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So, while I was at the HotS launch party I got a chance to do a long interview with Chris Sigaty, the Production Director of SC2, about a whole battery of topics ranging from the launch, to Brood War influence, Blizzard's interactions with the community, the WCS, Blizzard's eSports plans for next year, the Arcade, and Dustin's acknowledgement of failure with regards to the arcade in Heart of the Swarm. An excerpt's below, and you can read the full interview over at RTSGuru
RTS: So, when looking at some of the new units in Heart of the Swarm, it's pretty hard to not draw certain comparisons – like the Hellbat greatly resembles the Firebat, and the Viper looks a lot like the Defiler, the Widow Mine feels kind of like an evolved Spider Mine. Dustin and David have said in the past that this is sort of coincidence – but just in general, how often does the current StarCraft II team look at what was successful in Brood War when looking to iterate on the current design of StarCraft II?
Chris: I think those are very much coincidences. I think you can jump to Defiler comparisons, but the Viper is one of my favorite units because of Abduct, which is completely new. So, certainly not on purpose. If there is some of that, I think...one of the challenges, the areas that I certainly would sweat about, was here we are with Wings of Liberty, feeling pretty good about it getting better and better across time and really still in a discovery phase, even two years out, and now here we are with this Heart of the Swarm package, and we're going “What space are we going to fill here? Where are we going to put this new balance into the Terran, and what is the thing we're really trying to accomplish?”
So, a lot of it was finding the right niche, so the familiarity, if it is there, that certainly wasn't on purpose and I don't know if I agree that it's that way, but it was not because we looked to Brood War and said “What does Brood War have? Let's get that in there.” I think there are styles of things we're trying to get, addressing certain challenges, and things like AOE on a unit naturally played to a fire-based unit, so sure, you can draw a similarity, but it certainly wasn't because we wanted to. It does also play into the kits well – so there is some coincidence there but definitely not on purpose.
RTS: So...convergent design, I guess?
Chris: Yeah, I think to some degree. But it's certainly not us looking back to the “Brood War handbook” for advice or something, I think it was more “What is the whole? Let's try to work with this.” Ultimately, how did the Widow Mine evolve for example, and it changed and took on several different roles even during the beta. Where it ended up is what felt best for the game right there.
RTS: 2012 saw a major overhaul of the Arcade with the 1.5 patch, and Heart of the Swarm released and that overhauled quite a bit of the Battle.net UI with clans and groups, and all of that. In the FAQ for Heart of the Swarm, it also promised more upgrades to the Arcade – which Dustin commented on in the AMA last week and said that he feels that they “failed to deliver on that promise,” quoting him, so does Blizzard currently have plans to make further improvements to the Arcade and the custom map experience during Swarm?
Chris: Well, there were definitely things that did get added – as far as 1.5 and how big that patch was, I don't know that our intention was to do it again. I think we delivered the core essence of what we were after, but there were things even like how open games list that came online with 2.0 that feed better than what we did prior to this, and those sorts of changes are definitely still there and things that we'll still be continuing to look at. There are a number of different upgrades that came online with 2.0 which are really “part of Swarm” that make the life of a map developer, a game developer, the Arcade better, but I don't expect to see significance that way.
Where we continue to look are ways that we can better embrace Arcade and help this community out – these passionate creators make and be successful making games that way so yeah, I would expect to see some things come online over the next several months and certainly before Legacy of the Void that will continue to improve that landscape, but I guess to put it in perspective I wouldn't expect something at the level of what we saw with 1.5. That was significant, and that was really trying to get a more “App Store” like capability in the game, and we've done that now, we may tweak that but it won't be something as massive as that.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
Looks like you got some decent answers and not vague non-answers like we generally get, nice job!
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I find it incredibly hard to believe that they're merry coincidences. Yes abduct is great with the new medivac boosters and the fact the viper can actually fly so there's a bit more to it. The good news is Blizzard got the memo about incorporating more defensive units and now we have several that have more versatility.
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Great interview good work!
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On March 19 2013 05:49 StarStruck wrote:
I find it incredibly hard to believe that they're merry coincidences. Yes abduct is great with the new medivac boosters and the fact the viper can actually fly so there's a bit more to it. The good news is Blizzard got the memo about incorporating more defensive units and now we have several that have more versatility.
Seriously, why not just admit they should have made a game that mirrored BW more from beginning?
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Sadly doesn't sound like they have any employees that worked on or played Brood War. Explains all the headaches we've had on balance since SC2's release. I get a feeling of ego from his words "No we wouldn't dare go look at that old dusty tome". Can't we just admit that the guys that made Brood War made some golden decisions and then learn from them? I feel like some humility could go a long way.
Feels to me like an issue of "we have better tech and artists now, therefor we have better design too", when really the balance/design skill seems to be who knows where.
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Wow Chris is a master of not really answering a question. I guess thats why he has that position, lol.
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Nice interview. Thanks for sharing.
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On March 19 2013 06:02 CecilSunkure wrote:
Sadly doesn't sound like they have any employees that worked on or played Brood War. Explains all the headaches we've had on balance since SC2's release. I get a feeling of ego from his words "No we wouldn't dare go look at that old dusty tome". Can't we just admit that the guys that made Brood War made some golden decisions and then learn from them? I feel like some humility could go a long way.
Feels to me like an issue of "we have better tech and artists now, therefor we have better design too", when really the design skill seems to who knows where?
I think the number of people who played broodwar on some sort of competitive level(that would be accepted by TL as competitive) that also have the programming/artistic/writing skills to work at Blizzard might be a very small group of people(ie, zero). Even DK has a degree in computer science along with being pretty good at games.
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On March 19 2013 06:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 06:02 CecilSunkure wrote:
Sadly doesn't sound like they have any employees that worked on or played Brood War. Explains all the headaches we've had on balance since SC2's release. I get a feeling of ego from his words "No we wouldn't dare go look at that old dusty tome". Can't we just admit that the guys that made Brood War made some golden decisions and then learn from them? I feel like some humility could go a long way.
Feels to me like an issue of "we have better tech and artists now, therefor we have better design too", when really the design skill seems to who knows where? I think the number of people who played broodwar on some sort of competitive level(that would be accepted by TL as competitive) that also have the programming/artistic/writing skills to work at Blizzard might be a very small group of people(ie, zero). Even DK has a degree in computer science along with being pretty good at games.
Don't know who DK is, but I've done some professional design and balance work on a AAA RTS. Really it doesn't take a genius to come up with good decisions so much as someone that listens and has a proper sense of humility.
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On March 19 2013 06:10 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 06:08 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2013 06:02 CecilSunkure wrote:
Sadly doesn't sound like they have any employees that worked on or played Brood War. Explains all the headaches we've had on balance since SC2's release. I get a feeling of ego from his words "No we wouldn't dare go look at that old dusty tome". Can't we just admit that the guys that made Brood War made some golden decisions and then learn from them? I feel like some humility could go a long way.
Feels to me like an issue of "we have better tech and artists now, therefor we have better design too", when really the design skill seems to who knows where? I think the number of people who played broodwar on some sort of competitive level(that would be accepted by TL as competitive) that also have the programming/artistic/writing skills to work at Blizzard might be a very small group of people(ie, zero). Even DK has a degree in computer science along with being pretty good at games. Don't know who DK is, but I've done some professional design and balance work on a AAA RTS. Really it doesn't take a genius to come up with good decisions so much as someone that listens and has a proper sense of humility.
David Kim
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On March 19 2013 06:14 Grovbolle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 06:10 CecilSunkure wrote:On March 19 2013 06:08 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2013 06:02 CecilSunkure wrote:
Sadly doesn't sound like they have any employees that worked on or played Brood War. Explains all the headaches we've had on balance since SC2's release. I get a feeling of ego from his words "No we wouldn't dare go look at that old dusty tome". Can't we just admit that the guys that made Brood War made some golden decisions and then learn from them? I feel like some humility could go a long way.
Feels to me like an issue of "we have better tech and artists now, therefor we have better design too", when really the design skill seems to who knows where? I think the number of people who played broodwar on some sort of competitive level(that would be accepted by TL as competitive) that also have the programming/artistic/writing skills to work at Blizzard might be a very small group of people(ie, zero). Even DK has a degree in computer science along with being pretty good at games. Don't know who DK is, but I've done some professional design and balance work on a AAA RTS. Really it doesn't take a genius to come up with good decisions so much as someone that listens and has a proper sense of humility. David Kim
Sure you can point out David Kim, but then I can point out the past couple years of SC2 balance. Maybe one guy isn't enough? Seems to me like things could have gone a lot smoother, and could go a lot better in the coming future.
Edit: Well who knows, maybe the people for the job are just really hard to find. It could also be an issue of lack of supply.
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On March 19 2013 06:10 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 06:08 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2013 06:02 CecilSunkure wrote:
Sadly doesn't sound like they have any employees that worked on or played Brood War. Explains all the headaches we've had on balance since SC2's release. I get a feeling of ego from his words "No we wouldn't dare go look at that old dusty tome". Can't we just admit that the guys that made Brood War made some golden decisions and then learn from them? I feel like some humility could go a long way.
Feels to me like an issue of "we have better tech and artists now, therefor we have better design too", when really the design skill seems to who knows where? I think the number of people who played broodwar on some sort of competitive level(that would be accepted by TL as competitive) that also have the programming/artistic/writing skills to work at Blizzard might be a very small group of people(ie, zero). Even DK has a degree in computer science along with being pretty good at games. Don't know who DK is, but I've done some professional design and balance work on a AAA RTS. Really it doesn't take a genius to come up with good decisions so much as someone that listens and has a proper sense of humility.
DK: 1. Proper Noun, an acronym refering to David Kim by shortening his name into the first letter of his first name and the first letter of his last name; see also Dakim and Dayvie.
DK: 2. Donkey-mother fucking-Kong.
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On March 19 2013 06:10 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 06:08 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2013 06:02 CecilSunkure wrote:
Sadly doesn't sound like they have any employees that worked on or played Brood War. Explains all the headaches we've had on balance since SC2's release. I get a feeling of ego from his words "No we wouldn't dare go look at that old dusty tome". Can't we just admit that the guys that made Brood War made some golden decisions and then learn from them? I feel like some humility could go a long way.
Feels to me like an issue of "we have better tech and artists now, therefor we have better design too", when really the design skill seems to who knows where? I think the number of people who played broodwar on some sort of competitive level(that would be accepted by TL as competitive) that also have the programming/artistic/writing skills to work at Blizzard might be a very small group of people(ie, zero). Even DK has a degree in computer science along with being pretty good at games. Don't know who DK is, but I've done some professional design and balance work on a AAA RTS. Really it doesn't take a genius to come up with good decisions so much as someone that listens and has a proper sense of humility.
I think it is a lot easier balance and design a game in hindsight sight. You should go back and read the reviews for WoL when they came out and how “basic” WoL was. Brad Shoemaker from Giant Bomb said it best “It was like Blizzard game in and said ‘Forget all that stupid shit you were doing with RTS games for 10 years. We did it right the first time and we did it best. Now you get more of that.” Compaired to other RTS games, who were all trying to "improve" RTS games, Blizzard took it back to what made BW great and this blew the mind of most of the “normal” gaming world. The part that really blew peoples minds was how much people loved it and wanted to watch people play it.
TL is kind of an insular community of very competitive game players. 95% of my friends in real life will never play SC2 multiplayer, ever, but they love the single player. Blizzard proved to the larger gaming world(reviewers, stock holders) that people like hard, competitive games. But to the people on TL, Blizzard only proved to them what they already knew.
So I can see why the idea “we should make it just like BW” did not take off in the meeting. Hell, I am sure they fought over if queen injects should be automatic. The idea that they aren’t still blows most of my friends minds.
Also, David Kim, head of balance.
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On March 19 2013 06:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 06:02 CecilSunkure wrote:
Sadly doesn't sound like they have any employees that worked on or played Brood War. Explains all the headaches we've had on balance since SC2's release. I get a feeling of ego from his words "No we wouldn't dare go look at that old dusty tome". Can't we just admit that the guys that made Brood War made some golden decisions and then learn from them? I feel like some humility could go a long way.
Feels to me like an issue of "we have better tech and artists now, therefor we have better design too", when really the design skill seems to who knows where? I think the number of people who played broodwar on some sort of competitive level(that would be accepted by TL as competitive) that also have the programming/artistic/writing skills to work at Blizzard might be a very small group of people(ie, zero). Even DK has a degree in computer science along with being pretty good at games.
Rob Pardo is a VP now but I don't know how knowledgeable he is about the scene that eventually developed.
Some of us aren't even looking at a player who played at a competitive level. Somebody who had some understanding of the scene and an eagerness to learn was enough. BW in Korea was big enough that it was watched by people who never played it. I stopped following BW from around 2003-2008, never played it after I started following it again, yet I felt that they didn't really understand the BW scene that developed. Their original design for WoL was wildly off the mark. HotS should have been what WoL was from release date if they just paid even the tiniest bit of attention.
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On March 19 2013 06:16 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 06:14 Grovbolle wrote:On March 19 2013 06:10 CecilSunkure wrote:On March 19 2013 06:08 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2013 06:02 CecilSunkure wrote:
Sadly doesn't sound like they have any employees that worked on or played Brood War. Explains all the headaches we've had on balance since SC2's release. I get a feeling of ego from his words "No we wouldn't dare go look at that old dusty tome". Can't we just admit that the guys that made Brood War made some golden decisions and then learn from them? I feel like some humility could go a long way.
Feels to me like an issue of "we have better tech and artists now, therefor we have better design too", when really the design skill seems to who knows where? I think the number of people who played broodwar on some sort of competitive level(that would be accepted by TL as competitive) that also have the programming/artistic/writing skills to work at Blizzard might be a very small group of people(ie, zero). Even DK has a degree in computer science along with being pretty good at games. Don't know who DK is, but I've done some professional design and balance work on a AAA RTS. Really it doesn't take a genius to come up with good decisions so much as someone that listens and has a proper sense of humility. David Kim Sure you can point out David Kim, but then I can point out the past couple years of SC2 balance. Maybe one guy isn't enough? Seems to me like things could have gone a lot smoother, and could go a lot better in the coming future. Edit: Well who knows, maybe the people for the job are just really hard to find. It could also be an issue of lack of supply.
Lack of supply is the larger issue, I assume. Could you imagine trying to justify that persons salary without another skill set like programming? “So we would like to hire this guy for the balance team. He is really good at playing the previous game on a competitive level. No, no, he doesn’t program, but he has been a Korean B-teamer for Kespa team for 4 years. No, he doesn’t speak English. No, he has no computer skills beyond playing Brood War. Well, we do have another option for an English speaking player for the balance team. No, he doesn’t a degree in computer science, either.”
I am pretty sure that is how the discussion would go.
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On March 19 2013 06:02 CecilSunkure wrote:
Sadly doesn't sound like they have any employees that worked on or played Brood War. Explains all the headaches we've had on balance since SC2's release. I get a feeling of ego from his words "No we wouldn't dare go look at that old dusty tome".
Funny you'd say that, because Chris Sigaty was head of quality assurance on Starcraft: Brood War.
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On March 19 2013 05:58 UndoneJin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 05:49 StarStruck wrote:
I find it incredibly hard to believe that they're merry coincidences. Yes abduct is great with the new medivac boosters and the fact the viper can actually fly so there's a bit more to it. The good news is Blizzard got the memo about incorporating more defensive units and now we have several that have more versatility. Seriously, why not just admit they should have made a game that mirrored BW more from beginning?
because it would mean admitting failure and ignorance on dustin browders part, something a man with his experience wouldn't be fond of doing
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On March 19 2013 06:02 CecilSunkure wrote:
Sadly doesn't sound like they have any employees that worked on or played Brood War. Explains all the headaches we've had on balance since SC2's release. I get a feeling of ego from his words "No we wouldn't dare go look at that old dusty tome". Can't we just admit that the guys that made Brood War made some golden decisions and then learn from them? I feel like some humility could go a long way.
Feels to me like an issue of "we have better tech and artists now, therefor we have better design too", when really the balance/design skill seems to be who knows where.
Blizzard still have many of people who worked on BW. People who worked on BW are mostly the core people of Blizzard Irvine actually such as Rob Pardo but the team can't remain the same. People moved in their positions. Oh and I think the mentality "trying to see what area SC2 lacks and focus on it" they have is better than "trying to look at BW and copy from it". I seriously wouldn't buy SC2 if it was released as BW in hd.
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after read it, I can't help but feel CS was the responsible of the bad side in WoL
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EPT
