|
I'm gonna pretty this up later but I noticed we didn't have a vayne thread so i wanted to start one.
Essentially there are 3 schools of thought on how to build vayne which I'm sure will cause endless debate ITT
1) the "proc" ideal. with tumble having an absurdly low cooldown, you gain massive benefits from the triforce/sheen damage procs. the core here is something like D-blade(s) -> boots -> sheen -> triforce -> damage. this makes vayne a bursty assassin who is massively frontloaded.
2) the "massive attack damage" school. since tumble also grants a massive AD boost with a good ratio, other people tend to think that stacking attack damage will not only make tumble's attack boost more effective than a measly sheen proc, but will also increase her sustained damage. proponents of this theory use something like D-blade(s) -> boots -> bloodthirster -> infinity edge
both of these schools of thought fail to address the fact that vayne is the squishiest champ in the game. while the frail vampire hunter DOES have godly amounts of kiting and escaping abilities (stealth champs are always balanced), the fact remains that if you eat even a single slow, you will be chain-CC'd and taken down. they also seem to gloss over the fact that vayne has by far the most powerful skill in the game, her W. both these builds revolve around tumble which is just insanity to me. therefore, in conjuncture with another summoner, i have refined another build for vayne that i think am positive is a better build 99% of the time
3) the "attack speed + tank, aka correct" build. this is what my guide will be focusing on.
this build revolves around vayne's W, silver bolts. silver bolts deals percent-of-MAX-health-based TRUE damage which is just a silly concept on any champ, let alone a ranged champ with a repositioning skill. essentially you want to get enough attack speed that you are getting those critical third procs as quickly as possible to shred tanks and squishies alike, and enough tankiness to stay alive while doing it.
Skill order:
Q W W E W, R > W > Q > E
it's important to take tumble first so you can get out of level 1 ganks and to help you nab last hits so you can speed your way to level 2. at level 2 you take silver bolts and just simply force your lane opponent out of lane. attack -> tumble attack -> attack will hit for 300+ at level 2, which no champion can retaliate against except like... leblanc or annie with a stun up.
W is maxed first to increase the base damage and the % damage on silver bolts. Q is maxed next to up survivability. a level of E is taken at 4 to help finish combos and to pin people against walls/push them away, but the damage increase is not important enough to level it early.
R when necessary, of course 
Item build:
regrowth -> double philo -> boots -> wit's end -> PD/starks -> mallet/warmogs -> atmas
open with regrowth and a pot. your range, speed, and tumble will help you avoid most harass. when you are getting harassed, the imba HP regen of regrowth will let you top off your HP quickly, and it will also negate creep damage when you make your moves and draw aggro.
regrowth turns into philo, and grab another philo and boots on your first trip back as well. this mana regen, combined with your stupid low mana costs, means you'll be able to tumble nonstop on cooldown and get in a ton of harass.
first big item is wit's end. it grants you some much needed MR and the key component of this build - attack speed. recurve first if you can't buy it in one trip.
next item is up for debate. i've traditionally built phantom dancer as my next item. my thoughts are that the movespeed increases survivability but it's really wasted offensively since vayne has no problems catching anyone. so you only get half value out of the movespeed. the crit synergizes with atma's later, but it's not really the focal point of the build. the AS is the main thing you want, so i've started considering stark's instead. it gives good attack speed and armor reduction, and the lifesteal goes a long way in increasing your EHP, especially in a tanky build (props to BEAR Barbsq for pointing this change out to me)
third item is your HP item. by the midgame, bruisers will be trying to close the gap and squash you so you need some HP to mitigate this. there are two options here. i prefer frozen mallet. the slow just exacerbates vayne's ability to chase and kite, but warmog's is also an option, which is what such excellent summoners as ObamasLeftHand runs.
final core item is atma's. this will give you the armor that you need to survive, combined with your absurd HP. it'll also add some nice damage at this point, and if you got PD earlier, the crit will be pretty high at this point.
as for boots, i prefer mercs for the MR, but against low-stun teams, i'll also run zerkers and turn one of the philos into an elesai's miracle.
what this build is NOT
this build is not a tower pushing build. you have next to no damage, you rely entirely on your W to deal damage. W does not affect towers. you won't be taking potshots lategame at towers and crushing them.
this build is not a dueling build. if you play a normal against another vayne, it's very likely that a triforce build will crush you before you even get to your second W proc. this build isn't meant to be bursty. it's meant to shred tanks that chase you in teamfights, give you enough EHP to survive a caster's burst, and make your kiting supreme in skirmishes.
|
Thanks for this. I haven't played Vayne yet, but from what I've seen from others playing her and from looking at her skill set, your guide seems to be very reasonable and well-suited to the current trend of stacking tanky dps champs (at least at my level anyway).
Nice to see a run-down of other popular play-styles too. Cheers!
|
From what i saw when i played her (admitedly, not much) I don't think you need W maxed asap. Vayne is a champion that does already stupid amount of damage (MF level) and maxing Q gives you alot of damage in the early game.
Your W scales with their hp and armor so you need it maxed when those strat being relevant : not before level 14 in general...
Also i liked bloodrazor alot on her, going whitsends, malady, frozen mallet, bloodrazor, warmogs dropping the malady for a defense item if necesary (banshees or randuins)
|
real build:
regrowth/pot -> philo -> zerkers -> wit's end -> atma's -> warmogs -> banshee's. upgrade philo to the tenacity thing mid game and then late game sell it for IE. win every game 1v9.
|
well malady is definitely the wrong item to build on her in 100% of cases. if you MUST get an additional attack speed item, sword of the divine is what you'd build instead.
bloodrazor is also a waste on her. it's like an inferior version of her W. she is like teemo in that she favors attack speed and indirect damage, but unlike teemo, she has %-based true damage, so she doesn't even need to build damage anywhere else
also i get what you're saying about not maxing W, but it really does make a difference. not only is the %-damage going up when you level W, but the base damage of silver bolts also increases. it's not a ton, but it's like 20 damage per level and 1% additional true damage. this means that you're gaining like a minimum of 35 damage per level of W, which is unconstrained by cooldowns. and since you're maxing attack speed with this, that's a LOT of damage compared to tumble IMO. feel free to correct me on the numbers if i'm wrong, i'll update the OP with the exact numbers from the LoL homepage and stuff later
|
United States47024 Posts
On May 31 2011 05:37 gtrsrs wrote:
both of these schools of thought fail to address the fact that vayne is the squishiest champ in the game. while the frail vampire hunter DOES have godly amounts of kiting and escaping abilities (stealth champs are always balanced), the fact remains that if you eat even a single slow, you will be chain-CC'd and taken down. they also seem to gloss over the fact that vayne has by far the most powerful skill in the game, her W. both these builds revolve around tumble which is just insanity to me. therefore, in conjuncture with another summoner, i have refined another build for vayne that i think am positive is a better build 99% of the time
Vayne's baseline survivability is actually comparable or superior to many other champions that have worse means of escape than she does. Her base survivability is better than champs like Ashe/Lux/Annie/Anivia (though the latter 2 build Catalyst and have forms of survivability in their skills), and is just barely behind Corki/Caitlyn/TF.
I do agree that people overlook the sheer power of her W, but I think you overstate how squishy she is, when her survivability is totally in line with other AP/AD carries.
|
i will try this out
vayne is free till tomorrow..
|
sorry yango. i tend to overstate my points to get them across without doing actual research
DISCLAIMER: I HAVEN'T BOTHERED TO LOOK UP VAYNE'S SURVIVABILITY NUMBERS COMPARED TO ANY OTHER CHAMPS. SHE IS VERY SQUISHY, THOUGH PERHAPS NOT TECHNICALLY THE SQUISHIEST
what i'm trying to get at is that she's just really really easy to kill if you catch her. granted she's very hard to catch but once you do it's lights out
also anivia is definitely not comparable to other champs in survivability due to egg. lux has a much greater effective range than vayne and even ashe has a long-range poke which vayne lacks. i think she's therefore "squishier" than those champs.
|
Best Vayne build is to have a teammate pick Nunu and press W and click on you.
|
yeah nunu is a crazy good teammate for vayne for sure. i will add that to the OP since it's so incredibly synergistic. W boosts her killing power 100-fold, E and R protect her from nasty bruisers while she in turn protects nunu with her E. they are a top-tier team for sure
|
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Using Ashe as an example of a typical Range AD Carry and comparing against Vayne:
- Both have same lvl 1 hp, Vayne gains 4 more hp/lvl than Ashe.
- Same Amour, Mres, Mana, HP Regen and Mana Regen stats
- Same base lvl 1 AS, but Ashe gains slightly more per lvl
- Because Vayne's abilities innately scale her damage output than Ashe, she has 50 less range to compensate
- To synergise with her R, Q and Passive, she has 5 more movespeed
So she's still pretty squishy. At lvl 18 with no runes/masteries/items you'll still have sub-2k hp. The main core design aspect is her ability to chase someone down and almost always catch them thanks +40MS from her passive and another +120 from Ult.
On May 31 2011 06:36 crate wrote:
Best Vayne build is to have a teammate pick Nunu and press W and click on you.
Yeah, +65% AS boost, with Nunu's slow and even more MS means that nothing will ever escape from you.
|
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
this is bad. Instead of being lazy and just wanting to sit and right click, use tumble and condemn properly and 1v5 their team with IE build.
|
Is there a reason you aren't picking up a banshees veil? Warmogs that late seems almost silly, although atmogs is a very good combo. I like a frozen mallet for kiting people while giving a huge boost to hit points. You obviously need no help chasing people down, but you're going to get jumped on in team fights.
I played a madreds -> Starks -> banshees -> mallet build that seemed to work out pretty well. I think Wit's is far superior to madreds in retrospect since it's so much cheaper, but either choice could be good seeing as madreds will give you some early armor while wits gives MR.
W first is the way to play if you aren't building AD though. Tumble is based on total damage if I'm not mistaken. Could be base damage, but either way you should get larger returns from W as long as you're getting 3 hits on your harass.
|
On May 31 2011 07:29 Brees wrote:
this is bad. Instead of being lazy and just wanting to sit and right click, use tumble and condemn properly and 1v5 their team with IE build.
your post is bad. instead of being lazy and just barking a one liner use reasoning or at least test this out because i'm pretty sure you haven't tried it
|
On May 31 2011 06:36 crate wrote:
Best Vayne build is to have a teammate pick Nunu and press W and click on you.
Nidalee is also crazy good
|
United States47024 Posts
On May 31 2011 07:29 Brees wrote:
this is bad. Instead of being lazy and just wanting to sit and right click, use tumble and condemn properly and 1v5 their team with IE build.
TBH at this point I think Vayne is too OP to properly determine what's "best" on her. Pretty much anything ranged carry-ish works on her because of how flexible her kit is.
I think it's good to try things right now, and narrow down something well-geared toward her kit once she gets some nerfs. I definitely don't think the IE build is the end-all-be-all at this stage--no champ had an ideal build 2 weeks after release.
|
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On May 31 2011 07:51 freelander wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 07:29 Brees wrote:
this is bad. Instead of being lazy and just wanting to sit and right click, use tumble and condemn properly and 1v5 their team with IE build. your post is bad. instead of being lazy and just barking a one liner use reasoning or at least test this out because i'm pretty sure you haven't tried it
you're telling me my posting is bad when you post some corny mimic post?
Rofl
like your post literally accomplished nothing...waste of bandwidth. what is your point even? I said the build is shit so give me a counterargument as to why it isnt. no reason to build tanky on an assassin. real garbage Euros
|
I don't know why you would make anything apart from standard ranged carry items (ie/bc/bt+pd+lw).
|
On May 31 2011 08:14 Brees wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 07:51 freelander wrote:On May 31 2011 07:29 Brees wrote:
this is bad. Instead of being lazy and just wanting to sit and right click, use tumble and condemn properly and 1v5 their team with IE build. your post is bad. instead of being lazy and just barking a one liner use reasoning or at least test this out because i'm pretty sure you haven't tried it you're telling me my posting is bad when you post some corny mimic post? Rofl like your post literally accomplished nothing...waste of bandwidth. what is your point even? I said the build is shit so give me a counterargument as to why it isnt. no reason to build tanky on an assassin. real garbage Euros
I don't think you use the words "literally" and "nothing" properly. By the way, are you always this mad, Mr. Authority?
|
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On May 31 2011 08:38 freelander wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 08:14 Brees wrote:On May 31 2011 07:51 freelander wrote:On May 31 2011 07:29 Brees wrote:
this is bad. Instead of being lazy and just wanting to sit and right click, use tumble and condemn properly and 1v5 their team with IE build. your post is bad. instead of being lazy and just barking a one liner use reasoning or at least test this out because i'm pretty sure you haven't tried it you're telling me my posting is bad when you post some corny mimic post? Rofl like your post literally accomplished nothing...waste of bandwidth. what is your point even? I said the build is shit so give me a counterargument as to why it isnt. no reason to build tanky on an assassin. real garbage Euros I don't think you use the words "literally" and "nothing" properly. By the way, are you always this mad, Mr. Authority?
so the shitty euro further couldnt think of a good counterargument and resorts to a 2nd meme, l0l
glad we settled that this build is trash, until you come up with a proper argument cya euro shitty
User was temp banned for this post.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
