• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:08
CEST 08:08
KST 15:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-227Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-69SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)14
StarCraft 2
General
Protoss AoE skill expression Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Serral wins HomeStory Cup 29 StarCraft 2 at SC4ALL II Invite #4/8 - Percival 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Are you ready for ASL 22? NEW HYPE VIDEO How FlaSh Nearly Forfeited MSL Finals being late BW General Discussion ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
2v2v2v2 Tournament KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo 2 thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Iain M Banks Says He Has Cancer And Months To Live European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
NBA General Discussion Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6074 users

Attack upgrade chart

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
Karma_
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada40 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-06 16:03:46
June 06 2010 01:39 GMT
#1
I was curious about which attack upgrades actually had a measurable difference (ie. number of hits) against various other units. So I made a program to simulate matchups and out came a giant chart.

Extremely well balanced, almost every upgrade is useful against every other unit. Kinda amazing actually. Most of all the first upgrade (+1) makes a big difference.

Yes it takes into consideration special things like hardened shields, number of attacks, zerg regen, etc, and it's up to date with patch 15.

Some interesting ones like +1 on mutas dropping stalker hits to kill from 20 to 17! that and +2 on roaches being less than stellar in a ZvZ matchup (no effect on lings or on hydras as compared to +1).

"Upg" column is number of hits, "Time" column is how many seconds it takes to kill one, "Win" column is if this unit beats the other in a 1v1.

Will probably do a "cost for cost" chart later on.

EDIT: Added armor upgrades and shield upgrades. Only on the XLS file for now. As expected, armor/shield upgrades are really only useful against low damage units like zerglings or marines, and have no effect in some cases, for example, Zerg against Terran mech.

Here it is in Excel: http://www.tacticstudios.com/downloads/sc2_upgrades.xls
Here it is in Text: http://www.tacticstudios.com/downloads/sc2_upgrades.txt
Here is the source code: http://www.tacticstudios.com/downloads/sc2_src.rar

Karma
Bouchnick
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada12 Posts
June 06 2010 01:42 GMT
#2
Really nice work man!! :D
Timax around the world.
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
June 06 2010 01:52 GMT
#3
Tanks, that was actually just the thing I was looking for A couple of things are wrong though as according to your charts Sieged Tanks can shoot BC's/ Banshees and Vikings while Thors are apparantly unable to hit air

Maybe you did the 'ol Switcheroo?
I think esports is pretty nice.
Iubaris
Profile Joined June 2009
United States14 Posts
June 06 2010 01:56 GMT
#4
Might want to fix your text file - Long names push all the columns to the right.
GWash
Profile Joined May 2010
United States153 Posts
June 06 2010 01:56 GMT
#5
On June 06 2010 10:52 Saechiis wrote:
Tanks, that was actually just the thing I was looking for A couple of things are wrong though as according to your charts Sieged Tanks can shoot BC's/ Banshees and Vikings while Thors are apparantly unable to hit air

Maybe you did the 'ol Switcheroo?

He fixed whatever you were seeing. I can't find the discrepancy.
Karma_
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada40 Posts
June 06 2010 01:57 GMT
#6
Saechiis for the thors and vikings I split them into two: Thor "Air" and Viking "Air". I should probably couple these together. For the tanks I'm not sure where you're seeing that, maybe reading it backwards? The ones on the left are the attackers, right is the defender. For me it shows:

Siege Tank Viking Air Unhittable
Siege Tank Banshee Unhittable
Siege Tank Battlecruiser Unhittable
Ocedic
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1808 Posts
June 06 2010 02:00 GMT
#7
Good work but does it take into account bonus damages? For example, I see it says Baneling takes 2 hits to kill a Zergling, which is false.
Mikilatov
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States3897 Posts
June 06 2010 02:05 GMT
#8
Very cool. I'm going to use this.

Any chance we can get workers put into it too? I'd be curious to see which harassing units could kill workers in less hits with an upgrade or two.

Also, you should freeze the top row using 'freeze panes' so it stays there while the rest of the sheet scrolls.

Thanks much =)
♥ I used to lasso the shit out of your tournaments =( ♥ | Much is my hero. | zizi yO~ | Be Nice, TL.
Karma_
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada40 Posts
June 06 2010 02:09 GMT
#9
Wooops Good catch Ocedic. Yes it takes those into account but things that killed exactly (ie. 35 dmg to 1 zergling) didn't count correctly. Fixed!
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-06 02:31:49
June 06 2010 02:14 GMT
#10
"Thor Mutalisk Unhittable"

It's definately there in the Text version, the Siege tanks being able to hit air is fixed (or I'm blind ).



Edit: Oooh, I get it now ... but why the Thor vs Thor Air split? Seems logical that it uses Air attacks vs air and Ground attacks vs ground. Besides my confusion and blindness, great job
I think esports is pretty nice.
JiYan
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3668 Posts
June 06 2010 02:15 GMT
#11
wow kudos to you for doing this work
sk`
Profile Joined November 2008
Japan442 Posts
June 06 2010 02:29 GMT
#12
Missing Queen. Otherwise, amazing information.
www.pureesports.com
BackupHero
Profile Joined June 2010
United States5 Posts
June 06 2010 02:45 GMT
#13
Great job, but I think you accidentally set Banelings as a light unit in your program. Also, I think that you set reaper's HP to 40 instead of 50 (that's what the data looks like). Other than that, its pretty sweet.
Backpack
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1776 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-06 02:56:17
June 06 2010 02:55 GMT
#14
On June 06 2010 11:29 sk` wrote:
Missing Queen. Otherwise, amazing information.

I would also like to see overlord and workers
"You people need to just generally care a lot less about everything." -Zatic
lololol
Profile Joined February 2006
5198 Posts
June 06 2010 07:58 GMT
#15
You also have to take zerg regeneration into account, since zerg units always regenerate a miniscule amount of health(it's displayed as 1 extra health, since the game display rounds health up, but it's actually less) between any two attacks and since the engine is linear, you can't have two attacks happen at exactly the same time, so the only case where the regeneration does not apply is one hit kills.

For example: mutas die to 7x2 phoenix/viking attacks, instead of 6x2(at equal upgrade levels).
I'll call Nada.
Genesis128
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway103 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-06 09:38:03
June 06 2010 09:37 GMT
#16
Wow. Mad props, this is absolutely amazing!

I'm really really looking forward to when you get the costwise compariosn up and running. Though it would probably be somewhat wrong since you will have large battles then, and then splash damage would be hard to interpet correctly, and given the fact that ranged units get off more hits as melee units are approaching. But give it your best shot and I'm looking forward to reading your results. Also would be nice to see if this thread has correct in that ultralisks have no costwise ground-counter.

I would also like to see a column for defensive upgrades. I guess this wouldn't be too much work, you just add 3 more columns with -1, -2 and -3 upgrades, corresponding to the case where the defender has the armour upgrades. There would actually be cases not covered where you have both attack and armour upgrades (not all cancel one-for-one), but for simplicity I think you should assume that there are only armour or attack upgrades present, not both.

Anyway. Great work and keep it up!
I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
reza
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada213 Posts
June 06 2010 09:48 GMT
#17
Wow! If you don't mind me asking how long did it take you to do this?
Delvin
Profile Joined August 2007
Finland141 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-06 09:50:36
June 06 2010 09:49 GMT
#18
Nice chart indeed.

You could also add Ultralisk +2 armor and maybe point defense turrent/infested terran, etc.
thisFish
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany42 Posts
June 06 2010 09:51 GMT
#19
thanks for all your work! :-)
"Stick a fork in those buns!"
Panoptic
Profile Joined September 2009
United Kingdom515 Posts
June 06 2010 09:51 GMT
#20
Seriously awesome. How about static defenses?
"Crom laughs at your four winds!"
1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
00:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #20
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft667
NeuroSwarm 150
Nina 94
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 6402
Rain 2956
GuemChi 2199
Leta 177
Sexy 63
yabsab 38
Noble 24
Icarus 10
ZergMaN 9
Britney 0
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King125
Other Games
summit1g7001
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick669
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2194
League of Legends
• Lourlo1204
• Rush479
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Weekly
4h 52m
The Patches Monday
9h 52m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 3h
PiG Sty Festival
1d 5h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 17h
Replay Cast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-08
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
META DYMY #4
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.