[G]Zerg vs Protoss delayed Lair - Page 3

On August 30 2011 23:27 VanillaSky wrote:
First of all thanks for making the guide, I've been struggling with my zvp in masters league in the last couple of days.
I'd like to ask few question.
1) I'm confused on when to get what upgrade. In the guide you specify to get carapace which makes sense since all protoss go for first +1. However, I'm not sure what upgrade to get next. Do I want to get the +2 carapace upgrade as precaution of +2? or maybe I want to upgrade my zerglings, maybe the roachs?

2) How well does roach hydra infestor fare with colossus vr deathballs from your experience?

3) If protoss goes for air, when is queens+spore enough and when do I need hydras?

4) If I go hydras vs air how I counter the inevitable colossus switch?

5) What is your endgame ideal army? Protoss can tech switch really easily when it comes to 4+ bases so its hard to respond to their army.

Thank you very much.

On August 31 2011 00:08 Beyond Magic wrote:
heya, really helpful guide.

im still kinda skeptic about 15 hatch against forge fastexpand, i watched the replay and you lost a lot of drones and coul've lost even more with cannon micro =(.

well, im only diamond player so i wouldn't know that well.

you did great job in blocking the spot between the pylons to stop that cannon from being started.

from my experience toss kinda successfully manage to cover 2 cannon with pylons which is enough for your expansion to get kinda fucked =(.

On August 31 2011 00:20 Sleight wrote:
One thing to consider with cannon rushes is how much they have to spend and delay their tech. I'd say if you lose only 1/2 to 3/4ths their mineral value investment, I think you are still comfortable. I 14 pool 16 hatch because I don't have someone good to cannon rush me again and again, so i like to avoid the issue, but that's also because the probe always seems to get to me by 15 anyways.

On August 31 2011 00:21 ExquisiteRed wrote:
Hey Blade great guide as usual. I have a question thats unrelated to the build (which I've been using for a while since I watch your stream), since we hotkey hatcheries the same way I was wondering if you rebind the 8,9,0 keys to something else or if you just reach your fingers over/shift your hand closer to hit them. Because they're so far away I've been having problems accurately hitting those those keys and was just curious what you do. Also, unrelated do you keep the base of your left hand static on the table or should you let it move around a bit? Love the stream, keep up the good work .

On August 31 2011 04:34 nehcnhoj wrote:
Wonderful build, I've been doing a slightly varied version myself ZvP.

Just a few clarifications, I understand +1 Cara is simply a preference for you, though is there any reason behind it besides some Ps getting quick +1s? I've never tried cara, always gotten +1 melee.

I actually get really greedy, if I have solid scouting in his base at the start and at his natural I'll actually put down my third before ling speed (differs map to map of course). I get gas roughly the same time you do, but put 2 drones in it and get speed when gas hits 100. I similarly don't believe investing 100/100 in ling speed too early is good. My slightly later ling speed gives me slightly more minerals really early, but I get lair and +1 attack a little faster than in your build (also depends on when I put a 3rd drone back in and when I get my 2nd gas and so forth).

Transitions wise, I always make a mad dash to hive tech, I will get at most 4 infestors to stall and get a 4th base while trading with massive amounts of upgraded 2melee/2 ling roach. Infestors, I feel, are amazing defensive, but tend to be less effective and micro'd very sloppily when on the offensive. If the toss doesn't do 2 base 6-8gate heavy pressure or makes the mistake of being too passive because he's rushing up and turtling to a deathball I will throw down a bane nest and do bane drops, while rushing to hive tech and taking my 4th and 5th myself.

My Ideal endgame depending on how the mid-game plays out is either where I'm ahead significantly in bases where the Toss feels he has to make 1 deathball push against me and I have broodlords roach ling infestor ready for an army trade where i transition into roach ling ultra for the kill, or I have broodlords ready to deny his 4th/5th or any base that will let him feel that he is on even econ with me, which forces him into the 1st scenario.

I guess I'm focusing more on transition here, but then again, the ability to have this clear direction for mid-endgame all stems from the heavy mineral advantage from this awesome build though.

Nice work.

On September 04 2011 13:02 TolEranceNA wrote:
Blade, i hate to annoy you with so many questions, but, how would you react to alot of warp prism harasses play? Do you leave some army at base to deal with them?

On September 23 2011 18:06 firehand101 wrote:
Hey u dont have to bump this i read all of your posts!
Do you think you can spend the first 100 gas on lair instead of speed, and defend with slow lings and spines, and then detection via overseer is only 50 gas?

i think this is what zergs in the GSL are now doing

On September 23 2011 22:37 Brainiak wrote:
Just one question:
When i see a fast third, i go double stargate after ffe. That is usually an auto win for me, unless i really mess up. How can you stop a double stargate with 4 voids + rallied phoenixes? I asked a friend of mine, a high level zerg and he said he stopped doing a super fast third because of double stargate.
FYI: hydras arent really the solution, because the 6-8 phoenixes make short work of the lonely hydralisks

On September 27 2011 00:18 alphaQ wrote:
What are your thoughts on building drops into this build? I feel like especially vs FFE builds Zerg get to near full supply really fast, but are unable to put any kind of pressure because of how effective robo+ sentry turtle can be against roach ling. While you could just sit back and go straight to hive at this point, I feel it could be equally effective to just throw your cheap tier 1 roach ling armies at them with drops, to delay their expansions, while focusing on getting a stronger economy but delayed hive.