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Active: 1203 users

Why I Hate Battle.net 2.0

Forum Index > SC2 General
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im a roc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States745 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-24 02:03:09
May 23 2010 18:06 GMT
#1
[image loading]
Because people were complaining that this post lacks flashy pictures, I jacked this one from some other post here on TL.


EDITUUUUUU: Just to clarify, I'm not criticizing the system because of the recent bugs since patch 13 (buggy UI, crashes, lag), I'm saying that even from a conceptual standpoint the entire system has fallen short of what they promised and of what we expected. I have every expectation that these bugs will be fixed soon enough, surely by release. Please don't put words in my mouth.

A note to the assuredly frustrated mods: I see you put up a nice little green banner since I started writing this. Your request to stop posting about Bnet is, I believe, aimed toward people complaining about lag and disconnects etc. My post isn’t as much a complaint about those recent issues as it is to the overall conceptual shortcoming of the whole system. Crossing my fingers you wont lock this.

START HERE:

Since the launch of patch 13, I have come to realize just how much I hate Battle.net 2.0. I also realize that there have been many dozens of other posts regarding the exact topics that I’m going to bring up again in the next few paragraphs, and that most of you are sick and tired of hearing about it. Unfortunately for you, my distaste for the new Bnet overwhelms my liking for not having the entire first page of this forum covered with complaints about the new system.

I’m not completely sure what all of the rest of you have been experiencing since the patch, but I can effectively no longer play the game. I can’t start a ladder match without the game crashing, now user created custom games are disabled, and all of the Blizzard-made custom games just lag out until one of the players gets dropped. Frustrating to say the least. This has really brought me to question the viability of SC2 as a product by mid-summer, as well as the stability of the entire philosophy of modern day Activision Blizzard.


I was around seven when I first played StarCraft. It was the first game that I think I had ever played on a computer. I was enchanted immediately and played through the campaign using cheats rather liberally (I still remember that I bawled when Tassadar died). Later on in my life I was introduced to WC3, which, again, was an unbelievably high quality game to someone with little other gaming experience. I sucked at both games, as I still can’t beat an easy computer in WC3, but the art, lore, and gameplay grasped me and pulled me in. To my young mind it seemed like Blizzard could do no wrong. Blizzard was the perfect company that constantly produced revolutionary titles that set industry standards in every genre that they ventured into. While this would’ve been a fairly accurate statement at the time, the more recent developments with the new Bnet system would indicate that Blizzard is moving away from their throne from which they once looked down on all of the PC gaming industry.

Gaming has become less and less of a hardcore and competitive hobby as more and more companies sacrifice quality and difficulty to open their game up to a wider audience, thus earning the company more money. I had hoped that Blizzard would shy away from this fast growing trend, but their new Bnet system is pretty clearly driven toward earning their company more money by making it more appealing to the wider audience.

[image loading]
At least the Battle.net UI doesn't look this retarded anymore.


First off, the ELO system. This frustrates me for a few reasons. This system will always favor the people that have played more games, that is, owned the game the longest. There will always be point inflation because you earn usually three or four times as many points for a victory than you lose for a loss. This wouldn’t be as big as a problem if the favored system didn’t have such a massive impact on the dealing out of points. The favored tag is almost never accurate. At least 9 out of 10 times I start a game it says that my opponent is favored over me, but when I ask my opponent in game, surprisingly often (most of the time) they will say that they were shown me as being favored. I wouldn’t care that this system was so buggy and ambiguous if it didn’t make so much of a difference on your climbing of ranks. If you win against a favored opponent, bam, 20 points. Haven’t played for awhile? Bam, another 20. But you’re favored in a game that you won? Alright, here’s 3 points for you. A little too dramatic of a difference for such an inaccurate system.

Then there’s the division and league system. To be honest, I’m not fully opposed to this change. The league system works great for the people who want a competitive experience but are still awful players. Copper through gold (or now bronze through platinum) leagues I think should stay this way. It makes it an interesting experience to try to get to your division’s #1 spot even if there’s no way that you could be in the first 10,000 on a straight up ladder. In the platinum (now diamond) league, however, there is no reason to hide information like an overall rank from the players. They’re good enough to be able to be ranked among the best fifth of all of the players (if the separate league system is doing it’s job correctly; Blizzard has told us nothing about the way leagues are separated as far as I know, so I won’t go into that here.), so why should they not be able to see where exactly they fall in that upper echelon of competitive players. Absurd, to be honest.

As a side note, I fail to understand why Blizzard has insisted on naming all of the different divisions in each league. Since there is no way to browse through the different divisions in your league or in others, why assign them numbers or stupid names? Not a technical fault, but still a pointless frill of the system that just overcomplicates things. Again, unnecessary and absurd.

To make up for the shortcomings of the ranking and matchmaking system, Blizzard stuck in an achievement system. The first time I heard about this I was pissed. My anger has only grown exponentially since I realized that Blizzard hoped that people would be distracted by this and just be satisfied with the new Bnet now that you can earn “Achievement Points”. I think that this quote from a wonderful post from joolz can express my thoughts on Achievements better than I can myself:

On May 23 2010 22:21 joolz wrote:
There ARE unlocks and achievements but the overwhelming majority of them are incredibly easy to get. XBOX games actually give you an achievement for finishing the tutorial stage... then beating the first level... then beating the second level... and so on. You actually get achievements for doing things you can't avoid doing. And then these achievements get turned into points, and those points go on public display in your profile, and then you have a pissing contest to see who has the most points among your friends, and then you just keep paying your money to the companies who just keep making achievements easier and easier to get because god damn it you need those points, don't you?

Does that sound familiar? Achievement showcase, anyone? Put your 5 favorite achievements on display! Get a decal for spamming games played! Show off your achievement points because it's on display as a big ass font number next to your name when people look at your profile. TELL YOUR FREAKIN FACEBOOK FRIENDS YOU WON FIVE GAMES AS ZERG!!!


Well said.

As another little tidbit to address the expansion of achievements infiltrating the quality of games, I reference this slightly humorous, slightly frightening speech by Jesse Scheel.

Now, it is not only that the new Battle.net features that they tried to implement are all miserable failures, it is also that all of the things that made their old system successful they have decided to remove. Sounds like a bunch of truly intelligent people are hard at work to make our gaming experience better, doesn’t it? LAN support, clan systems, chat channels, gone. Three of the most important aspects of a successful online gaming service are just missing, and Blizzard has explicitly stated that they have no intention of putting them back in any recognizable format that we’re familiar with.

[image loading]
This just screams clutter. What exactly was so bad about chat channels?


Battle.net has delayed the game some three or four years now. It has done little but hinder the development team which is trying to slog through the mess that is Battle.net 2.0 to try to construct an entertaining, competitive game on top of a disfigured and fractured infrastructure. Dustin Browder has implied in a number of interviews that the development team and the Battle.net team are largely separate, and that he hopes that the quality of the work from one team should not reflect on the other.

I believe that the quality of StarCraft 2 as a game is unimpeachable. I won’t speak to balance right now, as the development team still has a few months before release, but they have created a genuinely interesting set of game mechanics along with widely varied and diverse races that interact in a way that can keep someone interested in the game for years. There are constantly new strategies popping up that can revolutionize the way a certain match-up must be played. The game is fun. The game is interesting. The game has every potential to become just as big a success as its predecessor, if not even more so, unless Battle.net 2.0 keeps dragging it down. Greg Canessa has single handily brought about all of the technical flaws that make people question the potential of the game being a successful product.

[image loading]
This is the enemy.


I’m disenchanted. The Blizzard that I knew in my childhood that was incapable of producing an inferior product no longer exists. Battle.net 2.0 has proven to be unsuccessful at every turn. I would be completely satisfied if they just rolled back the entire system to the technologies of the original Battle.net with an easily accessible global ladder, chat channels, clan systems, and a matchmaking system that certainly had fewer complaints than this new garbage we need to put up with. I’m enraged. I had higher expectations than they delivered for, and I don’t believe that they can fix the service before release. Truly a letdown.

Oh, and by the way: Facebook Integration.

Need I say more?
Beware The Proxy Pool Rush
ReachTheSky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3294 Posts
May 23 2010 18:09 GMT
#2
mods please relocate this to blogs as this really has no relevance in being in this section ;/
TL+ Member
jamesr12
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1549 Posts
May 23 2010 18:09 GMT
#3
wall of text... NEED PICTURES

no but really I agree but you just wasted a ton of time it has all been said before
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306479
skYfiVe
Profile Joined April 2010
United States382 Posts
May 23 2010 18:10 GMT
#4
There are two factions in this whole deal, Starcraft development team, and BNet 2 development team.

The Starcraft team themselves have made an amazing game up to date. For a game to be this balanced in beta is absolutely amazing, and you can't exactly wish for something as balanced as Starcraft 1. It will get better though, as more improves strats and tactics come about. BNet 2.0 is what is really putting the game down. Starcraft is basically the beta testing location of bnet 2. Really it just sucks that starcraft had to be the target for bnet 2 launch.
"1baseiwa"
Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany2959 Posts
May 23 2010 18:11 GMT
#5
TL;DR

Need I say more?

Yes, in order to not get banned I do.

Everyone knows that BNet2.0 has plenty issues right now and they're somewhat all being discussed already. And I guess even you have seen some of the threads.
If you think posting a incredible huge block of text which a big bag of bitching is good then this is why I hate you 2.0

User was temp banned for this post.
WrathBringerReturns said: No no no. Sarcasm is detected in the voice. When this forum is riddled with stupidity, you think I can tell every post apart? Fair enough it was intended sarcastically, was it obvious? Of course not.
Zaqwert
Profile Joined June 2008
United States411 Posts
May 23 2010 18:11 GMT
#6
SC2 has no future as a compettive game what so ever. Blizzard has gone out of their way to crush and exclude anyone who had any interest in organizing the game other than themselves (no LAN, region lock out, no chat, no simple friend system).

So we are left with Blizzard organizing things.... and what do they give us? A fake ladder, with almost meaningless leagues and fake rankings that are designed not to show a players skill but to dupe them into thinking they are good. The whole ladder and ranking system is a gigantic con.

Unless Blizz decides to radically change directions, SC2 has no future, and it's not even due to the game, but due to bnet 2.0.
jamesr12
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1549 Posts
May 23 2010 18:13 GMT
#7
TL;DR what does that mean?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306479
Meepman
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada610 Posts
May 23 2010 18:15 GMT
#8
On May 24 2010 03:13 jamesr12 wrote:
TL;DR what does that mean?


I always thought it meant "Too long, did not read."

Mr.Pyro
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Denmark959 Posts
May 23 2010 18:15 GMT
#9
I do believe Blizzard hired the guy who made Xbox live for Bnet 2.0? Yes?

In that case, i think that was a big mistake :p
P⊧[1]<a>[2]<a>[3]<a>tt | P ≝ 1.a.2.a.3.a.P
D10
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Brazil3409 Posts
May 23 2010 18:22 GMT
#10
I agree 100%

The Blizzard we knew that delivered is dead.
" We are not humans having spiritual experiences. - We are spirits having human experiences." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
besiger
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Croatia2452 Posts
May 23 2010 18:24 GMT
#11
means too long, didnt read, and it will get you baned around these here parts
A weak will coupled with delusions of grandeur
Tef
Profile Joined April 2008
Sweden443 Posts
May 23 2010 18:32 GMT
#12
Did you even read the TL staff message?

We get it - Bnet is having some problems. Please stop making threads about it.

TL is getting littered with these low quality (whine/hate/imbalance) posts nowadays. Maybe I am used to the old BW forum standard.
Dont fuck up, dont fuck yourself
im a roc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States745 Posts
May 23 2010 18:32 GMT
#13
I find it funny that my post immediatly turns into a discussion of the term tl;dr. :p
Beware The Proxy Pool Rush
im a roc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States745 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-23 18:37:41
May 23 2010 18:33 GMT
#14
On May 24 2010 03:32 Tef wrote:
Did you even read the TL staff message?

We get it - Bnet is having some problems. Please stop making threads about it.

TL is getting littered with these low quality (whine/hate/imbalance) posts nowadays. Maybe I am used to the old BW forum standard.

Which I addressed in the first paragraph. Did you not read it?

EDIT: Now given that someone got temp banned off of a comment in this thread and it's still not locked, I'm assuming that the mods decided to leave this one open.
Beware The Proxy Pool Rush
c.Deadly
Profile Joined March 2010
United States545 Posts
May 23 2010 18:49 GMT
#15
I agree with most of your criticisms, but the good news is that if the community provides good feedback, Blizzard can easily change these things.

I think the ELO system will grow on you once SC2 becomes more established, players hit their "peak" ELO and you can see a really accurate distribution of players' skill levels. We all want to see LAN, chat channels, clan support, league/ladder browsing, an overall ladder, etc. but it won't be long before we see those things - SC2 simply won't survive without them.

We got a "back" button, so bnet 2.0 is already headed in the right direction (I hope). The only thing that worries me is that the Blizzard team seemed oblivious to all of these things absent from bnet 2.0 that the community considers necessities. If they have no idea what we want as the players, how are they going to innovate beyond our expectations?

zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15358 Posts
May 23 2010 18:51 GMT
#16
On May 24 2010 03:15 Meepman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2010 03:13 jamesr12 wrote:
TL;DR what does that mean?


I always thought it meant "Too long, did not read."

Actually it means "I am a douche and don't want to post on this site for a week please".
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
TimeToPractice!
Profile Joined January 2010
United States105 Posts
May 23 2010 18:54 GMT
#17
It's been seriously only one day. Do you really think Blizzard intended to cause these issues? I sure hope you don't. Just let them fix it.

As far as your sour grapes toward all of the new systems (Ladder, facebook integration, ELO, achievements) - Would you prefer a game with no competitive architecture? (Ladder / ELO) And if you don't enjoy achievements or Facebook, just ignore it - you're not forced to participate in either of those.


I will say Battle.net has let me down somewhat compared to how hyped I was at BlizzCon 2009, but it's not anywhere close to how dramatic you're making it.
425-298 cumulative record in the beta. 49-26 record in retail. Account: Practice
Rodiel
Profile Joined August 2006
France573 Posts
May 23 2010 18:57 GMT
#18
[image loading]

User was temp banned for this post.
Leeoku
Profile Joined May 2010
1617 Posts
May 23 2010 18:58 GMT
#19
guys chill. this is why there is a beta for stuff like this
Dawme
Profile Joined May 2010
France58 Posts
May 23 2010 19:01 GMT
#20
Please stop with the "there is a beta for stuff like this" crap, it's WRONG. The beta as we know it ends in 7 days, what you're playing right now is the game that you will have in July, minus the drop stuff I hope. It has already been announced that we won't have chat channels, we won't have a good ladder, we won't have a real friends system, etc... this beta is here to make small adjustments be it technical or balance related and it's here ESPECIALLY to market and pre hype the game, like Blizzard does since a few games now. There won't be any revolutions between now and July.
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