out and pressure with the potential to straight up kill greedy zergs, without having to be afraid to get overwhelmed and just...well...lose right there.
Oracle and replicant are cool and cute, but this recall ability could change so much more, the whole flow of the game. It's going to be stupid because protoss are never going to lose battles. Is they winning a battle, then everything is fine, and if they see they are losing they can just mass recall to town. I can't imagine such ability going into release, cause you won't ever see normal battles where zerg or terran is winning, just nonsense. You're assuming that Protoss is going to have 75 energy lying around, and you're neglecting the fact that the Recalled army has a cooldown on their movement... when they're Recalled, they're frozen. The Protoss can still be harrassed or attacked at the front door during this time. It's merely a way to make the Protoss a bit more mobile, because they're insanely immobile compared to Zerg and Terran. Yes you will, since you know, you'd stop at 60~70 probes like normal players which happens around your 3rd base at around 12th minute plus. Wow. You've apparently never played Protoss before. We're allowed to chrono boost other structures besides the nexus lol. And we do that all the time. Warpgate tech, forge upgrades, warpgate cooldown, other upgrades (storm, charge, blink, etc.), robo and stargate units, etc. In fact, up until now, Protoss players were supposed to keep their energy as low as possible throughout the entire game. I don't see what the issue is; the guy is right. It's impossible to keep 3/4 nexuses (nexi?) at close to zero energy when you're nearing maxed - there just aren't that many things to chronoboost. And besides, even when not maxed it's not like chrono is being constantly used on production structures because resources are still limiting. Late game protoss is very, very often going to have 75 energy lying around. Like...I don't see that as arguable. They do now and they will in the future. I don't agree that it'll be 'stupid' though. But it's potentially powerful, and potentially a pretty big buff. Browder even said that the nexus's Recall option should allow for a bit more mobility and harrassment early on if the Protoss wants to exchange it for chrono boost (pointing out that normally your stalkers and zealots can retreat if you're outnumbered but your sentries get picked off, since they're slower). He had hoped that this will allow Protoss to be more aggressive earlier. The late late game is barely changed with this (it's not much different than having a mothership to Recall home if you're in trouble). It would be really nice to be able to be aggressive earlier on without worried about getting surrounded by speedlings or stimmed units. But if it's late late game and your army is going to get crushed, it doesn't really matter where on the map it is, since their army is just going to go kill you. So you don't have to research it? How odd. And quite apart from resources, the difference from the mothership is that, well, almost no one gets motherships. And I wouldn't agree at all that relocating your whole army makes no difference if you're losing battle. It can buy you a round of gateway units. It can get you out of a really bad position. The nexus's MR has a significantly smaller radius than the mothership's MR, so I'm not too concerned. In the demo, it was about a hex wider than a colossus.
Now I'm even more mad that they removed the Motherhship.
FFS just keep the carrier/MS Blizzard...tweak it as necessary. People don't use hydras, you give a well deserved speed upgrade. People don't use carriers, you remove them without even trying?
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Happy Blizzard is giving more viable options in the factory. Making the Hellion more versatile and replacing the Thor with a Goliath is a big plus. Thank you Blizzard.
I can't be the only person sick of bio.
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AWESOME awesome Awesome SO cool!!!
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On October 25 2011 13:12 mlspmatt wrote:
Most of these units are still in the design phase so you can't make a judgement as to their effectiveness. They can be changed and changed again before release.
I kinda think the "Warhound" looks dumb. This is a video game, there's no reason not to have units look good. Redesign the look.
I thought the same thing when I played it. The unit's art just seems out of place.
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Yes, you can pull any unit towards the viper. Think force pull.
BL/Swarm host/spine crawlers/corruptor will be a typical late game Zerg death ball.
That's 16 locusts of 90 HP and 16 dps (mini zealot) every 15s w just 8 SH.
Add another 8 SH between spawns then it'll be 16 locusts ever 7.5s.
Or make them burrow together to produce 32 locusts.
Locusts don't cost supply.
Now that's scary.
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On October 25 2011 13:36 RavenLoud wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 06:33 Daralii wrote:On October 25 2011 06:30 The KY wrote:On October 25 2011 05:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 25 2011 05:39 The KY wrote:On October 25 2011 05:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 25 2011 04:21 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On October 25 2011 03:37 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 22 2011 23:37 Alpina wrote:On October 22 2011 23:30 sleepingdog wrote:
The nexus recall could most definitely be game-changing in PvZ - HuK is going to love it. You can move out and pressure with the potential to straight up kill greedy zergs, without having to be afraid to get overwhelmed and just...well...lose right there.
Oracle and replicant are cool and cute, but this recall ability could change so much more, the whole flow of the game. It's going to be stupid because protoss are never going to lose battles. Is they winning a battle, then everything is fine, and if they see they are losing they can just mass recall to town. I can't imagine such ability going into release, cause you won't ever see normal battles where zerg or terran is winning, just nonsense. You're assuming that Protoss is going to have 75 energy lying around, and you're neglecting the fact that the Recalled army has a cooldown on their movement... when they're Recalled, they're frozen. The Protoss can still be harrassed or attacked at the front door during this time. It's merely a way to make the Protoss a bit more mobile, because they're insanely immobile compared to Zerg and Terran. Yes you will, since you know, you'd stop at 60~70 probes like normal players which happens around your 3rd base at around 12th minute plus. Wow. You've apparently never played Protoss before. We're allowed to chrono boost other structures besides the nexus lol. And we do that all the time. Warpgate tech, forge upgrades, warpgate cooldown, other upgrades (storm, charge, blink, etc.), robo and stargate units, etc. In fact, up until now, Protoss players were supposed to keep their energy as low as possible throughout the entire game. I don't see what the issue is; the guy is right. It's impossible to keep 3/4 nexuses (nexi?) at close to zero energy when you're nearing maxed - there just aren't that many things to chronoboost. And besides, even when not maxed it's not like chrono is being constantly used on production structures because resources are still limiting. Late game protoss is very, very often going to have 75 energy lying around. Like...I don't see that as arguable. They do now and they will in the future. I don't agree that it'll be 'stupid' though. But it's potentially powerful, and potentially a pretty big buff. Browder even said that the nexus's Recall option should allow for a bit more mobility and harrassment early on if the Protoss wants to exchange it for chrono boost (pointing out that normally your stalkers and zealots can retreat if you're outnumbered but your sentries get picked off, since they're slower). He had hoped that this will allow Protoss to be more aggressive earlier. The late late game is barely changed with this (it's not much different than having a mothership to Recall home if you're in trouble). It would be really nice to be able to be aggressive earlier on without worried about getting surrounded by speedlings or stimmed units. But if it's late late game and your army is going to get crushed, it doesn't really matter where on the map it is, since their army is just going to go kill you. So you don't have to research it? How odd. And quite apart from resources, the difference from the mothership is that, well, almost no one gets motherships. And I wouldn't agree at all that relocating your whole army makes no difference if you're losing battle. It can buy you a round of gateway units. It can get you out of a really bad position. The nexus's MR has a significantly smaller radius than the mothership's MR, so I'm not too concerned. In the demo, it was about a hex wider than a colossus. Now I'm even more mad that they removed the Motherhship. FFS just keep the carrier/MS Blizzard...tweak it as necessary. People don't use hydras, you give a well deserved speed upgrade. People don't use carriers, you remove them without even trying?
I can assure you, you won't miss the mothership when you play the new units.
The carrier is not bad because of stats. It's because it's only good at killing mass siege tanks. When Terran starts going mass siege tank in TvP lategame, you'll see carriers again.
The mothership isn't an issue of stats either. It's not that it's a bad unit, per se, it's that it fails to both pro players and lower level players.
The MS was made to appleal to low level players. But the cloak field means it's a high priority target so it always dies right away. It's usage comes in it's spells, which is hard for low level players to utilize. For high level players, it simply comes too late in the game to make an impact and is way too vulnerable.
The new thor has an aoe damage spell, but is very 'a move friendly' as they put it. You don't need to cast it's spell for it to rip stuff up, it's large, strong, and attacks easily. It feels strong. It isn't a particularly high priority target compared to other units present, but it is definitely a tank. Pro players won't use it (600/400 cost, fusion core and armory required) but low level players will appreciate it.
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honestly speaking, i think that the protoss has the disadvantage here in the terms of new units. They are all tier 3 units and don't have that big of an advantage when it comes down to it. Yes they will have air dominance but keep in mind when the hydralisk speed is up and running along with the new anti-colossus unit that would disable them quickly, i dont think that the air units stand a chance at all. Aside from that note, with the new dark swarm, banelings would become super effective against the other 2 races. But what concerns me is the new hellions. Why does the hellion need to be that powerful without using any gas whatsoever? and the shredder being that effective will strongly be a race for the zerg to just get mass bane/ling/ultra and then top it off with their new caster to make it ridiculous for a new deathball. Destiny would be having a field day with the fungal/dark swarm combo to keep enemies in place. On another note, terran needs to take the planetary fortress out or at least make them do less damage because they will not die... Btw, have you noticed that the protoss and the terran units were based on the mutalisk problem? soooooo yea i dont think mutalisks will be made at all at hots
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
I have ultimately scrapped SC2 because the unit choices in this game are not geared towards spectator value. The game doesn't look well enough for a spectator compared to SC1 and was hoping for HotS to mitigate this. So here are the changes I get:
Zerg:
- New caster unit that is basically centered around spectator value, wow-factor and turning around fight with clever ability use.
- New siege unit that has a refreshing mechanic and good spectator value.
- Unit that had zero to none spectator value scrapped.
Summary:
Unsuprisingly, people in the poll are enjoying new zerg units. They may be imbalanced, they may be not that good from game design standpoint, but they will make zerg games exciting to watch.
Protoss:
- Carrier which was the epitome of protoss army look, scrapped.
- Mothership which, while gimmicky, produced some really really spectacular fights, scrapped. (Not that I disapprove, I wanted the mothership gone from the first day, but the point still stands).
- Introduced a replacement for carrier which not only looks like shit design-wise, but is also completely uninteresting ball-of-death type unit.
- Introduced a super-gimmicky unit which won't make it into release anyway, but could theoretically produce some hillarity in 1 of 100000 games.
- Introduced a flying saucer that does not do any damage but is very micro-heavy and can do some fun shit done.
Summary:
Blizzard are removing what makes protoss protoss. Noone with SC background is going to enjoy the carrier scrap, but the most painful thing is the replacement. Plain AoE periodical attacks just don't have the feel of a capital ship and they look unfun. Replacing mothership with an utility caster is a better than average decision, since it's designed to be accessible and that is what "megaunits" lack.
Terran:
- Added a unit that goes around and autoattacks. Even though we all know it's a Goliath, they prefer to not call it a Goliath and make it look worse. Terrible addition from the spectator standpoints.
- Added a firebat that transforms from a Hellion. Now firebats are known for some fun moments in SC, but these one lack speed. Furthermore, for some strange reason it is not called a Firebat.
- Added a base defense mechanic that looks fun from the first glance but as you look into it more it's only purpose is to defend choked expansions against zergling rambo action. It can't be placed in a mineral line so any unit that can just ignore it and run directly to the workers (zealots) is not affected. Ranged units are essentially immune to the effect. Nice, but I doubt it will make it into the game in it's current shape.
- Made a step towards scrapping Thor entirely in Legacy of the Void. Now, after all these years, Browder still doesn't realize that "megaunits" are a terrible concept in a game like SC. However, they are moving towards the removal of the thor, so I like it.
Summary:
Terran unit additions are terrible. Not only they are essentially refined concepts from SC and WoL single-player campaigns (Goliath and Firebat), but they also won't improve the spectator value. Sure, they want to add more options to mech. But maybe, maybe in Legacy of the Void it will finally be clear that mobility costs money and when Bio armies get it for free (since medivac provide them alot of power) they will always be prevalent on all but the most plain and simple maps.
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On October 22 2011 08:54 Iyerbeth wrote:
On the note of bunkers, couldn't 2v2 partners now build bunkers, drain them for minerals and then salvage on low hp to actually generate additional minerals?
Or a 1v1 Zerg with an SCV and a Rax but with not enough minerals for a Hatchery after a fight (unlikely I admit) be able to produce bunkers and then consume them with corruptors, salvage and repeat?
in 2v2's have him repair you get 1 min per health and i think that is more than the cost of repair unlimited minerals
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EPT
