• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:49
CEST 23:49
KST 06:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)54Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format16[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!6Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back12BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) [D] Wireframe Casting Removed Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format Is the larve respawn broken?
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion ASL22 General Discussion NaDa’s Body Followup Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) Etiquete rules in Asl?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend! Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
The Experiences We Want and …
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10006 users

[G] PvP Stronger 4 gate - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
SaroVati
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada280 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-29 18:42:01
August 29 2011 18:41 GMT
#61
On August 30 2011 03:33 Kornholi0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2011 16:03 Kornholi0 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Wasif1112#p/u/1/XVI1NEEfX7s
Well here you go..

To the other person, I don't play protoss at all. I was just curious how his 4gate compares to "other" 4gates what the difference is, and why one is better than the other.

Its merely speculation and for the educated togetherness of the SCII community as me being zerg face the common 4gate as well :|


Lol this 4 gate is a standard 4 gate. The difference between his "very precise and clean" 4 gate and mine is completely different.

a) my plat friends could pull a 4 gate almost identically to this.
b) there are 0 timings associated with this build outside of when to build the gateways.

When he selected his probes, I counted exactly 16 on mineral patches, and 3 on gas, with 1 scouting probe. That is a STANDARD 20 probe 4 gate. That is what this build intends to destroy, and if he stays back for his 2nd wave as CombatEX says is SOOOOO important, that will give his build 0 advantages over mine, and he will get his world rocked.

The real difference is this 4 gate hits about 15-20 seconds after a standard 4 gate. The other difference is that there is more map presence early on, you counter 3 gate stalker openings, and have MORE economy than a standard 4 gate, WHILE having 7 stalkers and 2 zealots, rather than 6 stalkers and 1 zealot.

So you are saying that you could beat CombatEx in a PvP because your build > then his build. (Aside from any macro/afterthefact differences).


I've beaten both CombatEX and RatZDeezer multiple times on ladder, regardless of if they 4 gate, proxy 2 gate, cannon rush, or anything else. In fact if you ask him yourself, they both will tell you they have 0 replays of them BEATING me on ladder (or in tournaments too). The PvP build he showed on that SPECIFIC video would hit all the WRONG timings against mine. The vulnerability is the first warp in, which he doesn't hit. He waits for the 2nd warp in, which not only allows me to surpass him in army value, but also get an even LARGER lead from the extra time with 4 extra probes.
Vlare
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
748 Posts
August 30 2011 23:39 GMT
#62
Been doing this build lately, I really like it. Thanks for this Saro, working vs 1700+ masters players on NA. I have no doubt in its ability to work at higher levels as well. I threw in a gas steal on cross positions to further force the 4gate... what are your thoughts on this Saro ?
Mass zerglings doesnt fail
SaroVati
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada280 Posts
August 31 2011 03:04 GMT
#63
On August 31 2011 08:39 Vlare wrote:
Been doing this build lately, I really like it. Thanks for this Saro, working vs 1700+ masters players on NA. I have no doubt in its ability to work at higher levels as well. I threw in a gas steal on cross positions to further force the 4gate... what are your thoughts on this Saro ?


No problem Hm I had a little experiment / variation I was doing a while back, but threw it out the window when I decided it didn't work TOO well. If I saw only 1 chrono boost saved up by the time my core finished, I would gas steal him instantly. If I saw 50+ energy saved up, I would hesitate on it and do it 50/50 depending on what I thought might happen. If I saw 75+ saved up I would just go with the build because he's 90% going to do a 4 gate, and if not you will be 3 probes ahead.

The only REAL way other than the reads above of executing a gas steal AND keeping the timings relatively the same is to cut probes down to 20/21. Since you know for sure your opponent is going to 4 gate, I guess it shouldn't be too bad if you want a micro battle, but you REALLY have to be active with your first 3 stalkers + 2 zealots OR 5 stalkers (you can make the 4th and 5th units STALKERS because your 3rd and 4th gate will be delayed slightly for warpgate tech anyways because of the probe cut)

Again, it's your call, my build isn't set in stone My recommendation is if you feel you can use your starting 3 stalkers very effectively and feel comfortable and patient enough to wait it out, go for it! Like you stated though, I would only suggest it on cross positions, and most preferably Shattered, Abyssal, or TDA cross position anyways. Great to know it's working for you though and I'm honored to have people try adding new ideas onto the build
Vlare
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
748 Posts
August 31 2011 03:51 GMT
#64
On August 31 2011 12:04 SaroVati wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2011 08:39 Vlare wrote:
Been doing this build lately, I really like it. Thanks for this Saro, working vs 1700+ masters players on NA. I have no doubt in its ability to work at higher levels as well. I threw in a gas steal on cross positions to further force the 4gate... what are your thoughts on this Saro ?


No problem Hm I had a little experiment / variation I was doing a while back, but threw it out the window when I decided it didn't work TOO well. If I saw only 1 chrono boost saved up by the time my core finished, I would gas steal him instantly. If I saw 50+ energy saved up, I would hesitate on it and do it 50/50 depending on what I thought might happen. If I saw 75+ saved up I would just go with the build because he's 90% going to do a 4 gate, and if not you will be 3 probes ahead.

The only REAL way other than the reads above of executing a gas steal AND keeping the timings relatively the same is to cut probes down to 20/21. Since you know for sure your opponent is going to 4 gate, I guess it shouldn't be too bad if you want a micro battle, but you REALLY have to be active with your first 3 stalkers + 2 zealots OR 5 stalkers (you can make the 4th and 5th units STALKERS because your 3rd and 4th gate will be delayed slightly for warpgate tech anyways because of the probe cut)

Again, it's your call, my build isn't set in stone My recommendation is if you feel you can use your starting 3 stalkers very effectively and feel comfortable and patient enough to wait it out, go for it! Like you stated though, I would only suggest it on cross positions, and most preferably Shattered, Abyssal, or TDA cross position anyways. Great to know it's working for you though and I'm honored to have people try adding new ideas onto the build


Yes I agree with you, about having to cut the probes. What I really like is how they push you because of the delayed stalker, and then are surprised with 3 stalkers, against some players I am simply able to snipe the probe/pylon, pull back to my ramp and greet them with 2 zealots+ my stalkers and be in a very great position.

Really appreciate your opener my friend, keep it up
Mass zerglings doesnt fail
SaroVati
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada280 Posts
August 31 2011 06:43 GMT
#65
On August 31 2011 12:51 Vlare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2011 12:04 SaroVati wrote:
On August 31 2011 08:39 Vlare wrote:
Been doing this build lately, I really like it. Thanks for this Saro, working vs 1700+ masters players on NA. I have no doubt in its ability to work at higher levels as well. I threw in a gas steal on cross positions to further force the 4gate... what are your thoughts on this Saro ?


No problem Hm I had a little experiment / variation I was doing a while back, but threw it out the window when I decided it didn't work TOO well. If I saw only 1 chrono boost saved up by the time my core finished, I would gas steal him instantly. If I saw 50+ energy saved up, I would hesitate on it and do it 50/50 depending on what I thought might happen. If I saw 75+ saved up I would just go with the build because he's 90% going to do a 4 gate, and if not you will be 3 probes ahead.

The only REAL way other than the reads above of executing a gas steal AND keeping the timings relatively the same is to cut probes down to 20/21. Since you know for sure your opponent is going to 4 gate, I guess it shouldn't be too bad if you want a micro battle, but you REALLY have to be active with your first 3 stalkers + 2 zealots OR 5 stalkers (you can make the 4th and 5th units STALKERS because your 3rd and 4th gate will be delayed slightly for warpgate tech anyways because of the probe cut)

Again, it's your call, my build isn't set in stone My recommendation is if you feel you can use your starting 3 stalkers very effectively and feel comfortable and patient enough to wait it out, go for it! Like you stated though, I would only suggest it on cross positions, and most preferably Shattered, Abyssal, or TDA cross position anyways. Great to know it's working for you though and I'm honored to have people try adding new ideas onto the build


Yes I agree with you, about having to cut the probes. What I really like is how they push you because of the delayed stalker, and then are surprised with 3 stalkers, against some players I am simply able to snipe the probe/pylon, pull back to my ramp and greet them with 2 zealots+ my stalkers and be in a very great position.

Really appreciate your opener my friend, keep it up


yeah for sure that is what I tried to get my timings based around. This build really rewards players who can keep the sharp timings in check while being active with the units they acquire early game. Like I said earlier, if everything is controlled very nicely, this build should be a near auto-win vs. standard 4 gates on maps like Tal'darim Alter. Glad you are finding the timings so smooth too

If time passes and my PvZ starts getting figured out, I'll post it too. It's a great mix up to throw a zerg off especially in tournament play aka BO3 or BO5's etc. If it gets popular, it'd actually make the PvZ matchup on certain maps easier as a whole as zergs would be basing new timings around the strong push I make :D
mazqo
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland368 Posts
August 31 2011 07:07 GMT
#66
Why do you people want to still 4gate? maybe learn to play blinkstalkerz/colo games. This build is only valid for defense, not offense. So, fast tech builds are so much ahead. And you cant do anything against gas steal.
Nyast
Profile Joined November 2010
Belgium554 Posts
August 31 2011 09:24 GMT
#67
If you see your opponent fast-techs, you can:

1. Gas steal him
2. Take your 2nd gas as fast as him and hard tech too
3. 4-gate him ( the timings are slower than an agressive 4 gate, but on the other hand it's also stronger since you have more eco )

Against a gas steal, you can still 4-gate him, as his build will be slightly delayed. Or just kill the assimilator and take your 2nd gas, you won't be that far behind.
SaroVati
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada280 Posts
August 31 2011 22:30 GMT
#68
On August 31 2011 16:07 mazqo wrote:
Why do you people want to still 4gate? maybe learn to play blinkstalkerz/colo games. This build is only valid for defense, not offense. So, fast tech builds are so much ahead. And you cant do anything against gas steal.


Lol not to be cheeky or anything, but I would probably give you a good bet my blink stalker play is stronger than yours It's my main PvP strategy. I never said this was my main strategy all the time, and I definitely also encourage other styles of play, however having a strong 4gate is absolutely ESSENTIAL for playing protoss, so I don't know why people aren't allowed to learn this build.
Nyast
Profile Joined November 2010
Belgium554 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 14:08:01
September 09 2011 14:06 GMT
#69
So I've played a fair number of games with that build, and while I still like it, I found that it's indeed very risky if you get gas-stolen.

It takes ages for your 3 stalkers to kill the assimilator and if you wait for the 2 zealots to kill it, and he's taken a fast gas, you're far behind in tech.

This leaves you with no choice other than 4-gating him. Problem is: good players can hold a 4-gate especially as the warp is slightly delayed, since you're spending your chronos into probes. The attack can't really start before 6', which is too late versus good protoss, who will just temporize with sentries until their immortal is done. After that, you're severely behind..

I get gas-stolen an insane amount of times with that build, far more than usual. Of course that's logical: with their scouting probe they see you're spending a ton of chronos on the nexus, so they suspect you'll be teching, so they take your gas.

So the only real solution to a gas steal seems to be 4 gating agressively, which is exactly what your opponent is expecting Or to take a fast 2nd gas, which kindda disturbs the build.
w4rner
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada8 Posts
September 13 2011 20:07 GMT
#70
Any chance of re-uploading the replays?
I think replayfu went down
Fierco
Profile Joined February 2011
United States31 Posts
September 13 2011 20:59 GMT
#71
Replays are broken.

Great post btw! Could you upload a replay of what you do when your opponent isn't 4 gating, and possibly decides on blink stalkers or 3 gate robo?
IMBADYEP
Profile Joined December 2010
United States16 Posts
September 24 2011 23:36 GMT
#72
On September 09 2011 23:06 Nyast wrote:
So I've played a fair number of games with that build, and while I still like it, I found that it's indeed very risky if you get gas-stolen.

It takes ages for your 3 stalkers to kill the assimilator and if you wait for the 2 zealots to kill it, and he's taken a fast gas, you're far behind in tech.

This leaves you with no choice other than 4-gating him. Problem is: good players can hold a 4-gate especially as the warp is slightly delayed, since you're spending your chronos into probes. The attack can't really start before 6', which is too late versus good protoss, who will just temporize with sentries until their immortal is done. After that, you're severely behind..

I get gas-stolen an insane amount of times with that build, far more than usual. Of course that's logical: with their scouting probe they see you're spending a ton of chronos on the nexus, so they suspect you'll be teching, so they take your gas.

So the only real solution to a gas steal seems to be 4 gating agressively, which is exactly what your opponent is expecting Or to take a fast 2nd gas, which kindda disturbs the build.


I've had this same problem. Its generally a good idea for you to gas steal when using this build. This way you're basically daring them to 4gate you, and in my experience(High diamond) they generally oblige.
Sceptre
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada130 Posts
October 27 2011 06:35 GMT
#73

I just watched Sarovati do this build vs Tyler on Tyler's stream. Tyler didn't really seem to have a good answer to it, good to know it's still viable.


(For those interested, here's the link to the VOD, game starts around an hour in: http://www.twitch.tv/liquidtyler/b/298459196 )
Ah, go Puck yourself.
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Epic.LAN
13:00
Epic.LAN 48 Playoff Stage
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 192
ViBE95
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 609
HiyA 14
Dota 2
syndereN384
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
fl0m1756
minikerr32
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox544
Mew2King274
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr90
Other Games
gofns10714
tarik_tv5509
Grubby3473
Liquid`RaSZi1142
C9.Mang0541
Livibee211
XaKoH 115
Chillindude55
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2360
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 75
• musti20045 21
• RyuSc2 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix21
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2446
Other Games
• imaqtpie930
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
11h 11m
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
12h 11m
OSC
15h 11m
IPSL
18h 11m
Bonyth vs Ret
WardiTV Weekly
1d 13h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 18h
OSC
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
CrankTV Team League
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W3
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Proleague 2026-07-18
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.