EPTTL Mafia XL
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On the topic of freeloader: I don't think he would be mafia off of his initial question. Having played a previous game as mafia, mafia members are explicitly aware of the fact that they are allowed to PM one another meaning that he would not need to ask that question in the first place. Given that he said that "he read the rules twice", there is no reason to believe that he would not read his role PM as closely. Many people have concluded that his responses to being put under pressure are suspicious, but I don't think so. If anything, a mafia member would not want to put themselves under increased suspicion with cryptic statements - they want to hide, not increase the chances that they will be caught out. This, however, is not as strong as the first reason I had said above. Judging based off of day 1 analysis will never be entirely solid, however, the people that jumped the gun to vote for freeloader are more suspicious then freeloader himself. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On June 05 2011 13:38 Jimbooo wrote: @aprudds Wow, nice observation. I dont know if hes just someone with a question or what, but I dont want to make hasty decisions and accidentally lynch someone that we shouldnt lynch. This establishes his desire to not make a 'hasty decision'. But then, he immediately votes for freeloader at 13:52. A pretty 'hasty decision' in my opinion. Then, when people start questioning the lynch of freeloader, he becomes defensive. On June 05 2011 14:09 Jimbooo wrote: There is still 48 hours left, no one knows who is going to end up getting lynched and I'm not saying free loader is INDEFINITELY Mafia. So far he just has the most against him is all I am saying. Just because someone has the 'most against them' doesn't mean that its the correct decision. Indeed, this seems to immediately contradict his assessment of not being hasty. On June 05 2011 14:57 Jimbooo wrote: Thinking about this , I am sort of happy I can unvote. But that doesnt change freeloaders suspiciousness. With his last post , I do think he is alot more shady , but I dont want to point fingers. Like I said in one of my posts , I dont want to be hasty and lynch a townie , but there is 48 hours left. Now he leaves a back-out plan. This post smacks of defensiveness and typical mafia behavior of "i don't really want to lynch this person but I'm still voting for him." In my opinion, its to look back later to show that he never really wanted to lynch freeloader. On June 05 2011 15:13 Jimbooo wrote: I guess I was just quick to vote? idk, its possible to change votes so I wouldnt say its a mistake , but once freeloader was that suspicious I just felt it was a good time to vote. Same as above. When put under pressure, he immediately 'backs out' of his decision. On June 05 2011 15:45 Jimbooo wrote: I have to say, it probably is better to not vote until your sure of it and wont change your vote , but as of now I'm keeping my vote as is. Same as above. On June 06 2011 01:08 Jimbooo wrote: I accidentally posted my last post without finishing , sorry. Im not sure if freeloader was TRYING to be suspicious with his last post , but after thinking it through I think he is probably just new. That small amount of evidence got a discussion started , but I think people also voted slightly hastily. It looks very suspicious that so many people voted for freeloader right after he was accused. This takes the cake, he accuses other people of being hasty, when he was one of the first to vote for freeloader. Now that more people are defending freeloader, he backs out and unvotes to not look suspicious for later. I would like to hear Jimboo's response to these accusations, but I think he is extremely suspicious at the moment. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On June 06 2011 11:02 cherubael wrote: + Show Spoiler + Good luck have fun! Cherubael's right, I'm not liking freeloader625 at the moment... This and the comment on the inactivelist is the only relevant information 35spike1 has posted. This leaves him off the list, but he seems to have nothing relevant to say. This seems a little suspicious, so I think that keeping an eye on him would be a good idea, though I wouldn't say he's scum...yet. Wait until after this day to start accusing lurkers of being suspicious or what not. After the first day, voting lists will be drawn up and inactive/lurker lists will be drawn up as well. When that happens we can pressure them - ask them what they think of the situation and why they voted for X. Lurkers have a high chance of being mafia but also a high chance of being a blue role as well. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On June 06 2011 23:59 Kurumi wrote: Oh,about voting: People who voted on freeloader625 and not switched(ever): cherubael teamsolid grush57 People who voted on freeloader625 then swtiched: Treadmill(vote->unvote->vote again) Drazerk -> Treadmill Jimboo -> unvote Lafali -> unvote People who switched on freeloader625: Benjef Treadmill -> freeloader I will try to dig why they have voted on freeloader/changed their votes/dropped the case. The scummiest guy? As for now,it would be Lafali;gtrsrs case is the thing I will get into in a quick moment,because there's a bit of content to analysis,but mostly when "weaker' player attacks "stronger" player it is overeager Townie versus Townie. I posted my analysis on Jimboo earlier - I want to see his response and his explanation for quickly turning around despite advocating for restraint. If he doesn't respond with a sufficient response then I will definitely vote for him. As to Lafali, I don't have a clear read on him at all. He's posted a couple of one-liners and a single defensive post as well. Not enough for any serious analysis. In any case, I believe that Jimbooo is definitely the stronger candidate. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On June 07 2011 00:19 Kurumi wrote: Oh also guys,does day end in like 40 minutes? We need to lynch someone in Free's place,God damnit. This way I will get into Treadmill's case now and ask for DT check on gtrsrs at night. I think it ends based on EST which means that we still have another 12(13?) hours to go. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On June 07 2011 03:34 iGrok wrote: Because, as I noted in that post, I wasn't sure. Combined with Jackal's testimony and Kurumi's abrubt change in play, I'd prefer a DT check on him. You know, exactly what I said in that post Hmm. As amazingxkcd has already noted, a DT check wouldn't reveal much about Kurumi. If Kurumi were mafia, he certainly would be selected as the godfather given that the mafia select amongst themselves on night one who the godfather is. Therefore, regardless of whether he is or isn't mafia, we still will have no clue on Day 2 as to his alignment because he could have been town-aligned to begin with, or switched to town-aligned through his godfather powers. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
Therefore, I will be voting to lynch Jimbooo for this day given that I explicitly lined out my arguments against him and he patently refuses to answer them. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On June 07 2011 03:52 iGrok wrote: Usually the GF has to be chosen by the end of D1. I would be shocked if Kurumi was chosen as GF, because a GF would NOT risk being lynched D1 - thats just crazy. According to the rules page, the godfather is selected on night one meaning that the selection of the godfather will be influenced by this day's discussion. And yes it would be pretty crazy to select Kurumi as GF, but the godfather is always a more experienced and active member of the thread and given that we don't see too much of that from anyone. Surprisingly though, Kurumi's response to my post makes me believe that him becoming GF (if he is mafia of course) is not likely to happen. Any thoughts? | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
What do you guys think about Jimbooo considering now that he has turned around from actively participating to avoiding the thread after being called out? | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On June 07 2011 04:05 amazingxkcd wrote: Remember this is a newbie game, so they seem suspicious but that analysis does raise some questions about him. However, what are your thoughts on the other suspects in the current debacle? As to the whole Kurumi situation - I am totally undecided. The erratic nature of his posts makes me want to reserve judgment until further turns. I do, however, agree with his assessment that gtrsrs is an overzealous townie. Unless a user has a history of being aggressive, tunneling onto a more active player at the beginning of the game generally indicates more town-aligned play considering that mafia members want to 'play the field' and hide among the popular consent. Saying that, I don't think his arguments against iGrok are very strong at the moment. Judging by his initial attack on iGrok: On June 06 2011 16:04 gtrsrs wrote: here is my scum hunt you post haiku's in a game where posting anything more than necessary is distracting and derailing you try to find the town's blues so that the mafia can know what they're up against the one thing that the town has as an advantage is that the mafia doesn't know our PRs and here you are spelling the info out for them even if you're not mafia, your two biggest contributions so far are anti-town everyone i encourage you to ##vote: iGrok and watch how he (and others) react as the votes pile up. putting the pressure on someone is a good way to find mafia. watch the people that come to defend him and how they do so and then when he flips red, go after them next i.e. the accusations are that (1) iGrok has been distracting (which has not been true in my opinion especially as day 1 has continued) and that (2) he guessed how many of each role there would be. But if that were true, why would he post that in the general thread, couldn't he just post that in private communication with the other mafia members? This doesn't mean that iGrok is or isn't mafia, but just indicates that gtrsrs' arguments do not have much weight. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On June 07 2011 04:16 Jackal58 wrote: Impervious???? Bah. Obviouscum. Or it could mean that he's a veteran :o). | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On June 07 2011 04:21 Kurumi wrote: GUYS GUYS We need to get a proper lynch moving. I think we should discard gtrsrs and freeloader.(They will slip if they're mafia) We're really undecided who to lynch. There has been no real case against anybody and I'd rather stay with my Treadmill vote. The bad part about Treadmill's lynch is the fact I am kind of pushing for it and You don't want to listen to me (despite two people I believe) I strongly suggest moving votes from freeloader. His lynch will give us nothing. I see a couple of problems with the Treadmill vote. Quoting from your initial accusation of Treadmill: On June 07 2011 00:36 Kurumi wrote: So let's compare CrjNinja's thoughts here and Treadmill's here The thing that is seen from the very beginning is that Treadmill's post lacks colours,while Crjninja takes stance about some people and calls them town or scum. Treadmill's expressions about people are really vague:
He does not understand cherubael's case,but does nothing to defend/talk about it at all. He looks like he has strong believing on grush57,but does make any move to prove us that he indeed slipped Mafia. Are we going to lynch someone on day 1 on the basis that their posts are vague? Considering that this is day 1, nearly all posts would be vague in that sense since we have little information to base any accusations off of. Treadmill has been a bit wishy-washy as you say as well, but he has stuck to the freeloader vote (however, misguided that may be) meaning that he is not afraid to put himself in the line of fire (which a mafia would want to do). At the very least, he is contributing more which means that we can analyze his later posts - any drop off in activity during a period of pressure would be highly suspicious. I think that Jimbooo is a better candidate for the lynch at the moment given his complete reversal. He is even more 'vague' as you say in his posts and reverses his decision at the first moment of opposition indicating his desire to please. Furthermore, since he hasn't responded to any of my accusations yet has been on TL, hes intentionally avoiding this thread for a reason. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On June 07 2011 05:16 Jimbooo wrote: Sorry for not replying to accusations against me , I really didnt know what to say. My vote was way to early , which was the reason i retracted it. I don't have anything else to say at this point. Ok, just answer a couple of questions. (1) What convinced you that freeloader was not a mafia after you had voted for him? Was it the defending that other people had done for him? (2) Why didn't you respond to my initial analysis of you when you had clearly posted in other threads? (3) Sort of related to (2), but why has your activity dropped off substantially from your initially bright start? | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On June 07 2011 05:38 Jackal58 wrote: You guys want to vote for scum? Vote this guy - rookie44: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=9611408 Has played before so he has an idea how it works. Very subtle in his fishing for blues. Only scum fish for blues. Wants to know what methods and tactics are used to catch scum. Wants us to share them with everybody. Claims it will help derail scum tactics. When it will obviously do the opposite. Has all but disappeared since this post. I'm sure he'll show up momentarily to tell me how full of shit I am. That's where my vote is going. I would recommend you all do the same. Would you mind doing a post-by-post analysis of rookie44's posts? (There are only 3) Right now I can't really see how subtly he is fishing for blues. After all, we don't know how experienced he really is, so I would like a little more clarification as to your accusation. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On June 07 2011 09:30 Jackal58 wrote: I want to encourage all of you to think critically and independently.I have seen to many games where town herp derps themselves into oblivion by following one individual. If you have misgivings and doubts about my analysis on rookie by all means bring it up for discussion. If you believe you have found a better alternative by all means bring it forward. Its a bit difficult to cast doubts on your opinions when you respond to people like this: But I think that's irrelevant at the moment. In my opinion, rookie44 sounds more like a new user who has been picked on for something he is entirely unaware of. Your argument is that he is clearly blue-fishing by asking for clarification on strategy. But how would that work? It seems like he is asking more to the expert players in the game as to how he's asking for more generic ideas as to how the detectives and other blues should act. It is not conclusive as to whether he is genuinely asking for how the game should be played or whether he is actually fishing for blues. In any case, I think that we have a stronger case against Jimbooo simply because of his change in posting behavior from the moment that he started the game until now. I am not convinced at all by his answers. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On June 07 2011 21:36 35spike1 wrote: Everybody is bad during the first few days, we don't have enough content to get anything solid. Jackal is stll in the clear IMO. He just got unlucky, and everybody jumped on it. The weird thing is, why did everyone jump on it? I'm going to continue to hammer on Jimbooo here. Just when I was building up support for a Jimbooo lynch and had put some pressure on him, the vote got hijacked to focus on rookie instead. People seemed to slide right pass the Jimbooo issue and dismissed him as a new person despite my very clear reasons to vote for him. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On June 07 2011 08:28 Vain wrote: Ok, i guess you're right. His posts didn't really contribute and now with the knowledge of that there is a thread for mafia alone freeloader isn't really a viable option too. So with that my vote will also be on Rookie for the sake of voting. 4 hours remaining but i'm going to bed so my vote is final. Goodnight What is this? If anything, this is the softest justification I have heard yet about voting for rookie. One minute (see my earlier post) he does a post-by-post analysis of rookie and concludes that rookie "doesn't ring his scum bell" and the next, he decides to lynch rookie on the basis that "he doesn't contribute". There were a couple of other candidates who had a significant body of evidence against them (Jimbooo, Drazerk, amazingxkcd as well) and yet Vain votes for rookie on the basis that rookie doesn't contribute and that freeloader isn't a viable option. | ||
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