Zerg versus Protoss Guide
Hi guys I got such good positive feedback on my last guide (zvz hatch first vs 14/14 located here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=199583) that I decided to make one vs protoss.
My other guide for zerg vs terran: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211960
Zerg vs Protoss guide delayed lair: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=259629
I am constantly in the top 100 grandmaster on the North american server..
I well be covering a lot of aspects such as the dreaded deathball (colossi/voidray/ground army) with replays. The normal toss ball of stalker/sentry/zealot/colossi, holding off cannon rushes when going hatch first with replays to suite.
I will try to go as in depth as possible. I will answer questions to the best of my knowledge which I feel I did very good at with my first guide.
So this first part will be hatch first and the build I do in like 99% of the games I play when I get my hatch down first.
--------Build--------
9 - overlord
13 - Drone scout (personal preference again like to see if they forge first or not)
15 - hatchery
14- spawning pool (can be 16 if you wish)
17- overlord
17-18- gas
as soon as spawning pool finishes make 2 queens. I add a spine crawler due to the fact that most toss players do a stalker/zealot push when they see hatch first if they don't cannon rush.
22-24- overlord
27-30 (your preference)- Roach warren.
some notes to take from this:
Also to stop pylon blocks, have a drone either on halt position at the ramp, or follow the probe and if he looks like he's going to do it, hold position on ramp!
Grab 2 watch towers with your lings as its useful.
If you can, have an overlord check to see if their taking their natural or not or lings your choice (I do both to make sure they don't cancel it or whatever when possible).
If your lings scout his expansion go up and you run away, check again to make sure its still going. This is to stop if he cancels and decides to go 4 gate.
This build is what I do every game about when i get hatch first down (roach warren comes in good timing to get roaches for 4 gate). You can pick to get ling speed on your preference. I tend to like early roaches more then early speedlings especially vs 4 gate as I find slowlings (till speed finishes) + lots of roaches and 2 spines should hold a 4 gate no problem.
When you get to lair get burrow, and burrow movement asap. This is just incase they do a 5 gate all in or anything to that sort. Doesn't hurt either as burrowed roaches are always useful all game long. Some games you well not see this because I hadn't started doing it till after MLG. I would also add in overlord speed for scouting purposes.
I get my spire at kind of random times normally when I see a robo but don't make corruptors until you see the first colossi.
Lair timing is up to you (if you think dt's are coming of course go lair faster). I personally prefer to go lair later and get a better economy unless I think he's going DT's. This is up to you as the player to what you prefer.
Now that the builds laid down lets go over scenarios.
Unit compositions vs standard protoss play
+ Show Spoiler +
By standard protoss play I am meaning sentry/stalker/colossi/zealot and all that. My unit composition I use is the standard roach/hydra/corruptor. So its nothing new or fancy. While some zerg players think hydra are useless (I do agree they are very weak and way slow but I still think their useful vs gateway units so I add them).
So first thing you should be doing all game is scouting constantly with your lings. Once lair hits and you get overlord speed you should be throwing overlords over the opponent's main to see his tech, his natural, and sometimes into his army.
Once you see the first colossi out, that is when you start making corruptors. You do NOT want to make corruptors blindly as if the opponent is doing a stalker/zealot/sentry/immortal army you will lose. You will get destroyed. So after you see the first colossi out that is when you make corruptors.
Your spire should be done so you shouldn't die to any silly 2 colossi attack or anything.
You should be taking your third base at a decent time. Personally I like to scout his main/nat before taking my third with speed overlord to see if he's possibly doing a 5-6 gate all in. If he is I delay my third and just hold off his attack and then win the game (or get supply capped and lose :D).
You get double evo chambers once you get all 3 bases going with gas as that is when getting upgrades is the right idea. That is at least what I do as roach/hydra/corruptor is pretty gas intensive
![](/mirror/smilies/smile.gif)
I like to start my hive once I start upgrading 2-2 as it feels like a really good timing to me this is of course personal preference.
Now for the actual engagement of the stalker/zealot/colossi/sentry army. Have your corruptors focus fire the colossi one at a time (have them contaminate to!) and try to engage in a non choke area. If you engage in a choke it will be alot harder for you to fight his army due to the power of force fields.
another thing to note is you should be remacroing out of all your hatcheries as soon as the fighting starts. So your either remaking roaches or hydra's (both) and lings if you don't have the gas. Don't forget to larva inject as well. This is very crucial as his army will probably still kill yours but your reinforcements well take care of the rest.
Now how to fight the dreaded deathball (that being voidray/colossi/etc.
Fighting the Protoss deathball
+ Show Spoiler +
Now this part won't be to detailed sense this pretty much applies almost the same as the normal toss ball.
So killing the dreaded deathball with roach/hydra/corruptor you can not A move. If you just A move your army will be obliterated and he will have almost all of his units still. you have to micro this effectively. You can A move with roach/hydra if you want but corruptors are very very key in this fight. You have to focus the colossi, not the void rays or phoenix if he has those. If you do NOT focus the colossi your army again will be obliterated.
If you focus fire the colossi with corruptors your army should still die but your reinforcements of roach/hydra/lings will take care of his army. As long as your still macroing during the whole fight if he tries to kill you, your reinforcements well kill his army and even if he's on 3 bases you should win no problem as you will be in a very very good position.
If he's on 2 bases well you know you won there's no way he's coming back after losing his 2 base deathball.
And yes there will be replays of me doing this to toss players so don't worry about that ^_^.
So killing the dreaded deathball with roach/hydra/corruptor you can not A move. If you just A move your army will be obliterated and he will have almost all of his units still. you have to micro this effectively. You can A move with roach/hydra if you want but corruptors are very very key in this fight. You have to focus the colossi, not the void rays or phoenix if he has those. If you do NOT focus the colossi your army again will be obliterated.
If you focus fire the colossi with corruptors your army should still die but your reinforcements of roach/hydra/lings will take care of his army. As long as your still macroing during the whole fight if he tries to kill you, your reinforcements well kill his army and even if he's on 3 bases you should win no problem as you will be in a very very good position.
If he's on 2 bases well you know you won there's no way he's coming back after losing his 2 base deathball.
And yes there will be replays of me doing this to toss players so don't worry about that ^_^.
Dealing with 4 gate
+ Show Spoiler +
Now with this build dealing with 4 gate isn't that hard as long as you do it correctly. If you know he's going 4 gate or your pretty sure he is, 2 spine crawlers + roaches will hold it. you will get roaches in time for his attack and as long as you don't supply block yourself, engage stupidly you should hold fine. Try to engage his army when you have our spine crawler support.
The only time you should go out and kill it is if your army is stronger and you have no doubts your army will kill it. your speedling upgrade shouldn't be done when he attacks but it will during it and that is fine, roaches work amazing trust me as long as you don't throw them away or anything. There will be couple replays of this in action as well.
The only time you should go out and kill it is if your army is stronger and you have no doubts your army will kill it. your speedling upgrade shouldn't be done when he attacks but it will during it and that is fine, roaches work amazing trust me as long as you don't throw them away or anything. There will be couple replays of this in action as well.
Dealing with Cannon rushes
+ Show Spoiler +
Ah the joys of getting your hatch down and what does he do? cannon rush! Yes you can hold off a cannon rush if you do it correctly. For starters don't let him block your ramp with pylons.
You have to pull drones to deal with it until your spawning pool finishes. Once that finishes and you get lings out the game is yours if he is doing an all in cannon rush.
Not much else to say I will have replays to showcase this.
You have to pull drones to deal with it until your spawning pool finishes. Once that finishes and you get lings out the game is yours if he is doing an all in cannon rush.
Not much else to say I will have replays to showcase this.
Going Roach/Infestor
+ Show Spoiler +
All right. Going roach/infestor is something people have been wanting me to do and lately been doing it a bit more efficiently then I was before and have a solid build I like when doing this build.
So my overall build is the same as 15 hatch or 15 pool it doesn't matter. but this is what I do.
Get my gas after pool finishes, get ling speed, take 2 guys off of gas and am purely drone pumping. If you think he is doing a 4 gate, keep your guys on gas and make roach/ling to hold off his attack. If he hasn't taken an expansion by 5:30-6:15 I would anticipate an all in so don't over drone and put guys back on gas.
So this is going to be if he does a Forge FE or 3 gate FE. So you put your guys back on gas at about 7:30-8 minutes your preference and get the other 2 gases while you are doing that. You get +1 carapace then go lair. You should place a spore crawler blindly at each base if he forge FE's, if he 3 gate fe's and you see a lot of sentries then no need for spores, if you see very few I would blindly put spores.
After the energy upgrade finishes get Neural parasite (this is good to mind control mass immortals/colossi).
You should be getting +1 melee/carapace upgrades because at the late game broodlords the upgrades help, and an ultra transition with broodlords is super powerful as well if you can't kill him with the first broodlord attack.
You should always be getting those upgrades, and should be mass expanding as you should be very mineral heavy, gas starved. If you see the protoss go for a fast third on a map like taldarim/shakuras, maps with hard to attack thirds due to protoss Force field and what not go lair at about 13-14 minutes and go faster broodlords.
You get tunneling claws and burrow when you feel you can spare the gas/minerals to do so. I am not a fan of it but I know some players are and that is up to you guys.
Don't forget to make 2 spines/1 spore at each base the later the game goes so dt's don't screw you up later ^_^.
So my overall build is the same as 15 hatch or 15 pool it doesn't matter. but this is what I do.
Get my gas after pool finishes, get ling speed, take 2 guys off of gas and am purely drone pumping. If you think he is doing a 4 gate, keep your guys on gas and make roach/ling to hold off his attack. If he hasn't taken an expansion by 5:30-6:15 I would anticipate an all in so don't over drone and put guys back on gas.
So this is going to be if he does a Forge FE or 3 gate FE. So you put your guys back on gas at about 7:30-8 minutes your preference and get the other 2 gases while you are doing that. You get +1 carapace then go lair. You should place a spore crawler blindly at each base if he forge FE's, if he 3 gate fe's and you see a lot of sentries then no need for spores, if you see very few I would blindly put spores.
After the energy upgrade finishes get Neural parasite (this is good to mind control mass immortals/colossi).
You should be getting +1 melee/carapace upgrades because at the late game broodlords the upgrades help, and an ultra transition with broodlords is super powerful as well if you can't kill him with the first broodlord attack.
You should always be getting those upgrades, and should be mass expanding as you should be very mineral heavy, gas starved. If you see the protoss go for a fast third on a map like taldarim/shakuras, maps with hard to attack thirds due to protoss Force field and what not go lair at about 13-14 minutes and go faster broodlords.
You get tunneling claws and burrow when you feel you can spare the gas/minerals to do so. I am not a fan of it but I know some players are and that is up to you guys.
Don't forget to make 2 spines/1 spore at each base the later the game goes so dt's don't screw you up later ^_^.
Now thats all I can think of right now for hatch first. The 15 pool I will showcase is pretty much the same as hatch first in facing the deathball and all that. The beginnings just a little different so I will really only be showcasing the build.
15 pool
9 - overlord
13 - Drone scout (personal preference again like to see if they forge first or not)
15 - spawning pool
16-17- hatch if possible
17- overlord
17- gas
queen as soon as spawning pool finishes with 4 lings.
make 2nd queen out of main hatchery right before 1st queen spawns.
22-24- overlord
24-27 (your preference)- Roach warren.
This 15 pool you still do the same things to fight deathball/standard protoss armies so not really much to add
![](/mirror/smilies/smile.gif)
Now for the replays its a whole pack and I named them with 4gate/cannon rush/etc.
Thanks and enjoy, if I get requests I'll try to add more replays as time goes on ^_^.
and again any clarifications, questions, comments, concerns I will answer! I try to answer every question.
Replays:
http://www.mediafire.com/?smuu5h8a1euexpp
http://www.mediafire.com/?n65dc6592y0sh02 (this is zealot/cannon rush!)
http://www.mediafire.com/?2xrbsqvn2hdfrss (roach/infestor)