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[G] Zerg vs Terran Guide

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 09:13:30
April 12 2011 20:42 GMT
#1
Hi guys, me again, this will be my third guide thus completing the zerg matchups. I originally was only going to cover my ZvZ, but thanks to everyone's encouraging feedback here we are completing the set.

My ZvZ guide is located: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=199583)

My ZvP guide is located: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=210354

My ZvP later lair guide : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=259629

Would like to put here thanks to TrueRedemption for fixing my terrible grammar and making everything easier to read!


I am currently in the grandmaster league with 256 points (823 points masters before grandmaster). I will be going over my unit compositions and showcasing my overall game plan in as much detail as I can, complete with replays. If you have any questions or are interested in additional topics / replays just let me know .

Please note that I do not use infestors until late game, I personally prefer other approaches, and will not be covering the infestor mid-game style in this guide.

My overall gameplan is/ling/bane/muta (about 12-15 mutas normally with +1 attack) with a tactical focus on setting up flanks. As If all goes well and I have enough income I am for a ling/bane/infestor/ultra and broodlords late game.


--------Build--------

9 - overlord
9 - drone scout (I do this to see if he's getting gas or 2 rax)
15 - hatchery
14- spawning pool (I do this at 16 if I do not see a 2 rax or see a gas / cc first)
17-18- overlord (depending on if you pool on 16 or not)
18-19 - gas .
22-24- overlord (your preference)

24-27 (your preference)- Roach warren.
as soon as spawning pool finishes make 2 queens.

I make 6 roaches, 2 for defense, 4 for pressure. The point of these 4 roaches is not to do damage or kill your opponent. The point is to try to reveal his tech (lots of hellions, tank, banshee). At the minimum you will probably force a bunker, but dont' sacrifice these 4 roaches unless you are guaranteed to be killing scv's and stuff, dont' let them die to a ton of marines, and if there is a tank pull back. I get ling speed after I make the initial 6 roaches unless I need more roaches for some all in or something.

32-34 - Sacrifice an overlord in your opponents base in attempt to scout his tech. If you see tech lab starport you know to prepare for banshee, if you see a CC already done then you can drone super hard. If you can't find anything you need to keep lings near the front of his base to determine expansion timing. If they stay on 1 base to long expect banshee/blue flame hellions.
You should be droning pretty hard unless you think he's doing some sort of early aggression or some sort of all in.

I go lair after I take a third (unless I see banshee's or something). So I take a third, take my gases, go lair, drop a baneling nest. thats my order after the roaches while droning and what not.

Put your baneling nest up with your next 100 minerals/50 gas.

When you reach lair quickly start baneling speed.. If he fast expands you can take a third pretty quickly and be able to hold any sort of marine/tank push with a well setup flank. Make a spire with your next 200/200 minerals/gas.

Start getting upgrades when you get your third with your gases mining (so 6 gas). Do melee/carapace.


--------Opening build 2--------

9 - overlord
9 - drone scout (I do this to see if he's getting gas or 2 rax)
15 - hatchery
14- spawning pool (I do this at 16 if I do not see a 2 rax or see a gas / cc first)
17-18- overlord (depending on if you pool on 16 or not)
Spawning pool finishes - 2 queens
Spine crawler
22-24- overlord (your preference)
3rd queen
5 minutes - gas
5:30-6 minutes- Roach warren.
6:15-6:30 - 2nd + third gas
ling speed with 100 gas
start lair
get 4'th gas
baneling nest with first 50 gas after starting lair

This version of the opener is getting gas later, roach warren later. The times I put are about roughly where I put my gas down and roach warren down most of the time. You can do a timing I do where as soon as you start the third queen and its x point done (your decision no right/wrong really) you start your gas.

Now I go roaches but I do not ever commit to them unless he is going mech. By commit I mean I don't get speed upgrade, and I only make about 6 just to get map control from the terran so I can take my third sooner.

32-34 - Sacrifice an overlord in your opponents base in attempt to scout his tech. If you see tech lab starport you know to prepare for banshee, if you see a CC already done then you can drone super hard. If you can't find anything you need to keep lings near the front of his base to determine expansion timing. If they stay on 1 base to long expect banshee/blue flame hellions.
You should be droning pretty hard unless you think he's doing some sort of early aggression or some sort of all in.


When you reach lair quickly start baneling speed.. If he fast expands you can take a third pretty quickly and be able to hold any sort of marine/tank push with a well setup flank. Make a spire with your next 200/200 minerals/gas.

Start getting upgrades when you get your third with your gases mining (so 6 gas). Do melee/carapace.


Thats the basics, next I'll describe why I do this build, and some of the details I've picked up along the way.

The 9 drone scout is important to see if he's getting a refinery or 2 rax, as this will heavily play into what to do as soon as my hatch + spawning pool finish. A 15 hatch is safe vs 2 rax if you know its coming and defend properly.

If the drone scouts a refinery, CC first, or 1 rax CC, I delay my pool in favor of squeezing out 2 more drones, and you can get roaches out in time for hellions or any marine/hellion push.

The biggest "threat" that I see is proxy 2 rax and I'm going to be blunt I have only faced proxy 2 rax once. I was able to hold, but he wasn't very good so take that for what its worth.

I get my gas at about 5 minutes because I like the extra minerals, it really helps when drone pumping and this build still gets roaches out in time for any marine push etc. Honestly in my opinion you do not desperately need speedlings so early in this match-up.

I typically go hive tech either right before or just as I start my 2/2 upgrades (melee/carapace). This is again simply a timing I like, feel free to do something different if you wish



Unit compositions vs Terran bio
+ Show Spoiler +
So I like to start off with Roach/speedling/baneling. I delay muta's but my overall unit composition will be muta/ling/roach/baneling.

The early game unit composition is Roach/ling (adding in banes once baneling nest finishes and the terran moves out, no reason to make them earlier).
I like this unit composition because you can hold any hellion/marine push. Hellion/marauder pushes can be held with pure speedling/roach, especially if you see it coming, making this an overall strong composition early so you don't die. You can also also crush the marine/tank push that hits right before your spire finishes if you flank from 2 sides. Practice using multiple army hotkeys and you will crush it. It feels good .

As I hit Lair and get baneling speed, so rely on that unit mix for a little while.

So your early game is roach/ling/bane, and your mid game is Muta/ling/bane/ on to the late game.

Now for late game I start off with broodlords. When I can I try to add in 2-3 infestors as support for the broodlords. Now if you've been on top of your carapace/melee upgrades all game long here is where you get to cash in, you've been building towards this transition. Its great to do a complete tech switch to ultra's if your broodlords die or you are pushed back.

My late game unit composition is Broodlord/Ling/Bane/infestor. If I can't kill him with this composition I will add inUltra's as well. So if the game goes crazy late it will be ultra/ling/bane/infestors/broodlords.


Defending 2 rax
+ Show Spoiler +
Ok so once you've scouted a 2 rax coming you should make all your larva into lings and put down your spine crawler. If you don't want to make a spine crawler you can still hold, but if you mess up a little bit with your ling micro it will cost you the game. The spine crawler also helps by insuring you don't have to overproduce lings.

You should be able to afford 1 queen maybe 2 when spawning pool finishes, but make sure to prioritize the lings, they are a must to stop the bunker getting up (and pull drones if needed!).

Don't engage his marines unless you know your lings will kill them. After you hold it off, drone as normal while using your lings to scout when the Terran takes an expo or attempts something funky (like 4 rax all in). I still make a roach warren and get my gas at about the usual 18-19. After this proceed as standard.


Engaging the terran army
+ Show Spoiler +
I highly recommend using separate hot keys and separating your units into good spots so that you can hit him from multiple angles, even in the early game.

So for example lets say he does a marine/tank push that I believe hits at around 9 minutes, somewhere around there right before muta's. Your scouting lings should see it coming, and you should immediately put your units into a good flanking position, and when you get the time, attack from both sides. you will utterly crush his army unless you were still droning (which you shouldn't be, you scouted it coming) or supply blocking yourself.

Now lets go into the "midgame". Where you have your muta's/ling/bane/

Try not to let your muta's die as they are not only very useful for stopping drop play, they also pin your opponent by threatening to harass their main. Like early game, when you have time it is good to put your units into flanking positions. This works very well and I do think flanking is not used as much as it should be in zvt right now it is so effective. I can not stress how awesome it is compared to just attacking in 1 direction.
So have your roach/ling/bane in flanking positions, and when he pushes and you engage make sure banelings from the flanks are going for the marines (its hilarious watching them run back to only run into the banelings from that side :D). Try to have your muta's kill the tanks, and have roaches engage marines/tank as well.

Late game with Broodlord/ling/bane/infestor (and leftover muta's to stop drops, try not to let these die they are very critical in stopping drop play from becoming super annoying!). My hotkeys are usually as follows: 1 hotkey for ling/bane, 2nd hotkey with broodlords, and I put infestors on a completely separate hotkey all together. If you can flank awesome, do it, fungal obviously helps a lot and just try not to let your broodlords die stupidly.


Late game Zerg vs Terran
+ Show Spoiler +
So its late game zerg vs terran. You have broodlord/ling/bane/infestor but you just can't seem to kill him or you don't want to risk it. Make sure to get drop tech and try dropping a bunch of adrenal lings into his main, then as their army pulls back you attack. Drop his 4'th base with some ultra's and clean that up. They will be super distracted, allowing you to then attack the front with ultra/ling/bane/infestor with some broodlords.

Do everything you can to take out bases/production facilities but avoid attacking into planetary fortresses in the middle of the map if their being really lame :D.

With the replays I am going to be showcasing you well will see me dealing with drops and late game unit compositions.


Fighting Terran mech
+ Show Spoiler +
Ok so dealing with mech. This can be very frustrating to deal with due to the nature of how strong mech can be. So if you know your opponent is going mech the unit composition I go is roach/ling/bane (with about 12 muta's) just like bio (but with less banelings, I use banelings for the blue flamed hellions!) I do get infestors as well and stop making muta's so that I can neural parasite them and flank with roach/ling/bane and the 12 or so muta's I have. Flanking and neural parasite are very crucial. You should have your army in 2 different control groups and have them in flanking positions so that you can get a full surround when you attack him.

If he is making ghosts (very unlikely or at least I rarely see ghosts in general when I go infestors vs mech). spread your infestors out so EMP doesn't take all their energy away. With flanking and nerual you should absolutely crush his attack and can then counter attack and win the game.

Vs mech is flanking is absolutely critical if you attempt to fight with a ground army. If you can get a full surround you will kill his army so try not to engage in a small choke, or with 1 control group. This will end up dying without killing much and result in much frustration!

Another way is to Try to go hive faster then usual and this time tech straight to broodlords. This is another thing you can do and its been very effective backed with roach/ling/muta support. You can also add in infestors with neural parasite if you have the chance, they also work wonders.

As of right now there I don't have recent replays against mech but I will try to find some and update them in the OP ASAP!


Dealing with Banshee play
+ Show Spoiler +
Ok so you see he's going banshee. Lets assume its with cloak.

Make sure you're making extra queens, and throw down some spore crawlers in good locations (so that if he cloaks your queens can still attack it).

Put 1 in your mineral line, 1 by your spawning pool/roach warren, 2 at your natural. Go lair and with queens keep holding it off. Make a spire immediately and then play the game normally if possible. Try not to take to much damage obviously, but its important to remember to keep droning, he won't have a big ground army to attack yet so you should be fine .

vs 2 port banshee, make more spores then usual, make queens as usual and just hold it at bay until muta's. If defended correctly you won't take enough damage and you should win, 2 port banshee is very all in and relies on doing a ton of damage or winning the game out right.


The nydus worm
+ Show Spoiler +
The Nydus worm. In broodwar nydus networks were a must in every match up (except zvz ).

I feel this has been underused and miss-used. Currently players either all in with it, or attempt something aggressive late game. Well I have been using this in a quite different way! I am using it defensively. Broodwar players should recognize how useful it was to be able to transport units over to a base to defend.

This use of the nydus worm is especially notable in ZvT when bio balls are everywhere. While on smaller maps (eg. Xel'Naga) I don't think nyduses are as "needed" I do believe that on bigger maps (typhon, taldarim altar). But as bigger maps come out and more tournaments use these better bigger maps I expect to see the nydus worm being used more defensively.

I have been incorporating it into my play. Right now I only have 1 good replay to show it off with as you well see me use it defensively and you will see it used when he tries drops or something of that sort. I plan on doing this more and uploading more replays to showcase the strategy.



Dealing with Hellions
+ Show Spoiler +

With this build your roaches should come out in time for the hellions.

If for some reason you see hellions coming and you only have 1 spine crawler, your roach warren isn't done, then just move your drones to your main until you get some roaches out or move them to the spine crawler if he tries to get them.

You do this until you get roaches out.

A few things to do even after roaches are out. Watch and make sure his hellions don't try and be sneaky to kill drones or run up the ramp. To stop ramp run by's just put an evo chamber at the part by the ramp that hellions would go up and you can use your spine + 1 queen to wall that part off.

You can also just put your queen on the ramp, only taking her off when you do larva injects until you feel comfortable that he won't have anymore hellions.

Now when the game progresses to 3-4 bases you will want 3 spine crawlers at each of your bases. The reason for this is because hellions (especially blue flamed) kill drones stupidly fast and if you only have 1 spine crawler he'll get all your drones before that 1 spine kills it. If you have 3 normally you won't lose to many drones unless you clump them up.

I think that covers how to deal with hellions!


Replays:
http://www.mediafire.com/?6upyb0jpsyit7of
http://www.mediafire.com/?bbm6qnd6nq2suzq (replay showcasing nydus worms being used defensively)
http://www.mediafire.com/?qxm3pa713cxh5pl (3 zvt's played on the korean server)
http://www.mediafire.com/?rql1gz84797tcn8 (zvt vs mech)

There is a bo3 series between me and thisisjimmy for a tournament we played,

game 1 showcases how not to engage the terran army.

game 2 and 3 both showcase flanking very well. This is a lot of other games, some long zvt games and 1 with proxy cloaked banshee.

any requests/questions please feel free to post and I will answer to the best of my ability and if you are seeking certain zvt games with certain things happening I shall try to find one/play one to showcase it.

This should be my last guide I write for who knows how long as I did my goal of 1 for each race (zvz/zvt/zvp). Hope these guides help you all out!

I may add more to the guide if I find I've forgotten something, and I hope this helps out my fellow zerg players out there!
When I think of something else, something will go here
Dante.Lass
Profile Joined September 2010
Brazil21 Posts
April 13 2011 00:58 GMT
#2
Nice, quite a lot of grammar mistakes tough!
Alphasquad
Profile Joined August 2010
Austria505 Posts
April 13 2011 01:05 GMT
#3
really nice strategy, roaches seem to be a good addition to ling/bling/muta

as mech is becoming more popular i wonder if you would do the same strategy against
BlackBlood
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia22 Posts
April 13 2011 01:29 GMT
#4
@ blade
do you pressure terran once you've defended a 4 hellion with blue flame? ( i believe this is the opening for mech)

I am not quite sure if I am going to put pressure or expand. At this point in time, terran has the map control with blue flames. should I wait for mutas then get third after that?
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-13 01:35:47
April 13 2011 01:34 GMT
#5
On April 13 2011 10:29 BlackBlood wrote:
@ blade
do you pressure terran once you've defended a 4 hellion with blue flame? ( i believe this is the opening for mech)

I am not quite sure if I am going to put pressure or expand. At this point in time, terran has the map control with blue flames. should I wait for mutas then get third after that?


I wouldn't try pressuring because he'll make a tank right after he's sent out his hellions and take his expo. If you can get your drone to a third then take it then (he won't be pressuring anytime soon his ground army would be way too weak). Just scare them off with roaches, and drone for the most part and make sure to keep something blocking the ramp so he can't sneak by.

Also alot of terrans i play that open blue flame still go marine/tank after so I would scout with an overlord/overseer once you get lair and speed to make sure! If you know he's going mech you don't need many banelings (as you only want banelings for the hellions but not that many)
When I think of something else, something will go here
BlackBlood
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia22 Posts
April 13 2011 01:42 GMT
#6
Thanks for that. I switched from toss to zerg this season 2. And by far ZvT is my weakest match up. This will improve my games! thanks again and more power to you!
dave333
Profile Joined August 2010
United States915 Posts
April 13 2011 01:46 GMT
#7
Very nice guide. I'd like to make a few comments.

What's your opinion of gas steal if you see gas? I like to gas steal whenever I can because that means if they are going for cloaked banshees, they don't have enough gas for cloak. I think it's pretty solid when you can get it done.

And I definitely like roaches in addition to ling/bling/muta. They really make your standing army much stronger, but I think the biggest thing is that its easy to crush their army then remax on roach. Roaches are super strong on the counterattack against lower unit counts, and they are not nearly as larva intensive as lings so during a fight if you miss an inject or something in the heat, you are not punished as badly.

Against mech, roach+muta is all you need against non 3/3 thors, maybe some blings for scvs. If you smell mech, I immediately try to upgrade roach attack because they scale well and you NEED it against strong thors.

The beauty of roach/muta is that mutas are awesome at stealing the DPS away from thors; magic box your mutas and your roaches really stay alive for so long. It's ironic, but your magic boxed mutas become tanks for your roaches to really dish out damage.

Against 3/3 thors...well your stuff melts kind of too fast. By the time they have 3/3 thors you really need to have brood lords and roaches to fight him because 3/3 thors are crazy. But usually they try an initial push while on 2 base, which if you prepare for correctly with roach/muta, you can crush and just gg it right there. It's harder when they turtle hard and get 3 bases and just go for the 200/200 deathball. I think you need to discuss the need to absolutely take the whole map and tech hard to BLs and play it out with tech switches/harass.

Obviously if the guy has tanks he won't have as many thors so your magic boxed mutas and do some pwnage anyway.
dave333
Profile Joined August 2010
United States915 Posts
April 13 2011 01:47 GMT
#8
On April 13 2011 10:46 dave333 wrote:
Very nice guide. I'd like to make a few comments.

What's your opinion of gas steal if you see gas? I like to gas steal whenever I can because that means if they are going for cloaked banshees, they don't have enough gas for cloak. I think it's pretty solid when you can get it done.

And I definitely like roaches in addition to ling/bling/muta. They really make your standing army much stronger, but I think the biggest thing is that its easy to crush their army then remax on roach. Roaches are super strong on the counterattack against lower unit counts, and they are not nearly as larva intensive as lings so during a fight if you miss an inject or something in the heat, you are not punished as badly.

Against mech, roach+muta is all you need against non 3/3 thors, maybe some blings for scvs. If you smell mech, I immediately try to upgrade roach attack because they scale well and you NEED it against strong thors.

The beauty of roach/muta is that mutas are awesome at stealing the DPS away from thors; magic box your mutas and your roaches really stay alive for so long. It's ironic, but your magic boxed mutas become tanks for your roaches to really dish out damage.

Against 3/3 thors...well your stuff melts kind of too fast. By the time they have 3/3 thors you really need to have brood lords and roaches to fight him because 3/3 thors are crazy. Neural parasite is real good too. But usually they try an initial push while on 2 base, which if you prepare for correctly with roach/muta, you can crush and just gg it right there because a strong roach/bling counterattack will kill them easy. It's harder when they turtle hard and get 3 bases and just go for the 200/200 deathball. I think you need to discuss the need to absolutely take the whole map and tech hard to BLs and play it out with tech switches/harass.

Obviously if the guy has tanks he won't have as many thors so your magic boxed mutas and do some pwnage anyway.

blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
April 13 2011 01:49 GMT
#9
On April 13 2011 10:46 dave333 wrote:
Very nice guide. I'd like to make a few comments.

What's your opinion of gas steal if you see gas? I like to gas steal whenever I can because that means if they are going for cloaked banshees, they don't have enough gas for cloak. I think it's pretty solid when you can get it done.

And I definitely like roaches in addition to ling/bling/muta. They really make your standing army much stronger, but I think the biggest thing is that its easy to crush their army then remax on roach. Roaches are super strong on the counterattack against lower unit counts, and they are not nearly as larva intensive as lings so during a fight if you miss an inject or something in the heat, you are not punished as badly.

Against mech, roach+muta is all you need against non 3/3 thors, maybe some blings for scvs. If you smell mech, I immediately try to upgrade roach attack because they scale well and you NEED it against strong thors.

The beauty of roach/muta is that mutas are awesome at stealing the DPS away from thors; magic box your mutas and your roaches really stay alive for so long. It's ironic, but your magic boxed mutas become tanks for your roaches to really dish out damage.

Against 3/3 thors...well your stuff melts kind of too fast. By the time they have 3/3 thors you really need to have brood lords and roaches to fight him because 3/3 thors are crazy. But usually they try an initial push while on 2 base, which if you prepare for correctly with roach/muta, you can crush and just gg it right there. It's harder when they turtle hard and get 3 bases and just go for the 200/200 deathball. I think you need to discuss the need to absolutely take the whole map and tech hard to BLs and play it out with tech switches/harass.

Obviously if the guy has tanks he won't have as many thors so your magic boxed mutas and do some pwnage anyway.


Gas stealing is fine, I don't do it very much but I don't see it as a bad thing. I agree its nice to if you don't kill his army quiet (but almost or something) your reinforcing roaches well clean up the rest it is very nice .

I agree roach/muta is very strong vs mech its what I do, but I add lings due to gas starvation ^_^.

If he had 3/3 thors you should be hive and have broodlords and all that fun stuff because yeah 3/3 thors are insanely strong :D.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Arcanefrost
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium1257 Posts
April 13 2011 07:36 GMT
#10
Good stuff
Valor is a poor substitute for numbers.
Lobotomist
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1541 Posts
April 13 2011 07:54 GMT
#11
Could you include your infestation pit timing? Also, do you usually get the infestor energy upgrade to support your ultras? Do you go for two evos or three, usually? If two, I assume you prefer melée over ranged, yes?

Thanks for all the help
Teching to hive too quickly isn't just a risk: it's an ultrarisk
T.O.P. *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Hong Kong4685 Posts
April 13 2011 08:01 GMT
#12
I read that you like to open with mutalisks instead of infestors. How many mutalisks do you make?

Recently, I been having a lot of trouble with mass tank builds. Especially on maps like Typhoon peaks, I see terran go marine, 2 factory tanks. They slowly siege up to my nat with 16 tanks and I don't know what to do.
Oracle comes in, Scvs go down, never a miscommunication.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
April 13 2011 08:46 GMT
#13
On April 13 2011 17:01 T.O.P. wrote:
I read that you like to open with mutalisks instead of infestors. How many mutalisks do you make?

Recently, I been having a lot of trouble with mass tank builds. Especially on maps like Typhoon peaks, I see terran go marine, 2 factory tanks. They slowly siege up to my nat with 16 tanks and I don't know what to do.


Typhon is a very iffy map and hard too engage tanks in general due to the small chokes. Your best bet is too definitely flank his army and hopefully can catch his marines. I'm honestly debating on maps like typhon/xelnaga to go infestor openings but then I feel like mass seige tanks would kill it anyway. I know I have beaten it when they move to the natural and hit from behind + front. Thats really the only way I have been able to do it.

For the muta's I make hmmm at minimum 12 but i make a decent amount to deny drops, harass, but not as many as like idra or anything ^^.

On April 13 2011 16:54 Lobotomist wrote:
Could you include your infestation pit timing? Also, do you usually get the infestor energy upgrade to support your ultras? Do you go for two evos or three, usually? If two, I assume you prefer melée over ranged, yes?

Thanks for all the help


Infestor timing is right when I start 2/2 or thats when I start hive, inestors I try to add in when I get ultra's so about when hive finishes and I start adding in ultra's.

I have 2 evo's, melee/carapace are what I upgrade. And yes infestor energy i do upgrade too support my ultra's or broodlords or both if I have both out. I think 3 evo' and getting ranged attack is too much gas and I am almost always gas starved late game it seems ^_^.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Chaosvuistje
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands2581 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-13 08:58:36
April 13 2011 08:56 GMT
#14
Hi ^^ I would suggest making a small introduction about the overall strategy ( or the big points ), I had to read quite a lot before I even got the gist of the overall strategy.

I like mutalisks in small numbers in certain situations, for example when the terran opened some sort of heavy banshee play. But having a large amount of mutalisks won't be good if the terran decides to go for a 2 base tank marine push if the terran is worth his weight. Seeing as the only thing you have to take out the tanks is mutalisks, and those get pretty dead if there are marines around.

So if I get mutalisks, I only get around 7 or 8 to scout around and harrass occasionally. I need pathogen-infestors to have decent range against marine tank pushes. Else my banelings will surely die.

The other reason I don't get lots of mutalisks is the fact that +3 melee banelings 1HKO scv's. If you have mutalisks constantly harrassing him, his bases will be ridden with turrets. A third or fourth with only one turret is a buffet for a baneling-filled overlord dropping acidic death over the workers. As a terran that isn't being mutalisk harrassed will probably not build many turrets, they will have a hell of a surprise.

Another thing that I like to do in ZvT in the lategame is going Ultralisk baneling versus the marauders. You have to focusfire the banelings with tanks if you want to take them out, and seeing as terrans aren't doing that ( or having a hard time clicking a small green ball between monsters the size of godzilla ) the banelings will roll through the marauders with deadly effectiveness. Its a LOT more mobile than broodlord-infestor combinations and easily rams through any sort of fortification.

On typhon peaks, baneling drops are an absolutely amazing addition if you're facing tank heavy compositions. The many cliffs and chokes don't allow for marines to have a good spread around the tanks making for a reasonably safe path towards bombing the tanks with banelings. That's the way I always bust out of tank contains on that map.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
April 13 2011 09:07 GMT
#15
On April 13 2011 17:56 Chaosvuistje wrote:
Hi ^^ I would suggest making a small introduction about the overall strategy ( or the big points ), I had to read quite a lot before I even got the gist of the overall strategy.

I like mutalisks in small numbers in certain situations, for example when the terran opened some sort of heavy banshee play. But having a large amount of mutalisks won't be good if the terran decides to go for a 2 base tank marine push if the terran is worth his weight. Seeing as the only thing you have to take out the tanks is mutalisks, and those get pretty dead if there are marines around.

So if I get mutalisks, I only get around 7 or 8 to scout around and harrass occasionally. I need pathogen-infestors to have decent range against marine tank pushes. Else my banelings will surely die.

The other reason I don't get lots of mutalisks is the fact that +3 melee banelings 1HKO scv's. If you have mutalisks constantly harrassing him, his bases will be ridden with turrets. A third or fourth with only one turret is a buffet for a baneling-filled overlord dropping acidic death over the workers. As a terran that isn't being mutalisk harrassed will probably not build many turrets, they will have a hell of a surprise.

Another thing that I like to do in ZvT in the lategame is going Ultralisk baneling versus the marauders. You have to focusfire the banelings with tanks if you want to take them out, and seeing as terrans aren't doing that ( or having a hard time clicking a small green ball between monsters the size of godzilla ) the banelings will roll through the marauders with deadly effectiveness. Its a LOT more mobile than broodlord-infestor combinations and easily rams through any sort of fortification.


Ah ok I will throw that in there thanks .

I get about 12-15 muta's I think is normal for me mainly to just nullify drops, harass. baneling drops are good for mineral lines I agree but I tend not too do them, although I am trying too incorporate drop play late game zvt .

Yeah I use fungel/baneling/ultra/ling as I said thats my usual late game unit composition as its very strong, with drop play taking out expansions I think it will be alot better too ^_^.

I will update the main OP so its more clear thanks for the feedback always looking too improve so people can understand it better :D
When I think of something else, something will go here
oGsTheStD
Profile Joined February 2011
United States32 Posts
April 13 2011 09:15 GMT
#16
great guide! congrats on grandmaster!
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
April 13 2011 18:39 GMT
#17
On April 13 2011 18:15 oGsTheStD wrote:
great guide! congrats on grandmaster!


Thanks!

Ok so I just uploaded 4 more replays:

http://www.mediafire.com/?ghgvaa54q7t6ijv

Has me vsing ONElinko, NRGYuY (really good game really recommend watching this one), Viledominon, and Trimaster.

All the games showcase some flanking maneuvers, and how many muta's I normally get about.

I would also like too say I will add an infestor build to this zvt guide at some point once I feel comfortable with the build and all that. Just good too have multiple good zvt strategies that work then just one so expect that sometime in the future!
When I think of something else, something will go here
Shadrak
Profile Joined August 2010
United States490 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-13 19:04:29
April 13 2011 19:03 GMT
#18
This is very similar to the style I play at a much lower level (diamond) but I think the most useful thing you talked about was flanking. We all know we should do it, but I rarely do. Also pre-emptive roaches for hellions are just so great because their armor lets them perform pretty well against rines anyway.

Anyway, very nice guide. I'll be sure to check out the replays when I can.
HelloSon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States456 Posts
April 13 2011 20:00 GMT
#19
Any advice on early hellions as in gas before rax? The early 4 hellions always seem to mess up my economy while they get their FE up.
yo
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
April 13 2011 20:01 GMT
#20
On April 14 2011 05:00 HelloSon wrote:
Any advice on early hellions as in gas before rax? The early 4 hellions always seem to mess up my economy while they get their FE up.


Well you should have a spine crawler done by the time that comes, roaches should be on the way also or seconds from being created, at worst case scenario put your drones from your natural too your main, block ramp with queens till roaches come out or just run by the spine crawler till roaches come out. Both ways work great.
When I think of something else, something will go here
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