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It has come to my attention that 116 of you are having trouble with the TvZ matchup. If you are one of those 116 people, this thread is just for you. Here, I will teach you how to win this oh so terrible matchup and help you realize that it is actually really quite fun to play. So, are you ready to start some major ass kicking? Damn straight. Let's get started.
So, everyone knows Terran has lots of cool flashy units they can play around with, more than any other race, in fact. They have hellions which hard counter zerglings, marauders which hard counter roaches, thors which hard counter mutalisks, and siege tanks which hard counter hydralisks. But that's not all. The absolute best part about Terran is that they have literally a billion openings they can choose from, each just as viable as the next. And, what's even better, the map pool makes some of these openings just that much harder (or even, dare I say it, impossible) to defend against. You find yourself spawning on Lost Temple or Kulas Ravine? Go 8 rax reaper or thor drop or siege tank drop. Or maybe you're playing on one of those new maps where the ramp is light years away from the natural? Do a nice reactor hellion opening, or even just take a page out of the Protoss's book and do a simple 1 base all-in attack.
Here's a little guide for your options:
Thor Drop (use exclusively on Lost Temple and Kulas Ravine):
10 supply
12 rax
13 gas
15 OC/supply
@ 100 gas, factory
take your 2nd gas ASAP
@ 50% factory, get a tech lab on your rax
@ 100% factory, build an armory and switch your rax and fac
start building hellions for early pressure and try to force him to over-commit on defense
build a starport when gas allows
get a viking for some sweet ovie hunting, then build a medivac
build a thor when the armory finishes
drop the thor on the natural ledge and kill his expo
congratulations, you win!
take your expo and transition into a unit composition of your choosing (I personally prefer marine/marauder/medivac/thor)
Replay
Replay
8 Rax Reaper (use on any map):
8 rax
9 gas
11 supply
tech lab when rax finishes
nitro packs with next 50 gas
keep building reapers
have your scout SCV build a bunker somewhere in his base (at his ramp if he's on 1 base, at his natural if he's on 2)
add more rax and keep building reaper
micro your reapers - like hellions, micro'd reapers beat any non-lair unit zerg has due to range and speed
snipe key buildings - you'll be surprised how fast 8+ reapers kill a spawning pool or a spire or a roach warren
congratulations, you win!
Replay
Igniter Hellion Drop (use on any map):
10 supply
12 rax
13 gas
15 OC/supply
@ 100 gas, factory
take your second gas ASAP
tech lab on your rax next
@ 100% factory, switch fac and rax and build a hellion and start infernal pre-igniter research
starport with your next 100 gas
medivac once starport is done
feel free to pressure with your first few hellions (force sunks at his nat) as long as you don't lose them - they're precious 
once your medivac is out, you should have 4 hellions ready to drop into his main
drop your hellions in his main and fry all his drones
congratulations, you win!
Replay
Replay
A note on the replays: Keep in mind that I'm a diamond level Zerg player offracing as Terran against equally skilled opponents.
Just three openings, you ask? Don't be silly! You see, I'm not going to tell you all of the wonderful secrets this deep and mysterious race has to offer! That, my friend, is for you to discover on your own. I'll give you a little hint, though. As long as you're spending all of your money and getting your units out in a timely manner (as fast as possible), anything's viable (except maybe a battlecruiser rush). Want to try hellion into banshee into viking? Go ahead, it will probably work. Or a marauder hellion attack on maps with a short rush distance? Go for it!
I am just speaking from my own experience as both a Zerg player and a TvZ player. This is a matchup you really should not be losing, especially in the current map pool, as long as you're not playing someone light years better than you. For any of you Zerg or Terran players who don't believe me, I'm up for any and all challenges. So thanks to Blizzard, for making such a fun and diverse matchup. I've only played about 20 games so far in TvZ, but I'm loving every minute of it! I have so much control over the game flow, and I have so many possibilities. Blizzard, you've really outdone yourselves this time!
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Nice guide. I'm sure this will boost all of you struggling to at least 60% win rate in this matchup.
Also if your opponent doesn't immediately leave after the hellions get dropped, start making cloaked banshees.
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I love TvZ. So many options and almost any early tech path works
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thors which hard counter mutalisks
False.
Stop 1a'ing
Your obvious butthurt and scathing sarcasm over not being able to beat terran as zerg really shows through the entire post. TL staff should be above posts like this. Race switch or get good.
User was warned for this post
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On August 02 2010 10:12 kNyTTyM wrote:
Nice guide. I'm sure this will boost all of you struggling to at least 60% win rate in this matchup.
Also if your opponent doesn't immediately leave after the hellions get dropped, start making cloaked banshees.
Oh that's just plain rude lol
Harassing zerg enough will kill him psychologically and if he has a lot of expos, it's just that much better for you.
One cool build that mrlie3 posted a while ago that used early ghosts to nuke tech structures. If the zergs neglects to get an overseer, two nukes will put him back so far. And snipes can handle hydras and mutas pretty well if you have good mouse control (which I don't  )
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On August 02 2010 10:16 SubtleArt wrote:
I love TvZ. So many options and almost any early tech path works
And Zerg can't scout which tech path you're going! So Zerg has to waste so many resources defending against all of them. This is especially useful when the counter is more expensive than the tactic (LT cliff drop)
On August 02 2010 10:23 RandomBS wrote:False. Stop 1a'ing Your obvious butthurt and scathing sarcasm over not being able to beat terran as zerg really shows through the entire post. TL staff should be above posts like this. Race switch or get good.
With a perfect split, 4 mutalisks are about even with 1 thor.
With more of both, the numbers move to favor the thor (because the mutas inevitably need to enter splash range to focus fire).
That's not a counter?
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On August 02 2010 10:23 RandomBS wrote:False. Stop 1a'ing Your obvious butthurt and scathing sarcasm over not being able to beat terran as zerg really shows through the entire post. TL staff should be above posts like this. Race switch or get good.
Thors do counter Mutas quite well? One thor (300/200) easily beat 3 mutas (300/300) and as the numbers get bigger, more mutas become affected by the splash.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
In my defense, I play T lol
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and as the numbers get bigger, more mutas become affected by the splash.
Like I said, stop 1aing. Split them.
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On August 02 2010 10:31 RandomBS wrote:Like I said, stop 1aing. Split them.
How many mutas can be in range of a thor without allowing themselves to eat splash damage?
It's not a rhetorical question, the answer is about 6
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On August 02 2010 10:31 RandomBS wrote:Like I said, stop 1aing. Split them.
Are you contributing anything? You'll find your "randomBS" statements not appreciated. As numbers get bigger, it's harder to split, especially flying units. You're response is the equivalent of saying "storm doesn't counter hydra in BW, you just storm dodge and split them." With the exception you don't even go that far in depth with your response.
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On August 02 2010 10:23 RandomBS wrote:False. Stop 1a'ing Your obvious butthurt and scathing sarcasm over not being able to beat terran as zerg really shows through the entire post. TL staff should be above posts like this. Race switch or get good.
Lurkers may not hard counter marines but I'm not going to risk attacking into 6 of them even with micro.
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On August 02 2010 10:23 RandomBS wrote:False. Stop 1a'ing Your obvious butthurt and scathing sarcasm over not being able to beat terran as zerg really shows through the entire post. TL staff should be above posts like this. Race switch or get good.
For any of you Zerg or Terran players who don't believe me, I'm up for any and all challenges.
I'll play either matchup: ZvT or TvZ. Up to you.
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Indepth eh? Well according to the OP all I have to do is follow those build orders and I'll win instantly every single game! So I didn't think indepth would be needed in this thread. To be completely honest it sounds like saracen just got facerolled on the ladder by a few terrans and made this thread to vent his rage.
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On August 02 2010 10:36 RandomBS wrote:
Indepth eh? Well according to the OP all I have to do is follow those build orders and I'll win instantly every single game! So I didn't think indepth would be needed in this thread. To be completely honest it sounds like saracen just got facerolled on the ladder by a few terrans and made this thread to vent his rage.
So the OP isn't detailed - that's your defense for being as vague and combative as possible?
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On August 02 2010 10:36 RandomBS wrote:
Indepth eh? Well according to the OP all I have to do is follow those build orders and I'll win instantly every single game! So I didn't think indepth would be needed in this thread. To be completely honest it sounds like saracen just got facerolled on the ladder by a few terrans and made this thread to vent his rage.
I'm saying your response to other people in the thread with retarded comments such as "stop 1aing" and repeating it isn't clever. I would say Saracen's OP is far in depth enough, giving precise build orders AND replays.
Your posts are bad enough that I've been on the border on deciding whether or not to report them (I didn't, fyi).
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On August 02 2010 10:37 fdsdfg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2010 10:36 RandomBS wrote:
Indepth eh? Well according to the OP all I have to do is follow those build orders and I'll win instantly every single game! So I didn't think indepth would be needed in this thread. To be completely honest it sounds like saracen just got facerolled on the ladder by a few terrans and made this thread to vent his rage. So the OP isn't detailed - that's your defense for being as vague and combative as possible?
Yes, the entire point of my shitty troll posts are that this is a bad, inflammatory It thread, and the OP should really be ashamed for making it. And he knows it. It's the kind of thing a new poster like me would be flamed/suspended for.
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On August 02 2010 10:41 RandomBS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2010 10:37 fdsdfg wrote:On August 02 2010 10:36 RandomBS wrote:
Indepth eh? Well according to the OP all I have to do is follow those build orders and I'll win instantly every single game! So I didn't think indepth would be needed in this thread. To be completely honest it sounds like saracen just got facerolled on the ladder by a few terrans and made this thread to vent his rage. So the OP isn't detailed - that's your defense for being as vague and combative as possible? Yes, the entire point of my shitty troll posts are that this is a bad, inflammatory It thread, and the OP should really be ashamed for making it. And he knows it. It's the kind of thing a new poster like me would be flamed/suspended for.
I don't know Saracen very well, but I've seen tons of staff humor inserted into plenty of threads. Ever see Chill's posts?
He included an relatively precise build order guide on a matchup, and was referencing how he thought it was amusing some people thought the MU was balanced in favor of Zerg. Clearly the poll shows the majority opinion is clearly the opposite.
If someone made a guide with this humor referring to ZvP in BW prior to the Protoss Revolution by Bisu, everyone would understand it. The humor originates from a general consensus amongst players that TvZ is in favor of T. All I've seen you done is not use humor, but have "shitty troll posts," that you admit to. Which is the kind of thing a new poster like you is being flamed for and would be suspended for.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
We obviously need to have a show match between Saracen and RandomBS to determine who is right.
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EPT
