EPTEDIT : With HOTS being out, The guide is no longer viable : the openings can't handle things like oracle or some MSC push, and the no-viking play has a really hard time versus tempests. It'll probably take time but i'll do a new guide for HOTS !
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Hi Everyone, I am Lyyna, a french terran playing at high master Level. Since one year and an half, i’m meching in something like 90% of my games including TvP. After getting involved in some discussions here on TL about TvP mech, some people convinced me to write a guide about my gameplay . . . so, here we go.
Some additionals info :
+ Show Spoiler +
-The guide won't be really specific about timings and stuffs like that. The first version will probably be horrible, but I'm focused on improving and updating it for a long time, adding questions/answers, FPVODS and replays, but the “True guide” will be the questions/answers and FPVODs.
-I’m not a pro, and even if i hope to reach the top, i know that i’m not a super-Gosu GSL player. What i’ll be talking about is MY gameplay, this is not a definitive guide about mech in TvP or a ‘how to easily win with mech’ guide. This is just the story of how I like to play.
-I know my style is boring to watch and/or face, but i don't really care about it. I play to win, not to give fun to my opponent . . .
-I know a lot of people will be randomly bashing me about how a noob I am, how it is impossible to mech in TvP, etc etc. Even maybe attacking me personally (Don’t waste your time then : i don’t care about it), maybe to show how good they’re at analyzing strategy regardless of their bronze league, maybe just because some pros said mech isn’t good in TvP and they think they look intelligent by doing ‘like pros’. I don’t give a fuck about this, people are bashing me since i started meching and turtling.
So, the only advice I can give you, as a warning, is just read it if you're interested by learning how i get involved in mech, how I usually managed to win my TvP, but please, don't read it just to insult me after, it doesn't worth it.
-I’m not a pro, and even if i hope to reach the top, i know that i’m not a super-Gosu GSL player. What i’ll be talking about is MY gameplay, this is not a definitive guide about mech in TvP or a ‘how to easily win with mech’ guide. This is just the story of how I like to play.
-I know my style is boring to watch and/or face, but i don't really care about it. I play to win, not to give fun to my opponent . . .
-I know a lot of people will be randomly bashing me about how a noob I am, how it is impossible to mech in TvP, etc etc. Even maybe attacking me personally (Don’t waste your time then : i don’t care about it), maybe to show how good they’re at analyzing strategy regardless of their bronze league, maybe just because some pros said mech isn’t good in TvP and they think they look intelligent by doing ‘like pros’. I don’t give a fuck about this, people are bashing me since i started meching and turtling.
So, the only advice I can give you, as a warning, is just read it if you're interested by learning how i get involved in mech, how I usually managed to win my TvP, but please, don't read it just to insult me after, it doesn't worth it.
How did i get involved into mech, and why did i choose to keep using it even with all these nerfs?
+ Show Spoiler +
Well, one year and an half ago, when i was a poor noob realizing that Terran was imba before all these nerfs Blizzard did, i was trying to find a way to play and win most of my games (like everyone i guess). The problem being that i’m basically a slow player, without many actions per minutes, and even if now my multitasking and micro aren’t that bad, at this time it was impossible for me to do more than two things at once, and splitting marines was the most painful thing ever. . . And at some point i nearly gave up . . . But one day,i discovered somebody who changed my conception of the game : The PanzerGeneral, Goody, with his pure mech style in every matchup. Goody, with his low APM and genius game sense. Goody, rollin’ on everybody hatin’ him.
He made me realize many things which don't take part of the "common sc2 sense" :
-You don’t have to have 250 APM to be good.
-The mainstream strategy isn’t the only good one.
-If you want to play in a different way, don’t give a fuck about people who keep saying “You noob this is not possible go mass MMM lol”.
Once i realized that, i started to mech in kinda every game. I also tried a lot of differents strats (like SkyTerran, Marauder/Tank vP, etc). And i got higher and higher in the ladder, rolling on protoss in macro games.
But well, I was still not really satisfied with my TvP mech style. Especially because of something i kept hearing everywhere... Some things like “You need to push in order to..”, “You can’t push because …”, “Pushing like that is really dangerous”, "expanding this late will make your push weak". . . And i thinked about these things Goody made me realize . . and suddenly: “He wait ! What do i play like if i HAVE to push? Why can’t i just turtle, abusing the fact i got the best army if allowed to secure a good defensive position, along with some of the best defensive tools in the game . . . .”. My new playstyle was born.
I started to do it in TvT . . . using slow tanks line movements, going forwards step by step . . . getting loads of tanks and vikings and BC . . . never doing any big moves . . . only securing positions, bases, securing my flanks with turrets, securing the middle of the map, moving every tank one at a time securing everything with sensor towers, watching that mad bio player dying to my huge metal army.
Then i started to do it in TvZ . . . abusing the power of tanks, thors,ravens,and BC to handle everything. . . Same things again, secure position with tanks , get sensors towers, move tanks forward a bit, moar sensor towers, mass ravens and BC , etc etc . .. and start to go in the other half on the map at like 35 minutes . . . Fighting mass expo from the Z with mass expo and mass orbitals for me . . . Abusing the power of a mech/air army.
And here we come. In TvP.
-Camping in TvP ? Are you Crazy?
Maybe. But well, i was also tired of always hearing “OMG push”, “OMG pressure”, “OMG move”, “OMG go ahead and kill him”. Why couldn’t i play defensive ? Well, Think about these “Goody’s rules”, and you know what happened next. From scratch, i tried to create my own TvP play, and to overcome as much issues as possible. As i said earlier,i’m a slow player. I use my head more than my hands, and that’s what allowed me to do that.
Well, i guess i can start with the guide itself . . .
First of all, my personal rule :
-As long as you’re alive,you can recover. A dead terran with a lot of money is still a dead terran. (i already won some games, for example,after being down 100 supply, just because my opponent let me macro for a few minutes while he was trying to secure his advantage..)
My ‘ironics’ rules :
-Under 20 tanks,You’re not safe.
-If you have less orbitals than tanks, something went wrong.
He made me realize many things which don't take part of the "common sc2 sense" :
-You don’t have to have 250 APM to be good.
-The mainstream strategy isn’t the only good one.
-If you want to play in a different way, don’t give a fuck about people who keep saying “You noob this is not possible go mass MMM lol”.
Once i realized that, i started to mech in kinda every game. I also tried a lot of differents strats (like SkyTerran, Marauder/Tank vP, etc). And i got higher and higher in the ladder, rolling on protoss in macro games.
But well, I was still not really satisfied with my TvP mech style. Especially because of something i kept hearing everywhere... Some things like “You need to push in order to..”, “You can’t push because …”, “Pushing like that is really dangerous”, "expanding this late will make your push weak". . . And i thinked about these things Goody made me realize . . and suddenly: “He wait ! What do i play like if i HAVE to push? Why can’t i just turtle, abusing the fact i got the best army if allowed to secure a good defensive position, along with some of the best defensive tools in the game . . . .”. My new playstyle was born.
I started to do it in TvT . . . using slow tanks line movements, going forwards step by step . . . getting loads of tanks and vikings and BC . . . never doing any big moves . . . only securing positions, bases, securing my flanks with turrets, securing the middle of the map, moving every tank one at a time securing everything with sensor towers, watching that mad bio player dying to my huge metal army.
Then i started to do it in TvZ . . . abusing the power of tanks, thors,ravens,and BC to handle everything. . . Same things again, secure position with tanks , get sensors towers, move tanks forward a bit, moar sensor towers, mass ravens and BC , etc etc . .. and start to go in the other half on the map at like 35 minutes . . . Fighting mass expo from the Z with mass expo and mass orbitals for me . . . Abusing the power of a mech/air army.
And here we come. In TvP.
-Camping in TvP ? Are you Crazy?
Maybe. But well, i was also tired of always hearing “OMG push”, “OMG pressure”, “OMG move”, “OMG go ahead and kill him”. Why couldn’t i play defensive ? Well, Think about these “Goody’s rules”, and you know what happened next. From scratch, i tried to create my own TvP play, and to overcome as much issues as possible. As i said earlier,i’m a slow player. I use my head more than my hands, and that’s what allowed me to do that.
Well, i guess i can start with the guide itself . . .
First of all, my personal rule :
-As long as you’re alive,you can recover. A dead terran with a lot of money is still a dead terran. (i already won some games, for example,after being down 100 supply, just because my opponent let me macro for a few minutes while he was trying to secure his advantage..)
My ‘ironics’ rules :
-Under 20 tanks,You’re not safe.
-If you have less orbitals than tanks, something went wrong.
General Macro play Guide - Openings, midgame, lategame
+ Show Spoiler +
Openings and Early game
+ Show Spoiler +
Openings with mech can be really tricky. You have to pick an opening that allows you to get an expansion not too late, you also need to be as safe as possible, and you also need to be able to transition into mech AND into others strats (for metagaming, reaction to some specifics counter-builds,etc).
My openings are :
-111 Expo. I basically use Warden’s one, so i suggest you to look at his really good guide ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232753 ). I also suggest day9's daily on TvP mech, he's talking about 111 cloakshee expo.
-1 rax double gas expo. basically a 1 rax FE, with a faster teching.
The bo is roughly :
-12 Rax
-between 16 and 18 Double Gas
-Around 21 : CC
-Factory when possible
-Get a reactor on rax after Factory
Then you rush for cloaked banshee as fast as possible. Also add armory as soon as possible (basically while getting the first banshee), start Thor and +1 armor (i’ll talk about that later). (I’ll not do the exact build orders,as it changes due to scouting. Refers to replay for exact builds).
-Reactor Rax expo.
-12 Rax
-13 (or 14) Gas
-Reactor after 1 marine, then refers to the previous Build =)
A bit safer, but slower teching (delay by 1 minute).
Fact-Tank-CC (Thorzain's opening versus Tyler in TSL3)
12 Rax , produce marines until 4 , then reactor on rax (usually just after CC)
13 Gas
Factory
Bunker
Techlab on fact
1 Tank
CC
Good opening getting a CC around 5:30 and can defend most cheeses,but its CRITICAL to keep your scouting scv alive, as its your only scouting thing
Others builds are possible (reactor hellion, etc) but i don’t use these. Basically every BO can lead to mech as long as you don't commit too much to rax tech. (in fact even 2 rax pressure can be a really good opening to transition into some GhostMech)
Early games can be hard to handle, even if the current metagame is basically all about Fast expand with light pressure, so in most cases a bunker will keep you alive from that pressure. So let’s talk about 1 base stuff
As i said, for the 111, please refere to Warden’s guide.
With the 1 rax reactor expo and the 1 rax double gas expo, It’ll be tricky to handle some things. The answer to all these things is basically the same:
-If you can scout something allin-ish is coming (like seeing proxy), i suggest to cancel your CC, and 3/1/1 in answer to their retarded cheese. You’ll have delayed tanks and banshee, but a huge number of marines, and there is nothing a protoss can do while doing a 1 base cheese to handle that.
-You know he isn’t fast expanding (second fast gas, adding gates,etc). Don’t cancel your CC, as it may be some 3 gate expo, 2 gate robo expo, etc . . . Usually these opens are aimed to defend, but if he push, you’ll probably need a second bunker to hold. Pull a good number (10-15) of scv to defend, and turtle until you get some tech-heavy units (so basically your first banshee).
I can’t give a lots of details about it, as it could vary a lot depending on maps, scouting’s luck,etc . . . There is a lot of personal experience involved in that. So . . Refer to replays :D.
So, to summarise :
-Safest build is the 111 expo, Greediest is the 1 rax double gas expo, 1 rax reactor exp is in between but delays tech a lot.
-Tech for cloaked (optional) banshees and thors as fast as possible (imo this is the safest,and it'll help for midgame).
My openings are :
-111 Expo. I basically use Warden’s one, so i suggest you to look at his really good guide ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232753 ). I also suggest day9's daily on TvP mech, he's talking about 111 cloakshee expo.
-1 rax double gas expo. basically a 1 rax FE, with a faster teching.
The bo is roughly :
-12 Rax
-between 16 and 18 Double Gas
-Around 21 : CC
-Factory when possible
-Get a reactor on rax after Factory
Then you rush for cloaked banshee as fast as possible. Also add armory as soon as possible (basically while getting the first banshee), start Thor and +1 armor (i’ll talk about that later). (I’ll not do the exact build orders,as it changes due to scouting. Refers to replay for exact builds).
-Reactor Rax expo.
-12 Rax
-13 (or 14) Gas
-Reactor after 1 marine, then refers to the previous Build =)
A bit safer, but slower teching (delay by 1 minute).
Fact-Tank-CC (Thorzain's opening versus Tyler in TSL3)
12 Rax , produce marines until 4 , then reactor on rax (usually just after CC)
13 Gas
Factory
Bunker
Techlab on fact
1 Tank
CC
Good opening getting a CC around 5:30 and can defend most cheeses,but its CRITICAL to keep your scouting scv alive, as its your only scouting thing
Others builds are possible (reactor hellion, etc) but i don’t use these. Basically every BO can lead to mech as long as you don't commit too much to rax tech. (in fact even 2 rax pressure can be a really good opening to transition into some GhostMech)
Early games can be hard to handle, even if the current metagame is basically all about Fast expand with light pressure, so in most cases a bunker will keep you alive from that pressure. So let’s talk about 1 base stuff
As i said, for the 111, please refere to Warden’s guide.
With the 1 rax reactor expo and the 1 rax double gas expo, It’ll be tricky to handle some things. The answer to all these things is basically the same:
-If you can scout something allin-ish is coming (like seeing proxy), i suggest to cancel your CC, and 3/1/1 in answer to their retarded cheese. You’ll have delayed tanks and banshee, but a huge number of marines, and there is nothing a protoss can do while doing a 1 base cheese to handle that.
-You know he isn’t fast expanding (second fast gas, adding gates,etc). Don’t cancel your CC, as it may be some 3 gate expo, 2 gate robo expo, etc . . . Usually these opens are aimed to defend, but if he push, you’ll probably need a second bunker to hold. Pull a good number (10-15) of scv to defend, and turtle until you get some tech-heavy units (so basically your first banshee).
I can’t give a lots of details about it, as it could vary a lot depending on maps, scouting’s luck,etc . . . There is a lot of personal experience involved in that. So . . Refer to replays :D.
So, to summarise :
-Safest build is the 111 expo, Greediest is the 1 rax double gas expo, 1 rax reactor exp is in between but delays tech a lot.
-Tech for cloaked (optional) banshees and thors as fast as possible (imo this is the safest,and it'll help for midgame).
-Midgame, or how to handle REALLY painful things
+ Show Spoiler +
Ok, so now, you are alive, you have 2 bases, getting thors and banshee and marines, around 10 minutes. You do have
-1 Armory researching +1 armor
-1 reactored rax
-1 techlabbed Factory
-1 techlabbed Starport finishing cloak
http://imgur.com/PUDmb
First thor out, defending a 6 gate with my 2nd banshee,marines and scv . . while my 1st banshee is having fun in his base
You’re safe versus these funny 2 bases immortal/sentry busts or 6 gates which can come around this timing. With a wall and mass repair, thor/marine/banshee can handle everything. I’ve sometimes even hold 6 gate just with 1 bunker, my marines (you should have a good number of these at that time), 1 banshee and 10 scv. . . Yes,without the thor. Forgot him in my base like a boss. And my first banshee killed 20 probes in his base during the fight
Look for harass’s opportunities with your banshees. It allows you to
-Pick up probes (obvious)
-Force observers (waste of supply and robotic’s production time)
-Force him to keep units at home (For each banshee, he need at least 2 stalkers and 1 obs. Supply-wise it’s really good).
Sometimes you can even snipe an important building (forge, robo, tech building . .). So be active with these!
The banshees' goal isn't really to do direct damage, but mainly to stress him.
When possible, Replace your rax with a 2nd factory, get hellions. Blue flame timing depends of your gas allocation,and of his zealot’s number, but it's ok to delay it. Same with +1 attack or +2 armor choice (refer below for “What to choose"). You need to scout his composition a lot to see what he’s getting and adapting (You think you need mules? Remember the Fucking Ultimate Rulz.).
Adapt your third timing to his own.
In midgame, you have to decide between going ghost-less mech or a ghost Mech army. Basically the ghost-less allows you to get a huge mech army early, with a HUGE number of hellions and tanks while the ghostMech army will be a bit weaker until you get your ghosts count up, and delay your additional factories.
GhostMech Followup :
+ Show Spoiler +
Ghostless follow up :
+ Show Spoiler +
Check questions section for some ghostless/ghostmech answers
-1 Armory researching +1 armor
-1 reactored rax
-1 techlabbed Factory
-1 techlabbed Starport finishing cloak
http://imgur.com/PUDmb
First thor out, defending a 6 gate with my 2nd banshee,marines and scv . . while my 1st banshee is having fun in his base
You’re safe versus these funny 2 bases immortal/sentry busts or 6 gates which can come around this timing. With a wall and mass repair, thor/marine/banshee can handle everything. I’ve sometimes even hold 6 gate just with 1 bunker, my marines (you should have a good number of these at that time), 1 banshee and 10 scv. . . Yes,without the thor. Forgot him in my base like a boss. And my first banshee killed 20 probes in his base during the fight
Look for harass’s opportunities with your banshees. It allows you to
-Pick up probes (obvious)
-Force observers (waste of supply and robotic’s production time)
-Force him to keep units at home (For each banshee, he need at least 2 stalkers and 1 obs. Supply-wise it’s really good).
Sometimes you can even snipe an important building (forge, robo, tech building . .). So be active with these!
The banshees' goal isn't really to do direct damage, but mainly to stress him.
When possible, Replace your rax with a 2nd factory, get hellions. Blue flame timing depends of your gas allocation,and of his zealot’s number, but it's ok to delay it. Same with +1 attack or +2 armor choice (refer below for “What to choose"). You need to scout his composition a lot to see what he’s getting and adapting (You think you need mules? Remember the Fucking Ultimate Rulz.).
Adapt your third timing to his own.
In midgame, you have to decide between going ghost-less mech or a ghost Mech army. Basically the ghost-less allows you to get a huge mech army early, with a HUGE number of hellions and tanks while the ghostMech army will be a bit weaker until you get your ghosts count up, and delay your additional factories.
GhostMech Followup :
+ Show Spoiler +
Basically, you need to get, between 10 and 14 minutes :
-Your 3rd CC
-2 More Fact (bringing you to 4) (staying on 3 facts is OK if you want to do some lategame-oriented ghostmech play)
-Ghost academy
-Second mech uppgrade finished (+2 armor or +1 attack)
-A raven
Note that you'll often get a HUGE mineral bank around that 10 min timing. Don't worry,it's normal, it'll kickly disappear when you start to get 3rd, ghosts,hellions and more factory at once
When getting your 3rd, start producing tanks,research siege mode (and BF after it if not already done). You should have a nicely sized army with 3 or 4 thors, hellions,marines, cloaked banshees . . . and now adding ghosts and tanks too.
Start to add sensor towers, turrets rings and macro orbitals (which allows for MOAR ORBITALS §§)
Something really painful that can happen mid game is late 2 bases allin. It can be chargelot/archon, immortal/Chargelot, Stalker/colossus/archon,etc . . . Basically, versus these, you need to
-Continually poke with banshees. You see there is no third? then just force him to choose between getting a shitload of cannons to leave his base, or going totally allin without any income because all his probes get picked.
The main trick is to scout this. You can’t hold it in open area, but it’s insanely easy to do so when you’re at your natural, with a supply/CC/bunker wall, with 20 scv repairing.
At that point, you need to start adding fact, some starports and barracks, macros CC, planetary fortress middle map, and your 4th . . (usually while taking my 4th, i have my natural and main CC, a PF at my 3rd, and 2 macro orbitals). Of course always get units before adding buildings
At that point,you’re mainly getting tanks out of your factory.
I suggest to watch replays for midgame fights. Usually a smart protoss will avoid to attack. No problem, we want to avoid fights too. If he try to attack. . well, you have sensor towers every where, so just prepare the battlefield : get walls, Siege, put PDD down, hellions in front of everything, EMP, Focus fire stalkers and colossus with tanks,snipe obs with thors, … ?, Profite. Cloakshee are the key here, as he can't 'win' totally a fight as long as you snipe obs with your thors before banshees start to die
-Your 3rd CC
-2 More Fact (bringing you to 4) (staying on 3 facts is OK if you want to do some lategame-oriented ghostmech play)
-Ghost academy
-Second mech uppgrade finished (+2 armor or +1 attack)
-A raven
Note that you'll often get a HUGE mineral bank around that 10 min timing. Don't worry,it's normal, it'll kickly disappear when you start to get 3rd, ghosts,hellions and more factory at once
When getting your 3rd, start producing tanks,research siege mode (and BF after it if not already done). You should have a nicely sized army with 3 or 4 thors, hellions,marines, cloaked banshees . . . and now adding ghosts and tanks too.
Start to add sensor towers, turrets rings and macro orbitals (which allows for MOAR ORBITALS §§)
Something really painful that can happen mid game is late 2 bases allin. It can be chargelot/archon, immortal/Chargelot, Stalker/colossus/archon,etc . . . Basically, versus these, you need to
-Continually poke with banshees. You see there is no third? then just force him to choose between getting a shitload of cannons to leave his base, or going totally allin without any income because all his probes get picked.
The main trick is to scout this. You can’t hold it in open area, but it’s insanely easy to do so when you’re at your natural, with a supply/CC/bunker wall, with 20 scv repairing.
At that point, you need to start adding fact, some starports and barracks, macros CC, planetary fortress middle map, and your 4th . . (usually while taking my 4th, i have my natural and main CC, a PF at my 3rd, and 2 macro orbitals). Of course always get units before adding buildings
At that point,you’re mainly getting tanks out of your factory.
I suggest to watch replays for midgame fights. Usually a smart protoss will avoid to attack. No problem, we want to avoid fights too. If he try to attack. . well, you have sensor towers every where, so just prepare the battlefield : get walls, Siege, put PDD down, hellions in front of everything, EMP, Focus fire stalkers and colossus with tanks,snipe obs with thors, … ?, Profite. Cloakshee are the key here, as he can't 'win' totally a fight as long as you snipe obs with your thors before banshees start to die
Ghostless follow up :
+ Show Spoiler +
Between 10 and 14 minutes, you need to get
-Second armory to get +2 armor, get +1 attack on the first one
-Going to 5 Factories (2 reactored, 3 techlabbed)
-3rd CC
-Dat Raven
-Second armory to get +2 armor, get +1 attack on the first one
-Going to 5 Factories (2 reactored, 3 techlabbed)
-3rd CC
-Dat Raven
Check questions section for some ghostless/ghostmech answers
-Lategame
+ Show Spoiler +
Ok so now, you should have
-4 bases, 5th ready to go
-PF at 3th and 4th and most maps, 4 Orbitals
-Sensor towers everywhere
If you went ghostless and still dont have ghosts, just add the academy and one or two more rax to not be caught unprepared
Start to add more starports. Usually i do have 3 barracks, 2 reactored fact, 5 techlabbed fact, and 2 techlabbed starports. So just add 3 techlabbed starport, fusion core, and . . . let’s the game begin !
I also often choose to add a second armory,to rush 3/3 for air (usually i'm 2/3 with mech at that point)
Now you can go into serious shit. Basically, You are aiming to get your DoomBallz (check below)
-Banshees and vikings : Ok, so basically BC are better in most situations ,especially with ravens , but sometimes you cant get them (not enough gas, cant afford to sac supply or wait for BC to come out , forgetting fusion core like a retard,etc), so you’ll have to get these. Vikings aren’t that bad versus protoss air, and banshees are really good in every situation.
Continue massing orbitals,sensor, production facilities, etc . . .
What? What do i hear? “When do you push?” ? Ahahah, good joke. The answer is simple : NEVER. Well, of course that’s kind of an exageration, you’ll sometimes push . . after defending 3 waves of super costly T3 units ,when he doesn’t have any ressources left . . .
To summarize...
+ Show Spoiler +
My standard macro Play
-Thorzain Opening's (12 rax 13 gas, factory, stop marines prod at 4, get 1 tank, 5:30 CC)
-Reactor on rax, get starport and armory
-Get 1 raven, thors, banshees, +1 mech armor, ghost tech
-Add 3rd, go to 1 rax , 3/4 fact (1 reactor), 1 port, getting thors (~~4 is enough), Tanks, BFhellions, Banshees, ghosts
-When it's safe to move out, move and expand, when not possible, add macro CC's.
-If you start to bank gas, or protoss goes too passive (or try to switch to air), get your own air army. Ravens with SM and BCs
-Aim for a Ghosts (8-12 is a good number), Ravens (4-8), BCs and tanks (as much as possible of both, depends of his own army), with a few Thors (4 is a really good number) and BFhellions for support.
My 1/3/1 2 bases Push
-1 rax reactor FE (13 or 14 gas, reactor after 1st marine)
-Add 2 fact, 1 reactor 1 TL, get marine/tank/hellion, get Blue Flame, secure your nat
-When your expand is mining (go to 4 gas fact!), add a Starport and 1 TL fact
Get a raven, Then banshees, hellions, Tanks. Get siege tech
Push when you see him getting his 3rd, Pull 6-10 scv to repair rally your prod to your army (you should get 2 marines, 2 hellions,2 tanks, 1 banshee at once).
You need to siege a few tanks at a time, dont overextend, you need to be really careful. Micro your marines/hellions to avoid getting them killed to fast ,focus colossus/HT with your tanks and banshees, and if you feel you are in a good spot, you can send your reinforcing hellions in his nat/main in order to force him to split his reprod.
I suggest to look at my replays for this one
Units, uppgrades,and useless stuff like that
+ Show Spoiler +
Units :
-Marine : Shitty unit that you'll only use in early game to defend your base. Dunno why some people try to make more than 10 of them in a game while spending 100 gas on stim (That's the cost of one uber-good banshee !)
-Ghost : 40% hp of the protoss army instantly removed, and really good with cloak + obs snipe. But forces you to rely on their energy/count, especially early game. Great harass lategame with nuke
-Hellion : Your "all-purpose" unit. In defense, they are used to deflect harass, hunt for proxy pylons and stuff like that. In offense, they give you a great map control and pressure ability, allowing you to pick probes, HTs, deal some free damage to non-colossus army. In combat,they destroy chargelots really fast,and in large numbers/uppgrades, trade really well with stalkers. They're also a great meathshield.
-Tank : Big fucking guy with big fucking guns, aka glass cannon unit. They do a lot of AOE damages and have insane range. Both in defense and offense, they're used to "zone" the protoss army, basically making some areas deadly for him, making any hesitating engagement or gosu colossus poke REALLY painful, and shredding all his units. Get a good number of them, especially if he's low on chargelots or once you get a big number of air units
-Thor : Even bigger guys with bigger guns. Basically, your "direct combat" unit. In defense (especially early game), they can hold everything with mass repair, especialy with a +1 armor rush. In offense, they basically offer a big buffer for your tanks, taking a lots of damage while easily clearing his chargelots (and everything else in fact). Have at least 4 of them, and add some if he's going heavy on chargelots. Obs sniper too
-Banshees : They're here to drive the protoss mad. they fly everywhere, sniping pylons, probes, units, tech building, nexuses, and are insane in fights. Basically , they allows you to win most midgame fights (or , in worst case, trade in a cost effective way ) by sniping any obs with your thors and then enjoying the dps of these sky maidens. So basically, Harass/Heavy damage unit
-BC : 'nuff said. Big starships dealing a lot of damage to everything, direct counter to carriers/colossus/Anything in fact.
You should add as much BCs as possible, at leat until you get like 8 of them. Then add more again if he's going heavy carriers/colossus (they destroys carriers and dont care about colossus).
-Raven : Imba unit allowing you to do some harass (turrets), blocking areas (turrets), protecting your army (turrets), killing 50 stalkers while loosing exactly 0 supply (pdd), destroying any air unit in the area (HSM). Make sure to always have 1 in midgame, add a few more in lategame (4 is a good number), and power on these if he's going heavy air (especially void rays. If carriers, get BCs first)
-Vikings : emergency AA unit. You'll usually need one to fight warp prisms play. The only reason to get them is a late-scouted air switch
Uppgrades :
-Siege tech : Get it while getting your tanks (so usually while taking ur 3rd)
-Blue Flame : You can delay it until needed, but i'll usually get it before siege mode, once my 2 bases infrastructure is set.
-Strike Cannon : I used to never get it , but i realized that it's really good to get it in late midgame, as it allows your thors to easily wins situation like 4 thors versus 4 colosses (at the end of a big fight for example) and things like it.
-Banshee Cloak: nuff said
-Ravens uppgrades : get seeker missile first, then energy, then spell duration. Get these when you start to have good amounts of gas or when you see air switch
-Yamato : Same thing
-Ghost Uppgrade : Get cloak when you can afford it (usually on 3 bases). Energy can be delayed
-Marine : Shitty unit that you'll only use in early game to defend your base. Dunno why some people try to make more than 10 of them in a game while spending 100 gas on stim (That's the cost of one uber-good banshee !)
-Ghost : 40% hp of the protoss army instantly removed, and really good with cloak + obs snipe. But forces you to rely on their energy/count, especially early game. Great harass lategame with nuke
-Hellion : Your "all-purpose" unit. In defense, they are used to deflect harass, hunt for proxy pylons and stuff like that. In offense, they give you a great map control and pressure ability, allowing you to pick probes, HTs, deal some free damage to non-colossus army. In combat,they destroy chargelots really fast,and in large numbers/uppgrades, trade really well with stalkers. They're also a great meathshield.
-Tank : Big fucking guy with big fucking guns, aka glass cannon unit. They do a lot of AOE damages and have insane range. Both in defense and offense, they're used to "zone" the protoss army, basically making some areas deadly for him, making any hesitating engagement or gosu colossus poke REALLY painful, and shredding all his units. Get a good number of them, especially if he's low on chargelots or once you get a big number of air units
-Thor : Even bigger guys with bigger guns. Basically, your "direct combat" unit. In defense (especially early game), they can hold everything with mass repair, especialy with a +1 armor rush. In offense, they basically offer a big buffer for your tanks, taking a lots of damage while easily clearing his chargelots (and everything else in fact). Have at least 4 of them, and add some if he's going heavy on chargelots. Obs sniper too
-Banshees : They're here to drive the protoss mad. they fly everywhere, sniping pylons, probes, units, tech building, nexuses, and are insane in fights. Basically , they allows you to win most midgame fights (or , in worst case, trade in a cost effective way ) by sniping any obs with your thors and then enjoying the dps of these sky maidens. So basically, Harass/Heavy damage unit
-BC : 'nuff said. Big starships dealing a lot of damage to everything, direct counter to carriers/colossus/Anything in fact.
You should add as much BCs as possible, at leat until you get like 8 of them. Then add more again if he's going heavy carriers/colossus (they destroys carriers and dont care about colossus).
-Raven : Imba unit allowing you to do some harass (turrets), blocking areas (turrets), protecting your army (turrets), killing 50 stalkers while loosing exactly 0 supply (pdd), destroying any air unit in the area (HSM). Make sure to always have 1 in midgame, add a few more in lategame (4 is a good number), and power on these if he's going heavy air (especially void rays. If carriers, get BCs first)
-Vikings : emergency AA unit. You'll usually need one to fight warp prisms play. The only reason to get them is a late-scouted air switch
Uppgrades :
-Siege tech : Get it while getting your tanks (so usually while taking ur 3rd)
-Blue Flame : You can delay it until needed, but i'll usually get it before siege mode, once my 2 bases infrastructure is set.
-Strike Cannon : I used to never get it , but i realized that it's really good to get it in late midgame, as it allows your thors to easily wins situation like 4 thors versus 4 colosses (at the end of a big fight for example) and things like it.
-Banshee Cloak: nuff said
-Ravens uppgrades : get seeker missile first, then energy, then spell duration. Get these when you start to have good amounts of gas or when you see air switch
-Yamato : Same thing
-Ghost Uppgrade : Get cloak when you can afford it (usually on 3 bases). Energy can be delayed
-Questions, How to, FAQ, all that stuff
Play when you're behind >> VOD 002 for complete answer
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1- Stabilize. Grab the lost position/expansion, and secure your stuff
2- Preparing for the follow-up. Check his tech/army, so you can adapt to what he's going to have to fight (as you'll have limited ressources if you're behind, you cant go for a general purpose army)
3- Check his economy to know if you should be greedy yourself or not
Handle midgames fights before you start to get BC/Raven,and before you have a good enough amount of tanks?
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At some points, i was having a problem winning these mid games battles, before realizing some things
-Versus 2 bases push, Easy wins can be collected by just retreating to your natural and turtling there. Enjoy 20 vcs repairing your wall.
-Banshees. They’re the key,why? because as long as you snipe obs with thors, you can’t LOSE a battle. The worst result is that you loose everything except banshees,and he looses everything. He can’t push in your bases because they do insane damage, and he can’t reprod immortals/colossus. He has to spam chronoboost on observers,and to hide his freshly-produced army until obs are here.
-Versus 2 bases push, Easy wins can be collected by just retreating to your natural and turtling there. Enjoy 20 vcs repairing your wall.
-Banshees. They’re the key,why? because as long as you snipe obs with thors, you can’t LOSE a battle. The worst result is that you loose everything except banshees,and he looses everything. He can’t push in your bases because they do insane damage, and he can’t reprod immortals/colossus. He has to spam chronoboost on observers,and to hide his freshly-produced army until obs are here.
How to handle mass air?
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The main fear of TvP mech players. Basicaly i was inspired by my TvZ raven/tank style,where i counter mass BL/infest with ravens. For a long time,i’ve been countering mass air with mass BC, but it only works vs carriers in moderate numbers,with a ground force . . . versus pure air, you need to get Ravens. With some EMP before missile,you can make his whole force evaporate in seconds. So basically,if he’s getting mass air, go for lots of ravens,high BCs count, some thors, and keep a good tanks/ghosts counts.
How to handle mass warpins lategame? like Big zealots A move into mass Warp into bigged A mover,etc.
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Well, that’s the point of having the best defensive army in the best defensive position. If he has to use 50 zealots to kill 5 tanks , 10 hellions and 2 PF . .. . Well , I guess you got it? The whole point is basically : COST-EFFECTIVENESS.
-+2 armor or +1 Attack? And what about your air uppgrade? (Specific to early armory openings with +1 armor)
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Well, basically, if your opponent is going zealot heavy or "by default", get +2 armor. Your army already has a huge damage output, and you need to keep these costly units alive. +1 Attack might be a better choice if you're tight in gas cant cant wait for +2 armor 175 gas, or if he's getting stalkers heavy, as stalkers only attacks once (so +2 armor is less effective) and a lots of their attacks are avoided with PDD.
About your air uppgrade, you should always get attack first. (In fact I'll usually stay on 3attack/1 defense for ground while getting +3 air attack). Armor isn't that useful because his anti air will basically be denied with ravens, tanks,etc. But if ressources allows, you can add a 2nd armory and get ground armor + air attack
About your air uppgrade, you should always get attack first. (In fact I'll usually stay on 3attack/1 defense for ground while getting +3 air attack). Armor isn't that useful because his anti air will basically be denied with ravens, tanks,etc. But if ressources allows, you can add a 2nd armory and get ground armor + air attack
If i'm going ghostless midgame, when should i get ghosts?
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Well, Basically you're getting ghosts if
-You start to float ressources but going BC isn't safe (for example 3 bases versus 3 bases both maxed, but the distance between both base is too short and/or the ground is too open to set up a good defensive position)
-He's getting an heavy amount of immortals/HT/Archon (and you can still handle it without ghosts. Just safer)
-He's going air - You need ghosts to avoid storm carpets from his supporting HTs on your own air/to avoid vortex/etc
-You start to float ressources but going BC isn't safe (for example 3 bases versus 3 bases both maxed, but the distance between both base is too short and/or the ground is too open to set up a good defensive position)
-He's getting an heavy amount of immortals/HT/Archon (and you can still handle it without ghosts. Just safer)
-He's going air - You need ghosts to avoid storm carpets from his supporting HTs on your own air/to avoid vortex/etc
If the protoss is going mass colossus midgame,shoud i switch to vikngs?
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No. In fact, as he's cutting his gas-heavy anti air units to get that mass colossus army, i usually suggest to switch to BC earlier : get 1 more starport (so you're up to 3), fusion core,and enjoy his rage when he'll have like 8 stalkers versus 3 BC, 5 banshees and 2 ravens x)
Ghostless mech or ghostmech?
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Some interesting posts about it :
ZjiublingZ's one, clarifying a bit the whole problem, and adding some nice problematics
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No offense, but this thread is FULL of people 'explaining' things about Mech TvP without actually saying anything meaningful, or helping anybody improve or understand Mech vs P at all. It's like what Day9 talked about, people are saying things that don't really mean anything in Starcarft. So I will try and start a real discussion here about Mech vs P. Ghost/Mech vs Pure Mech. Here we go!!!!
I think we should be A LOT more specific about the strengths and weaknesses. I understand you will have less Fact in the mid-game when going Ghost/Mech, but what does this mean? What is the strength/weakness of this position?
Your upgrades will be slower, but you have the extra burst damage of EMP/Snipe templar. In what SPECIFIC scenarios is having the Ghosts better than the upgrades? Does it transition better to the late game? Is it better for timing attacks or aggressiveness in general? Or better at playing defensively? Or does it get even more specific than that?
Finally, what can a Meching player look for at ~10-13 (or earlier if possible) minutes to find out which style will be superior (if one really is)? WHY?
In my experience, I often find myself wishing I had gone for the other route, but not sure how I can know earlier on which is better at the time. I find Ghosts are better against immortal heavy pushes, but worse against Colossus heavy ones. It can be hard to tell which one he is going for by the time I have committed to my tech choice, and one easily transitions into the other. EMP does much more damage against Stalkers than Zealots, but once again, it is very hard for me to tell which unit he is going to be making more of. As of now, I just go Pure Mech if I scout Colossus Tech before Templar Tech, but I can't really give a solid argument for why that is 100% the correct decision to make. My thought process is basically: EMP + Snipe is good against Templar and Archons, so it's worth having them in that scenario.
I think we should be A LOT more specific about the strengths and weaknesses. I understand you will have less Fact in the mid-game when going Ghost/Mech, but what does this mean? What is the strength/weakness of this position?
Your upgrades will be slower, but you have the extra burst damage of EMP/Snipe templar. In what SPECIFIC scenarios is having the Ghosts better than the upgrades? Does it transition better to the late game? Is it better for timing attacks or aggressiveness in general? Or better at playing defensively? Or does it get even more specific than that?
Finally, what can a Meching player look for at ~10-13 (or earlier if possible) minutes to find out which style will be superior (if one really is)? WHY?
In my experience, I often find myself wishing I had gone for the other route, but not sure how I can know earlier on which is better at the time. I find Ghosts are better against immortal heavy pushes, but worse against Colossus heavy ones. It can be hard to tell which one he is going for by the time I have committed to my tech choice, and one easily transitions into the other. EMP does much more damage against Stalkers than Zealots, but once again, it is very hard for me to tell which unit he is going to be making more of. As of now, I just go Pure Mech if I scout Colossus Tech before Templar Tech, but I can't really give a solid argument for why that is 100% the correct decision to make. My thought process is basically: EMP + Snipe is good against Templar and Archons, so it's worth having them in that scenario.
My own answer on the subject
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About the Ghostless mech / GhostMech discussion
-Infrastructure :
Ghost mech will usually have a 1/3/1 with 1 armory on 2/3 bases ( i usually dont really add any production facilities on 3 bases, as you should use all your ressources with your really cost heavy units). Ghostless will usually have 1/5/1.
What does this mean? Basically, the ghostless will have a bigger number of units, earlier, and you dont rely on energy or anything : these units can instantly fight when they get on the field. You'll especially have a huge number of hellions, and you can sacrifice them to do economic or positional damage (forcing his army to move where you want him to move). The bigger amount of mech units allows you to trade with him without any big problem (consider you can get like 8 hellions and 3 thors every minute . . ).
Ghostmech will basically have less units, and will not aim at "trading" : with ghostmech , you aim at FUCKING TOTALLY ANNIHILATING his whole army with nearly no loss from your side. You cant really allows to loose everything as you'll have less facilities to reprod, and you also need time to get energy on ghosts. But as a side effect of less production , you can have more spare ressources to get a better lategame installation ( MOAR CC )
-Uppgrade
Easy here. Ghostmech will only have 1 armory (at least until the BC transition), Ghostless will have 2. Mech is cool due to the fact that, even if getting double uppgrades makes your army insanely godlike ( and allows you to not have to choose between armor and damage), single uppgrade is totally fine too.
-Combat abilities
Ghostless mech can usually fight most protoss armies well. It'll trade really well especially with the "standard" (but now a bit old school ) chargelot/stalker/colossus midgame ball : You'll loose a lots of hellions but you can replenish them fast, while increasing the size of your core thors/tanks army.
The problem comes when he's getting heavy archon/immortal/HT. Colossus and air too. All these units are relying a lot of energy/shields, and they can trade relatively well with your ghostless ball (i said RELATIVELY. contrary to what people say, for example a big immortal army will not instantly win versus your mech army, especially due to your shitload of hellions protecting your core units).
GhostMech will basically struggle because of the fact that you have to invest resources in ghost tech early in the game, meaning your army will not be as big as a ghostless one, but you'll basically have an instant ~~40% hp damage burst on his whole army as soon as you get a critical mass of ghosts (i personally think the ghost mech start to be more combat-effective once you get 4 ghosts).
So, to sum-up
Ghostmech = more for defensive style
-Weaker Until you get that critical ghost mass
-Cant really trade due to the lack of production
-Later uppgrades/slower uppgrades (you'll usually stay on 1 armory)
-More spare ressources due to less production - Allows for "bigger" lategam
-Insanely strong once you get your ghosts count
-you dont really fear any protoss composition
So basically, defensive lategame economic play, in a few words
GhostLess
-Lots of production early
-Can Trade units (and sacrifice hellions for harass)
-Double uppgrades allows you to continue to win fights even in "late midgame"
-Allows to be agressive
-Less spare ressources
-Weaker to some protoss shield/spell heavy army
-Start to loose its strength in lategame, once having the good composition to totally crush him become more important than being to just "trade well"
So basically , More midgame oriented play ,allowing you to be more agressive
Question by Yoshi Kirishima :+ Show Spoiler +
I've had trouble dealing with immortal/archon... just wondering, is ghost the right answer? Or Banshee/Air? Because I feel like with ghosts, I won't have enough EMPs to EMP them all, and if I do, then my army is like half ghosts and I don't have that huge number of tanks. I feel like Banshees are better, but just wondering about your guys' opinion... a mix, or is that inefficient? (I feel like it is... immortal/archon doesn't move as fast as zealot/stalker so you can kill some units before the engagement with banshees). Usually when they go immo/archon I don't have to worry about HTs though. Is this true or are they just not playing optimally? Are tanks/banshees not enough to deal with HTs? (sending 1 banshee or separating the banshees to snipe the HT after observer dies)
Edit: If we're nearing maxing out, that's when I start adding ghost + air (like in the 2nd video Lyyna released) if he's sticking with archon/immortal? or do I add ghosts and/or air earlier when I see that he's going for that?
Edit: If we're nearing maxing out, that's when I start adding ghost + air (like in the 2nd video Lyyna released) if he's sticking with archon/immortal? or do I add ghosts and/or air earlier when I see that he's going for that?
I don't know if you are talking about this as a 2 base all in or as a general composition, but I play against this a lot both ways against a practice partner so I'll just say what I've learned.
Ghost is definitely the right answer! Ghosts and Hellions. Hellions work perfectly against Immortals. They don't take the increased damage from Immortals (which means they only do ~13 DPS, which makes them an expensive Zealot). Hellions also do 8/9/10/11 damage, so they are almost always completely unaffected by Hardened Shield. If you have 10-13 Hellions, you can take down 2-3 Immortal Shields in one shot with focus fire. WOW. Who needs EMP? Save the EMP's for Archons, and after that I find it's best to ignore them. They really do horrible damage against Mech (for 300 gas), especially with no splash. They are only good for soaking up Siege Tank shots, so make sure your Siege Tanks are focus firing the Immortals and basically anything else first!
Other than that, just a good core army of upgraded Tanks and Thors should deal with everything fine. Engage with Hellions/Ghosts at as close to the 14 Range of Tanks as possible, EMP Archons, kite and focus fire Immortals, retreat behind Thors, and I think you will be surprised at how weak this composition actually is when dealt with this way. In fact, you can beat it with just Thor/Hellion/Ghost if it isn't supported by enough Gateway units.
As for Banshees/Air, they are always good because they complement Mech so well. And against this composition they will be at least fairly light on Stalkers because It's so gas intensive, so that always makes Banshees stronger. Archons do beat them but in big enough groups they trade very efficiently with Archons (spread so no splash). It also means (usually) they have High Templar so then there is feedback to look out for. I'd say get the Banshees if you can afford it for extra map control and harass, but they aren't going to help you in engagements so not against any all inish Protoss.
If you play this composition in the late game though, BattleCruisers become realllllly good. They aren't effected by Hardened Shield (8/9/10/11), Archons do no splash, and they give your Siege Tanks and Ghosts the forward vision to get off EMPS and Focus Fire the slow Immortals.
As for HT, if there are Archons it's possible, just means less Archons. Use your EMP's and Snipes on them, and still focus fire the Immortals with Hellions. Archons absorb a lot more EMP's or Ghost energy in general, so as long as you trust your Ghost control it's usually better to face HT IMO.
EDIT: In response to your edit, I would add Ghosts as you take your third. I don't know what opening you are doing, but the popular ones in this thread involve opening with Banshee. I would say follow the standard of getting to 4 Banshees and quitting there, move to BC's when you have the economy (4 bases). If you are worried about dying, Banshees aren't going to help you. Banshees will help you gain an advantage in a situation where you are already safe.
Question by -Joonie- :+ Show Spoiler +
I absolutely love this idea, however I don't understand the later late game, lets take antiga for example? what if youre playing macro/defensive and expanding until you realize..you have to take a 5th and 6th. How do you properly defend those expansions? You say to never push unless you do a good trade for army, but what if they disregard your main and 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th expos and just constantly deny your 5th and 6th with their 200/200 army? surely your siegeline is not long enough to cover all your bases, so what do you do at that point? Thank you!
The problem is :How do you deny these expansions ? Are you going to use something like zealots and DT warp to destroy CC and stuff like that? I'll deflect it just with PF turrets and air. So at some point if you want to deny me these bases you have to send your army there. From here different things can happen, considering i'll see you coming due to mass scan and sensor towers
-I choose to intercept your army, sieging ahead of it. Usually you'll avoid to fight
-I choose to sacrifice a base or two if i have enough economy and some spare CCs, and i destroy some of your bases, basically sending my ground army at one, my air army at another, and a few units to a last ones. And if we trade bases, ill win due to the fact i can just mass orbitals at home, while you cant really mass macro nexus . . .
-Combination of the above : i send a few units (usually ravens for turrets, ghosts for nukes, or banshees) while letting you get in my bases. While you're destroying it , i jsut get other bases while setting a good position for my army. At this point you have to choose between slowing losing your bases one at a time, or trying to break the contain you let me do.
The idea itself of denying "late" bases is ok, but the fact is that at some point, if you really want to deny these , you have to commit to it. And due to the fact i have sensor towers, mass scans, and ability to do "passive" harass with nukes/turrets means that once you commit, you're dead
-I choose to intercept your army, sieging ahead of it. Usually you'll avoid to fight
-I choose to sacrifice a base or two if i have enough economy and some spare CCs, and i destroy some of your bases, basically sending my ground army at one, my air army at another, and a few units to a last ones. And if we trade bases, ill win due to the fact i can just mass orbitals at home, while you cant really mass macro nexus . . .
-Combination of the above : i send a few units (usually ravens for turrets, ghosts for nukes, or banshees) while letting you get in my bases. While you're destroying it , i jsut get other bases while setting a good position for my army. At this point you have to choose between slowing losing your bases one at a time, or trying to break the contain you let me do.
The idea itself of denying "late" bases is ok, but the fact is that at some point, if you really want to deny these , you have to commit to it. And due to the fact i have sensor towers, mass scans, and ability to do "passive" harass with nukes/turrets means that once you commit, you're dead
Question by MockHamill :+ Show Spoiler +
How do you actually micro mech armies? When I try out Thor/Tank/Hellions in the unit tester versus Protoss armies the mech army either loses or come out just slightly ahead. Am I missing something? How do you manage to really crush Protoss late game armies with your mech army? Please explain the micro of this in detail.
Just Thor/Tank/Hellion? Against what army? The micro is, obviously, dependent on what you are facing. Thor/Tank/Hellion is really a 2 base Army so I guess I will address it as if you are facing a potential 2 base Protoss army... (Ask clearer or more specific questions next time, Mech is very undefined so there isn't some standard progression of a game I can assume you are talking about).
Against a 2 base Toss you will basically be facing 3 things, Immortal + Gateway heavy pushes. Colossus pushes with less Gateway support. And Archon/Chargelot compositions.
Immortal + Gateway push - Engage with Hellions as close as possible to the 14 range of Tanks, Focus fire Immortals with your Hellions as you kite the army through the siege line. #1 Priority for Tanks is Shieldless Immortals, then the biggest clumps of Gateway units, I prefer Zealots though I honestly can't say which is "better" because you do get Bonus Damage vs Stalkers. Once they are close and have engaged you, Thors in front, Hellions behind, and Tanks behind them. Focus fire Shieldless Immortals still, and that's about it.
Colossus push with less gateway support - Reallly bad against Mech IMO, simply because Siege Tanks > Colossus in a straight up fight. I just focus fire Colossus with my Siege Tanks, does a ton of damage because Colossus stand over Gateway units. Make sure to maximize the range difference between Colossus and Siege Tanks by keeping vision of the full 14 range - keep your Hellions within 5 range of Tanks to stay safe from Colossus and grant full vision. If you're tanks are clumped up and you only have 1-2 range more than him because of a lack of vision, then it becomes a thousand times scarier.
Archon + Chargelot compositions - Scary if you are caught in a bad position, EZ if you aren't. Just force the Charge with Hellions at the ~14 range, focus fire Zealots, hide the Hellions behind Thors, ignore Archons completely. They do 1 more DPS than Zealots lol, and their Splash does nothing to Thor/Tank and very little to Hellion, and they stay 3 range away so they don't force Siege Tanks to splash you.
Against a 2 base Toss you will basically be facing 3 things, Immortal + Gateway heavy pushes. Colossus pushes with less Gateway support. And Archon/Chargelot compositions.
Immortal + Gateway push - Engage with Hellions as close as possible to the 14 range of Tanks, Focus fire Immortals with your Hellions as you kite the army through the siege line. #1 Priority for Tanks is Shieldless Immortals, then the biggest clumps of Gateway units, I prefer Zealots though I honestly can't say which is "better" because you do get Bonus Damage vs Stalkers. Once they are close and have engaged you, Thors in front, Hellions behind, and Tanks behind them. Focus fire Shieldless Immortals still, and that's about it.
Colossus push with less gateway support - Reallly bad against Mech IMO, simply because Siege Tanks > Colossus in a straight up fight. I just focus fire Colossus with my Siege Tanks, does a ton of damage because Colossus stand over Gateway units. Make sure to maximize the range difference between Colossus and Siege Tanks by keeping vision of the full 14 range - keep your Hellions within 5 range of Tanks to stay safe from Colossus and grant full vision. If you're tanks are clumped up and you only have 1-2 range more than him because of a lack of vision, then it becomes a thousand times scarier.
Archon + Chargelot compositions - Scary if you are caught in a bad position, EZ if you aren't. Just force the Charge with Hellions at the ~14 range, focus fire Zealots, hide the Hellions behind Thors, ignore Archons completely. They do 1 more DPS than Zealots lol, and their Splash does nothing to Thor/Tank and very little to Hellion, and they stay 3 range away so they don't force Siege Tanks to splash you.
Replays :
http://www.mediafire.com/?ka8g8kx5ksjzk
The folders contains old replays. I now add rep’ in zipped packs, every few days.
Why that and why mediafire? because
1) I want to be able to track and manage my uploaded replays
2) You can download it without having to sign up
3) You don’t have to download one replay at a time, you can download a zipped pack of 10-15 replays which is faster and easier (Assuming everyone have a good enough connection, it’s not a problem to dl a pack imo).
Until the moment i started to write the guide (20 of february) , i was only keeping wom games and using not-really-accurate names. For any replays after this day, i’ll basically name every zip pack as : “Day/Month to Day/Month”, and every replay as “Date - Matchup - Quick description of the replay”
use the sort option with "created" to see them in upload order
FPVODS :
+ Show Spoiler +
Lyyna VOD 001 - TvP - Mech : + Show Spoiler +
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqd55p_lyyna-vod-001-tvp-mech_videogames -- Not really focused on commentaries for this one, this first VOD is mainly here for technical stuff
Lyyna VOD 002 - TvP - Mech : + Show Spoiler +
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqgb0a_lyyna-vod-002-tvp-mech_videogames -- This VOD is basically about how to play when you're behind, and how to get good informations with reduced scouting
Facebook ( mainly for stream announcements and links)
http://www.facebook.com/FSC2Lyyna
Thanks to :
People who convinced to write this guide
People who kept bashing me for the last year and an half year, because they give me the motivation to show how wrong and stupid they are
Goody, for every reason i gave previously
Day9, for being awesome
Contact :
On EU server, "TvP Mech" channel, or PhX‡Lyyna.648
Thanks for reading . . .
I would also like to add something,because this is one of the best reason to play Mech instead of bio : When I play perfectly with mech, I'll win , no matter what the protoss is doing. With bio, even with the best possible play versus protoss lower than me in skill level, i can still just die to his A move / Storm carpet
Very nice guide 
