|
Coming from World of Warcraft, I was used to not rely on a simple keyboard, but on something more user-friendly. This to be more specific:
N52TE
This toy is without doubt much more handy than a simple keyboard once you get used to it. You can customize it in multiple way, but just for reference, here it is my setup:
- The little pad on the side is bound to the arrow keys, to scroll the screen around
- The scroll wheel is bound to TAB/SHIFT-TAB to switch unit types in the current unit group
- The 15 buttons (notice the 15th is the bigger one on the side) are bound to the grid layout, and are awesome to quickly select any unit ability
- The outer button staying on the outside of this device, while pressed (could also be configured to a on/off switch, but I prefer by far the "while pressed" option), changes the layout of the 15 buttons. While pressed , 2 rows become bound to the 0-9 keys (to select groups) and the third to various general utility keys (W for warpgates, backspace, space, ESC). You just lose the 15th button cause it's impractical to press it while holding the outer one.
Together with this, I use a multi button mouse who also binds CTRL,ALT,SHIFT, PAGE U/D, and the mic push to talk.
It's undeniable that once you get accustomed to this (which was my setup of choice, but you could opt for one of your likings), it's way ahead of a normal keyboard - it just takes more to text chat cause you have to reach for the real keyboard 
I'm not interested in playing SC2 on a Pro level, doing live tournaments and such; playing the ladder will be the most I'll do. Still I'm pretty damn curious if using uncommon devices like this is allowed or not in various tournaments, and in which degree in case. I've heard that's not quite so, but do this extend to multi button mice as well then?
Anyway, if you don't play at tournament, I still think that you should really consider something like this (there are other similar models and brands around). My APM is indeed still poor (cause I'm bad), but would be utterly trash with a normal keyboard!
|
How are the different tournaments' view on using a macro-enabled device?
In wow for example it makes a too big difference and is probably banned.
|
What about playing with a graphic tablet?
|
By the way, this device actually has some very powerful macro options (I could bind certain buttons to do list of things), but I find macro quite useless in RTS games - except maybe auto-fire in Lost Vikings minigame :D - it would be much more helpful in WoW, but as you said it's not allowed, and I never used macros there either for fear of bans).
From a strict point of view, if binding keys to a mouse is allowed in tournaments (which I don't know for sure however), I don't see why it shouldn't be to bind keys on a keyboard. Is this not a keyboard? Yes it's not, strictly speaking, but in the keyboard thread in this same forum I've seen pics of keyboards WAY different than a classic keyboard.. would they be banned too, in case?
|
On October 20 2010 18:36 osten wrote:
How are the different tournaments' view on using a macro-enabled device?
In wow for example it makes a too big difference and is probably banned.
In wow tourneys, add-ons are not allowed but anything you can macro or script using the game interface is allowed, not sure if they allow you to run macro's from your keyboard but using an input like this doesn't actually give a significant advantage due to the heavy use of macro's anyway.
Infact using the OP's input would actually probably be a disadvantage since you don't have a full keyboard, which without having the use of addons can be horrible. When i started playing arena without addons i was glad for my full keyboard to bind up everything.
|
Looks awesome ...
But isnt that great for SC II ... cuz theres a grid function 
|
I WoW you are allowed to use in-game macro cause they are limited to a certain extend. For example, you can't do more than one attack (except those few outside the global cooldown) with a single "IRL" button click. A macro enabled device would allow you that. Plus you can't macro complex if-statements in the game, and other things.
As for having enough buttons to bind compared to a real keyboard, I used to configure this device in WoW so to have the standard configuration plus THREE state-switching keys. The result was I had up to (15-3)*4=48 possible keybinds. This is just a simple example, I could multi-bind even the pad, the wheel, and other secondary keys, easily reaching up to 100 keybinds and more. ALL UNDER A SINGLE PALM. No way a real keyboard could give me more options, and more importantly, so easily reachable.
Another option that it may be less useful in SC2 but was very good in WoW is the arrow pad you can operate with just the thumb. This in SC2, for example, lets you scroll the screen while keeping the mouse in the center of the screen, and all your fingers right on top of the main keybinds, for quicker micro. In WoW it lets you sidestep with ease while moving and turning with the mouse, still keeping fingers right on top of main keybinds.
Regarding this and SC2: I actually thought the developer had this device itself in mind .. doesn't seem strange that the command grid in SC2's interface is an exact 5x3 like in this device? :D In wow it wasn't and I actually had to use an addon to have a visual correspondence which could help me remember the actual binds.
|
Seems like everything I've seen says that this is not allowed in SC2. I think you make the case for it in the post above me, stating that you have tons of options for the different macros you can set up all on a 5x3 grid, meaning you can access more options with more speed and ease.
That's all to say that it gives you an unfair advantage. Which blizzard has stated is prohibited.
I think the line is that while you can rebind a given key to whatever you want, you can't give a key more than one function.
It's late where I am, so I'm going to link to another thread where this is discussed more and leave it at that. If I misunderstood something, sorry, but as far as I can tell, this device either won't work in game, or it will result in a ban. So, use with caution.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=155975
It deals with mouse macros, but I think it still covers this device, which seems to be somewhere between a mouse and a keyboard.
Specifically the post by Kikuichimonji about halfway down the first page, it links a blizz post that addresses the topic.
|
Thanks for the link, I'll look into it!
I'd say you got the way this device work right, however, I think there is a deep difference between a macro ( = a single key press which automatically does multiple programmed things, so you don't even have to even remember the exact sequence.. you could almost program a BO this way) and a key which may have different functions depending on the fact you had another state-changing button pressed or not, which is my case, and its almost like saying that writing capital letters is banned cause you have to combo it with shift .
Blizzards is usually quite vague on what's allowed and what's not, especially cause they prefer to judge in a case-by-case scenario, and cause those at customer's care can't take the responsibility of a final answer. However, they claim quite clearly that it's the "multiple actions with one keypress" which isn't allowed, and that you actually need to "push the keys yourself" to be legit. It's the actual "botting" which scares them, as this states (taken from previous poster's link):
![[image loading]](http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/7158/macros2.png)
My main question, however, was not if I risk a ban or not (I'm VERY convinced I do not), but if things like these are allowed in tournaments or not, and in which degree of flexibility (am I prevented even from using a mouse with a special button mirroring SHIFT?).
|
I don't think this would cause any trouble for you. It doesn't really create an advantage for you. It's more of a convenience. It may technically be against the ToS, but I wouldn't be too worried if I were you.
Just don't use any macro features on anything with such capabilities.
|
Of course keyboard macros make a difference from wow script macros, they are alot more powerful, like Malhavoc says you can't have a press make more than one spell ingame, then it's illegal. I think macros can be really useful and not allowed, such as splitting workers perfectly, I am pretty sure someone has made a macro for that at least for BW.
That being said I've looked into that device and I think it would be really sweet to have, but 100 times more if I played wow than playing sc2.
|
Belgium9950 Posts
Didn't Blizzard take an official stance against keyboard macros in SC2?
|
I wouldn't use that thing but if it works for you laddering that's cool. Good luck with it.
|
Just wanted to add my two cents,
This device is great little gem, and works wonders in almost every game i have played with it. Not only can you decide which keys does what, but you have a really nice rest for your hand, and since i work a lot with computers (Photoshop/Maya), not having too much stress on my wrist and fingers while working /playing its an absolute godsend.
For me i set it up completely different, i have the thumb arrow keys set to 1-2-3-4 for control groups along with the scroll wheel to 5-6 in respective directions this makes it really easy to jump between groups fast but i am limited to 4 easy groups and 2 hard to reach groups. My grid buttons are like this:
[backspace] Q-W-E-R
[SHIFT] A-S-D-T
[CTRL] f5-f6-C
I also use grid setup for hotkeys and have z and x bound to my mouse buttons for eaz pezz abilities like stim and storm. The C on the grid is for drops/scan ect. the little button above the arrow keys i use for tab.
I put a lot of thought into my setup but i think after seeing your setup that i might catch on to the tap on scroll thing 
Also as long as you don't use macros on your keys, i cant see the problem, its buttons and we have to press em like everyone else, however my buttons are placed very handy and for total ergonomic comfort.
I also fail to see why people whine so much about specialized peripherals (not that this has happened in this thread yet) - i mean come on, we could at least get custom hotkeys?! You have to remember that one persons optimal setup is another persons ergonomic nightmare (considering hand sizes, preferred finger usage, hand angle and so on)
In other pro sports, people customize everything from how they tie their shoes, to their diet, to how their clothing is fitted. Now this doesn't give anyone a unfair advantage but it lets the individual perform (to some degree) at their maximum potential.
I use this peripheral and i am not good at this game, nor does it make me any better by itself, but it helps me play the way i play best, and the best thing is, i am able to change things here and there if need be to optimize that feeling even more.
its funny to me that the people who rack these kinds of things down (peripherals and hotkeys) are the same guys saying that playing with standard hotkeys, an old intelli mouse and a IBM brickboard is the only REAL way to play, well that might be true for you mr. but it may not be the case for everyone.
ah well, just my 2c - srry for the wall of text
|
United States7481 Posts
as far as i know, this is legal as it follows the 1 action=1 button press. so as long as you don't create any crazy macros, you should be fine
|
I have the N52TE. It has some probs... get the older version if you can.
I feel it could be really awesome for RTS if you could get used to it but I would recommend it for MMOs.
|
+ Show Spoiler +
USB hand warmers, you caught me.
But seriously. I would prefer people use a keyboard and mouse like every other pro but this is not a perfect world.
1 action per 1 button press is fine at the moment but I tend to look down upon people with stuff like that. just me.
|
I'm sure you're allowed to rebind keys....
In wow, there is actually a "keybinds" menu for you to do this.
It would just be ridiculous if they did not allow you to PLAY A GAME comfortably. (Thats right kids, starcraft is still a game played for enjoyment and ABSOLUTE MURDERING of time.)
|
On October 20 2010 18:41 Tryptic wrote:
What about playing with a graphic tablet?
Tried it, was awesome, lost game.
|
I have a Logitech G13, similar layout to the OPs Belkin and although the Grid layout works great on it (with close proximity to cursor keys to scroll), it is missing another row of keys for binding to groups. So while you can get away with using these gamepads (that's what they are known as methinks) you will miss out on being able to bind your production buildings and attack groups and that is rather important since it saves you from having to block select all the time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.belkin.com/images/product/F8GFPC200/STD1_F8GFPC200.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/rabbit_usb_hand_warmers.jpg)
