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Attack upgrade chart - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
June 06 2010 16:39 GMT
#41
With the armor upgrades? who is getting upgraded? the "Unit" being attacked by the "against" or the "against" being attacked by the "unit"
AeonStrife
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States918 Posts
June 06 2010 16:40 GMT
#42
This is great work. I know its something in progress, so I will put in my input/2 cents and what I found quite significant! I hope this helps because this is very useful and that you may do more stuff like this.

- I know this may be out of the ball park to include, but if you can include how many hits(with or without upgrades) it takes to take out Buildings with each race. This may be a different list on its own, but you can just include only for banelings/Ultralisk/Reapers, because of how these units have separate attacks that are only for buildings.

- I think someone already asked to add Static defenses against all units(with or without armor upgrades). This may be very useful to know how much each unit can take from each defensive building.

- Include infested Terrans? Perhaps list attacks to just workers may make sense.

- Frenzy? Corruption?

Like I said, these may all be out of the ball park suggestions to include, but if certain numbers can back up certain tactics and theorycrafting, you may help change the game as we know it now. Thanks and good luck man, you are doing the community a huge favor.

Also... Ultras(0upgrade) - Ghost = 7 hits, Tanks = 5 hits....LOL, lets hope Blizzard doesnt make a cinematic about this.
Whats worse...US Poltics or SC2 Balance Talks...
Genesis128
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway103 Posts
June 06 2010 16:53 GMT
#43
On June 06 2010 21:10 Melt wrote:
-In Muta Vs. Muta, the +armor upgrades are the most useful, because the Muta attack hits 3 times (9+3+1). So insetad of preventing 1 dmg, you prevent 3!

Does the muta attack upgrade only give bonus to the first glave and not the last two hits?
I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
Karma_
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada40 Posts
June 06 2010 17:05 GMT
#44
PrinceXizor: In the armor ones - "Against" gets the upgrade.
Pking
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden142 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-06 18:41:12
June 06 2010 18:34 GMT
#45
Nice. Very useful, even without the upgrades information, just seeing how many hits it takes vs different units is very revealing... e.g. Hellions takes 23 hits to take down a Roach but only 6 (4 with pre-igniter) against a hydralisk.. also suprising that it takes the same amount of hits to bring down a zealot as a stalker. Anyway, it gives you a good idea what the unit is effective against.
K_osss
Profile Joined June 2010
United States113 Posts
June 06 2010 19:24 GMT
#46
The only thing i think might be useful to include is the attack duration to kill a unit from a already charged void ray. Simply because they are easy to charge up on buildings before engaging the enemy force,
Nah
Profile Joined February 2010
Poland50 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-06 19:32:39
June 06 2010 19:25 GMT
#47
You should totally make UI to that program so it could fit most of needs posted here.
(UI that lets you customize some parameters like upgrades on victim, who and when does its first hit, sth like that.)
Protoss wins it all
Sandrosuperstar
Profile Joined November 2009
Sweden525 Posts
June 06 2010 19:30 GMT
#48
Totally awesome but the text version could use some tabbing
I'm homo for Lomo, gay for GGplay, but at the end of the day I put my dong in Lee Jaedong
lololol
Profile Joined February 2006
5198 Posts
June 06 2010 19:41 GMT
#49
On June 07 2010 01:53 Genesis128 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2010 21:10 Melt wrote:
-In Muta Vs. Muta, the +armor upgrades are the most useful, because the Muta attack hits 3 times (9+3+1). So insetad of preventing 1 dmg, you prevent 3!

Does the muta attack upgrade only give bonus to the first glave and not the last two hits?


It gives a bonus to all three hits, but the bonus is reduced just as the main attack, you get 1/3 and 1/9 damage on the second and third hits, while armor decreases all hits by 1.
I'll call Nada.
Genesis128
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway103 Posts
June 06 2010 19:49 GMT
#50
On June 07 2010 04:41 lololol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2010 01:53 Genesis128 wrote:
On June 06 2010 21:10 Melt wrote:
-In Muta Vs. Muta, the +armor upgrades are the most useful, because the Muta attack hits 3 times (9+3+1). So insetad of preventing 1 dmg, you prevent 3!

Does the muta attack upgrade only give bonus to the first glave and not the last two hits?


It gives a bonus to all three hits, but the bonus is reduced just as the main attack, you get 1/3 and 1/9 damage on the second and third hits, while armor decreases all hits by 1.

Does it really count fractional damage? Is this somewhere stored in the units and not shown so that three second-glance muta hits causes one extra damage. I guess at level three upgrade, the second hit will cause an extra full point of damage, but up untill that point, it is still helping somewhat? But yeah, point taken. The armour upgrade is a much better option.

On topic. I was very curious on what upgrade to get in a ZvZ where one person goes lings and the other roaches. I see that the roaches will go from 3shotting zerglings, to two-shotting them with one attack-upgrade, but I think that the armour upgrade would be vastly superior since the zerglings deal so low damage to begin with. My personal thoughts on upgrades is quite simple actually. If you will be doing most of the hitting (i.e. mass zerglings), then get the attack first. If you will be hit the most (thors), then get the armour first.
I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
lololol
Profile Joined February 2006
5198 Posts
June 06 2010 19:58 GMT
#51
On June 07 2010 00:09 Karma_ wrote:
Alright updated:

1. Reaper HP fixed, 40->50
2. Added Queen, workers
3. Added Zerg regen (0.2734 per second)
4. Fixed Ultra being treated as unarmored
5. Added Phoenix attacking ground
6. Consolidated Thor / Viking to 1 unit
7. Added freeze panes to the excel

RattyZ: The reference "sheet" is the source code. It does take into account all those things you mentioned.

Reza: Took a few hours. Most of the time was spent just gathering/inputting all the data. The code to run it is very short (about 150 lines or so)

Armor upgrades will come soon... Cost for Cost (which I'm very curious about!) will be fairly incorrect because it won't account for splash or micro or anything, plus you have to assume a certain "fighting" style (ie. I'm going to make it focus fire units). But I will take into consideration range (I have all the unit speeds and ranges so should be able to calculate that no problem).


There's errors with the regen. For example: I noticed that ghosts are shown as 2 shotting drones with no upgrades and +1 reapers 4 shotting hydras and 2 shotting drones. If you're using a formula to calculate it there's some strange error in it.
As a simple alternative you could just add 1 hp to zerg units in the calculations, since that's effectively how much they have in a typical engagement(i.e. army vs army with quick deaths and focus fire and not one on one, where they have more time to regen).
I'll call Nada.
lololol
Profile Joined February 2006
5198 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-06 20:19:07
June 06 2010 20:13 GMT
#52
On June 07 2010 04:49 Genesis128 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2010 04:41 lololol wrote:
On June 07 2010 01:53 Genesis128 wrote:
On June 06 2010 21:10 Melt wrote:
-In Muta Vs. Muta, the +armor upgrades are the most useful, because the Muta attack hits 3 times (9+3+1). So insetad of preventing 1 dmg, you prevent 3!

Does the muta attack upgrade only give bonus to the first glave and not the last two hits?


It gives a bonus to all three hits, but the bonus is reduced just as the main attack, you get 1/3 and 1/9 damage on the second and third hits, while armor decreases all hits by 1.

Does it really count fractional damage? Is this somewhere stored in the units and not shown so that three second-glance muta hits causes one extra damage. I guess at level three upgrade, the second hit will cause an extra full point of damage, but up untill that point, it is still helping somewhat? But yeah, point taken. The armour upgrade is a much better option.

On topic. I was very curious on what upgrade to get in a ZvZ where one person goes lings and the other roaches. I see that the roaches will go from 3shotting zerglings, to two-shotting them with one attack-upgrade, but I think that the armour upgrade would be vastly superior since the zerglings deal so low damage to begin with. My personal thoughts on upgrades is quite simple actually. If you will be doing most of the hitting (i.e. mass zerglings), then get the attack first. If you will be hit the most (thors), then get the armour first.


Yes, it does count fractional damage, the amount displayed is just rounded up. This was also the case in Brood War.

Edit: About the roach vs ling, the attack upgrade reduces the amount of hits needed to kill a zergling by 33.(3)%, while upgrading armor decreases the zergling damage by 25%, so the attack upgrade is more effective.
They were both equally effective when the roach had 2 base armor, but now the attack upgrade is clearly superior.
You would want to have enough attack upgrades to 2 hit lings and upgrade armor after that, so you need +1 roach attack against 0 zergling armor, and +2 against +1 or +2 and +3 against +3.
I'll call Nada.
Karma_
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada40 Posts
June 06 2010 21:36 GMT
#53
lololol: Good catch. I had it truncating non-integer HP (ie. if you had 0.1 hp, it considered it 0 hp) whereas SC does not.

Reuploaded with regen calc fixed.
Bob300
Profile Joined April 2010
United States505 Posts
June 06 2010 23:36 GMT
#54
Well this is the best chart I've seen, wonder if its all right lol. You sure you didn't make it up JK Really nice work.
NYC Suburbs --- College Freshman --- Season 1 - Drone Whiskey
Arco
Profile Joined September 2009
United States2090 Posts
June 14 2010 21:00 GMT
#55
Not sure why you don't have non-combat units on the receiving end of the chart, it would be useful to know how many Phoenix shots it takes to kill an Overseer/overlord, or how many viking shots to kill an observer, etc. Please add this in the future

Otherwise, much appreciated.
Iwbhs
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States195 Posts
June 14 2010 21:15 GMT
#56
line 1236 SCSandbox shouldn't you ceil the results... you do not want to round
Everyone loves Milano cookies.
Qw4z1
Profile Joined April 2008
Sweden55 Posts
June 14 2010 21:24 GMT
#57
Very impressive! This will really come to good use.
"All these new players are really thin skinned" - IdrA
Karma_
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada40 Posts
June 14 2010 21:43 GMT
#58
lwbhs: Yes you're right. The error shouldn't affect anything except Thor anti-air (since it's only thing with > 2 attacks) but I'll fix it up and repost
hyped
Profile Joined April 2010
United States135 Posts
June 14 2010 21:53 GMT
#59
right under Corruptor, Corruptor using Corruption would be awesome
Delarchon
Profile Joined April 2010
Finland132 Posts
June 14 2010 22:01 GMT
#60
Really nice chart must have took a while to make.

This got me trying out all kinds of things in that unit tester UMS and i actually found one thing that is kinda ridicilous.

Haven't noticed this in any games (not playing Z) but 1 baneling vs 1 baneling the one who sits still (on hold) and doesn't attack gets to live with 10 hp but and only the attacker dies.

You have on your chart that baneling vs baneling one shots it.

Weird enough but baneling is just biological not light so it makes only 20 dmg to it.
What kind of sorcery is this?
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