|
Zerg vs Protoss Delayed Lair
hi guys here is my second zerg vs protoss guide except this will be a specific build that I have been doing in zvp sense I saw losira/nestea do it in the last gsl (not the august/september one). I love macro oriented play it is how I love to play (anyone who watches my stream knows this or any of my replay packs). While I am not a very creative player, I can see ideas and make slight adjustments that I like and that is what I did when I saw losira/nestea do this style of play  .
So pretty much I thank those high level zergs who can come up with builds I like that I can just make slight adjustments to fit what I like  .
my other guides
zerg vs zerg guide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=199583)
Zerg vs Protoss overall guide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=210354
Zerg vs Terran guide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211960
I have been messing with it sense I saw them do it and have got it to work very well for me and finding it so much stronger then any other zvp style I have tried. I have been messing around with it for at least a month now and as I said have finally got my timings and stuff to where I want them and decided its time to write the guide.
I am not updating the other zvp guide as this is a different style and the other guide is a more over view of zvp strategies. There will be a good amount of replays, and most of them will come from the Korean server as that is where most of my games are played but there will be 1-2 games from NA that I did in the zotac tournament last Saturday (august 20'th).
Overview
+ Show Spoiler +
Against a forge fast expand build you should have a third by about 20 supply.
Against 3 gate expand you should take a third either right when he starts his expo (which can be risky if he cancels and is really 4 gating) or you can take your 3rd when his expo finishes, when you start lair, when you feel you can do it. I have been doing it when he starts his expansion, and if he cancels his expo I will cancel my third and make pure units to hold off a 4 gate canceled nexus.
So the point of this build is to pretty much not go lair until about 8-8:30 minutes. That is when you start it. This gives you a really good economy and amazing production. Of course there are variations depending on what you see, and what your protoss opponent is doing.
This is great if your protoss opponent decides to 6-7 gate all in as you really can produce so much more then a "normal" zvp build where you get a decently fast lair. This is a great way to get like I have said, a very good economy to produce a ton of units and can put pressure on him if he decides to take a greedy third.
You can go into whatever tech path you wish whether that be muta's, infestors, ling/bane, etc. I will put what I personally prefer to do, but again you can do pretty much any unit composition you want.
Basic build order
9 - overlord
15 - pool/hatch (your preference)
18-19 - gas (your choice, normally after spawning pool finishes is my timing)
leave only 1 guy on gas after you start metabolic boost
18-21 - third base (only vs forge expand, can be put down after protoss starts his natural read overview for a more detailed view)
27-35 - Roach warren (this is very dependent on if he is 3 gate fe'ing/4gate if he forge fast expands make it same time you start lair)
6:15-6:20 - make an evo chamber
7:15-7:45 - start +1 carapace
7:30-7:45 - put both drones back on gas, Get your 2nd gas at main, + 1 at natural
8:00-8:30 - Go lair
Overview of why I do it this way
+ Show Spoiler +Ok so that's the basic build order. Now to explain some things. For starters I put the time in the build order because I can't remember the supply, and many things can happen to make the supply different like if he does pressure and you lose say 1-2 drones or you lose some lings, can mess up so just put the time I do stuff.
Ok so my first explanation is the ling speed, you want to get ling speed but not rush for it. You just want it to really deny scouting, or if he happens to be 4 gating you will have roaches and speedlings. If he is doing some blink stalker all in you have speedlings and can make roaches. Speedlings are also good to look for sneaky pylons and what not.
The roach warren timing can be delayed if he forge fast expands (like you can get it at like 7-8 minutes if you want).
The evo chamber is for possible DT/Voidray/Phoenix. If he forge fast expands and my sacrificial overlord see's nothing I well blindly make spore crawlers. You get a lot of minerals with this build so again if you lose it will not be because you made a spore at each base. If I see voidray/phoenix after I blindly make 1 at each base I will make another 1 at each base.
If he 3 gate expands and I see you know 5-6 sentries you know he's not fast teching to dt's or void rays so then I won't make spores.
I get the +1 carapace because this effects both roaches and lings. These 2 are the core unit for awhile so why not have both be affected by an upgrade rather then just one of them. If you dislike this you can do melee or ranged that is of course your choice.
My Transition
+ Show Spoiler +So after lair tech finishes I get roach speed, +2 carapace and start +1 melee normally, get an infestation pit. You should be able to afford getting a macro hatch while going to lair so do that as well. I then go roach/ling/infestors for awhile and if I can't kill him due to him successfully defending, then I will tech to hive and get broodlords. I will normally get a hydra den so that I can add in hydra's if I see he is making void rays to try to counter broodlords. If the game goes long enough and he's going stalker/colossi I'll add in ultra's with the broodlords and infestors. That is my main strategy. Even with the infestor nerf, I do not believe it well be that bad at all and from what I saw from people doing the statistics, the patch nerf won't affect this at all (well ultra's come out faster ). I get carapace/melee upgrades as it affects broodlings and of course ultra's as well.
Replays:
http://www.mediafire.com/?cdc0ty8jcp39kw8 (blade vs obsidian)
Analysis: Shakuras plateau, he forge fast expands and takes a fast third, showcases the build vs Forge Fast Expand.
http://www.mediafire.com/?bsitlq372qtkfdb (Blade vs oGsTheWind)
Analysis: Showcases the build vs another forge fast expand oh shattered temple. This game is a bit long but showcases how many drones I get and how fast (believe I had 70 by 9 minutes).
http://www.mediafire.com/?162ipbhlycl4www (Blade vs RGNPerfect)
Analysis: This showcases the build vs Forge Fast Expand on taldarim where he 9 gate all ins. I have 64 drones at 9 minutes, make a bad engagement but due to my good economy can still hold. If I hadn't been cocky with my army early I could have held this a lot easier so remember that!
http://www.mediafire.com/?mxm1bdftbpvgjgy (Blade vs SoulMvP)
Analysis: I don't know if this guy is actually in MVP I doubt it so don't think thats why I chose this game. This game showcases this build vs a blink stalker all in on taldarim. Showcases the amount of spines I can make while producing units to eventually hold this off.
http://www.mediafire.com/?u3i5p28hjheqqhp (Blade vs korean name)
Analysis: He goes heavy phoenixes, cross positions taldarim, he forge fast expands and then proceeds to go all in with mostly blink stalkers with the phoenixes.
http://www.mediafire.com/?77qyozv07156t51 (Blade vs winStorm)
Analysis: He goes voidray expand/3 gate. He goes fast air but this shows the build vs a non forge fast expand map.
If I get requests I will add more 3 gate expand replays I just haven't faced that much at all recently, mainly forge FE's.
http://www.mediafire.com/?i9hpugjl67lnoxs (Blade vs korean name)
analysis: He goes 1 gate expand vs my hatch first into 3 gate stargate. He kills my third, but I have a lot of minerals so thats fine. This showcases the build vs a non forge fast expand.
http://www.mediafire.com/?g68v3nl54sexdnx
analysis: Cannon rush!
http://www.mediafire.com/?2te7h5nuhqnznqz
2 forge/zealot cannon rushes and a long macro game. 3 replays.
|
Seeing how the IM team has so much success with this build, I'd gladly try it out. However, after watching coca vs Huk on Xelnaga caverns g2, I think his fast lair + bane drop was really creative and strong. As a zerg player, I'm really tempted to try it because there seems to be no counter to his build except for the timing pushes protoss makes. Thoughts on it?
Thanks for the replays ^_^
btw loving your guides, improved my play a lot.
|
Blade, i feel like making you a fanclub. Your Zerg guides are amazing. Bonus: You're the only non featured streamer i watch. Anyway, that's enough ass-kissing from me.
Awesome post as always. Gonna go watch replays. thanks!
|
On August 27 2011 17:26 Jaxtyk wrote:
Seeing how the IM team has so much success with this build, I'd gladly try it out. However, after watching coca vs Huk on Xelnaga caverns g2, I think his fast lair + bane drop was really creative and strong. As a zerg player, I'm really tempted to try it because there seems to be no counter to his build except for the timing pushes protoss makes. Thoughts on it?
Thanks for the replays ^_^
btw loving your guides, improved my play a lot.
Not trying to be a dick, but did you watch the same game as I did? The game where Huk lost to coca on xelnaga had little to do with coca's build being 'unbeatable'. Huk lost like literally 11 sentries going in with an overaggressive little push when he got ling surrounded outside of coca's natural. That's 1100 gas gone for a handful of lings, any protoss would lose to the baneling drops that followed such a heavy loss. Don't get me wrong, the build coca chose enabled him to get the ling surround and then bling drop, my point is simply that it seemed so effective only due to huk playing aggressively instead of keeping his sentries at home. The guide that blade has typed up here is a far less gimmicky build and will help you learn mechanics and a really solid and scary way to play zvp, Nestea and Losira wouldn't favor a similar style if it didn't work extremely well.
|
On August 27 2011 17:39 RabidSeagull wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 17:26 Jaxtyk wrote:
Seeing how the IM team has so much success with this build, I'd gladly try it out. However, after watching coca vs Huk on Xelnaga caverns g2, I think his fast lair + bane drop was really creative and strong. As a zerg player, I'm really tempted to try it because there seems to be no counter to his build except for the timing pushes protoss makes. Thoughts on it?
Thanks for the replays ^_^
btw loving your guides, improved my play a lot. Not trying to be a dick, but did you watch the same game as I did? The game where Huk lost to coca on xelnaga had little to do with coca's build being 'unbeatable'. Huk lost like literally 11 sentries going in with an overaggressive little push when he got ling surrounded outside of coca's natural. That's 1100 gas gone for a handful of lings, any protoss would lose to the baneling drops that followed such a heavy loss. Don't get me wrong, the build coca chose enabled him to get the ling surround and then bling drop, my point is simply that it seemed so effective only due to huk playing aggressively instead of keeping his sentries at home. The guide that blade has typed up here is a far less gimmicky build and will help you learn mechanics and a really solid and scary way to play zvp, Nestea and Losira wouldn't favor a similar style if it didn't work extremely well.
Coca intended to be aggressive from the start. Isn't that why he got a lair so fast? And I'm sure you know that sentries melt to banes as well as zealots. Say HuK had played defensive with his 11 sentries back home and warped in a couple of zealots. How would things be different?
|
Hmmm.. alright I'll question a couple of things here.
First of all, the fast Roach Warren. Now I know you say that this depends on what you scout ( personally I never get a Roach warren before my evolution chamber, even after my lair in case he is forge expanding ) but still. If you want to do a roach-ling allin timing on his natural if he is 3gate expanding, this is all neat. But I preffer to go for a lot of zerglings to slip between his sentries and punish mistakes that way rather than investing in gas-costing roaches ( which will delay my upgrades and other tech if I make them this early ). In my personal experience, I would only go for a Roach warren that fast if I knew he was going for a 4 gate.
Secondly, the +1 carapace. You start it too late to counter a 4 gate, but its probably in time to be helpful in defending a +1 ground attack 6+ gate all in. But in other cases, the carapace won't actually help your zerglings much. The main damage dealers to zerglings are zealots, which take them out in 3 shots without any upgrades. But even if you get a +1 carapace upgrade, they still get 3 shotted. If stalkers are shooting at your zerglings and his zealots are attacking your roaches, you will win regardless of that upgrade because roaches can kite the zealots. So it will only be beneficial if you are attacking into zealots that happen to be +1 attack with zerglings. If you want to be aggressive with your play but you have gotten an +1 range or a +1 melee upgrade before your carapace upgrade, you can be MUCH more cost-efficient in your engagements. I like the upgrade, but not before any offensive upgrades because it doesn't open any timings and it is only really great against a 6gate +1 all in ( which it will do absolutely great against, no doubt ).
Lastly, you say you take out 2 drones out of gas, which means you won't have enough gas to get a ton of roaches out in the odd case of a 4 gate. It also means that your carapace upgrade will be delayed by a TON if you have to build roaches. So it would actually be beneficial to your opponent to attack you now, force a few roaches and pull back knowing that he delayed your tech for some time. I would leave 2 drones in gas and get your evolution chamber up before your Roach warren gets built. This speeds up the upgrade, strengthening your midgame, while the slightly delayed Roach warren will be in time to slowly but surely defend against a 4 gate all-in.
Just my two cents.
Edit: Whoops, got two paragraphs switched around.
|
On August 27 2011 17:57 Chaosvuistje wrote:
Hmmm.. alright I'll question a couple of things here.
First of all, the fast Roach Warren. Now I know you say that this depends on what you scout ( personally I never get a Roach warren before my evolution chamber, even after my lair in case he is forge expanding ) but still. If you want to do a roach-ling allin timing on his natural if he is 3gate expanding, this is all neat. But I preffer to go for a lot of zerglings to slip between his sentries and punish mistakes that way rather than investing in gas-costing roaches ( which will delay my upgrades and other tech if I make them this early ). In my personal experience, I would only go for a Roach warren that fast if I knew he was going for a 4 gate.
Lastly, you say you take out 2 drones out of gas, which means you won't have enough gas to get a ton of roaches out in the odd case of a 4 gate. It also means that your carapace upgrade will be delayed by a TON if you have to build roaches. So it would actually be beneficial to your opponent to attack you now, force a few roaches and pull back knowing that he delayed your tech for some time. I would leave 2 drones in gas and get your evolution chamber up before your Roach warren gets built. This speeds up the upgrade, strengthening your midgame, while the slightly delayed Roach warren will be in time to slowly but surely defend against a 4 gate all-in.
Just my two cents.
Secondly, the +1 carapace. You start it too late to counter a 4 gate, but its probably in time to be helpful in defending a +1 ground attack 6+ gate all in. But in other cases, the carapace won't actually help your zerglings much. The main damage dealers to zerglings are zealots, which take them out in 3 shots without any upgrades. But even if you get a +1 carapace upgrade, they still get 3 shotted. If stalkers are shooting at your zerglings and his zealots are attacking your roaches, you will win regardless of that upgrade because roaches can kite the zealots. So it will only be beneficial if you are attacking into zealots that happen to be +1 attack with zerglings. If you want to be aggressive with your play but you have gotten an +1 range or a +1 melee upgrade before your carapace upgrade, you can be MUCH more cost-efficient in your engagements. I like the upgrade, but not before any offensive upgrades because it doesn't open any timings and it is only really great against a 6gate +1 all in ( which it will do absolutely great against, no doubt ).
The roach warren timing I do is only vs 3 gate expand (or possible 4 gate). I'll explain why I think this is way superior to just lings. If you are droning and he pushes out and you are only making lings, you are dead. The 3 gate expand into 4-5 gate pressure will kill you (this comes at about 7 minutes I believe).
Sure he can send an army like he's going to attack to force roaches, but the same would be said to a player making lings except you will be making more then a few lings as lings are very larva inefficient so the result is the same.
also if he does a 3 gate expo, but moves out with his army and you are droning again, lings are not very larva efficient. This is why I prefer roaches as roaches are much stronger and don't require as much larva. This is why (imo) this is way superior to stasying pure ling as you have to blindly make lings which could easily be drones.
I take 2 guys out of gas mainly vs forge FE, vs 3 gate (until I see the expansion) I will keep 2 on for a little bit and take 1 out most of the time unless I just have a feeling he's going to do an attack.
the +1 carapace is not meant to come before 4 gate. Never said it was supposed to I just prefer it. This build isn't meant to be aggressive early, it can be later but mainly if he's taking a greedy third, you don't want to attack until infestors are out (which your +2 carapace will be almost done by the time you are going to attack if you are keeping up on upgrades).
Also unless the protoss is map hacking or something there is no way he'll know if you are only keeping 1 drone on gas or not even with taking a fast third if he Forge fast expands. That would be a risky thing to assume and there's no way he will scout that until hallucination finishes or he gets an obs out (which by then you will have started lair and already mining gas).
|
On August 27 2011 18:05 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 17:57 Chaosvuistje wrote:
Hmmm.. alright I'll question a couple of things here.
First of all, the fast Roach Warren. Now I know you say that this depends on what you scout ( personally I never get a Roach warren before my evolution chamber, even after my lair in case he is forge expanding ) but still. If you want to do a roach-ling allin timing on his natural if he is 3gate expanding, this is all neat. But I preffer to go for a lot of zerglings to slip between his sentries and punish mistakes that way rather than investing in gas-costing roaches ( which will delay my upgrades and other tech if I make them this early ). In my personal experience, I would only go for a Roach warren that fast if I knew he was going for a 4 gate.
Lastly, you say you take out 2 drones out of gas, which means you won't have enough gas to get a ton of roaches out in the odd case of a 4 gate. It also means that your carapace upgrade will be delayed by a TON if you have to build roaches. So it would actually be beneficial to your opponent to attack you now, force a few roaches and pull back knowing that he delayed your tech for some time. I would leave 2 drones in gas and get your evolution chamber up before your Roach warren gets built. This speeds up the upgrade, strengthening your midgame, while the slightly delayed Roach warren will be in time to slowly but surely defend against a 4 gate all-in.
Just my two cents.
Secondly, the +1 carapace. You start it too late to counter a 4 gate, but its probably in time to be helpful in defending a +1 ground attack 6+ gate all in. But in other cases, the carapace won't actually help your zerglings much. The main damage dealers to zerglings are zealots, which take them out in 3 shots without any upgrades. But even if you get a +1 carapace upgrade, they still get 3 shotted. If stalkers are shooting at your zerglings and his zealots are attacking your roaches, you will win regardless of that upgrade because roaches can kite the zealots. So it will only be beneficial if you are attacking into zealots that happen to be +1 attack with zerglings. If you want to be aggressive with your play but you have gotten an +1 range or a +1 melee upgrade before your carapace upgrade, you can be MUCH more cost-efficient in your engagements. I like the upgrade, but not before any offensive upgrades because it doesn't open any timings and it is only really great against a 6gate +1 all in ( which it will do absolutely great against, no doubt ). The roach warren timing I do is only vs 3 gate expand (or possible 4 gate). I'll explain why I think this is way superior to just lings. If you are droning and he pushes out and you are only making lings, you are dead. The 3 gate expand into 4-5 gate pressure will kill you (this comes at about 7 minutes I believe). Sure he can send an army like he's going to attack to force roaches, but the same would be said to a player making lings except you will be making more then a few lings as lings are very larva inefficient so the result is the same. also if he does a 3 gate expo, but moves out with his army and you are droning again, lings are not very larva efficient. This is why I prefer roaches as roaches are much stronger and don't require as much larva. This is why (imo) this is way superior to stasying pure ling as you have to blindly make lings which could easily be drones. I take 2 guys out of gas mainly vs forge FE, vs 3 gate (until I see the expansion) I will keep 2 on for a little bit and take 1 out most of the time unless I just have a feeling he's going to do an attack. the +1 carapace is not meant to come before 4 gate. Never said it was supposed to I just prefer it. This build isn't meant to be aggressive early, it can be later but mainly if he's taking a greedy third, you don't want to attack until infestors are out (which your +2 carapace will be almost done by the time you are going to attack if you are keeping up on upgrades). Also unless the protoss is map hacking or something there is no way he'll know if you are only keeping 1 drone on gas or not even with taking a fast third if he Forge fast expands. That would be a risky thing to assume and there's no way he will scout that until hallucination finishes or he gets an obs out (which by then you will have started lair and already mining gas).
Fair enough, I can see why you would want to get out that Roach warren if you are going for larvae efficiency. And thanks for the explanation of the choice between 1 drone or two drones on gas depending on what you scout.
My own ZvP play relies heavily on aggression in the early and the midgame. And as such I prefer a lot of lings because they can attempt to deny the natural in the case that he is trying for a greedy 1gate expand or mismicros with his forcefields and zealots. Because delaying or denying the natural for the protoss will QUICKLY make the game spiral out of his control. With two queens up at my natural and main I can also drone up a lot behind the attack ( and get a proportionate amount of drones vs units ) because I can scout everything his army consists of and can base my future decisions on that.
This play completely turns around if I scout a forge fast expand ( which I generally find a much harder to deal with opening if he decides to turtle up to a third base because I can't get my lings to pressure him much. ) but in either case, a quicker +2 melee or +2 range in the midgame will work wonders against any 6gate pressure afterwards where you really need roaches to defend.
|
Thanks for the guide. Just what I need for my ZvP as it hasn't been to good lately.
|
Could you please upload more reps against non-forge expand when you get them?
Also, with this late lair if he goes dts or even stargate with his expo (1-2 gate stargate expo etc.) he will be able to deny your third because you have late lair...what do you do in this case?
|
When do you take ur 3rd.
That is my single question.
I have also been messing around with this build a bit and I have been trying to do 4 hatch (3 bases, 1 macro) before lair while blindly throw up spine/spores, but the timing feels awkward. So when do you take a 3rd?
|
I see no reason not to take your third instead of throwing down a macro hatch when you tech lair. This is of course map dependant, but in most cases protoss cant really threaten a roachling army with just pure gateway units, so you should be safe to expand.
|
Many many thanks for this
i was wondering; i saw you start lair at about 8minutes, which is when a lot of timing pushes happen. If you see some kind of strong timing coming would you delay lair for more units, or do you feel the benefits of lair tech are still necessary at that point?
|
Blade you're a boss and I love your guides. But PLEASE start using a site like drop.sc or sc2rep.com for your replays! Downloading <1mb files from mediafire one a time is such a bitch T_T Alternatively put them in a zip file with names that clearly tie them to your analysis. Thanks a lot for the insight though! Will definitely try using this in the next few days <3
|
I do think this is likely the correct overall way to play vs FFE's, but I am not sure so sure vs. other builds. I think the late Lair is particularly good because there is nothing you "need" to stop the 9:30-10 6/7/9 gate all ins, 7:30 DTs, or 8 min VR/Phoenix.
I want to talk about +1 armor though... The problem is this: It ONLY helps Lings vs Zealots in a noticeable way and ONLY if they get +1. Sure it will improve Ling vs Sentry dmg a bit, but come on, that is not a concern even with +1 Protoss Attack. +1 Melee, however, ALWAYS helps Lings vs everything and will stack in faster +3 Melee for BLs or Ultras. +1 Missile is awesome if you want to transition Ling Roach to Roach Infestor Hydra against the standard Death Ball.
Furthermore, if you do NOT start the upgrade for any Zerg Level 1 +1 BEFORE 7 minutes it will NOT finish in time for a nice crisp 6 gate +1, or 7 gate or anything except the delayed Blink Stalker push or a badly executed big push. Cutting 50 gas off of the upgrade cost means the upgrade can start 28 in game seconds sooner! Which means your 7:15 upgrade is not a 6:50 upgrade and WILL finish in time almost no matter what.
|
United States8476 Posts
Just a few spelling mistakes I'd like to point out.
Intro:
Idea's should be ideas
Overview:
patch should be path
|
Update:
If you start your gas at 3 min, and at 100 gas you pull out 2 guys, and build an Evo chamber at 6 minutes, you will have 100 gas at 6:45 for +1 Missile/Melee. Lingspeed finishes at 6:15, good for 4 gates, and +1 finishes just before 9:30.
This gas timing accounts for both 4 gate and 6 gate/similar idea pushes, while allowing you money for a 3rd hatch around 7 minutes, HUGE creep spread (both of your 2 Queens can put down Tumors with first 25 energy).
|
From what I read in your post, you didn't go over when you take your thirds. Now I do know if you play this style against FFE you're suppose to take a third right before your natural hatch finishes. But what's the timing for your third against 3 gate expos?
It'd be nice to see a little note in your post of when that third goes up.
|
On August 27 2011 18:24 CtrlAltDefeat wrote:
Could you please upload more reps against non-forge expand when you get them?
Also, with this late lair if he goes dts or even stargate with his expo (1-2 gate stargate expo etc.) he will be able to deny your third because you have late lair...what do you do in this case?
Yeah I well when I face some, really I am surprised lately at how rare i play that build. I almost only play against Forge expand now of days so I'll surely do that .
On August 27 2011 18:34 evanthebouncy! wrote:
When do you take ur 3rd.
That is my single question.
I have also been messing around with this build a bit and I have been trying to do 4 hatch (3 bases, 1 macro) before lair while blindly throw up spine/spores, but the timing feels awkward. So when do you take a 3rd?
I guess I did forget to mention the third. Against forge expand you should have a third by 20 supply about. I always get my third as fast as I can if I see forge expand.
vs 3 gate expand the third timing can go down either right when he starts his expansion (which can be risky if he cancels and 4 gates), or after you start lair. I do normally take my third pretty fast against 3 gate expo unless he opens 1 base void rays then you have to kind of delay till lair (or if you kill his voidray and he never made another).
I'll add it into the OP thanks for that!
On August 27 2011 19:06 Zrana wrote:Many many thanks for this i was wondering; i saw you start lair at about 8minutes, which is when a lot of timing pushes happen. If you see some kind of strong timing coming would you delay lair for more units, or do you feel the benefits of lair tech are still necessary at that point?
Well normally the timing attacks happen at about 8:45-9 minutes I believe when the attacks actually start. So your lair should be almost done or done by the time he does attack. But if he is doing that super fast 5-6 gate push after forge expand (which I believe hits at about 7:30-8 minutes) then yes I would delay lair to make more units. Even though you could probably still afford the 150/100 and hold just fine.
On August 27 2011 19:45 igLeX wrote:
Blade you're a boss and I love your guides. But PLEASE start using a site like drop.sc or sc2rep.com for your replays! Downloading <1mb files from mediafire one a time is such a bitch T_T Alternatively put them in a zip file with names that clearly tie them to your analysis. Thanks a lot for the insight though! Will definitely try using this in the next few days <3
Thanks, I can do that never used either of the sites drop.sc or sc2rep.com I can't ever figure out how to upload or it never shows up.
|
Do you think that if a player is still learning how to play Zerg (im a plat player that switched to Z like a week ago and am still having some trouble even with fundamentals) that this build would be better to use than that Destiny timing attack into double expand?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
