EPTLately i have been thinking of Nydus worms and how too use them more effectively. Well on bigger maps (zvt for now only) i have been using nydus worms defensively. I only uploaded 1 replay (and a section to the guide!) I plan on adding more and the replay does showcase the use of it defensively! I would recommend it for zerg players wanting too incorporate nydus's into their game plan as I feel this is going to be a better way for zerg players to save expansions as the bigger maps get used more and more!
[G] Zerg vs Terran Guide - Page 2
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
Lately i have been thinking of Nydus worms and how too use them more effectively. Well on bigger maps (zvt for now only) i have been using nydus worms defensively. I only uploaded 1 replay (and a section to the guide!) I plan on adding more and the replay does showcase the use of it defensively! I would recommend it for zerg players wanting too incorporate nydus's into their game plan as I feel this is going to be a better way for zerg players to save expansions as the bigger maps get used more and more! | ||
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DImported
Australia149 Posts
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decaf
Austria1797 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 21 2011 18:35 decaf wrote: I think this lacks some more information about dealing with hellions. They are so popular right now, noone 2raxes anymore. It's real hard to tell what kind of hellion pressure he's going for, red/blue flames? Or one of those silly hellion harassments with one billion hellions? Yeah I'll add a portion on that. Everyone's back to hellions again Don't know why I didn't write it in the first place xD. I'll write a part on that ^_^ ok done! Added it in! | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
I know I got some complaints and I didn't ignore them! So should be easier too read and thanks again True ♥. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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Synk
United States297 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 22 2011 06:17 Synk wrote: You seem to be relying on scouting banshee builds, how is that possible? Saccing overlords is a gamble at best and most masters + terrans know to not build anything in sight range of the top of their ramp. What happens when you get caught with 2 cloaked banshees with no spore crawlers down? I find I have to blind build 4x spores or have a 7 minute lair against any terran who doesn't FE simply because theres no way to reliably scout banshee builds. Is there someway to avoid investing so much in banshee defense? Or are you really able to definitively scout for it every game? Most T I play don't rally units to their wall off so all I can see there is 2 marines, and any OL angles are usually covered by another pair of patrolling marines. Granted like 1 in 5 games the T players fuck it up and forget to patrol marines or build something too close to the ramp. saccing an overlord gives you more information then you think at times. If you don't see any tech (factory/starport) you can normally at least see his marine count. I mean if you don't see anything and lose the overlord and you don't see an expansion or anything there are 2 things the terran can be doing. Blue flamed hellions and as you said banshee/cloaked banshee. A huge giveaway is bunker at the top ramp. I mean in reality you don't ever need to make 4 spore crawlers at each base as you should be fine with 1 spine at each base + queens. I rarely lose to banshee builds as I seem to know when their going it either with overlord scout, or just bunker at ramp. If you see the top of his ramp, see no bunker, no expansion and your sac overlord saw nothing I would grab roaches and push the front. doing this will also force him to either show his tech (if you see hellions come out of nowhere you can assume blue flame coming up). You'll force something that well reveal it. I mean just always make a third queen, make a spore crawler at each base just encase if you can't tell if blue flamed or cloaked banshee. This is just something that is annoying in zvt is not knowing sometimes and have to make a correct guess there's no 100% method just ways to make it easier. | ||
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Synk
United States297 Posts
I mean in reality you don't ever need to make 4 spore crawlers at each base as you should be fine with 1 spine at each base + queens. I rarely lose to banshee builds as I seem to know when their going it either with overlord scout, or just bunker at ramp. If you see the top of his ramp, see no bunker, no expansion and your sac overlord saw nothing I would grab roaches and push the front. I've actually lost a few games recently because I thought 1 spore was fine, as it turns out he can shoot your hatch outside of the spores detection range if he goes to the opposite side of the hatch from where the spore is at. I have no problem stopping banshees as long as I can detect them ( 4 queens do very well, usually I can have 2 or even 3 transfuses ready as well ). But once he gets in that sweet spot and starts killing my hatch if I don't have lair tech nearly done I'm dead because trying to build crawlers wont work, and trying to move and re-burrow one is also hopeless since 2 banshees can kill it before it burrows. As far as the OL scout, 2 marines can kill it before it sees anything on most maps. I'm not really trying to be pessimistic here I've just tried it a lot ( basically every game ) and it has to be like a 70% chance that I see nothing but 2 or 3 marines which doesn't tell me much at all ( 1 rax can build 5 marines by the 5 minute mark, which doesn't alter any 1 base build at all really ). Your approach of just pushing with roaches is something I have started doing lately because it does force him to commit with whatever he has, thus I can figure out his build. But like having to practically all in a Terran just so I can scout him seems really really ... silly I guess. Thanks for the feedback though, I guess your saying most of your games you can spot his build from the ramp or with a sac OL. The few games you can't scout you just do a early roach attack in order to force a response so you can scout. Honestly my scouting success rate has to be like 10%, I don't know what I'm doing differently. Sometimes I even send 2 OL's into the main at once from opposite sides and don't see me more than 5 marines( the T had 2 patrolling on both sides of his base ). | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
Do note your roach attack doesn't have too be all in or anything. Just send like 5-6 roaches to attack and be annoying while still droning up afterwards. It works great not all in, forces him (well most of the time) to react in a certain way by either revealing his hidden hellions, banshee (if its popped out). I mean if you don't see another CC, and few marines are defending and no hellions are helping I would assume banshee and make 2 spores at each base just too be safe. The reason I said 1 spore crawler before is 1 spore is normally pretty good for detection if he goes 1 port cloaked banshee and thats normally not the biggest of deals (your lair shouldn't be too far away from finishing either I believe). vs 2 port banshee which you can normally scout with your overlord due to how much resources that takes he wont' have that many marines, you make about 4 spores at each base (or thats what I do LOL) with queens and then wait till muta's. Its alot of investment but 2 port banshee is so all in its hilarious ^_^. | ||
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Trakky
95 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On May 22 2011 15:19 Trakky wrote: I want to incorporate burrow for my banelings before the 2rax -> transition into marine tank with stim timing atk that is really popular. Will this work? Like mid game? I imagine it will, honestly like alot of other top zergs have said, burrowed banelings are the future for zvt on bigger maps. Reason being is because they can't scan all the way across and alot of terrans don't scan right now because nobody does burrowed banelings. I think its a fine idea, and something I am going to be messing around with. I do plan on adding it to the OP on using burrowed banelings but haven't been able to do it yet but will be doing it soon  . | ||
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Trakky
95 Posts
"25 - gas (yes I delay gas a bit). as soon as spawning pool finishes make 2 queens. I add a spine crawler in case they go fast hellions, but it also helps defend quite a few different types of pressure. You can delay the spine crawler a little bit if you know are familiar with the hellion timing. 22-24- overlord (your preference) 24-27 (your preference)- Roach warren." | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On May 23 2011 14:28 Trakky wrote: Are you sure it's 25 -gas? because how come it goes backward? "25 - gas (yes I delay gas a bit). as soon as spawning pool finishes make 2 queens. I add a spine crawler in case they go fast hellions, but it also helps defend quite a few different types of pressure. You can delay the spine crawler a little bit if you know are familiar with the hellion timing. 22-24- overlord (your preference) 24-27 (your preference)- Roach warren." I'm not sure why I have the overlord after just a mistake I just now found thanks to you, as for the roach warren I think its fine where it is I think  . | ||
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Trakky
95 Posts
When I read this guide, it immediately reminds me what Nestea said about going sling/bling/roach. He says to get a super fast 3rd because if T doesn't rush to attack you, then you'll be way ahead in econ, and if he decides to attack, then you have roaches to fight head on (unlike mutas that cannot fight cost-effectively) and you'll have burrowed banelings which has the potential of ending the game. T will need to save up his scans because he cannot risk walking across the map blindly, and if he spot on with managing his energy, then the long wait will be heavily beneficial to the zerg. Once my 3rd base kicks in, I'll then get infestor and spire and get about ~10 mutas to deal with drops. I'll then decide later if I'll go BLs or ultras depending on his tank count. I still do not know when to get upgrades and what upgrades to get and if I should go double evo. Because we're using roaches as a core unit, I still don't know if I should get range upgrade at all, or just focus on +1 melee and +1 armor. Thanks for the guide! | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On May 23 2011 15:01 Trakky wrote: So what's your first gas timing then? I find that going 4gas will cause me to have too much gas and I won't be able to manage my resources well because by making any lings/blings, I'm not depleting my gas at all. So basically, I find that if I am only on 2 bases getting only sling/bling/roaches, I only need 3 gases. When I read this guide, it immediately reminds me what Nestea said about going sling/bling/roach. He says to get a super fast 3rd because if T doesn't rush to attack you, then you'll be way ahead in econ, and if he decides to attack, then you have roaches to fight head on (unlike mutas that cannot fight cost-effectively) and you'll have burrowed banelings which has the potential of ending the game. T will need to save up his scans because he cannot risk walking across the map blindly, and if he spot on with managing his energy, then the long wait will be heavily beneficial to the zerg. Once my 3rd base kicks in, I'll then get infestor and spire and get about ~10 mutas to deal with drops. I'll then decide later if I'll go BLs or ultras depending on his tank count. I still do not know when to get upgrades and what upgrades to get and if I should go double evo. Because we're using roaches as a core unit, I still don't know if I should get range upgrade at all, or just focus on +1 melee and +1 armor. Thanks for the guide! I can answer some of the questions you asked. While I like to go fast'ish muta's so i get my 4 gases pretty fast. As for what nestea said about getting a fast third, I don't have the burrowed banelings and what not down yet and haven't been using it quiet yet (I keep forgetting and not playing enough good terrans that don't' all in xD). I imagine burrowed banelings allows you to get a faster third, its definitely something I'm going to be trying anyway against terrans that don't' all in ^^. for upgrades, I recommend as soon as you get 3 base and gas going on that third base to have 2 evo's done and start getting carapace and melee. Reasons being as carapace/melee are better in every way due to the fact that you still have zerglings and banelings, late game broodlord/ultra's both get a bonus for the +1 melee (broodlings from broodlords get it), where ranged only roaches do. And glad you liked the guide :D | ||
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Trakky
95 Posts
I'm only in masters so take this with a grain of salt. The usual 2 base marine tank with stim comes at around 9-10 mins, which is when in your opening you'll get mutas. Obviously mutas can't fight in a battle head on and you'll have quite a difficult time securing your 3rd. However by delaying mutas until 3rd base is finished, I only need 3 gases and can pump out a lot of sling/bling/roaches to defend against anything (because I don't need that much gas and just get all the minerals). By getting fast mutas, you'll be delaying your 3rd, and also putting yourself vulnerable for the T's timing attack, and I just feel like since you already open roach warren, managing an army for sling/bling/roaches/mutas is just too much for 2 bases. Also, I don't know why, but it seems like I can always get lair now before speed (my first gas is right when I start my 2 queens). | ||
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Encrypto
United States442 Posts
On April 13 2011 09:58 Dante.Lass wrote: Nice, quite a lot of grammar mistakes tough! LOL fail | ||
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NoctisLucisCaelum
United States26 Posts
Also should the composition of the flanking army be in different ratios as well? I.E. Frontal Army 1/3 Lings 1/3 Roaches 1/3 Banes vs. Flanking army 1/2Lings 1/4 Roaches 1/4 Banes. etc. I feel like it would make a difference, but who knows, I'm just a little diamond zergy. Another question would be timing. Do I attack at the same time? If this is not the case and I attack with the frontal army a second earlier, I feel as if the flanking army should have a little more lings and banelings than roaches, then the tanks would be demolished. Please let me know the answers to my questions and if any of my assumptions were clearly wrong, | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On May 24 2011 01:23 NoctisLucisCaelum wrote: Wow. Great guide, I always wondered what set me apart from the other Pros, and this is definitely one (Of many) things that I have overlooked, especially ascertaining to Flanking. I had a follow up question: What should be my ratio of flanking vs frontal army (out of the total army)? Should it be straight 1/2 front and 1/2 flanking? Or a different ratio ? Also should the composition of the flanking army be in different ratios as well? I.E. Frontal Army 1/3 Lings 1/3 Roaches 1/3 Banes vs. Flanking army 1/2Lings 1/4 Roaches 1/4 Banes. etc. I feel like it would make a difference, but who knows, I'm just a little diamond zergy. Another question would be timing. Do I attack at the same time? If this is not the case and I attack with the frontal army a second earlier, I feel as if the flanking army should have a little more lings and banelings than roaches, then the tanks would be demolished. Please let me know the answers to my questions and if any of my assumptions were clearly wrong, glad you like it ^^. As for the flanking, I personally do 2 control groups of half army (or try to get half on each) with ling/roach/bane. You want to attack at the same time from like the front/back if you can. As your attacking make sure to select your banelings (or you can put them in a different control group your choice) and make sure they go for the marines on both sides while your roaches deal with tanks and muta's deal with tanks (muta's are not to be used for flanks they should be on a completely different hotkey all together!). Doing this you still want to try to attack when his tanks are unseiged unless you just have a way superior force. Hope this clarifies :D | ||
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