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[Map] Torrasque

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
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MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-02 15:19:51
June 30 2010 01:26 GMT
#1
Map preview: (694x704)
[image loading]
High quality image (1338x1408)

Players: 2
Size: 128x128

Money
Main: 8 mineral, 2 gas
Natural: 5 rich mineral, 2gas
3rd: 8 mineral, 2 gas
4th: 7mineral, 2 gas
Top right corner: 8 mineral, 2 gas
Middle base: 6 rich mineral, 2 gas

Concept
+ Show Spoiler +
standard macro map was my goal. u start in these close positions in air distance but to reach each other you can choose to go through the cave with the hostile ultralisk or the way around it which is a little longer.
by the ultralisk is a neutral creep tumor which boosts the ultralisk speed.
now i say again, the ultralisk is hostile so it will start attack ur units if u come close to it, once u exit the cave he will turn around and walk home ^^

there are 2 ramps in ur main base, 1 which leads out to the open and 1 which leads to the natural base.
the first way is blocked by destructible rocks which is a way potential backstabbing in case ur opponent decides to fast expand, should play out like blistering sands but less extreme.

the natural base is made out of rich minerals so it will run out quite quickly but with maximum workers it will give same income as a normal blue natural.

u get out of ur natural is a big wide open space with a watch tower in the middle of it. this watch tower is on a small high ground but the ramp sticks in the reverse direction, which would give more of an edge to a possible contain rather than a defender.

top left corner and bottom right corner are the 3rd bases, very far from ur opponent and should be very safe to take, which is good to compensate for the cheap natural.

the 4th base is easily harassed from the high ground, map control and scouting intel is pretty important to keep this base from getting destroyed or harassed to death.

the map theme overall is that i want the players to climb up the map and grab a base at a time and in late game fight for the top right corner expansion. i want the game flow to be like the sc1 map ride of valkyries where the player who climbed the most is rewarded with higher ground and more map presence.
the map is quite large for a 2 player map but it should be fine i think.


Personal notes
+ Show Spoiler +
the map might be a little boring or too obvious or macro-oriented but i wanted to switch direction from my last map city of mengsk, macro player like me would probably feel more comfortable on maps like this^^


Observations
+ Show Spoiler +
the ultralisk is hostile so he will attack incoming units. the ultralisk will turn around after a certain number of time and dsitance, he will not follow you into the opponents natural for example.

the creep tumor gives speed bonus to all zerg units, it can only killed by splash damage until u get detector and then target fire it to kill it.


Image Links
Torrasque chilling with his tumor buddy at the middle expo
First watch tower
Second tower

Line of sight blocker (los): none
Watch Tower: 4 of them located outside the natural and between the 4th base and the neutral corner base at 2 o clock
Destructible debris/rocks: 1 in the second main ramp (2000 hp)

Version 1.1
- made it visually easier to see ramps and divide high ground from low ground
- made the choke point between second tower cliff to the other side into the map smaller
- pushed out the cliffs between the very large center ramp to stick out a bit more into the low ground passage
- added in more water behind the ultralisk cave to make the area more cramped but also walk distance longer in comparison through the cave
- added some water at the far top right expo
- 1 mineral field added to the 3rd bases


Talked to my friend DIMAGA about the map and his thoughts around use of hostile and neutral units in maps. for those who dont know dimaga he is a top zerg gamer and has done very well so far in the beta stage
+ Show Spoiler +
Q: what do you think about using neutral units or structures such as creep tumors in melee maps?

A: for zerg its better with creep tumor :D
i think now map makers have very big potential to be creative


Q: what are your thoughts of using hostile units that will attack on sight, like this ultralisk for instance, do you think this has great potential for interesting maps or is it too complicated or boring?

A: its not bad

Q: what do you think about having rich gold minerals in the natural base? could this be balanced or would it favor a race more than another, if so - which race would benefit the most from a gold natural?

A: i think its not too bad but terrans mule its really will be too strong i think

Q: what do you think about the backdoor to the mainbase with destructible rocks. i know blistering sands has this too. what do you think about this idea to have backdoor to main base?
do you think its bad for gameplay or adds interesting dynamic?

A: its good idea but its not the same as blisttering sands cause this rock is near main entrance

Q: im not pvz expert but zerg seemed to have trouble vs protoss on blistering vs mass warpgate just because of this backdoor exit, the spinecrawlers just cant be everywhere. i also heard artosis talk about this in a glhf.it game analyse.
is this true?

A: dunno, i dont have such BIG problem cause have my own playstyle ^^
but in theory sure its huge important things for protoss, just build one pylon and u can warp
any units^^


Q: also stalkers can blink past them while zerg always must kill :D, burrow can not move under
moving on to this actual map. as a top zerg player, which race would you say is strongest in zvt?

A: its better then scrap station :D seems balanced

what would you advise to me as a mapmaker to make it more balanced?

A: hmm i think we need test it

Q: what do you feel about in zvp on this map, which race do you think would be strongest and is there anything you would like changed to give more balance?

A: aaa its hard to say smth without practice TT its close resp by flying and far by road so... all can happen..
i think questions about map is hard to answer without testing, after testing i think my opinions can maybe change i dont know


Q: indeed its hard to judge a map without testing it, white ra thought the same when i talked to him about city of mengsk
whats your overall opinion about this map?

A: my opinion its not bad map and i think its playable

tnx alot for this little interview

A: yea sure no problem


Poll: Hostile units in Melee maps?

Great potential (180)
 
75%

Too complicated (34)
 
14%

Boring (27)
 
11%

241 total votes

Your vote: Hostile units in Melee maps?

(Vote): Great potential
(Vote): Boring
(Vote): Too complicated



Download Map: Published to Europe server.
Read more about how to download the map.

Other maps:
Argutaris
Othello
Byzantium
City of Mengsk
Torrasque
Landscape
Black Rainbow
Gaia
Medusa
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
oursblanc
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1450 Posts
June 30 2010 01:28 GMT
#2
That looks quite unique and exciting. I like it.
An oasis of horror in a desert of boredom!
Inschato
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada1349 Posts
June 30 2010 01:32 GMT
#3
Questions:

1) How exactly does that neutral ultralisk work, is it for UMS only or does it work with the other settings?

2) The bases are out of siege tank range of each-other right? They're really quite close anyway...

Suggestion: For LOS blockers, might I suggest a line of them somewhere just past the natural, to encourage flanking around that hill thing.
3.
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
June 30 2010 01:35 GMT
#4
On June 30 2010 10:32 Inschato wrote:
Questions:

1) How exactly does that neutral ultralisk work, is it for UMS only or does it work with the other settings?

2) The bases are out of siege tank range of each-other right? They're really quite close anyway...

Suggestion: For LOS blockers, might I suggest a line of them somewhere just past the natural, to encourage flanking around that hill thing.

it works for melee

u can basically in the editor choose the unit to be Neutral or Hostile. hostile units will attack on sight and u will attack them on sight while neutral units u will be allied to. the tumor is neutral and the ultralisk is hostile

the bases are supposed to be short to each other, i dont believe tanks could range over and even if they could simply dont make ur stuff at the very edge lol, is this an issue to u because in my eyes its really not. i just wanted to encourage aerial playstyle and harassment
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
Jenslyn87
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark527 Posts
June 30 2010 01:37 GMT
#5
Such a cool map... I wish the beta was up so I could try it. Would definitely play it even though I play mostly ladder. Looks awesome man :O

I love that you gave it a spin with the ultralisk
Hmmm, I wonder what terran is doiAAAAARGH BANSHEEEEES
Inschato
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada1349 Posts
June 30 2010 01:38 GMT
#6
Well if they were in range, "not building at the edge" wouldn't be an option since that's where the gas is, but I don't think they're in range anyway. Otherwise the distance isn't really much of an issue though it probably encourages void ray cheese in PvZ (I don't really know how often that works these days, since I stopped playing a few months ago (My CPU died)) or whatnot. Otherwise not really a big deal at all.

Thumbs up to this map overall ^_^
3.
Kratisto
Profile Joined June 2008
United States199 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 01:41:52
June 30 2010 01:38 GMT
#7
Tarrasque is spelled with an A (two, rather)... I don't think Wizards of the Coast enforces their copyrights on SC2 maps.

Also, it looks like Incineration Zone. What's the rush distance?
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 01:41:58
June 30 2010 01:41 GMT
#8
On June 30 2010 10:38 Kratisto wrote:
Tarrasque is spelled with an A (two, rather)... I don't think Wizards of the Coast enforces their copyrights on SC2 maps.

i dont see what ur driving at at all but i took the name from the sc1 ultralisk hero ^^
isnt wizards of the coast magic company?
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
MasterFwiffo
Profile Joined April 2010
United States97 Posts
June 30 2010 01:42 GMT
#9
This works in melee?

That is awesome. Awesome, awesome map.
Every morning we wake up and pray Oh God, Please dont let me die today, tomorrow would be SO much better!
Ducci
Profile Joined April 2009
United States588 Posts
June 30 2010 01:42 GMT
#10
this kinda looks like dreamliner from osl
Mykill
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada3402 Posts
June 30 2010 01:43 GMT
#11
i have a feeling ZvZ on this would be weird. really early scout and you see exactly what each other is doing.
[~~The Impossible Leads To Invention~~] CJ Entusman #52 The problem with internet quotations is that they are hard to verify -Abraham Lincoln c.1863
Kratisto
Profile Joined June 2008
United States199 Posts
June 30 2010 01:43 GMT
#12
On June 30 2010 10:41 MorroW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2010 10:38 Kratisto wrote:
Tarrasque is spelled with an A (two, rather)... I don't think Wizards of the Coast enforces their copyrights on SC2 maps.

i dont see what ur driving at at all but i took the name from the sc1 ultralisk hero ^^
isnt wizards of the coast magic company?


The Tarrasque is a monster from Dungeons and Dragons. It's nigh unkillable, and sort of looks like a huge dinosaur. I didn't know about the SC1 hero named in reference.
blahman3344
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2015 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 01:45:02
June 30 2010 01:44 GMT
#13
I really like the idea of having a neutral ultralisk. My question is: will it be able to kill a scouting worker before it escapes from the cave?
Hmm...I really like the fact that the natural expo is gold, because that, as you said, encourages macro-heavy play. (Not to mention it will make it easier to recover from harass with the gold minerals).

This map really reminds me of dreamliner, mainly because of the close aerial distance between bases, as well as the curvy route you need to take to push to your opponents base.

edit: also the area without rocks in the center kinda looks like a plane too =0
I like haikus and / I can not lie. You other / brothers can't deny
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
June 30 2010 01:48 GMT
#14
uhh, can you use a worker to lure the ultralisk into the enemies base?

this is the first thing that came to mind and it would be a little obnoxious if you can...
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 01:50:48
June 30 2010 01:49 GMT
#15
On June 30 2010 10:44 blahman3344 wrote:
I really like the idea of having a neutral ultralisk. My question is: will it be able to kill a scouting worker before it escapes from the cave?
Hmm...I really like the fact that the natural expo is gold, because that, as you said, encourages macro-heavy play. (Not to mention it will make it easier to recover from harass with the gold minerals).

This map really reminds me of dreamliner, mainly because of the close aerial distance between bases, as well as the curvy route you need to take to push to your opponents base.

edit: also the area without rocks in the center kinda looks like a plane too =0

thats funny because i never even heard of that dreamliner map before xD

if u send in a scout u can dodge the ultra with epic micro but its not so safe to be honest. if i send a worker straight move to enemy base then i would probably not feel so confident it would make it out alive.
i didnt wanna be too extreme with the hostile units power by adding more units to the map but yes the ultra might not change the gameplay too too much but it should be fun to see how this affects rushes seeing how u gotta dodge the big man all the time. adds nice feeling to the map but my goal wasnt that the map itself would rely on hostile units

On June 30 2010 10:48 sob3k wrote:
uhh, can you use a worker to lure the ultralisk into the enemies base?

this is the first thing that came to mind and it would be a little obnoxious if you can...

written in the OP that it will turn around after a while, i already tested it
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
RodrigoX
Profile Joined November 2009
United States645 Posts
June 30 2010 01:52 GMT
#16
It looks very very interesting. Not sure how I feel about a "Hostile" ultralisk but I love the gold expo as a natural. So so so interesting. Expands my mind to a whole new range of possibilities.
We were all raised on televion that made us believe we'd all be Millionairs, Movie gods, and Rockstars..... But we won't.... We are slowly learning that fact. And we are very, very pissed off.
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
June 30 2010 01:52 GMT
#17
On June 30 2010 10:49 MorroW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2010 10:44 blahman3344 wrote:
I really like the idea of having a neutral ultralisk. My question is: will it be able to kill a scouting worker before it escapes from the cave?
Hmm...I really like the fact that the natural expo is gold, because that, as you said, encourages macro-heavy play. (Not to mention it will make it easier to recover from harass with the gold minerals).

This map really reminds me of dreamliner, mainly because of the close aerial distance between bases, as well as the curvy route you need to take to push to your opponents base.

edit: also the area without rocks in the center kinda looks like a plane too =0

thats funny because i never even heard of that dreamliner map before xD

if u send in a scout u can dodge the ultra with epic micro but its not so safe to be honest. if i send a worker straight move to enemy base then i would probably not feel so confident it would make it out alive.
i didnt wanna be too extreme with the hostile units power by adding more units to the map but yes the ultra might not change the gameplay too too much but it should be fun to see how this affects rushes seeing how u gotta dodge the big man all the time. adds nice feeling to the map but my goal wasnt that the map itself would rely on hostile units

Show nested quote +
On June 30 2010 10:48 sob3k wrote:
uhh, can you use a worker to lure the ultralisk into the enemies base?

this is the first thing that came to mind and it would be a little obnoxious if you can...

written in the OP that it will turn around after a while, i already tested it


Sorry, I read it looking for that and somehow missed it...looks great other than that.

I'm gonna get my friends to play me on this map without telling them about the ultra...lol
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9830 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-30 01:57:11
June 30 2010 01:56 GMT
#18
can you kill torrasque? and i guess you cant really buff the hp/damage to that of the sc hero? =\

also, it'd be really awesome if you could kill it, but it'd keep respawning unless you killed a cerebrate in the corner.
boomer hands
Turbo.Tactics
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany675 Posts
June 30 2010 01:57 GMT
#19
I like it very much! The Ultralisk is a very creative idea. I still doubt it's balance because Terran can overcome the Ultralisk way earlier than Zerg and Toss. Also, does "neutral creep tumor" mean no speedboost for Zerg? Because I thought creep itself is neutral anyways.

This might be intresting to play! Perhaps you can "Creepjack" the Terran while he is trying to kill the Ultra early with Marauders :D
Zerg - because Browders sons hate 'em
Easy772
Profile Joined May 2010
374 Posts
June 30 2010 01:58 GMT
#20
lol someone played D&D

Great map though.
"The best way to improve is to play one matchup on one map doing one strategy.. if you are good at one strategy you are a good player, if you are okay at many strategies you are an okay player at best" -Day[9] 181
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