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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45009 Posts
On October 25 2011 00:37 GuiRao wrote: Chronobust probes balances the terran mules. There are people who still believe this? Maybe if a Protoss and a Terran play in a vacuum for the first ten minutes of the game, but not in a normal game of StarCraft where other things happen... and certainly not if you watch 99% of PvTs. | ||
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SzaszaG
Hungary120 Posts
On October 25 2011 00:36 Yaotzin wrote: FFE with constant worker chronos keeps up with 3hatch in worker count. Come on ! Even MC could build only 55 Workers for 10 min with Forge FE, while I've seen NesTea on 60 Workers at 8 min LoL... At least Protoss should have something to harras Drones instead of Suicidal DT or Phoenix Techs... =/ | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
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Cofo
United States1388 Posts
On October 25 2011 00:20 Belial88 wrote: To People who were at Blizzcon How many of you guys went 13gate/14gas (ie normal opening), put a pylon on the low ground of your friends base (or in his base lol), then put a much more forward pylon and when it was building, "arc'd" the lower pylon until the next pylon was up.... Because my friend was REALLY pissed to find out that pylons are now cannons. He said "NR10". The BOSS cannon rush is going to be a million times worse now too. Now no matter what build protoss does, it's a potential cannon rush. I can almost guarantee they'll change this by beta/release. I could see them making it not castable on assimilators or pylons. Either that as a research, which I think is less likely considering the point of arc shield is early early defense (like 6 pool/proxy rax early). | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On October 25 2011 00:44 SzaszaG wrote: Come on ! Even MC could build only 55 Workers for 10 min with Forge FE, while I've seen NesTea on 60 Workers at 8 min LoL... At least Protoss should have something to harras Drones instead of Suicidal DT or Phoenix Techs... =/ Dunno I've seen MC roughly keep up with Idra, Sen etc..good macro players. At ~60 the Zerg massively pulls ahead, but Protoss shouldn't be making more workers then anyway because they have to secure their 3rd first. And then it's all about the gassssss. | ||
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GuiRao
Spain29 Posts
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On October 25 2011 00:47 infinity2k9 wrote: What is the Shredder for anyway? Who thought 'hm Terran really needs more defensive options'. Obviously yes you can shut them down and i'm not even suggesting they are overpowered; just on one hand they say Terran is flexible enough already then they add units which greatly extend their flexibility both offensively and defensively. zoning and map control | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On October 25 2011 00:16 Hassybaby wrote: No, just mechanical units. Its like how the roach does extra damage vs bio You mean the Archon. Roach do 18 damage to everything, no bonus to anything. | ||
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SzaszaG
Hungary120 Posts
But Larva Injects Definitely should be Delayed some seconds or make 4 Larvas instead of 5 imo... | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On October 25 2011 00:58 SzaszaG wrote: PvT Macro maybe balanced, cause Terran gets 1 MULE = 6 Workers (temporary) / 50 Energy = 100sec = ~2min, that conpensates the ~3 Worker / min that usually cannot mine cause of Building. But Larva Injects Definitely should be Delayed some seconds or make 4 Larvas instead of 5 imo... Larva inject DOES make 4 larva. | ||
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SzaszaG
Hungary120 Posts
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dschneid
United States101 Posts
With that in mind I'm a little concerned about a few units and then just in general the addition of spells. One on my mind is the replicator. I don't know the details around this, cost, supply etc, but I worry that if it's say, 1-2 supply but it can copy any unit then it can essentially create supply, that is, imagine a PvT of equal supplies, but the P has 10 supply in replicators, then this allows for essentially an additional 20-30 supply added to the ball, which is huge. The other is how it can deal with counters, for example, in PvT the match up is largely reactionary and the terran is forced to react to the protoss. Any Terran knows that if you don't have enough vikings to counteract the colossi or ghosts to HT, you basically get rolled. With the replicators, now if they can make vikings it basically cancels them out, giving the colossis free range, likewise with ghosts (that can be used to snipe T's ghosts, potentially using cloak as well even if the terran didn't research it, if I understand that correctly). To play devil's advocate for a bit and not appear to be a completely biased T who sucks at PvT. I was a little concerned when I saw the power of the shredder. That was a large amount of lings that didn't make it at the cost of two shredders which are supposed to be pretty cheap, which is somewhat of an imbalance in terms of unit cost to unit cost. They say that it's basically intended to set up map control, which I understand, as any terran who has played a TvZ for example knows how annoying it is to push out and then all of the sudden have a ridiculous ling run by. Still, I foresee lots of strategies where this is brought with the army and then used to set up a contain (look what it did to the lings and roaches). while the terran is off killing an auxiliary 3rd or 4th base. Can these be put in drop ships? One could potentially decimate a mineral line by placing them there if they can manage it. Anyways, I trust that blizzard will, as always, look to balance their units, these are just a few things I was thinking off at first glance. | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
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Sandermatt
Switzerland1365 Posts
On October 25 2011 01:04 SzaszaG wrote: LoL xD Sorry, then should make 3 or get longer Cooldown. But thing is the same don't get 60 Workers for 8 min, while the others get 50 for 10 min =/ Each race has it's own advantages. When the zerg makes only drones he has no units. Zerg might be currently a little stronger in ZvP, but it's not that bad since the patch and Hots will reset balance anyway. A change like you propose would break zerg. | ||
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Lurk
Germany359 Posts
On October 25 2011 00:58 SzaszaG wrote: PvT Macro maybe balanced, cause Terran gets 1 MULE = 6 Workers (temporary) / 50 Energy = 100sec = ~2min, that conpensates the ~3 Worker / min that usually cannot mine cause of Building. But Larva Injects Definitely should be Delayed some seconds or make 4 Larvas instead of 5 imo... If you post numbers like this, do proper research. A MULE lasts 90s (1.5 min, not 2) and mines 270 minerals (at optimal conditions), this means 180 minerals/min, independent on saturation. A worker does 42 in unsaturated and 34 in saturated condition. This means a MULE mines as much as 4.3 (unsaturated) to 5.3 (saturated) workers, not 6. And it's not temporary either since by the time the last MULE times out, you got enough energy for the next. As long as not all your bases are saturated, chronoboost on probes keep in balance with MULEs from OCs - assuming the terran actually builds structures and thus has workers on building duty (usually ~2). Of course this doesn't take into account saturated conditions (protoss needs to expand earlier to circumvent this) and that terran uses less supply this way. But in terms of achievable income, chrono and MULEs are well balanced. Try to prove me otherwise by actual calculation or simulation if you don't believe me. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4782 Posts
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SzaszaG
Hungary120 Posts
(Btw Protoss has barely any units neither, if he tries to get 50 workers for 10 min.) | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On October 25 2011 01:14 Ghostcom wrote: I've been wondering - has the shredder got a timelimit (i.e. energy that it uses)? And can it be redeployed or is it a 1-time use (either permanently in an area or until energy is used up)? From watching the videos it seems like it hasn't got a limit, but I would be happy if someone could throw some light on this. As far as I know, you build it from a factory and then you have it until destroyed, just like any other terran unit. | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On October 25 2011 01:04 SzaszaG wrote: LoL xD Sorry, then should make 3 or get longer Cooldown. But thing is the same don't get 60 Workers for 8 min, while the others get 50 for 10 min =/ Not sure how this turned into a balance discussion but... You do realize that would affect all unit production for Zerg right? Not just Drones? It would especially affect Ling-centric builds since they are so larvae intensive. Blizzard has to be careful when they approach those kind of race-wide balance changes. Don't expect them to do it on a whim. | ||
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