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[D] Innovation's TvZ (CC first) - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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DruidzHistory
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden231 Posts
May 11 2013 19:23 GMT
#21
I've been doing this for a while but i'm having trouble holding various allins - would you recommend going for tanks instead of allins if you scout it?
Thor.Rush
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden702 Posts
May 11 2013 20:49 GMT
#22
On May 12 2013 04:20 sixilli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2013 03:01 Thor.Rush wrote:
I don't understand the point in posting this. Every top terran is doing this build except for minor tweaks here and there, but nothing really notable.


Well the reason to post this is most people don't know how to do an effective CC first build that's this far optimized. I know the build really isn't anything special but for someone who doesn't want to spend a few hours to learn a build order can just copy this one.

fair enough
| SaSe | Naniwa |Stephano | LucifroN | Mvp | MarineKing | ByuN | Polt | MC | Parting |
futility
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Japan134 Posts
May 13 2013 00:15 GMT
#23
I appreciate this post, my tvz build is sorely outdated and I've been looking for something like this to replace it.
Sludgepapa
Profile Joined June 2012
United States14 Posts
May 13 2013 03:26 GMT
#24
I was doing a build very similar to this after I watched Flash play in his GSL RO32 matches, and I was able to move up from Bronze to Gold in just one day. Very solid build, made TvZ my favorite match up to play.
oZe
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden492 Posts
May 13 2013 19:05 GMT
#25
On May 12 2013 03:01 Thor.Rush wrote:
I don't understand the point in posting this. Every top terran is doing this build except for minor tweaks here and there, but nothing really notable.


Yes but the point is that THE TOP SC2 player who happens to play terran. Who with 30% of his wins being offraced with zerg still is #1 GM(when I checked he was 3 points behind #1 but being as he had offraced so much I think it's fair to call him #1 in korea did this.
The worst kinds of organized crime are religion & government.
sixilli
Profile Joined April 2013
51 Posts
May 13 2013 19:05 GMT
#26
Yeah I've been in love with this build. It has helped my TvZ a lot.
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2143 Posts
May 13 2013 19:22 GMT
#27
Thank you for this. Appreciate all InNovation information I can get!
sixilli
Profile Joined April 2013
51 Posts
May 16 2013 00:58 GMT
#28
No problem!
Popkiller
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
3415 Posts
May 16 2013 01:50 GMT
#29
I wonder how Innovation would respond to the Catz build, in which he drone scouts at 13, and if he sees CC first on the high ground he takes his third hatch in the Terran's nat and bad times ensue for the Terran.
jere
Profile Joined September 2010
United States121 Posts
May 16 2013 03:09 GMT
#30
Popkiller on a two player map CC first should be dead everytime with a Catz drone scout, four player luck of the draw. But I would say still go for it to see. What is at the wall can be indicative of what that player is doing.
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
May 16 2013 09:52 GMT
#31
On May 16 2013 10:50 Popkiller wrote:
I wonder how Innovation would respond to the Catz build, in which he drone scouts at 13, and if he sees CC first on the high ground he takes his third hatch in the Terran's nat and bad times ensue for the Terran.

If you mean proxy third hatch before pool, it's a horrible gimmick which achieves nothing. Someone did it to me yesterday, I simply cancelled my gas to build a second rax, bunk within range of the hatch and SCVs/Marines had no troubles holding his lings/queen/spines agression.
VBBandit
Profile Joined February 2012
Australia20 Posts
May 16 2013 11:31 GMT
#32
Thanks for posting this, i've been looking for an alternate build to my reaper opener. This looks like it may fix many of my problems
Kvassten
Profile Joined May 2012
Sweden159 Posts
May 16 2013 12:02 GMT
#33
Really nice build, how do you react if you see that the zerg is going for a roach bust at ~7:00? Can you hold it with just 1 bunker with 2 marines and 1 maruader?
Decendos
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1338 Posts
May 16 2013 12:10 GMT
#34
On May 16 2013 18:52 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2013 10:50 Popkiller wrote:
I wonder how Innovation would respond to the Catz build, in which he drone scouts at 13, and if he sees CC first on the high ground he takes his third hatch in the Terran's nat and bad times ensue for the Terran.

If you mean proxy third hatch before pool, it's a horrible gimmick which achieves nothing. Someone did it to me yesterday, I simply cancelled my gas to build a second rax, bunk within range of the hatch and SCVs/Marines had no troubles holding his lings/queen/spines agression.


is catz always doing the all in type with lings spines and queens? i think just stealing the opponents natural to delay it can be worth the 350 minerals for the hatch. tried it a lot vs reaper expand but it might be a lot better vs CC first.
massivez
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium653 Posts
May 16 2013 12:14 GMT
#35
On May 14 2013 04:05 oZe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2013 03:01 Thor.Rush wrote:
I don't understand the point in posting this. Every top terran is doing this build except for minor tweaks here and there, but nothing really notable.


Yes but the point is that THE TOP SC2 player who happens to play terran. Who with 30% of his wins being offraced with zerg still is #1 GM(when I checked he was 3 points behind #1 but being as he had offraced so much I think it's fair to call him #1 in korea did this.


he isnt offracing zerg. That's Hyvaa hes sharing his account with.
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
May 17 2013 11:37 GMT
#36
On May 16 2013 21:10 Decendos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2013 18:52 TheDwf wrote:
On May 16 2013 10:50 Popkiller wrote:
I wonder how Innovation would respond to the Catz build, in which he drone scouts at 13, and if he sees CC first on the high ground he takes his third hatch in the Terran's nat and bad times ensue for the Terran.

If you mean proxy third hatch before pool, it's a horrible gimmick which achieves nothing. Someone did it to me yesterday, I simply cancelled my gas to build a second rax, bunk within range of the hatch and SCVs/Marines had no troubles holding his lings/queen/spines agression.


is catz always doing the all in type with lings spines and queens? i think just stealing the opponents natural to delay it can be worth the 350 minerals for the hatch. tried it a lot vs reaper expand but it might be a lot better vs CC first.

You can't steal the natural. CC first expands at 2'16 - 2'22, you don't have 300 minerals at this time after hatch first to build your third hatch there.
TheMagicianSC2
Profile Joined May 2013
France74 Posts
May 17 2013 12:55 GMT
#37
Sounds good, THX !
Could be great to add a replay or a VOD of Innovation doing this
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." Day[9]
gobbledydook
Profile Joined October 2012
Australia2602 Posts
May 17 2013 13:01 GMT
#38
On May 17 2013 20:37 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2013 21:10 Decendos wrote:
On May 16 2013 18:52 TheDwf wrote:
On May 16 2013 10:50 Popkiller wrote:
I wonder how Innovation would respond to the Catz build, in which he drone scouts at 13, and if he sees CC first on the high ground he takes his third hatch in the Terran's nat and bad times ensue for the Terran.

If you mean proxy third hatch before pool, it's a horrible gimmick which achieves nothing. Someone did it to me yesterday, I simply cancelled my gas to build a second rax, bunk within range of the hatch and SCVs/Marines had no troubles holding his lings/queen/spines agression.


is catz always doing the all in type with lings spines and queens? i think just stealing the opponents natural to delay it can be worth the 350 minerals for the hatch. tried it a lot vs reaper expand but it might be a lot better vs CC first.

You can't steal the natural. CC first expands at 2'16 - 2'22, you don't have 300 minerals at this time after hatch first to build your third hatch there.


catz's build is against CC first on the high ground specifically, because if you build it on the high ground and don't have vision of your natural, it's certainly very possible to have a hatch completing a bit after the CC finishes.
Against CC on the low ground it doesn't work though.
I am a dirty Protoss bullshit abuser
sixilli
Profile Joined April 2013
51 Posts
May 17 2013 13:33 GMT
#39
On May 17 2013 21:55 TheMagicianSC2 wrote:
Sounds good, THX !
Could be great to add a replay or a VOD of Innovation doing this


I did but it got removed because it's from the GSL. Lets just say if you want to see a VOD you can find it if you look. x]
captive411
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States80 Posts
May 17 2013 16:22 GMT
#40
On May 11 2013 06:21 Acreno wrote:
Anyone know how to adapt this build when zerg from my low level (gold/plat) trying to allin me from 2 base ?

I cant take my third when he send to my natural lots of ling + banes and I dont have enough stuff to don't lose to much :/
Then he is taking third and I'm way behind to win game. Should I need tank or sth else to hold it and safely expand ?


Try going into Stim Marines instead of a 3rd CC:

TvZ Reaper Hellion into Stim Marines
See Gumiho vs Jaedong Neo Planet S - DH Stockholm 2013
1:40 - 12 Rax
1:51 - 12 Gas
2:51 - 15 OCC - depot 16 - Reaper x 2
3:57 - 19 Expand
4:25 - FACTORY + Reactor on RAX1
Kill drones with 2 reapers while fax builds and minerals build up to around 500
5:30 - Swap Fax and Rax
5:37 - Rax x 2 + OCC at Nat + 2 hellions
5:45 Tech lab on Rax1
6:21 2nd Gas + Stim
Poke front with Hellions and reapers
6:51 +3 on gas and Reactors on Rax 2 + 3
7:18 26 SCVs 6 Hellions 1 Marine Start building depots 2x2
7:49 - Starport
7:57 - EBay
8:00: Push 3rd
8:50 - after push, Swap Fax + Starport so Port is on Reactor - combat shield, 2 medivacs, +1atk
Stay in Base until Medivacs pop - build depots, take 3rd and 4th gas, start 3rd
10:00 - 11:00 - Drop and secure 3rd
twitter.com/stormcrack
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