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United States12240 Posts
Been toying around with this strategy and it seems like it has some promise. Essentially if you suspect that he's going Lurker, you go Vult with speed + mines (mines first). Start laying mines defensively, and get an Ebay and get +1 weapons when you have the money. From here you have several options:
- Fast expand, switch to infantry
- Switch to infantry off of one base
- Switch to infantry drops
- 2-port Wraith
What you can do from here on out is begin mine pushing and using good Vult micro to push him back to his sunken wall. Vult raids probably aren't going to do much since he'll be in such a defensive position, so I don't advise that. The mines will keep his Lurkers from moving out, and Vult micro will allow you to kill any lings that try to suicide against mines, or take potshots at Lurkers. The prediction is that he will start going Hydra to clear out the mines more easily. You can exploit this prediction by switching up to infantry with light Tank support early on, then easily push in.
Wraiths are a decent alternative for killing stray Overlords and forcing him to turtle. This will ensure that he switches to Hydra if he hasn't already done so. Basically this will have the same effect as a 2-port Wraith opening. Following up a 2-port Wraith harass with an infantry drop is devastating.
If you choose to fast expand, that should be safe too since you've got mines/vults to protect against Lurk/ling and probably a couple of Tanks guarding as well.
If he decides to switch up to Muta for a counter position, that shouldn't be a problem either since you've started your infantry production and +1 weapons much earlier than him, and you can always put Turrets up too.
That's about it. This seems like a safe early-game transitionary strat, but I've never seen anyone use it.
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it is a nice effective strat, though it hurts if he goes muta, i usually follow up with an early as possible ebay if he does go muta and turr around a bit and from there get vessel and irridate if i see him continuing (most people do if they see you go 2fact vul, since they assume a follow up by gols or something, which i find useless against Z).
i like that strat, only risk is you have to keep up the tempo and macro. i tend to fail sometimes and the Z breaks out and overwhelms me. but thats just me being lazy --V
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You'll have to elaborate more on this build - are you getting academy so you can make sure he's going lurker? If so, your vulture tech is really slow, vice versa you're taking a pretty big risk (unless he 1 bases, in which you have better options. If he goes 2 base lurker, don't even try this, he'll already be getting drop to protect his cliff, he'll run along the sides and drop 2 lurkers in your mineral line, you can't attack his 3 sunks with the vultures or run by them, meanwhile he'll be getting speed on his overlord + hydralisks, giving him insane mobility.
How do you push lurkerling back anyway? He'll just sacrifice a zergling to get rid of some mines if they're clumped too much, and if he's got his lurkers burrowed in your choke, how do you "push them back?"
The point of going MM vs 1 base (especially dropship) is to give him a hassle taking his expand as well as be able to counterattack if he tries to contain you. This build allows him to take an easy expand, and although he can't be particularly aggressive, neither can you. I love vultures and I think they're the best unit in the game, but doesn't seem appropriate for this.
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Remember, its not like MM "tears the shit" out of countless amounts of hydralisks - pure hydra/hydraling is definitely viable vs marine medic..
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It can work nice on for example Nostalgia, like we have seen in some pro games. But on a map like LT where zerg gets two fast gas it will be harder. Problem is zerg adapt his tech after terran if he scouts fast gas, not other way around. So most zergs wouldn't go lurker vs this build since muta usually works better vs fast tech.
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United States12240 Posts
On April 09 2005 22:17 exalted wrote:
You'll have to elaborate more on this build - are you getting academy so you can make sure he's going lurker? If so, your vulture tech is really slow, vice versa you're taking a pretty big risk (unless he 1 bases, in which you have better options. If he goes 2 base lurker, don't even try this, he'll already be getting drop to protect his cliff, he'll run along the sides and drop 2 lurkers in your mineral line, you can't attack his 3 sunks with the vultures or run by them, meanwhile he'll be getting speed on his overlord + hydralisks, giving him insane mobility.
How do you push lurkerling back anyway? He'll just sacrifice a zergling to get rid of some mines if they're clumped too much, and if he's got his lurkers burrowed in your choke, how do you "push them back?"
The point of going MM vs 1 base (especially dropship) is to give him a hassle taking his expand as well as be able to counterattack if he tries to contain you. This build allows him to take an easy expand, and although he can't be particularly aggressive, neither can you. I love vultures and I think they're the best unit in the game, but doesn't seem appropriate for this.
Academy goes up after the Factory. This is essentially a straight rush to vults. As for pushing back Lurk/ling, your Vults will be out before his Lurkers so you have initial field reign. Even if he tries suiciding lings against your mines, you can kill those before they arrive with your Vults (I covered this in the first post). If the Lurkers are already burrowed, and I have no idea why they would be at your choke at this point in the game, you can still surround them with mines the same way you'd surround them with infantry. Anyway, as I said there are many different possible branches from this build, including a fast expand if you are worried about his income advantage. It's also possible to control his expansion attempts by mining resource node areas.
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2 fac fast vulture vs lurk ling is very good
especially on maps with a mineral only natural (nostalgia for example)
boxer used it very well in the previous dual tournament/starleague
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Norway28763 Posts
vultures > lurker ling. it's just that you're completely fucked if he opens with muta.
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Nostalgia, good.
LT, not so good.
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good strat but if he switches to hyds and u switch du mm he will have lurkers already upgraded anyway and u can expect at least a little bit of scouting  btw im going 90%muta which will own your build especially if i stay massmuta your mm count is so low. but good on maps like nostalgia where u cant really afford ovi speed and all the hyd ups and with vults u can prevent getting more gas
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When I hear those spidermines unburrowing while my lurkers are heading for some ownage all I feel like doing is F10 > E > S
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dont make vults early game make it like middle or late against dark swarm... just put mines on certain locations you think Z attacks its very effective on defending expansions...
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Norway10161 Posts
I used to play vultures vs z in vanilla around the 1.08 beta time - was very entertaining since terran is buttfucked in vanilla anyway. But then more for drone kills early and tech switch fast with expand and 5-6 fac gol.
Anyway what drone said.
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Excalibur_Z give your new strats a shot on nostalgia or other maps with no extra gas for the zerg 
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Belgium9950 Posts
On April 10 2005 08:06 GroT wrote:Excalibur_Z give your new strats a shot on nostalgia or other maps with no extra gas for the zerg
GVOICE Challenge Boxer vs Yellow. Nostalgia. He does that shit.
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well... i think this strat was used by Nada some time ago... but is there anyway of knowing if he's getting muta besides SCAN? maybe... u just need some luck
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I think the problem is that most zergs go muta when they see that the terran takes gas (especially on LT, where they usually manage to scout).
There was this [elo]stefan13 guy who used to own people using vulture-wraith strats, mines seem to be devastating vs lurker ling if terran microes the vultures to take out single lings sent to destroy minefields
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Belgium9950 Posts
On April 10 2005 10:41 8882 wrote:
I think the problem is that most zergs go muta when they see that the terran takes gas (especially on LT, where they usually manage to scout).
There was this [elo]stefan13 guy who used to own people using vulture-wraith strats, mines seem to be devastating vs lurker ling if terran microes the vultures to take out single lings sent to destroy minefields
as posted before, its hard to pull off, and very cheesy on maps with gas at nat exps.
Maps where it MIGHT be viable is nostalgia, intothedarkness,mercury and such.
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cant u just buy some time with turrets and then go goliaths if he goes muta?
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On April 10 2005 11:51 tensionwave wrote:
cant u just buy some time with turrets and then go goliaths if he goes muta?
Yes but you will be at too great of a defensive disadvantage, you won't have enough gas to get vessel for irradiate vs the mutalisks, a MM switch would just delay your expand and take extra time (inefficient), and you won't be able to move out until you have a good number of goliaths, meaning he has free reign over the map and will be able to get a 3rd base (drone up) easily.
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EPT
