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1. Zergs not going 3 queen against terran or protoss when they dont have the scout. Seriously 150 minerals and it prevents your opponent from getting a free win and theres pretty much no drawbacks from getting another one. Queens are good units for everything not just spawn larva.
2. Not enough ravens. Seriously this unit is INSANELY GOOD. Point defense drone is pretty much the dark swarm of SC 2. Ravens also supplement marauders VERY good and you dont even need the fusion core... HSM is just a bonus if you want to get that. Also i know there gas heavy, but seriously when you get your expo you should definitely get them.
3. Toss not opening up with void rays every game. Seriously they threaten so much and give you enough time to try some FE play and pretty much give toss control of the game. They also dont cost that much and you can easily tech switch out of them
4. Lack of burrow play from zerg. It cost so little and again threatens so much. Roaches and banelings burrowed on the mineral line can pretty much win you the game. Forces wasted money in the form of detection and gives you more map control.
5. Lack of ghosts against Zerg. Snipe is again insanely good (EVEN THOUGH THE SOUND IS ANNOYING AND THERES A FIRE CAP, plz fix blizzard). Ghosts are ridicolously good against hydras, mutas, and snipe limits infestor play, BROODLORDS and roaches. Again cheap tech switch that has a big affect on the game.
Hope you guys try to incorporate some of this in your play.
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I agree with four of those points. Strongly.
But... Opening with void rays every game ? If you're scouted, your void rays won't do a thing. Even against a zerg. Going 4 queen against void ray rush is quite common nowadays.
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i also agree with you
but
like maggeus said: void rays are easy counteresd by queens ore marines.
and
the sniper ability is pretty micro intensive, so most players just dont have the apm to do it!
but if you can use it correctly it definetly is strong!
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An early marauder/ghost combo TvZ is insane. And you can fool Z with early techlab on rax that your going reaper harrass.
Of course they would have problems defending aginst splings but you've scared the zerg to go with queens, roaches and spines early to protect against reaper rush since lings without speed wont do much harm to them.
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1. Sure
2.No
3.No NO no
4. Makes since to me
5. Slams head against desk
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One Void Ray against Zerg is handy. You can fly it around the map, killing Overlords or sniping his Creep Tumors if he tries to scout that way.
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3 and 5 are just retarded
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On May 16 2010 00:17 MattDamon wrote:
1. Sure
2.No
3.No NO no
4. Makes since to me
5. Slams head against desk
Care to elaborate?
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T need more tanks. Seriously.
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On May 16 2010 00:17 MattDamon wrote:
1. Sure
2.No
3.No NO no
4. Makes since to me
5. Slams head against desk
I "since" a ban coming.
Anywho, ghosts are incredibly good against zerg units. I don't know why we haven't seen MGM in play. Ghosts are better than mauraders in my opinion against any zerg units.
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I agree with all except voidray.. Its not hard at all to counter it.. Few marines or 2 queens..
Ghost could be terran dark templar and to snipe stuff in a battle.. and their attack isnt bad..
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If you want to snipe overlords around the map, just get a pheonix, much better. They are also insta-win against mutas. I am much more carefull where I place my overlords now.
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On May 16 2010 00:36 denzelz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2010 00:17 MattDamon wrote:
1. Sure
2.No
3.No NO no
4. Makes since to me
5. Slams head against desk I "since" a ban coming. Anywho, ghosts are incredibly good against zerg units. I don't know why we haven't seen MGM in play. Ghosts are better than mauraders in my opinion against any zerg units.
lol not true at all.
marauders hellions vikings are the best combo.
Thors wreck mutas
ghosts do garbage damage.
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I think you underestimate how much gas ravens and ghosts cost
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On May 16 2010 00:47 KaiserJohan wrote:
They are also insta-win against mutas. I am much more carefull where I place my overlords now.
Oh please, that was SO last week. If you still crying how to fight phoenix's with muta you should quit zerg now.
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On May 15 2010 23:55 OHtRUe wrote:
4. Lack of burrow play from zerg. It cost so little and again threatens so much. Roaches and banelings burrowed on the mineral line can pretty much win you the game. Forces wasted money in the form of detection and gives you more map control.
cost little? you risk losing half your army and losing the game outright if detected, and by the time you can even get burrow detection are pretty much everywhere
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On May 16 2010 00:50 Snowfield wrote:
I think you underestimate how much gas ravens and ghosts cost
There you go. Main reason why you don't see too much of Ghost or Ravens use. However they are awesome support units.
I always try to incorporate a Raven into my army. Ghosts I have used less of and would definitely try to incorporate them into a specific build.
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"Anywho, ghosts are incredibly good against zerg units. I don't know why we haven't seen MGM in play. Ghosts are better than mauraders in my opinion against any zerg units. "
WHAT
We have no anti armor unit, so hydra is our best bet and they are just even with rauders at best..
How the are ghosts better than rauders? They cost a shit ton and snipe is just mediocre
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1. If you're not scouting then you're not playing correctly....the only time i don't scout is when i go cheese I do agree however an extra Queen doesn't hurt, but it will change up well structured BOs (i.e. later roach den, 2 less roaches, or 3 less lings, 1 less spine crawler...etc...
2. Agreed but do current builds support that much gas usage?
3. Disagree and this point is in direct contradiction to your post. You're saying that we should see more of [x] in our game play. If everyone started with VR as Toss, then you wouldn't see any other variations. I know the effectiveness of VRs but starting with them all the time could spell disaster
4. Agree. I wished that Roaches just had burrow built in but that would be imba. to offset the possible imba of built in burrow I would make it so that when the roaches first burrow the healing rate will be slow but will speed up the longer they burrow. AND when they move and burrow the healing rate will not max out...
5. Pretty sure you're right about this but kinda contradicts your Raven statement. Do i use both? or just one one or the other?
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On May 15 2010 23:55 OHtRUe wrote:
1. Zergs not going 3 queen against terran or protoss when they dont have the scout. Seriously 150 minerals and it prevents your opponent from getting a free win and theres pretty much no drawbacks from getting another one. Queens are good units for everything not just spawn larva.
2. Not enough ravens. Seriously this unit is INSANELY GOOD. Point defense drone is pretty much the dark swarm of SC 2. Ravens also supplement marauders VERY good and you dont even need the fusion core... HSM is just a bonus if you want to get that. Also i know there gas heavy, but seriously when you get your expo you should definitely get them.
3. Toss not opening up with void rays every game. Seriously they threaten so much and give you enough time to try some FE play and pretty much give toss control of the game. They also dont cost that much and you can easily tech switch out of them
4. Lack of burrow play from zerg. It cost so little and again threatens so much. Roaches and banelings burrowed on the mineral line can pretty much win you the game. Forces wasted money in the form of detection and gives you more map control.
5. Lack of ghosts against Zerg. Snipe is again insanely good (EVEN THOUGH THE SOUND IS ANNOYING AND THERES A FIRE CAP, plz fix blizzard). Ghosts are ridicolously good against hydras, mutas, and snipe limits infestor play, BROODLORDS and roaches. Again cheap tech switch that has a big affect on the game.
Hope you guys try to incorporate some of this in your play.
Opening 2 gate voidray is deadly and SHOULD be used every game! Don't mass voidrays, that's dumb. Build one, maybe two along with your army and you will see how effective that can be, especially if Terran didn't build a viking, then use everything to target fire marines and melt the rest away/or use two voids to cause distraction in base and attack with main army. I think a lot of people in the thread are thinking you meant massing voidrays or something.
I think MGM has been done at pro level by... was it machine? Worked really well, until zerg masses roaches like an asshole and then you fall behind because you lack gas for raven/tank. But hey, the nerf might slow the roaches piling in and MGM might work these days. I'll try MGM out.
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EPT
