Resurrection Mafia - Page 39

On September 06 2011 04:22 wherebugsgo wrote:
Wtf why would mafia not res ON? That's 1 KP, mafia plus zombie= 1 KP.

On September 06 2011 00:13 chaos13 wrote:
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see 4 scum in this setup. If it was a standard game, yeah probably just 3, but with the ability of town to confirm people like sinani and varp and resurrect them, and with roles like Daywalker (which unfortunately doesn't seem to be present) and Guardian Angel (assuming your claim is true) and the Pious Voter (assuming they don't suck at scumhunting) I would say town has a definite advantage that would be balanced out by 4 mafia. I don't want us to get stuck in a tunnel of believing there is only 3 scum and then be confused later.

I also don't think mafia will zombify ON. There would be no point to it. He would be lynched immediately so all they've done is made us waste a lynch. They don't actually gain KP from it in the end. Instead they're more likely to revive a town player that was lynched or killed. Why wouldn't they? It turns town against town, essentially, forcing us to use a lynch against our own members.

On September 06 2011 01:00 sandroba wrote:
That's so cool you assume both coroners are telling the truth when you called them both scum. Also if mafia has 4 members we are not guaranteed to hit day3. Another point is that seeing all roles town most likely has this game is slightly town favored even considering only 2 checks.

Coroner
Can look at a corpse and determine alignment and role. May be used any time, and will instantly return the information (as soon as I get the pm).

On September 05 2011 09:31 sinani206 wrote:


I am a Coroner.

redFF was my Apprentice.

When I was lynched Day 1, I had not used either of my checks (note: the role pm did not say there was a limit to checks per day)

So redFF got them both when I died. He only used one, on Varpulis, but he said that he used one on me, too. But the thing is he knew that I was Coroner since he was my apprentice and decided to check someone else.

So today, when I was revived, I was notified that I only had one check left. So I checked OriginalName, who was/is an inhibitor, to check how accurate the speculative scumteam of ON, bum, and Ace was. Obviously, from my information, it was pretty accurate.

Everyone, vote for Ace and bum. I am much more sure about bum being scum, just because this is the first game I've played with Ace.

Also, assuming we have a 1/1/1 scum team of Minion, Necromancer and Inhibitor, and that we only have one priest, one of the people revived today besides me has a power (one who must have been killed by the minion on Day 1) and the third person is a Zombie. Since we know it was a Minion shot that killed the second revival, and because Mafia had only 2 regular KP on Day 1, the Daywalker has not yet used his shot. If you feel confident, use your shot today, on Ace or bum. If not, we can just lynch both of them and win either way. EZ PZ.

On September 03 2011 10:32 redFF wrote:
im secret coroners apprentice, checked varp and sinani both town ressurect sinani plz.

So today, when I was revived, I was notified that I only had one check left. So I checked OriginalName, who was/is an inhibitor, to check how accurate the speculative scumteam of ON, bum, and Ace was. Obviously, from my information, it was pretty accurate.

So today, when I was revived, I was notified that I only had one check left. So I checked OriginalName, who was/is an inhibitor, to check how accurate the speculative scumteam of ON, bum, and Ace was. Obviously, from my information, it was pretty accurate.

Everyone, vote for Ace and bum. I am much more sure about bum being scum, just because this is the first game I've played with Ace.

On September 04 2011 07:05 redFF wrote:
im secret coroners apprentice, i can check twice a day.

On September 03 2011 06:56 redFF wrote:
kk since i have a feeling i will die tonight here is scumreads, in order from scummiest to least scummy(but still scummy)

varpulis, sinani, sandroba, originalname, ace(though his posting is getting better), bumatlarge.

Don't resurrect varpulis or sinani plz coroner varp.

On September 04 2011 05:20 redFF wrote:
btw if it isnt obvious i kinda took a step back today because my 2 scummiest reads were both town lol.

On September 06 2011 08:58 Ace wrote:


Gee, I wonder why. Pull your head out of your ass and think about it.

On September 06 2011 08:58 Ace wrote:
See, you guys dont even read the thread. Ok smart guy, tell me this:

When did the Town confirm Sinani as town, and how did we do it?

Show me. Outline it. I dare you.

On September 06 2011 08:58 Ace wrote:

If ON is truly Scum then how does that implicate bumatlarge and myself? Explain where we are linked together. Prove it instead of just hiding behind speculation.

On September 06 2011 09:48 BayonnetAnderson wrote:


I beg to differ. Please read "Sleeper Cell Mafia" or that game where everyone got guns and Ace was elected mayor for proof.

On September 05 2011 09:50 Ace wrote:
shut your face.

Jackal is telling the truth and he's legit.

On September 06 2011 09:54 sandroba wrote:
I have no hard proof all I have is behaviour and logic. Mafia is indeed a game of assumptions and that's how you work out the most reasonable explanation. The hard facts I have is that kp was 2 + minion day1 and 1 day2, plus the fact that I've been roleblocked twice while voting bumatlarge when otherwise he would be lynched.

Now the number of mafia players present is an important expeculation. I've given many reasons already why a number of mafia greater than 3 would be imbalanced and in one of your posts you agree with my logic. It also can't be lower than 3 due to balance and kp from day1. That being said that does indeed confirm varpulis and sinani as town.

One thing I find funny is that you jump all over redFF's claim, but you say nothing about bum's. That is contradictory to your own personal logic. Look at bum's claim. If he was town and indeed had that role how would you use that? You would try to fucking confirm townies by checking lists that had one vote looking for pious. That would be the most obvious thing to do and probably imbalanced as it would 100% confirm a player to bum in that case. Yet you never bothered to look into his claim nor at his behaviour. I wonder why.

Another example of contradictory behaviour:


Why? How come? Don't you find it slightly intriguing that there is a medic on a setup that people can ressurect? Jackal is suddenly legit to you based on nothing, but somehow you think when other players use reasoning to deduce if a claim is likely or not to be legit than they are "jumping to conclusions". Nice double standards right there. Your rules only apply to others, but not to you when you are pushing your objectives.

On September 06 2011 09:25 jcarlsoniv wrote:


Assuming mafia had 3 members to start with, then Mafia kp was 2. 3 people died that night. That is mafia kp + minion shot. sinani was lynched. If sinani was scum, then this would have reduced mafia kp to 1 before the mafia kills went out.




Sinani is town. I showed you. I outlined it for you.

On September 06 2011 10:15 sandroba wrote:
@Jackal That's not the point in my post. Are you convinced Ace is scum yet? =P

On September 06 2011 09:54 sandroba wrote:
I have no hard proof all I have is behaviour and logic. Mafia is indeed a game of assumptions and that's how you work out the most reasonable explanation. The hard facts I have is that kp was 2 + minion day1 and 1 day2, plus the fact that I've been roleblocked twice while voting bumatlarge when otherwise he would be lynched.

Now the number of mafia players present is an important expeculation. I've given many reasons already why a number of mafia greater than 3 would be imbalanced and in one of your posts you agree with my logic. It also can't be lower than 3 due to balance and kp from day1. That being said that does indeed confirm varpulis and sinani as town.

One thing I find funny is that you jump all over redFF's claim, but you say nothing about bum's. That is contradictory to your own personal logic. Look at bum's claim. If he was town and indeed had that role how would you use that? You would try to fucking confirm townies by checking lists that had one vote looking for pious. That would be the most obvious thing to do and probably imbalanced as it would 100% confirm a player to bum in that case. Yet you never bothered to look into his claim nor at his behaviour. I wonder why.

Another example of contradictory behaviour:


Why? How come? Don't you find it slightly intriguing that there is a medic on a setup that people can ressurect? Jackal is suddenly legit to you based on nothing, but somehow you think when other players use reasoning to deduce if a claim is likely or not to be legit than they are "jumping to conclusions". Nice double standards right there. Your rules only apply to others, but not to you when you are pushing your objectives.

On September 06 2011 10:18 Ace wrote:


What happens if there is 4 Scum

On September 06 2011 10:18 Ace wrote:


What happens if there is 4 Scum

On September 06 2011 00:47 sandroba wrote:
Let's assume 4 scum for a second. That means if town double mislynch day (which most certainly happened) and seeing it's pretty much proven mafia has a minion that it would make the game from 11/4 day1 to 6/4 day2. That means scum can guarantee a townie lynch day2 by simply voting on the same person. Add to the fact that they have a roleblocker. So that means at best day 3 would be 4/3 + 1 zombie assuming priest ressurects a townie and town actually lynches one scum day2. That means auto win by mafia since they can quickly vote for a townie and rb one of the voters. So if there is 4 scum in this setup that means all they need is a double mislynch day1 to be guaranteed victory baring medic protecting right a lot. Even then it's an almost guaranteed victory because they will always get 1 free kp from the double lynch. That is not a balanced setup so it's almost impossible that the number of scum is not 3.

On September 06 2011 08:58 Ace wrote:
sandroba I already explained why Scum can counter claim without fear. I'm probably the only player in TL Mafia history to break multiple setups easily during games - are you REALLY going to argue with this? No one can counter claim because it's a no flip game. This is fucking simple.

I'm not going to discuss whether there are 3 or 4, or 7 Mafia because it doesn't matter as much as discussing how the roles possibly work. Something you keep failing to understand. redFF nor Sinani are confirmed town, so you better stop putting words out there like they definitely are.



Gee, I wonder why. Pull your head out of your ass and think about it.



See, you guys dont even read the thread. Ok smart guy, tell me this:

When did the Town confirm Sinani as town, and how did we do it?

Show me. Outline it. I dare you.



How many no flip games have you ever played in? Tell the truth
How many games have you ever played in that you've seen a backup role? Tell the truth

Doesn't matter, because the answer is "Less than Ace".

Didn't you get roleblocked? Why are you still alive? And why are you so sure Sinani must be town? For someone who has been given a lot of leeway in terms of coming up with plans how could you overlook such a GLARING oversight? This is basic for anyone that's an above average Mafia player and should have been the first thing you noticed if you are as good as some of these scrubs believe you are.

Coroner role listed in the OP
No flip
No Counter Claim ability of any role

Proof by death is usually one of the obstacles that stops Mafia from doing too many powerful Gambits. Every good Scum player I've known on various internet forums and irl pretty much agree: No flip helps Scum because of the how hard it is to confirm Townies. Knowing this, most Townies won't just blindly roleclaim in a no flip game as they know there has to be a role or some special mechanic or circumstances for them to be believed.

And you expect me to believe redFF or just let it fly because he might be stupid. K. But I've already outlined why 2 players that can't confirm each other or can't be confirmed are possibly Scum. The insistence in denying bumatlarge's claim but taking redFF's claim over his is pretty fishy.

But let's get back to the roles. Once again I'm going to quote the OP because thats where anyone thats every played with their heads and broken games before starts. Use whats given to you:



iGrok confirmed that some roles are incomplete. The Coroner role may very well have some other options - but that's it. Options. The role explicitly states you can look at a corpse. That means one. redFF somehow looked at 2 corpses. As a back up role. Back up roles can't be more powerful than the original.

Then there is this major snag here:



A couple of issues.

1.) Why did redFF never claim Apprentice but Sinani did. This was redFF's claim:




Apprentice vs Secret Coroner's Apprentice. Different role names.

2.) Now this one is a bit of a flyer because I dont know if iGrok knows about this, but I'm going to assume he does. In majority of games with backups, the original role and the backup either dont know they both exist, or the backup is not self-aware. This is an important caveat of games with back ups because if they both know each other exist they can both claim and prove the other role is legit. This is partially solved by it being a no flip game and having the coroner have to check out the dead claimant.

They claimed coroner, oops.

The other point is about being self aware, or knowing you are a backup. This can lead to all kinds of stupid shit happening but for the sake of argument lets keep it simple. I was watching redFF's claim very careful and when he claimed apprentice I was waiting to see if he would say he was a normal Townie and then suddenly became back up Coroner. This didn't happen though and made me extra skeptical.

The chances of his shoddy role claim, being self-aware, and the original Coroner KNOWING there is a backup would be an amazing set of coincidences. Lets continue.

3.) sinani said he didn't use either of his checks. redFF gets both of them while he died.

OK STOP. Once again I'm going to go off on a flyer here but this needs to be taken into context. I dont think iGrok would ever break a role like this. This is the first part of the explanation:

Why would he punish the Mafia team like this? The Mafia correctly pops the Coroner on Day 1. The Town gets a back up Coroner who gets a Day 1 and Day 2 check, punishing the Mafia for hitting correctly on the first day. This is somewhat shoddy balance and if this is the case then so be it.

So today, when I was revived, I was notified that I only had one check left. So I checked OriginalName, who was/is an inhibitor, to check how accurate the speculative scumteam of ON, bum, and Ace was. Obviously, from my information, it was pretty accurate.

So today, when I was revived, I was notified that I only had one check left. So I checked OriginalName, who was/is an inhibitor, to check how accurate the speculative scumteam of ON, bum, and Ace was. Obviously, from my information, it was pretty accurate.

Everyone, vote for Ace and bum. I am much more sure about bum being scum, just because this is the first game I've played with Ace.

On September 04 2011 07:05 redFF wrote:
im secret coroners apprentice, i can check twice a day.

On September 03 2011 06:56 redFF wrote:
kk since i have a feeling i will die tonight here is scumreads, in order from scummiest to least scummy(but still scummy)

varpulis, sinani, sandroba, originalname, ace(though his posting is getting better), bumatlarge.

Don't resurrect varpulis or sinani plz coroner varp.

On September 04 2011 05:20 redFF wrote:
btw if it isnt obvious i kinda took a step back today because my 2 scummiest reads were both town lol.

On September 06 2011 10:24 sandroba wrote:
Also Ace, when I first started playing and I was seeking advice from you on the behaviour of a player that kept mentioning previous games and what a great scumhunter he was, you told me I was right to be suspicious and that those games had no relevance to the current one. Turned out he was scum.

Now you are doing the same thing here, saying you are great and have the most experience, yet this game you have done nothing to find scum or "break" the setup in favor of town. All those other games you played in which you were townie I'm sure you did great. Yet this game all you've done is abitrarily nit-pick on a claim from a COMPLETELY NEW AND MADE UP SETUP that you have no previous knowledge of. You claim it to be absurd, yet you say I'm the one jumping into conclusions. You completely disregard behaviour and other issues and you only push your agenda when convinient. You are not analysing each scenario and pondering everything, you are distorting the information to meet your ultimate goal. You are scum =)

On September 06 2011 10:24 Ace wrote:
*redFF messed up his claim.

Really what this comes down to is: Is redFF really THAT bad of a player that he did not read the OP and think about the overall strategy of the game? I don't usually let people go away with that excuse.

@jcarlsoniv:

Show me the exact scenario again and order of events. With quotes and everything that proves this.