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[G] Speedray PvZ

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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iamke55
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
United States2806 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-01 08:00:01
December 07 2010 06:52 GMT
#1
[image loading]
What do you mean you’re taking away my flux vanes?

Disclaimer: It works against 2.6k diamond at least, probably much higher if they try an all in bust. I make no claim that this will beat a 3k diamond player, though I've seen others do it. And yes, you might look like a 3v3 BGH nr20 noob if you use this strategy.

Introduction
Ever seen mass speedrays dominate some silver league team game? It’s one of the least skilled looking things you’ll ever see, but there are a few reasons why it’s so effective. First let’s look at the properties of a void ray…
-Very expensive
-Not too much health
-Not too much damage either

Doesn’t look like such a good deal, does it? Instead looking at one void ray, let’s look at the properties of mass void rays
-Ridiculously expensive
-Incredibly supply-efficient
-Attack mechanic avoids overkill, giving it much more DPS than its stats suggest
-Scale very well with upgrades
-Stack on top of each other, thus never lose DPS from blocking each other
-Has no counters that don’t melt to colossus

What all of these things mean is that while void rays are merely a form of harassment in the early- and mid-game, once you get closer to 200 supply they also become incredibly powerful main army units! I’m writing this guide to show you guys how to create the void ray/colossus “death ball” in a PvZ. It started off as a joke build, when I was trying to break a spine crawler contain that my practice partner did to me. I quickly noticed that if I executed well and my opponents didn’t play perfect ZvP, I would slowly build up the 200/200 fleet and barely lose any units while wiping the Zerg off the map. After a few weeks, GuineaPig used a similar build to defeat Junwi in the GSL, confirming that Stargates are viable at the highest level of play. I continued to work on my build to adapt to what Zerg players were throwing at me. Now that Blizzard is planning to remove speedrays from the game, there’s no point in me hiding my strategy so I might as well let you guys abuse it while it still exists!

To demonstrate how cost effective the army composition is, I’ll just show you a screenshot:
[image loading]
Day[9] warned that this Zerg had a 300 food army. It didn't intimidate us any more than a 200 food army, really.

What maps should you use this build on?
My general rule is that if the map is good for fast expanding, then this build works on it. Lost Temple, Shakuras Plateau, and Jungle Basin are the best maps for it because those maps are the best ones for going nexus before gateway.

Early game
9 pylon in a suitable spot for walling, then go scout with that probe

Your goal in the early game is to get a very quick nexus, with cannons finishing in time to deny the earliest zergling rush your opponent’s build can throw at you. If your probe doesn’t find the Zerg at the first base it checks, try to guess where he started by noting the timing of his scouting overlord. Here are some guidelines on how you can respond to what your probe finds.

14 hatch or 15 hatch – this opening has a really late spawning pool, so you can afford to be extra greedy with probes. Make a second pylon while chrono boosting out constant probes, then get a nexus on 18 or 19 supply, then get a forge right after.

14 extractor 14 pool or 14 pool 16 hatch – cut probes at 15, then go 15 nexus 15 forge 16 pylon. The second pylon should go below your ramp so that you can place cannons and gateways.

Pool earlier than 14 – Get a forge asap, cutting probes if you don’t have 150 minerals the instant you see their pool.

Follow up with a gateway and a core in “sim city” positions to protect your cannons. Two assimilators should be built somewhere around 24 supply. Meanwhile, your scouting probe should check for a fast third base to determine whether you need to get multiple cannons to defend against a possible all-in bust with roaches or banelings. If they manage to kill your probe or you feel unsafe for any other reason, just spam cannons. The best maps for this build allow for high ground cannons, which should definitely shut down any rush. Don’t forget about Nydus worms! Uncover the dark spots in your main with a combination of pylons and a patrolling probe (hotkey all of your main probes to something so you can respond instantly). Once you have the resources, make two Stargates and take both assimilators in your expansion.

[image loading]
Baneling bust this!

Why is this opening so safe? I’ll make my point by comparing it to a more standard 15 nexus opening. That build needs cannons to hold off early rushes, but wants to make as few cannons as possible against anything else. Every cannon delays the warpgates you need against a greedy Zerg. With my Stargate-centered play, the unit composition you want is extremely gas-heavy! You will not be making zealots, stalkers, or even gateways so making excess cannons to be safe will have practically no impact on your later army. They will also help to hold off any hydra busts that can arrive before you can make a Colossus. It’s not uncommon for me to put 5 cannons at my front and 2 in my main (in case I run into the fastest muta rush ever).

Mid game
Once your two Stargates are done, your immediate goal will be to harass and scout. Start chronoing out void rays and phoenixes. Also begin +1 air weapons. Your first void ray should start clearing out overlords near your base and looking for expansions, while your first phoenix needs to fly over to the Zerg’s main base as soon as possible to see how they respond to your Stargate tech. Here are some common things you might find:

Fast third base – try to go kill it with void rays and phoenixes. The worst case scenario is that you force spores and extra queens at every base, best case scenario is you kill a hatchery. Their lair tech is too delayed to respond with anything other than queens and spores. It should be easy to get a third base as they have no mobile anti-air yet.

Spire or mutas – if you didn’t already make two cannons in your main, do so now. Cancel any void rays in production and start pumping out phoenixes! Once mutas are out, add a third stargate and fleet beacon. The Zerg will try to challenge you for air dominance using corruptors, and you will need the third stargate to keep up with his production. This can be hard to deal with because you won’t be able to take a third base until you have map control from air units.

[image loading]
BGH noob confirmed

Hydra den – if you see any sign that hydras are coming, make a robo and start teching towards colossus. Also get a fleet beacon anyways since you’ll want flux vanes to abuse hydras’ lack of mobility. Harass as much as you can and get ready to take a third base.

Production-wise, you’ll want to be on either 3 stargates or 2 stargates and a robo depending on what you scout. During the mid-game, your main goal should be to secure a third base. Secondary objectives include harassment, map control by killing speedlings/overlords, and +2 air weapons. Expanding is done by the following steps, not all of which may be necessary:
1. Clear out any lings near the expo.
2. Distract the Zerg by harassing with a few air units.
3. Make pylons, a nexus, and start spamming cannons!

Every time you expand, there is a short vulnerable period between the time you start a pylon and the time your mass cannons finish. Thanks to the gas-heaviness of your army, you will have a ton of excess minerals to spam cannons with. Once you have the third base running with assimilators, you should have 3 stargates and 2 robos. The most difficult thing to deal with when expanding is probably someone persistent with speedling harass. To get a third base up, here are some tricks you can use:
-Harassing with air units to tax their multitask, while building pylons and cannons
-Building pylons and cannons at multiple spots at once, since you have so many excess minerals anyways. Then you make a nexus at whichever place gets cannons up successfully
-Using a warp prism to build cannons before the pylon is done warping in, to decrease the expansion’s vulnerable timing window
-Any combination of the above should basically guarantee your expansion goes up against players with less than 300 apm

Here’s what a safe expansion looks like
[image loading]
Who do you think you are? Nal_rA?

Aside from the scouting you got from your first phoenix, there are a few dangerous things to watch out for in the mid-game:

Hydra drops – if you see any sign that the other guy researched overlord drops, you should spend some of your minerals on main base cannons, get colossi with range even faster than you would normally, and be ready to shoot down overlords with void rays.
Infestors – this is why you can’t be greedy when harassing. The instant you see one appear, you need to right click far away from whatever base you’re harassing. Preferably over a cliff.

Once you have the third base up and running, as well as 3 stargates and 2 robos (or 4 stargates and 1 robo if that guy is still trying to win the air battle!), you’re entering the late-game.

Scouting: your first phoenix(es) need to stay alive and fly around constantly to scout where the Zerg is. Overlords need to be hunted to make it easier to expand.

Optional: when you have more than 6 void rays and the speed upgrade is done, you can try to snipe their hydra den or hive. In such numbers, speedrays are incredibly potent harassment. I wouldn’t try sniping the hive with less than 12 void rays though.

[image loading]
Watching your minimap isn't enough, bro. You're gonna need map hack to prevent this.

Late game
You put your third base in a smart spot, right? If so, the cannons there should be able to defend a fourth base as well so build that when you have the resources. This section of the guide might not even be necessary since if you made it this far, there’s not much Zerg can do to stop you. 4 bases is around the stage of the game where you will max out with anywhere from 25-30 void rays supported by 6 colossi. +3 air weapons should be done by now, and you should have started air armor. Push out with all of your units and watch everything melt to your lasers! At 200/200, your army is so ridiculously powerful that you are unlikely to drop below 170 supply against any army. Expand and spam cannons as usual behind your push just in case it fails, but I have never seen it fail yet. Still, Day[9] wouldn’t be pleased to see you launch an attack and not expand with 3k minerals in the bank!

Update 1/1/11: some high level European zergs pointed out that fully upgraded corruptors are good vs void rays. So if your opponent knows about this, it is absolutely crucial to get a mothership and then snipe his spire(s), possibly multiple times, before his 3-3 air upgrades are done. You may even send a few void rays to the other side of the map as a diversion while your main fleet flies into their main base to kill the spire. A good zerg will almost certainly fungal growth you, so recall out, preferably to a spot with cannons.

[image loading]
Before
[image loading]
[image loading]
After

If for some inexplicable reason your Zerg opponent has an army that you can’t attack move to death (I’ve never encountered this but it might exist!), then you can always turtle behind cannons and get a mothership. Mass recall guarantees that your void rays can harass with impunity, regardless of infestors, the threat of a counterattack, hydras showing up out of nowhere, etc. On 5-6 bases, you might as well spam tech buildings and gates just in case you vortex a huge army and want to archon toilet it.

Threats
This section is for opponents’ strategies that can be difficult to deal with, or things you might lose to when still learning the build.

6 pool, 10 pool, etc – you built your pylon in the wrong spot, or scouted your opponent last. Building your first pylon below the ramp is risky, and not necessary for a sim city, so don’t do it! You should get used to overlord timings so that you don’t scout their base last.

Roach or baneling bust – either you don’t have enough cannons (remember these are practically free since your units are so gas-heavy) or you picked the wrong map for this build.

Backdoor bust – not playing safe enough. Remember that you can afford to spam cannons if you see no third base.

Fast nydus – you forgot to patrol a probe, or you underestimated how many probes you need to kill it before it finishes building.

Surprise tech switch – don’t commit to colossi until you actually see a hydralisk! If you see a hydra den and they actually went muta/corruptor, you can easily get overpowered in the air without a third stargate.

Drops – see midgame

Extremely fast hydras – you need to see this coming and get enough cannons to hold it off, while getting a robo.

Constant speedling harass to deny your third – this is probably the hardest thing to deal with. See midgame for tips on getting your third base up.

Fungal growth – outrange it with extended thermal lances.

Losing a lot of void rays in general – if this happens, you are probably overrating the value of harass. Remember that the ultimate goal of this build is not to harass the guy to death but to make the 200/200 death ball! Harassment is great if you have the apm to do it constantly, but its main purpose is really to gain map control and distract the guy while you set up another expo.

Hydras with meatshields - believe it or not, this is the strongest mid-game bust you can go up against, and significantly deadlier than pure hydras. Colossi Without +2 weapons take forever to burn through speedlings, and even longer to kill roaches. Fortunately, most players who do this tend to suicide into your cannons, and you can punish low hydra counts by simply not making colossi. You will probably have to use a few of the tricks I mentioned for getting a third base.

Mass corruptor/muta/infestor with 3/3 air upgrades: believe it or not, this can defeat your fleet! Now that I know about this threat, sniping spires is more important than sniping hives/lairs.

Replays

Fungal growth and 7 bases? No problem.
[image loading]

Mass hydras
[image loading]

Early roach pressure
[image loading]

This isn't the map you want to do this build on. Nevertheless, this game had a little bit of everything, considering the guy got 6 bases. You get to see how I deal with mass air, mass ground, speedling harass, nydus, fungal growth. Notice the time stamp showing that I was using this build before GuineaPig's games.
[image loading]

attempted roach bust followed by baneling bust
http://www.cstarleague.com/league/matches/957/replays
(It's set 5)

Kiwikaki vs Machine, different opening build but similar concept
http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/download?id=3461

Update 1/1/11: you can transition to this from a standard 3 gate build. I knew this when I wrote the guide, but I didn't have time to test out how to do it yet. Here are two replays that demonstrate how it can be done.
I start with phoenix harass to gain map control and set up my third, then start adding void rays and colossi to the stalker/sentry backbone of Protoss armies. 2.9k zerg
[image loading]

NvMacSed vs Seekers (MacSed practices with Huk so he must be really good)
http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/download?id=3987

Will it still work in the next patch?
The loss of flux vanes hurts, but I'm not really sure if that kills this strategy completely. The only thing certain is that I'll have to rename it to something other than "Speedray PvZ"! I played one game with it on the test server yesterday (if any of you were spectating, I was using the name NeXWarped) and I won, but that doesn't say too much. Does the new fungal growth make up for the loss of flux vanes? Maybe, maybe not. I'll definitely be testing it on the PTR though!

Enjoy it while it lasts! David Kim if you happen to ever read this, please don't remove flux vanes!
During practice session, I discovered very good build against zerg. -Bisu[Shield]
Prophecy3
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada223 Posts
December 07 2010 07:03 GMT
#2
Too bad we don't see more Skytoss and air supremacy games, hilarious to watch and it forces zerg into an unusual position since zerg loses many map controls ;o/


Watching zerg armies erased by collossus and voids must feel like watching zerg armies erased by siege tank lines... Nothing so beautiful lol.
Ignorance is Bliss? Indifferance is Atrocity.
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
December 07 2010 07:20 GMT
#3
Great guide, nice pics lol. I've been doing something similar, and I can confirm that the general concept (massing to 200/200 colossi void ray death ball and mass cannon/expo) works even at the 3k diamond level.

The biggest threat is a weak mid-game, when you're trying to secure your 3rd. Pure hydras can be stopped, but a roach/hydra mix can be deadly when you don't have the critical mass of voids or collossi.

What I end up doing is to start with void rays to help defend against roaches, and to harass a bit. Then I'll go the normal stalker/colossi route for mid-game to try to secure my 3rd. Heading towards late game though, I do add additional stargates and try to get that 200/200 colossi/void ball.
iamke55
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
United States2806 Posts
December 07 2010 07:25 GMT
#4
Yeah I think I'm gonna edit that in. As counter-intuitive as it sounds, hydra/roach or hydra/ling/bling does way better than pure hydra because colossi take forever to kill all the meatshields. I'll add a section for gateway units when I have more experience with the transition, in case someone's speedling harass is actually good enough to get past all the "tricks" I use to get my third base up.
During practice session, I discovered very good build against zerg. -Bisu[Shield]
theWalrusSC2
Profile Joined December 2010
United States78 Posts
December 07 2010 07:30 GMT
#5
This was a very thorough writeup- well done iamke55. I was going to post the KiwiKaki vs. Machine game, but then I saw it tagged onto the bottom of your post.

Don't get me wrong, because I love Colossi against hydras, but I rather like the notion KiwiKaki had of using a small gateway force to complement the speed Void Ray fleet. If you're combining Void Rays with Colossi, you have two expensive units that take forever to make. If the Zerg player catches you out of position on creep one time and executes a good flank, that can easily turn out to be a very costly mistake.

The Gateway units can be quickly and cheaply replenished. I know hydras chew through gateway units like buttah, but they can be thought of as meatshields. I've played around with this build a few times and I rather like the Chargelot/Sentry ground army with the speed Void Rays. Rather than damage dealers, the Chargelots go in first to disrupt the concave of the hydras. The Sentries lay down a line of forcefields behind the Chargelots (a la KiwiKaki's play) to further prevent the hydras from getting a concave on your Void Rays in a direct engagement. Only one row of hydras can ever hit the Void Rays with good control, thus minimizing the hydras' silly DPS.

This is, of course, only viable if the Z counters the speed Void Rays with hydras. By no means am I trying to contradict the OP here, rather I'm just putting in my two cents based on what I saw and liked in the KiwiKaki vs. Machine example.
DuSt Gaming http://www.teamdust.net/
5unrise
Profile Joined May 2009
New Zealand646 Posts
December 07 2010 07:35 GMT
#6
I don't know what to say. + Show Spoiler +
fu**ing imba ><
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-07 07:49:24
December 07 2010 07:47 GMT
#7
On December 07 2010 16:25 iamke55 wrote:
Yeah I think I'm gonna edit that in. As counter-intuitive as it sounds, hydra/roach or hydra/ling/bling does way better than pure hydra because colossi take forever to kill all the meatshields. I'll add a section for gateway units when I have more experience with the transition, in case someone's speedling harass is actually good enough to get past all the "tricks" I use to get my third base up.


Hydra/roach also rip through cannons much easier, besides faring better against colossus. And actually if they mix in banelings in mid-game, it's even more scary for your sim city cannons. Fortunately, zergs are currently too stupid to use banelings past early game all-ins. I think I've only seen banelings used on my cannons during mid-late game only once in about 100 games (I think it was ViBE? He ezpzed my cannons with a few banelings then rolled over me).

The third base timing is actually kinda tricky. Just because you get your 3rd base up with 10 cannons doesn't mean it's safe - if you get it up too fast and you don't have any/enough colossus to defend it, it can still get run over pretty easily. If you see that the zerg stays on 2 bases for longer than normal, you don't really want to rush your 3rd. Of course, it also depends on how successful your harass is (if you do a lot of damage early then you can get your 3rd up earlier).

I also want to emphasize the threat of zerg tech switches. If the zerg starts out with spire, you should still tech up to colossus even if you don't get any/many. It doesn't take long for the zerg to plop down a hydra den and macro up 20 hydra, and you don't want to face a mass of hydra without colossus. The reverse is probably even more dangerous, since mutas are also a counter to voids, and if your voids get caught by 15 mutas out of nowhere and you have no phoenix support, you're going to lose most if not all your voids and that's a game-changing loss for you. Note that mutas are still faster than speedrays.
Douillos
Profile Joined May 2010
France3195 Posts
December 07 2010 07:52 GMT
#8
Wow between this and the terran 4OC build, dark dark times for zergs are coming :'(
Look a giraffe! Look a fist!!
eth3n
Profile Joined August 2010
718 Posts
December 07 2010 07:54 GMT
#9
On December 07 2010 16:52 Douillos wrote:
Wow between this and the terran 4OC build, dark dark times for zergs are coming :'(


VR speed is gone
Idra Potter: I don't use avada kedavra because i have self-respect.
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10305 Posts
December 07 2010 07:57 GMT
#10
iamke55 and a few others are the only reason why i don't just think Stragedy section should be removed =) great thread
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
December 07 2010 08:14 GMT
#11
I had someone go 2 stargate Voids vs me on Meta (close position via air) vs my fast expo. I scouted with a scan, held it off with 2 turrets, and upgraded auto-sec. He barely held off my first push towards his late nat, losing at least 3/4 voids in the process. He eventually got flux vanes, and I could NOT STOP HIM OMG. He would fly around with 8 void rays, and just rape everything, despite me having like 4 turrets wtih autosec at each expo. I had 5 rax, 2 reactor starport pumping vikings, but my vikings couldn't catch him. Not being able to kill him, I mass expoed with turrets and PForts, and just denied his expos with drops. I had 5 base fully running saturated with at least 70 harvesters by the time he secured his 3rd (which was gold).

Once he got templar tech as well, I couldn't do shit.

3/3 upgrades on my bio
2/2 on ground and air
21 rax, 11 reactored, 10 tech lab
3 factory, 2 reactored, 1 tech lab to pump blue flame hellions
2 starport reactor viking medivac


could not stop massive camping by

2/0 voids with flux
0/0/0 gateway army
mass chargelot/hightemplar


High templar carpet stormed my bio army, voids incinerated marauders to the point they were useless building, voids could avoid vikings infinitely and when i finally could engage, they got stormed. I couldn't evne use hellions without being stormed.

Even doom dropped his main. No avail.

In retrospect, when I had 5k/5k, should have teched to EMP ghosts. No storms ==> roll him. Was so annoyed that I lost that when I had 5 base vs 3 base. UGHHHH. Just could not stop the mass voids (he had like 12-15 at points)

/rant
Tical3000
Profile Joined June 2010
40 Posts
December 07 2010 08:30 GMT
#12
what if the zerg like refrains from building lings and goes like.. all muta?
BenKen
Profile Joined August 2009
United States860 Posts
December 07 2010 08:46 GMT
#13
Nice writeup, very entertaining. Harass won't be nearly as easy without flux vanes, but the Void/Colossus deathball is still gonna be a deathball. I hadn't thought about going BGH cannon-spam style though, sounds fun.

btw, I think they got fungal growth back.
I deadlift for Aiur
Tossup
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States208 Posts
December 07 2010 08:52 GMT
#14
On December 07 2010 17:46 BenKen wrote:
Nice writeup, very entertaining. Harass won't be nearly as easy without flux vanes, but the Void/Colossus deathball is still gonna be a deathball. I hadn't thought about going BGH cannon-spam style though, sounds fun.

btw, I think they got fungal growth back.



how do you know that?
eth3n
Profile Joined August 2010
718 Posts
December 07 2010 08:58 GMT
#15
On December 07 2010 17:52 Tossup wrote:
how do you know that?

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1306100875
Idra Potter: I don't use avada kedavra because i have self-respect.
johanngrunt
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Hong Kong1555 Posts
December 07 2010 09:20 GMT
#16
On December 07 2010 17:30 Tical3000 wrote:
what if the zerg like refrains from building lings and goes like.. all muta?


Was in the OP, he said to stop building voids and build phoenixes.
Douillos
Profile Joined May 2010
France3195 Posts
December 07 2010 09:21 GMT
#17
On December 07 2010 16:54 eth3n wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 16:52 Douillos wrote:
Wow between this and the terran 4OC build, dark dark times for zergs are coming :'(


VR speed is gone


And? does that make voids les scary?
Look a giraffe! Look a fist!!
Douillos
Profile Joined May 2010
France3195 Posts
December 07 2010 09:23 GMT
#18
On December 07 2010 17:58 eth3n wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 17:52 Tossup wrote:
how do you know that?

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1306100875



StarGasm ahhhhhhhh yeeeaaaaaaaaa

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eth3n
Profile Joined August 2010
718 Posts
December 07 2010 09:25 GMT
#19
On December 07 2010 18:21 Douillos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 16:54 eth3n wrote:
On December 07 2010 16:52 Douillos wrote:
Wow between this and the terran 4OC build, dark dark times for zergs are coming :'(


VR speed is gone


And? does that make voids les scary?


seems like it... it makes VRs incredibly less useful for harass (and easier to fungal) and will prevent P from letting the VRs stray too far from his base at all before reaching critical mass, allowing much easier 2 base contain (which is what OP mentions as the most annoying weakness of this strat anyway). I mean at least thats what comes to mind...
Idra Potter: I don't use avada kedavra because i have self-respect.
Animostas
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States568 Posts
December 07 2010 09:28 GMT
#20
On December 07 2010 17:30 Tical3000 wrote:
what if the zerg like refrains from building lings and goes like.. all muta?


If you scout properly, my guess would be to cannon up in the main not as much and get a lot of Phoenixes out instead.
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