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Active: 31551 users

[D] Innovation's TvZ (CC first)

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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1 2 3 4 Next All
sixilli
Profile Joined April 2013
51 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-10 19:22:30
May 09 2013 23:40 GMT
#1
Intro
I'm a diamond level player just looking to share my notes with the world and to discuss this strategy. I didn't really feel like going the whole 9 yards and making a guide but I feel like this could prove to be useful to other players looking to broaden their horizons.

The Build
This build is a pretty typical CC first with a fast third but the follow up is what makes this build so solid. By delaying the starport you're able to get stim and +1/+1 very quickly. The high hellion count of this build forces the zerg to invest into defenses. I took this build from his match vs life in the GSL game 2. In game 1 he favored a lower hellion count to get faster add ons. That build is much more complicated to map out but it's roughly the same.

I have also tested this build out many times in game to assure that these are the right numbers.

10 Depot
14 CC
15 Barracks (only build 2 marines)
16 Refinery
18 OC x2
20 Bunker
21 Factory
22 Reactor on barracks
23 Depot
26 CC(3)
@100% Factory swap to reactor, barracks starts techlab (Start stim after 1 marauder)
34~ wall in natural (depots)
44 Refinery
7:30 double engineering bays, then add 2 rax with 2 reactors immediatly
8:00 double refinery
8:45 Starport (reactor immediatly)
9:00 add 2 more Barracks add reactors immediately
12:00 add Factory (tehclab immediatly, research drilling claws)

Notes

Ideal mid game composition:marine, medivac, widow mine.

Make about 10 hellions then switch to widow mine production.

At 34 supply he spams depots so he can micro his hellions more intensively. He does this throughout the game

Replay
Will try to add replays of me doing this build sometimes soonish.
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
May 09 2013 23:44 GMT
#2
Nice time to scour this. I will take any innovaiton builds I can get my hands on. Looking forward to reading.
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
sixilli
Profile Joined April 2013
51 Posts
May 09 2013 23:45 GMT
#3
On May 10 2013 08:44 iAmJeffReY wrote:
Nice time to scour this. I will take any innovaiton builds I can get my hands on. Looking forward to reading.


After seeing his recent success all I wanted to do was learn his builds but his replays are hard to come by.
Tuczniak
Profile Joined September 2010
1561 Posts
May 09 2013 23:54 GMT
#4
Is it ok to post restreamed videos of WCS KR (GSL)?
sixilli
Profile Joined April 2013
51 Posts
May 09 2013 23:55 GMT
#5
No idea but I can take them down if needed!
Ollz
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom3 Posts
May 10 2013 11:18 GMT
#6
It's pretty obviously not okay if they're charging people to view the VODs?
Acreno
Profile Joined December 2012
Poland9 Posts
May 10 2013 19:01 GMT
#7
Realy good job ! Big thanks
AyaaLa
Profile Joined February 2012
Spain629 Posts
May 10 2013 19:04 GMT
#8
If InnovatioN goes to the finals this season i am going to travel to korea to see it live! Innovation is such a beast!
i balance whine all the time.
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8476 Posts
May 10 2013 19:04 GMT
#9
Please don't post re-streamed VODs. I've removed the links from your post.
Moderator
sixilli
Profile Joined April 2013
51 Posts
May 10 2013 19:22 GMT
#10
Sorry about that and thanks for not deleting my thread :D
ScrubS
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands436 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-10 20:02:34
May 10 2013 19:58 GMT
#11
Isn't this just the flash Flash used in MLG vs Life? He actually used it twice in his series (if i remember well). I think innovation just copied it of him :p

Edit: yeah, http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/videos/100107-life-vs-flash-game-1-grand-finals-mlg-dallas-2013
I think he used it tons more in the tourny, I remember seeing him use that build like 4 or 5 times
captainwaffles
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1050 Posts
May 10 2013 21:19 GMT
#12
Is this the build Innovation used vs Life in the group of death?
https://x.com/CaptainWaffless
Acreno
Profile Joined December 2012
Poland9 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-10 22:23:04
May 10 2013 21:21 GMT
#13
Anyone know how to adapt this build when zerg from my low level (gold/plat) trying to allin me from 2 base ?

I cant take my third when he send to my natural lots of ling + banes and I dont have enough stuff to don't lose to much :/
Then he is taking third and I'm way behind to win game. Should I need tank or sth else to hold it and safely expand ?
Jerom
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands588 Posts
May 10 2013 21:51 GMT
#14
On May 11 2013 06:21 Acreno wrote:
Anyone know how to adapt this build when zerg from my low level (gold/plat) trying to allin me from 2 base ?

I cant take my third when he send to my natural lots of ling + banes and I dont have enough stuff to don't lose to much :/
Then he is taking third and I'm way behing to win game. Should I need tank or sth else to hold it and safely expand ?

I'd say swapping around the factory and the barracks, once a tech lab has been made, to produce a single tank means you'll be completely safe. Maybe look at the VOD's of the code A series between DRG and Supernova, I think Supernova used that build, or at least something very similair to that, in game 2.
sixilli
Profile Joined April 2013
51 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-10 22:48:53
May 10 2013 22:36 GMT
#15
On May 11 2013 06:19 captainwaffles wrote:
Is this the build Innovation used vs Life in the group of death?


Yes it is!

On May 11 2013 04:58 ScrubS wrote:
Isn't this just the flash Flash used in MLG vs Life? He actually used it twice in his series (if i remember well). I think innovation just copied it of him :p

Edit: yeah, http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/videos/100107-life-vs-flash-game-1-grand-finals-mlg-dallas-2013
I think he used it tons more in the tourny, I remember seeing him use that build like 4 or 5 times


After re watching some games I can say they aren't the same but they're similar. To be fair CC first prioritizing fast upgrades can be fairly cookie cutter in terms of build order. I'm sure innovation got the idea from flash but either way I'm happy with this build order.
TheKleszcz
Profile Joined August 2012
Poland11 Posts
May 11 2013 10:59 GMT
#16
Looks very interesting, thanks. Will it be ok to use against any race in lower leagues like till gold?

If you have any replays of it, please share.
sixilli
Profile Joined April 2013
51 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-11 16:49:20
May 11 2013 16:48 GMT
#17
On May 11 2013 19:59 TheKleszcz wrote:
Looks very interesting, thanks. Will it be ok to use against any race in lower leagues like till gold?

If you have any replays of it, please share.


I would have to say no. Terran and Protoss have so man agressive openings that I don't think it will be a good idea. Plus 10 hellions against protoss are going to be useless unless you drop them.
padfoota
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Taiwan1571 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-11 18:04:52
May 11 2013 17:57 GMT
#18
Isnt this THE standard build regarding hellions 3 CC into double upgrade mass rax build with mines/hellbat?
Although the same build applies if you go for 1 rax FE, 14 CC, or double reaper off a 11/11 timing then expand.


Yes, I am aware that the timing is a bit off depending from person to person and from BO to BO, but this is an opener into mid game transition, not a rush build or a timing attack build. TvZ is seriously just about early game hellions, 3rd CC, one marauder, mid game marine + reactor'd factory unit + medevac, and transition as needed

I applaud you for sharing the result of your research (most likely took you a couple hours) but I dont see why people should look very closely into the timings provided.


Depending on the current metagame you are dealing with, it might be slightly safer to go 1 rax FE or even 11 2x reaper expand that all transitions into the same thing. This is a TvZ build only. Its ok to attempt this in the lower leagues since its an extremely safe build if you react correctly, while giving you heavy early game pressure option with the 6-10 hellions + double widowmine.

Contrary to most TL guides, this build will NOT raise your winrate suddenly (see hellbat drop guide and the DT drop expand guide). It is pretty much the same as a detailed 1 rax FE guide on liquidpedia since its so commonly used these days.
Stop procrastinating
Thor.Rush
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden702 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-11 18:02:01
May 11 2013 18:01 GMT
#19
I don't understand the point in posting this. Every top terran is doing this build except for minor tweaks here and there, but nothing really notable.
| SaSe | Naniwa |Stephano | LucifroN | Mvp | MarineKing | ByuN | Polt | MC | Parting |
sixilli
Profile Joined April 2013
51 Posts
May 11 2013 19:20 GMT
#20
On May 12 2013 03:01 Thor.Rush wrote:
I don't understand the point in posting this. Every top terran is doing this build except for minor tweaks here and there, but nothing really notable.


Well the reason to post this is most people don't know how to do an effective CC first build that's this far optimized. I know the build really isn't anything special but for someone who doesn't want to spend a few hours to learn a build order can just copy this one.
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