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Alright. That title might actually be misleading in a way, but I assure you it fits as well. Since I'm not an established poster (or even player I guess), I'll just introduce myself as RevSaroVati, part of Revoki gaming, and a protoss player at the high master / GM level. This guide I'm writing up is actually a build I've been using on ladder for a good 2-3 weeks with about 70-80% success against players such as FXOpTiKzErO and multiple other top 50 GM level players. Since I'm not really one to waste time, I'll go straight into the build and analyze when, why, and how you should be approaching this build. And I know for SURE I'm going to get flack for the basic opening, but it's just a personal preference that can be adjusted by you yourself if you dislike it. I'll note where this is.
9 Pylon (1 chrono on probes after pylon finishes, I scout with my probe RIGHT after this to deny cheesy losses)
13 Gate (here is where the discretion comes... if you didn't 9 scout, make a 12 gate I guess, 1 chrono on probes after gateway plops down)
15 Assimilator (1 chrono when you get 25 energy, 3 on gas RIGHT when it finishes. This is VERY important)
17 Pylon
18 Cybernetics Core (Stalker out of gateway and warp gate research instantly)
20/21 2nd Gateway (whichever allows you a continuous production of probes. This line is so fine that it depends on your worker split at the start of the game, as well as mineral stacking early game to tell whether it'll be a 20 or 21 gate)
I shall stop the build here and now give you the first 2 variations of this build, as I think a stagnant build order is terrible and easily counterable.
1. The first variation is your SAFEST variation against an aggressive 20 probe 4 gate. I can say with almost COMPLETE confidence that I can personally hold off nearly every 4 gate that comes my way with this unless something terribly goes wrong. The variation is quite simple.
a) Spend your next 3 chrono boosts on your warp gate research
b) Cut probes at 23 (at the current part of the build order, this should be 25/26 supply)
2. The second variation is the more greedy variation (that I have held off against GM level players as well). If you feel you are not as good as the other player by a significant margin in areas like macro, strategy, and timings, but have solid micro skills, this variation will help give you the edge you need. That being said if you think you are better than your opponent period, use the safer version to prevent a loss versus a player that shouldn't beat you.
a) Spend your next 3 chrono boosts on your warp gate research
b) Cut probes at 24 (at the current part of the build order, this should be 26/26 supply. You might be saying "this guy is retarded, there is a 1 probe difference, that's not a variation!" You know, you may be right, but when your units are literally WARPING in when the first 6 stalkers and zealot poke your base, an extra 4 seconds for your units to ACTUALLY warp in helps a ton)
Anyways I will now continue with the build:
24/25 Pylon (both of these #'s will make sure you aren't supply blocked)
26 Build two stalkers out of your gateways, they should line up almost perfectly.
29/30 Build 2 more gateways (supply depends on what variation you did)
29/30 After your two stalkers finish, build two ZEALOTS. Yes, zealots. The 4 second faster build time zealots have than stalkers DOES matter in this build. (again, the supply depends on what variation you are doing)
Next 100 minerals goes to a pylon. Because I don't know which variation you would be following by now, it'd be pointless to give you a number, but it is either 33 or 34
When your warpgate research finishes, so should all of your gateways and your 2 last zealots popping out. This will leave you with 3 stalkers, 2 zealots, and a short incoming burst of 4 stalkers. That will leave you with 7 stalkers and 2 zealots at the 6:10 mark. You will come crying to me that 4 gate hits at 5:50 when executed very well. Well, let's see. There will at least be a 10 second walking distance especially if you retreat far enough into your base (let them hit your warp gates, they wont kill them.) That accounts for 10 seconds of uncertainty (with the more aggressive variation). You have 2 time delaying devices. The first, and most obvious one, is use your fast 3 stalkers to deny the probe, pylon, and first couple units. The timing is lined up so that the zealot and stalker reach your base AS your 2nd and 3rd stalker pop out. I've had games where aggressive protoss's charge in because they see 1 stalker and have 3 stalkers greet them and allow me to kill both the stalker AND the zealot for practically free. This is game-ending in itself. Your 2nd option is to poke with the 3 stalkers you have when his warp-in finishes, and this will usually make him hesitate about madly a-moving straight to your base.
Now comes the tricky part. There is no timing for the last step, but you will just have to find a time for it. If you cut probes at 23, you will need to build 3 probes DURING the 4 gate fest. Yes, during. You need to find a time where you DON'T need a pylon (always have 8 supply free when warpins are almost done cooldown), and also when you don't need the minerals for the warpin round of units. If you cut probes at 24, you will only need to build 2 probes, and they will be much faster considering you've had an extra probe for a few minutes. At 26 probes, you will then find a time to drop your second ASSIMILATOR (this could be after, or even during the 4 gate fight, as seen in my replay vs. iNkA)
If executed correctly, your opponent will walk into your base and overextend himself, only to find 7 stalkers and 2 zealots fight their 6 stalkers and 1 zealot. You should be able to overrun this force and win because of your economic AND army LEAD.
Of course, this isn't unstoppable. I've played dozens of games and my win-rate is still hovering between 70-80%. How do I lose? Either I get out-micro'd, which isn't a build fault, or the protoss builds his 3rd pylon legitimately in my base to cancel ALL attempts at delaying his 4 gate. If the latter is scouted, you can actually bring 3 probes to attack the pylon AS it starts building (it will be 20 probes vs. 19 probes as his scout probe will be in your base so you will still have an economic lead, while eliminating this threat) If they build their 3rd pylon in your base and you DON'T see it, expect a gg unless their micro blows. The other 20% of my losses comes from my blink transition running into a DT tech switch that is unscouted by me til DT's swipe at my units, or something that is un-related to the build itself.
The best parts of the build summed up in short:
- It invites 4 gates to attack you. Literally. What do you think would happen on tal'darim when they see a 2nd gateway before a unit?
- It absolutely stomps 3 stalker pressure. The stalkers get to your base.... to meet 3 stalkers... then get wrecked by your 4 stalker warp in as they retreat back to their base.
- If he fakes 4 gate and does a 24/26 probe defensive 4 gate, you are even on probes. Albeit maybe a bit behind in tech, but hey, you could always just 4 gate him and win because your army is SUPERIOR (hesitant on this because you can throw away a game by forcing a 4 gate on a map with a ramp)
The flaws in the build:
- If the opponent hates his life and slips by your 3 stalkers and builds 3 pylons in your base and 4 gates you, there is a 90% chance you will LOSE. Long story short, use your stalkers.
- If your patience isn't top notch, you will also lose your edge / the game vs. a standard 20 probe 4 gate.
- If your in-game awareness of when to build the 2/3 extra probes due to your economic lead isn't too great, you might just fudge up a lead.
Replays, replays, replays! I decided to make this thread today, and I only had 4 PvP's today, so forgive me for the lack of extensive replays. I will upload more as I ladder more. (by the way 4/4 wins today as well so you know it works  )
http://replayfu.com/download/hdmshq vs VPBonk
http://replayfu.com/download/NxR6T vs coLrsvp
http://replayfu.com/download/ZPwh1n vs QxGiNkA
http://replayfu.com/download/cz03Cp vs TaraEunjung
P.S. I will ONLY upload ladder replays. No point crushing people in custom with a build, it won't prove effective to watch or learn from at all
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thanks a lot for this guide. There are a lot of great tips and nuances that as an off-racing protoss I wouldn't know or think about. thanks again for posting 
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Very nice guide.
Sometimes the most subtle attention to detail can have dramatic impact in this matchup.
If you can account for the travel time in a safe enough manner (give or take 10 seconds), the extra two zealots can easily make a big difference while coming out ahead in economy. This is a build that will reward very crisp play.
I will say that we've seen quite a lot of 3 stalker into 4 gate, so I wonder about how long that mind game will work, but the extra zealots are very nice.
Edit: PvP is also similar to ZvZ in that between 20 probes and full saturation, the player who can squeeze in as many probes and take that second assimilator at ~23 probes will get a substantial advantage. Which is something we see often in play, but has not really been talked about much in PvP strategy. It's good that you point this out!
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I will definitely check this out once my client is done patching. I had some troubles holding off the 4gate with 3stalker rush and extra probes. I wonder though, what if your opponent goes for a fake 4gate, but then goes greedy, takes the 2nd gas and goes 1gate -> twilight blink. Shouldn't his blink finish waaay before yours? He can then proceed to go to your ramp and micro his way to victory against your (delayed) blink.
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Wow, seems like you did some serious homework on hammering out the timings for this to work, and the replays are solid evidence that it works. The big thing is - what happens when enemies recognize what you're doing and study you? Will you have enough intel to know that they're NOT 4gating you (especially with builds that fake a 4gate)
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On August 26 2011 15:30 Doler wrote:
I will definitely check this out once my client is done patching. I had some troubles holding off the 4gate with 3stalker rush and extra probes. I wonder though, what if your opponent goes for a fake 4gate, but then goes greedy, takes the 2nd gas and goes 1gate -> twilight blink. Shouldn't his blink finish waaay before yours? He can then proceed to go to your ramp and micro his way to victory against your (delayed) blink.
That would be true, except if your first 3 stalkers meet 0 pressure, poke his front and bring a probe along. If people have trouble against a normal 4 gate, how will they deal with 7 stalkers and 2 zealots? Plus, you should be economically sound. Of course this build can't counter everything, but from my perspective it counters 90% of the current metagame, which will yield you a ratio that is way above the projected 50% if done right!
On August 26 2011 15:33 sylverfyre wrote:
Wow, seems like you did some serious homework on hammering out the timings for this to work, and the replays are solid evidence that it works. The big thing is - what happens when enemies recognize what you're doing and study you? Will you have enough intel to know that they're NOT 4gating you (especially with builds that fake a 4gate)
Yeah this has started to pop up. Normally I play the same protoss 2-3 times because when your MMR is high, sometimes there is only 1 player who is at the same MMR so you repeatedly play each other. All I can say is, what are the real options? You can't expand. You can't 4 gate (well you can, it just comes down to those subtle timings), and I've actually held off 6 stalkers and 1 zealot with 3 stalkers and 2 zealots. Yes, I lost both the zealots, but I sniped the stalker and bought enough time for my warp in. That's 7 stalkers vs. 5 stalkers and a zealot. You still have an advantage!
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Good guide, have seen variations of this build (defensive 3 stalker with econ>defensive 4gate), but in the end no matter how good the build is PvP almost always comes down to which player has the better unit control/game sense. This build just helps give you a better chance to win - props on that! Good guide and well explained.
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On August 26 2011 14:45 SaroVati wrote:
you will also lose your edge / the game
omg why did you word it like that?
thanks for the guide, it sounds interesting. really hate how pvp is all about strict strict timings that boil down to the second >< do you think this build will still be viable after patch 1.4? it seems like you would be forced to either all in, or throw down a nexus instead of a 4th gateway. is all inning even an option with the immortal buff and the heavy stalker count this build has?
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On August 26 2011 15:49 tuestresfat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 14:45 SaroVati wrote:
you will also lose your edge / the game omg why did you word it like that? thanks for the guide, it sounds interesting. really hate how pvp is all about strict strict timings that boil down to the second >< do you think this build will still be viable after patch 1.4? it seems like you would be forced to either all in, or throw down a nexus instead of a 4th gateway. is all inning even an option with the immortal buff and the heavy stalker count this build has?
Haha well if you don't want those seconds to matter, and normal 4 gate should suffice as there is still a 5-10 second walking distance for your opponents 4 gate This is just a build that is out there if someone wants to walk the line of crisp execution for small advantages, and I just happen to be a person who loves crisp execution :D After patch 1.4, I expect 1 gate robo (my new build that I'm perfecting) to be the new build. The reason why I posted this up was so people could use it for the remainder of the time, else I'd keep it to myself a bit longer and reap the rewards of the build xD
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Seems like a nice BO. Pretty sweet idea to delay the first unit to make another gate.
So basicaly, this is a defensive 4 gate that turns offensive once you realize that he's not 4 gating ? The thing that troubles me is that if your opponent puts his second gas right as he chases your scouting probe, you be heavily behind on gas and tech, and most builds can hold off a late 4 gate. What I like about it is that you're getting a lot of probes.
What I don't like about it is that if your opponent has perfect 5:42 timing with pylons at the bottom of your ramp and decent micro, you lose (30 seconds is a lot of time to wreak havoc in your base).
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Geiko I totally agree. If you do a 12 gate 14 gas with this exact same build but speed things up (especially with the safe variation) I've managed to start my warpin at 6:03, so actually only 21 seconds =) And if he does a perfect 5:42 timing with his pylons, then you must not be pushing the 3 stalkers vs. 1 stalker 1 zealot advantage enough. One of the solutions as I've mentioned is pulling 3 probes (to maintain economically with him) to harass the pylon (if there is one). Now as you've mentioned, the problem is if there are multiple pylons! That would mean he's cutting corners somewhere though and the 5:42 timing won't be as powerful as it should be. By this time, you have 3 stalkers and 2 zealots anyways, so a non-perfect 4 gate will have 1 unit on you. You should be able to buy time (and even lose 2 units), warp in, and be even with him again (except with a probe lead)
To address the fast gas, I'm trying it with a high masters teammate of mine. Currently, I think I'm 7-0. Whenever I find a flaw, I will definitely post about it!
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This is like a 3 stalker rush into 4 gate.
I usually do a 3 stalker into robo tech.
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Really cool guide, I would have never thought that you could transition out of an early 3 stalker opening into a 4gate build. Saro, do you only do this as a defensive build when you suspect your opponent is 4gating you or would you turn on the aggression if he wasn't attacking or teching? Like if you scout double gas and he's CBing out probes early game, you would probably not do this exact build right?
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I don't understand. What if your opponent doesn't 4 gate? On eu server they all have 4 gate proof builds with relatively fast tech. Barely anyone 4 gatesanymore.
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On August 26 2011 16:39 Anomandaris wrote:
I don't understand. What if your opponent doesn't 4 gate? On eu server they all have 4 gate proof builds with relatively fast tech. Barely anyone 4 gatesanymore.
The amount of units you get from this build is so much more then a normal 4gate when saro first did it to me I didn't even expect a 4gate at all so I just do a robo-blink build and then as im warping in my 6th stalker he walks up my ramp with a shit ton of units and just rolls me. The build really just looks like a 3stalker rush with more chrono on the nexus, so that's really misleading in itself. But even if you're expecting the build you have to be really really prepared to hold it.
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On August 26 2011 16:47 serpyderp wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 16:39 Anomandaris wrote:
I don't understand. What if your opponent doesn't 4 gate? On eu server they all have 4 gate proof builds with relatively fast tech. Barely anyone 4 gatesanymore. The amount of units you get from this build is so much more then a normal 4gate when saro first did it to me I didn't even expect a 4gate at all so I just do a robo-blink build and then as im warping in my 6th stalker he walks up my ramp with a shit ton of units and just rolls me. The build really just looks like a 3stalker rush with more chrono on the nexus, so that's really misleading in itself. But even if you're expecting the build you have to be really really prepared to hold it.
And what if you have a sentry? he won't be able to get pylons below your ramp, so you will just roll him by cutting his force in half. Getting a quick robo AND council is auto loss vs blink anyay, you shouldn't do that.
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Pretty high level thoughts you've shared with us there - seems like a solid build. I've seen more and more people mess around with a fast 2nd gate in order to get more units out before the first warp-in-cycle. I've seen HwangSin get a zealot first, but still build a "quite" fast-ish 2nd gate and end up with the same composition you have (the delay of the 2nd gate gets compensated if you build a zealot out of it and a stalker out of the other one).
Unfortunately, it seems like with the 1.4 changes, 4 gate will finally be a heavy cheese that relies on your opponent to screw up. Therefore I don't think you need a defensive 4 gate anymore.
Nevertheless I think this build has good potential for Tal Darim.
On August 26 2011 16:34 aznkukuboi wrote:
This is like a 3 stalker rush into 4 gate.
I usually do a 3 stalker into robo tech.
Well, that's - to some extent - the point of this build. Personally, I've used 3 stalker into 4 gate on TalDarim as well, gives me quite some free-wins when my opponent thinks he can just waltz into my base because he expects tech. But this build manages to also get 2 zealots out before the WG tech finishes, which makes it even stronger if you face an offensive 4 gate.
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I do similar build in taldarim and i have 100% winrate in gm eu with that. But i dont think this is quite valid build in other maps since 3gate with faster gas counters this.
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On August 26 2011 16:54 mazqo wrote:
I do similar build in taldarim and i have 100% winrate in gm eu with that. But i dont think this is quite valid build in other maps since 3gate with faster gas counters this.
exactly my toughts
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EPT
