On October 22 2011 23:30 sleepingdog wrote: The nexus recall could most definitely be game-changing in PvZ - HuK is going to love it. You can move out and pressure with the potential to straight up kill greedy zergs, without having to be afraid to get overwhelmed and just...well...lose right there.
Oracle and replicant are cool and cute, but this recall ability could change so much more, the whole flow of the game.
It's going to be stupid because protoss are never going to lose battles. Is they winning a battle, then everything is fine, and if they see they are losing they can just mass recall to town. I can't imagine such ability going into release, cause you won't ever see normal battles where zerg or terran is winning, just nonsense.
You're assuming that Protoss is going to have 75 energy lying around, and you're neglecting the fact that the Recalled army has a cooldown on their movement... when they're Recalled, they're frozen. The Protoss can still be harrassed or attacked at the front door during this time. It's merely a way to make the Protoss a bit more mobile, because they're insanely immobile compared to Zerg and Terran.
Yes you will, since you know, you'd stop at 60~70 probes like normal players which happens around your 3rd base at around 12th minute plus.
On October 25 2011 04:21 udgnim wrote: did anyone ask Blizzard about the movable rocks shown in the HotS trailer or is it just a troll job by Blizzard?
On October 22 2011 23:30 sleepingdog wrote: The nexus recall could most definitely be game-changing in PvZ - HuK is going to love it. You can move out and pressure with the potential to straight up kill greedy zergs, without having to be afraid to get overwhelmed and just...well...lose right there.
Oracle and replicant are cool and cute, but this recall ability could change so much more, the whole flow of the game.
It's going to be stupid because protoss are never going to lose battles. Is they winning a battle, then everything is fine, and if they see they are losing they can just mass recall to town. I can't imagine such ability going into release, cause you won't ever see normal battles where zerg or terran is winning, just nonsense.
You're assuming that Protoss is going to have 75 energy lying around, and you're neglecting the fact that the Recalled army has a cooldown on their movement... when they're Recalled, they're frozen. The Protoss can still be harrassed or attacked at the front door during this time. It's merely a way to make the Protoss a bit more mobile, because they're insanely immobile compared to Zerg and Terran.
Yes you will, since you know, you'd stop at 60~70 probes like normal players which happens around your 3rd base at around 12th minute plus.
Wow.
You've apparently never played Protoss before.
We're allowed to chrono boost other structures besides the nexus lol. And we do that all the time.
Warpgate tech, forge upgrades, warpgate cooldown, other upgrades (storm, charge, blink, etc.), robo and stargate units, etc.
In fact, up until now, Protoss players were supposed to keep their energy as low as possible throughout the entire game.
On October 22 2011 23:30 sleepingdog wrote: The nexus recall could most definitely be game-changing in PvZ - HuK is going to love it. You can move out and pressure with the potential to straight up kill greedy zergs, without having to be afraid to get overwhelmed and just...well...lose right there.
Oracle and replicant are cool and cute, but this recall ability could change so much more, the whole flow of the game.
It's going to be stupid because protoss are never going to lose battles. Is they winning a battle, then everything is fine, and if they see they are losing they can just mass recall to town. I can't imagine such ability going into release, cause you won't ever see normal battles where zerg or terran is winning, just nonsense.
You're assuming that Protoss is going to have 75 energy lying around, and you're neglecting the fact that the Recalled army has a cooldown on their movement... when they're Recalled, they're frozen. The Protoss can still be harrassed or attacked at the front door during this time. It's merely a way to make the Protoss a bit more mobile, because they're insanely immobile compared to Zerg and Terran.
Yes you will, since you know, you'd stop at 60~70 probes like normal players which happens around your 3rd base at around 12th minute plus.
Wow.
You've apparently never played Protoss before.
We're allowed to chrono boost other structures besides the nexus lol. And we do that all the time.
Warpgate tech, forge upgrades, warpgate cooldown, other upgrades (storm, charge, blink, etc.), robo and stargate units, etc.
In fact, up until now, Protoss players were supposed to keep their energy as low as possible throughout the entire game.
I don't see what the issue is; the guy is right. It's impossible to keep 3/4 nexuses (nexi?) at close to zero energy when you're nearing maxed - there just aren't that many things to chronoboost. And besides, even when not maxed it's not like chrono is being constantly used on production structures because resources are still limiting. Late game protoss is very, very often going to have 75 energy lying around. Like...I don't see that as arguable. They do now and they will in the future.
I don't agree that it'll be 'stupid' though. But it's potentially powerful, and potentially a pretty big buff.
On October 25 2011 04:21 udgnim wrote: did anyone ask Blizzard about the movable rocks shown in the HotS trailer or is it just a troll job by Blizzard?
I think the recall buff will be really good and has a good use for APM and chrono decision. The oracle im thinking is having more and more use. To be able to block production will be really nice and stop your own buildings from being hurt (I think thats right?)
On October 22 2011 23:30 sleepingdog wrote: The nexus recall could most definitely be game-changing in PvZ - HuK is going to love it. You can move out and pressure with the potential to straight up kill greedy zergs, without having to be afraid to get overwhelmed and just...well...lose right there.
Oracle and replicant are cool and cute, but this recall ability could change so much more, the whole flow of the game.
It's going to be stupid because protoss are never going to lose battles. Is they winning a battle, then everything is fine, and if they see they are losing they can just mass recall to town. I can't imagine such ability going into release, cause you won't ever see normal battles where zerg or terran is winning, just nonsense.
You're assuming that Protoss is going to have 75 energy lying around, and you're neglecting the fact that the Recalled army has a cooldown on their movement... when they're Recalled, they're frozen. The Protoss can still be harrassed or attacked at the front door during this time. It's merely a way to make the Protoss a bit more mobile, because they're insanely immobile compared to Zerg and Terran.
Yes you will, since you know, you'd stop at 60~70 probes like normal players which happens around your 3rd base at around 12th minute plus.
Wow.
You've apparently never played Protoss before.
We're allowed to chrono boost other structures besides the nexus lol. And we do that all the time.
Warpgate tech, forge upgrades, warpgate cooldown, other upgrades (storm, charge, blink, etc.), robo and stargate units, etc.
In fact, up until now, Protoss players were supposed to keep their energy as low as possible throughout the entire game.
I don't see what the issue is; the guy is right. It's impossible to keep 3/4 nexuses (nexi?) at close to zero energy when you're nearing maxed - there just aren't that many things to chronoboost. And besides, even when not maxed it's not like chrono is being constantly used on production structures because resources are still limiting. Late game protoss is very, very often going to have 75 energy lying around. Like...I don't see that as arguable. They do now and they will in the future.
I don't agree that it'll be 'stupid' though. But it's potentially powerful, and potentially a pretty big buff.
Browder even said that the nexus's Recall option should allow for a bit more mobility and harrassment early on if the Protoss wants to exchange it for chrono boost (pointing out that normally your stalkers and zealots can retreat if you're outnumbered but your sentries get picked off, since they're slower). He had hoped that this will allow Protoss to be more aggressive earlier.
The late late game is barely changed with this (it's not much different than having a mothership to Recall home if you're in trouble). It would be really nice to be able to be aggressive earlier on without worried about getting surrounded by speedlings or stimmed units. But if it's late late game and your army is going to get crushed, it doesn't really matter where on the map it is, since their army is just going to go kill you.
On October 22 2011 23:30 sleepingdog wrote: The nexus recall could most definitely be game-changing in PvZ - HuK is going to love it. You can move out and pressure with the potential to straight up kill greedy zergs, without having to be afraid to get overwhelmed and just...well...lose right there.
Oracle and replicant are cool and cute, but this recall ability could change so much more, the whole flow of the game.
It's going to be stupid because protoss are never going to lose battles. Is they winning a battle, then everything is fine, and if they see they are losing they can just mass recall to town. I can't imagine such ability going into release, cause you won't ever see normal battles where zerg or terran is winning, just nonsense.
You're assuming that Protoss is going to have 75 energy lying around, and you're neglecting the fact that the Recalled army has a cooldown on their movement... when they're Recalled, they're frozen. The Protoss can still be harrassed or attacked at the front door during this time. It's merely a way to make the Protoss a bit more mobile, because they're insanely immobile compared to Zerg and Terran.
Yes you will, since you know, you'd stop at 60~70 probes like normal players which happens around your 3rd base at around 12th minute plus.
Wow.
You've apparently never played Protoss before.
We're allowed to chrono boost other structures besides the nexus lol. And we do that all the time.
Warpgate tech, forge upgrades, warpgate cooldown, other upgrades (storm, charge, blink, etc.), robo and stargate units, etc.
In fact, up until now, Protoss players were supposed to keep their energy as low as possible throughout the entire game.
I don't see what the issue is; the guy is right. It's impossible to keep 3/4 nexuses (nexi?) at close to zero energy when you're nearing maxed - there just aren't that many things to chronoboost. And besides, even when not maxed it's not like chrono is being constantly used on production structures because resources are still limiting. Late game protoss is very, very often going to have 75 energy lying around. Like...I don't see that as arguable. They do now and they will in the future.
I don't agree that it'll be 'stupid' though. But it's potentially powerful, and potentially a pretty big buff.
Browder even said that the nexus's Recall option should allow for a bit more mobility and harrassment early on if the Protoss wants to exchange it for chrono boost (pointing out that normally your stalkers and zealots can retreat if you're outnumbered but your sentries get picked off, since they're slower). He had hoped that this will allow Protoss to be more aggressive earlier.
The late late game is barely changed with this (it's not much different than having a mothership to Recall home if you're in trouble). It would be really nice to be able to be aggressive earlier on without worried about getting surrounded by speedlings or stimmed units. But if it's late late game and your army is going to get crushed, it doesn't really matter where on the map it is, since their army is just going to go kill you.
So you don't have to research it? How odd. And quite apart from resources, the difference from the mothership is that, well, almost no one gets motherships.
And I wouldn't agree at all that relocating your whole army makes no difference if you're losing battle. It can buy you a round of gateway units. It can get you out of a really bad position.
On October 25 2011 06:17 Blasterion wrote: yes the shredder hits both axis
Thought so.
Goodbye mutalisks.
Meh, I don't see that it'll affect mutas. They have to be away from friendly units, and air units can just...go...around. You'd have to be incredibly careless to fly a muta flock through one of those.
On October 22 2011 23:30 sleepingdog wrote: The nexus recall could most definitely be game-changing in PvZ - HuK is going to love it. You can move out and pressure with the potential to straight up kill greedy zergs, without having to be afraid to get overwhelmed and just...well...lose right there.
Oracle and replicant are cool and cute, but this recall ability could change so much more, the whole flow of the game.
It's going to be stupid because protoss are never going to lose battles. Is they winning a battle, then everything is fine, and if they see they are losing they can just mass recall to town. I can't imagine such ability going into release, cause you won't ever see normal battles where zerg or terran is winning, just nonsense.
You're assuming that Protoss is going to have 75 energy lying around, and you're neglecting the fact that the Recalled army has a cooldown on their movement... when they're Recalled, they're frozen. The Protoss can still be harrassed or attacked at the front door during this time. It's merely a way to make the Protoss a bit more mobile, because they're insanely immobile compared to Zerg and Terran.
Yes you will, since you know, you'd stop at 60~70 probes like normal players which happens around your 3rd base at around 12th minute plus.
Wow.
You've apparently never played Protoss before.
We're allowed to chrono boost other structures besides the nexus lol. And we do that all the time.
Warpgate tech, forge upgrades, warpgate cooldown, other upgrades (storm, charge, blink, etc.), robo and stargate units, etc.
In fact, up until now, Protoss players were supposed to keep their energy as low as possible throughout the entire game.
I don't see what the issue is; the guy is right. It's impossible to keep 3/4 nexuses (nexi?) at close to zero energy when you're nearing maxed - there just aren't that many things to chronoboost. And besides, even when not maxed it's not like chrono is being constantly used on production structures because resources are still limiting. Late game protoss is very, very often going to have 75 energy lying around. Like...I don't see that as arguable. They do now and they will in the future.
I don't agree that it'll be 'stupid' though. But it's potentially powerful, and potentially a pretty big buff.
Browder even said that the nexus's Recall option should allow for a bit more mobility and harrassment early on if the Protoss wants to exchange it for chrono boost (pointing out that normally your stalkers and zealots can retreat if you're outnumbered but your sentries get picked off, since they're slower). He had hoped that this will allow Protoss to be more aggressive earlier.
The late late game is barely changed with this (it's not much different than having a mothership to Recall home if you're in trouble). It would be really nice to be able to be aggressive earlier on without worried about getting surrounded by speedlings or stimmed units. But if it's late late game and your army is going to get crushed, it doesn't really matter where on the map it is, since their army is just going to go kill you.
So you don't have to research it? How odd. And quite apart from resources, the difference from the mothership is that, well, almost no one gets motherships.
And I wouldn't agree at all that relocating your whole army makes no difference if you're losing battle. It can buy you a round of gateway units. It can get you out of a really bad position.
The nexus's MR has a significantly smaller radius than the mothership's MR, so I'm not too concerned. In the demo, it was about a hex wider than a colossus.
On October 25 2011 06:17 Blasterion wrote: yes the shredder hits both axis
Thought so.
Goodbye mutalisks.
Meh, I don't see that it'll affect mutas. They have to be away from friendly units, and air units can just...go...around. You'd have to be incredibly careless to fly a muta flock through one of those.
my question is do they remain active in the range of a building, like missile turrets
On October 22 2011 23:30 sleepingdog wrote: The nexus recall could most definitely be game-changing in PvZ - HuK is going to love it. You can move out and pressure with the potential to straight up kill greedy zergs, without having to be afraid to get overwhelmed and just...well...lose right there.
Oracle and replicant are cool and cute, but this recall ability could change so much more, the whole flow of the game.
It's going to be stupid because protoss are never going to lose battles. Is they winning a battle, then everything is fine, and if they see they are losing they can just mass recall to town. I can't imagine such ability going into release, cause you won't ever see normal battles where zerg or terran is winning, just nonsense.
You're assuming that Protoss is going to have 75 energy lying around, and you're neglecting the fact that the Recalled army has a cooldown on their movement... when they're Recalled, they're frozen. The Protoss can still be harrassed or attacked at the front door during this time. It's merely a way to make the Protoss a bit more mobile, because they're insanely immobile compared to Zerg and Terran.
Yes you will, since you know, you'd stop at 60~70 probes like normal players which happens around your 3rd base at around 12th minute plus.
Wow.
You've apparently never played Protoss before.
We're allowed to chrono boost other structures besides the nexus lol. And we do that all the time.
Warpgate tech, forge upgrades, warpgate cooldown, other upgrades (storm, charge, blink, etc.), robo and stargate units, etc.
In fact, up until now, Protoss players were supposed to keep their energy as low as possible throughout the entire game.
I don't see what the issue is; the guy is right. It's impossible to keep 3/4 nexuses (nexi?) at close to zero energy when you're nearing maxed - there just aren't that many things to chronoboost. And besides, even when not maxed it's not like chrono is being constantly used on production structures because resources are still limiting. Late game protoss is very, very often going to have 75 energy lying around. Like...I don't see that as arguable. They do now and they will in the future.
I don't agree that it'll be 'stupid' though. But it's potentially powerful, and potentially a pretty big buff.
This is correct but contrary to what the above poster believes good Protoss players don't have like 5 nexi full of energy so they "never going to lose battles"! Also the radius is pretty small. the main uses will be to defend to a drop and to send a task force to snipe an expand and recall it back, i cannot see how you could recall your entire army with it.
On October 25 2011 06:17 Blasterion wrote: yes the shredder hits both axis
Thought so.
Goodbye mutalisks.
Meh, I don't see that it'll affect mutas. They have to be away from friendly units, and air units can just...go...around. You'd have to be incredibly careless to fly a muta flock through one of those.
My guess is that it will see a similar change to spider mines in the first game so that worker units don't take damage / activate / deactivate the field... in SC1 spider mines didn't attack units that "hovered" which was all workers + vulture bikes + archons... surprisingly, spider mines were the go to map control option vs protoss, with some use against terran and zerg (bio was still preferable to zerg)
I predict players will be able to repair shredders while the field is active, and that players can deploy shredders around their mineral field to protect from harass. Does browder seriously expect players to make warhounds vs zerg? with bonus vs MECH? fuck no, not gonna happen... warhounds will get focus fired and "magik-bawkzed" even harder than thors ever did!
EPT
