EPTWhen do you push out and pressure?
Do hellion harass into medvac drops then pass with the big 2/2 marine mine at 13min?
Or do you just hellion harass into 2/2 push?
[D] Innovation's TvZ (CC first) - Page 4
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eMM
Australia34 Posts
When do you push out and pressure? Do hellion harass into medvac drops then pass with the big 2/2 marine mine at 13min? Or do you just hellion harass into 2/2 push? | ||
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doktorLucifer
United States855 Posts
I think with THIS version of the build, since there's no add-on swapping, you could theoretically either constantly make hellions to keep harassing until your 2/2 push is ready. Not sure how many mines you want with your 2/2 push, but you'd need to stop the hellion harass/production early enough to get a few mines to be able to push successfully. Anyway, I was gold just a two days ago, and got into plat today (probably with the help of this build). The main problem for me is getting the **micro** right. I almost ALWAYS lose the first army to a bunch of banes. The only reason I can win those games is because the zerg starts to relax and miss macro cycles. -_- | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
On May 12 2013 02:57 padfoota wrote: Isnt this THE standard build regarding hellions 3 CC into double upgrade mass rax build with mines/hellbat? Although the same build applies if you go for 1 rax FE, 14 CC, or double reaper off a 11/11 timing then expand. Yes, I am aware that the timing is a bit off depending from person to person and from BO to BO, but this is an opener into mid game transition, not a rush build or a timing attack build. TvZ is seriously just about early game hellions, 3rd CC, one marauder, mid game marine + reactor'd factory unit + medevac, and transition as needed I applaud you for sharing the result of your research (most likely took you a couple hours) but I dont see why people should look very closely into the timings provided. Depending on the current metagame you are dealing with, it might be slightly safer to go 1 rax FE or even 11 2x reaper expand that all transitions into the same thing. This is a TvZ build only. Its ok to attempt this in the lower leagues since its an extremely safe build if you react correctly, while giving you heavy early game pressure option with the 6-10 hellions + double widowmine. Contrary to most TL guides, this build will NOT raise your winrate suddenly (see hellbat drop guide and the DT drop expand guide). It is pretty much the same as a detailed 1 rax FE guide on liquidpedia since its so commonly used these days. The timings in this guide are fairly good for learning a build to take you all the way to GM. What is missing is the little things, what to do with units and scouting etc. | ||
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sixilli
51 Posts
On June 01 2013 13:58 vaderseven wrote: The timings in this guide are fairly good for learning a build to take you all the way to GM. What is missing is the little things, what to do with units and scouting etc. Yeah there is a big reason I opened the thread with a [D] and not a [G] x] I feel like if you're good enough to execute this build you should do fairly well with the units at your disposal. I personally have stopped using this build due to the amount of roach rushes >.< | ||
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padawan1997
Vietnam7 Posts
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WeRRa
378 Posts
On June 01 2013 14:31 sixilli wrote: Yeah there is a big reason I opened the thread with a [D] and not a [G] x] I feel like if you're good enough to execute this build you should do fairly well with the units at your disposal. I personally have stopped using this build due to the amount of roach rushes >.< First of all innovation doesn't build 10 hellions, he makes 6 and as soon sa you scout some roachwaren, just keep on making widow mines and don't use the the factory to make more reactor for third rax and starport. Delays your timings but your save. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On June 01 2013 13:30 doktorLucifer wrote: This is the version of the build I learned just a few days ago, it's slightly slower (read: it's incorrect) than the one posted here. The one posted here actually gets everything as soon as you have the resources, but the posted version might be more optimal with regards to add-ons.. (It uses the fac to make reactors, so every time you finish two rax, one of them gets a reactor) I think with THIS version of the build, since there's no add-on swapping, you could theoretically either constantly make hellions to keep harassing until your 2/2 push is ready. Not sure how many mines you want with your 2/2 push, but you'd need to stop the hellion harass/production early enough to get a few mines to be able to push successfully. Anyway, I was gold just a two days ago, and got into plat today (probably with the help of this build). The main problem for me is getting the **micro** right. I almost ALWAYS lose the first army to a bunch of banes. The only reason I can win those games is because the zerg starts to relax and miss macro cycles. -_- I think one of the strengths of his build is that the first push actually isn't very important damagewise. But it forces the zerg into baneling tech, which you want, as you will just be very costefficient if you just keep on pushing over and over again with marine/mine, while he is slowed down. | ||
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aNGryaRchon
United States438 Posts
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sixilli
51 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On June 03 2013 00:38 sixilli wrote: From the game I took this from he did indeed build 10 helions. To be honest I would not recommend building 10 hellions if you feel a roach rush coming. He built 10 Hellions because he was playing Life, i. e. someone who never builds a Roach Warren unless he's forced. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On June 03 2013 01:39 TheDwf wrote: He built 10 Hellions because he was playing Life, i. e. someone who never builds a Roach Warren unless he's forced. Didn't he roach allin twice vs Last in his Ro32 games? But anyways, I also think that Innovation made the 10hellions to counter Life's zergling overproduction which counters the usual 4-6 hellions.  | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On June 03 2013 02:00 Big J wrote: Didn't he roach allin twice vs Last in his Ro32 games? But anyways, I also think that Innovation made the 10hellions to counter Life's zergling overproduction which counters the usual 4-6 hellions. No, he reactively went Roaches on the Daybreak game upon finding a suspicious reactor rax (i. e. indicative of a hidden Starport for Hellbat drops) with his over sac. This counts as a case of being forced into Roaches since obviously Zerglings alone won't handle dual Hellbat drops. The Bel'shir Vestige game was a 3-bases Baneling bust. | ||
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